Mini 754 - Frogs Mafia Game, Set and Match.

[mikeburnfire]

In which you support a Gorrad or Izzy lynch over yourself. So my question was didn't you (in that post you just linked to) say you had a neutral reading on Gorrad? If so, why would you call for his lynch along with one of the players who you are sure is scum.

First of all, I would support a lynch of anybody over myself, as I have confirmation that I am town whereas I do not have it on anybody else. But what I'm TRYING to say there is that the town is split between killing Gorrad and Izzy, and that if we make no progress today, then the town will still be completely divided and at lynch-or-lose. Understand now?

First, tell my why you thought there couldn't be two pro-town ducks, and then tell me why you instead said that your reason for being suspiscious of Izzy's duckiness was because ducks eat frogs.

'Duck' is a suspicious claim. We already had a pro-town duck, which is a weird thing to have in a frog-town because ducks eat frogs in real life. Two of them seemed ridiculous to me.

Scot, I said back then and I still believe it to be true that CryW, who was getting close to being lynched, panicked and used her neighbor-partner as a scapegoat. Scum may not try to lynch somebody that they can influence, but they will keep their lynch open, which explains why she expressed suspicion of her partner, but never voted him. Once crywolf was replaced, Archon had already voted her, proving that he would not be easily influenced by the 'masonry', at which point Izzy voted him.

[scotmany12]

Scot, I said back then and I still believe it to be true that CryW, who was getting close to being lynched, panicked and used her neighbor-partner as a scapegoat. Scum may not try to lynch somebody that they can influence, but they will keep their lynch open, which explains why she expressed suspicion of her partner, but never voted him. Once crywolf was replaced, Archon had already voted her, proving that he would not be easily influenced by the 'masonry', at which point Izzy voted him.

I know. I didn't forget what you said, I just disagree with it.

[Gorrad]

Posting to say that I have read since my last post and am checking in while V/LA. I see no cause for comment; Scot's still tunnelvisioning, Izzy seems to be lurking, and I'm happy with my vote.

[Citizen Karne]

First, tell my why you thought there couldn't be two pro-town ducks, and then tell me why you instead said that your reason for being suspiscious of Izzy's duckiness was because ducks eat frogs.

'Duck' is a suspicious claim. We already had a pro-town duck, which is a weird thing to have in a frog-town because ducks eat frogs in real life. Two of them seemed ridiculous to me.

So are you saying now it

is

a fakeclaim by scum even though you were so adamant before that it couldn't be one?

[mikeburnfire]

No, I'm saying it's a legit claim by an anti-town duck pretending to be pro-town duck. I gave crywolf a temporary pass because pro-town duck seemed like an insane thing to claim.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Posting to say that I have read since my last post and am checking in while V/LA. I see no cause for comment; Scot's still tunnelvisioning, Izzy seems to be lurking, and I'm happy with my vote.

I'm not lurking, I just see no need to comment since we appear to have caught scum and we need a hammer.

[curiouskarmadog]

speaking of lurking...I am back..going to catch up on the game ASAP

[MacavityLock]

At this point, MBF is twisting himself in knots with regard to his reactions to flavor throughout this game. Someone please hammer.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm not lurking, I just see no need to comment since we appear to have caught scum and we need a hammer.

How convenient for you. You lynch your innocent neighbor-partner, tunnelvision Gorrad and myself, never give an opinion on anybody else, then lurk until another innocent is killed. You should have been killed a long time ago.

At this point, MBF is twisting himself in knots with regard to his reactions to flavor throughout this game. Someone please hammer.

Actually, I've perfectly explained all my reactions to flavor throughout the game and some people just can't accept it because they've already convinced themselves that I'm scum.

[Citizen Karne]

This is why I wait until the end to vote.

We seem to have stalled. People not voting MBF, care to weigh in? TSQ and Gorrad (and of course MBF), we already know about you guys; I'm mainly speaking to the others.

[scotmany12]

I'm not voting for MBF. He should not be the lynch today. If you all want to move to a more viable lynch candidate, ala Gorrad, then please don't hesitate to do so. Also, finals coming up, so yeah, limited access.

[Citizen Karne]

I'm not voting for MBF. He should not be the lynch today. If you all want to move to a more viable lynch candidate, ala Gorrad, then please don't hesitate to do so. Also, finals coming up, so yeah, limited access.

I'm fine with lynching Gorrad. However, I'm also fine with lynching MBF. He is closer. Why do you think MBF is town?

[scotmany12]

I'm actually not convinced that you are scum. I have liked very little of what you said, and you've done scummy things. However, my gut tells me to stay away from you, and everything you write seems sincere to me. So I don't know.

Seriously guys, fucking read the game.

[Shanba]

Vote Count:

5: mikeburnfire

(MacLock, ckd, dahill1, Citizen karne, Izzy)

2: Dizzyizzyb13

(Gorrad, TSQ)

2: scotmany

(Raging Rabbit, mbf)

1: Gorrad

(scotmany)
Not Voting:

none

Or in other words, unchanged as far as I can tell. I have a distinct feeling I'm going to need to prod some people -I'll do that later (probably tomorrow) when I'm just generally feeling more up to the task.

[mikeburnfire]

My vote moved to Izzy a while ago. We need Rabbit

now

, Shanba. He needs to be replaced or modkilled.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'm actually not convinced that you are scum. I have liked very little of what you said, and you've done scummy things. However, my gut tells me to stay away from you, and everything you write seems sincere to me. So I don't know.

Seriously guys, fucking read the game.

So... in summary, you aren't voting for him despite agrreing there's a solid case against him because of your gut and his appeal to emotion?

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok catching up, updating from about page 23..writing and opinion forming as reading.
CK does a PbP/case on MBF. I think Ck brings up good points in reference to MBF. I find it TSQ’s position quite interesting(589). Did you read CK’s post? He DID bring up points and give you the EXACT post of what he was commenting on. So instead of addressing the points made in the post he shoves it off with theory conversation….blahh..

I don't have the time nor energy to read a very potentially biased summary of every post MBF has ever made.

If you are so concerned that CK is slanting his case, why are you not cross referencing the post for accuracy? Why do you think that CK could be biased? Why ARENT you concerned with why CK might be biased?
.

Ugh, more conversation about game theory (how to do a PbP, by TSQ)..less talk about theory, more talk about this game. Hey TSQ, lets say for an instance that CK’s post was a case and not a PbP….what is your thoughts about his points? You seem to ignoring that post content to focus on theory bullshit….bottom line..he is town and thinks MBF is scum and this is why (his post) or he is scum throwing up a wall of words to jump on a wagon…I don’t give a shit if you personally don’t like PbP so quit smoking up the place and address the fire.
.

Gorrad(601) why do you think MBF is protown..would like reasons please…maybe throw in some posts that do it for you.
.

Citizen Karne, TSQ is right about your pbpa. It's unbelievably slanted against me. You went through all my posts, tried to find everything that could be construed as suspicious, and put it all together as evidence that I'm scum. It's tunnelvisioning, and it's not good. You're just doing what I've been doing. It's very hypocritical. Like so:

thats not what he did...what exactly is a case then?...going back and pulling posts that give you an impression of guilt....CK pulled all of your posts....so you are faulting him for being thorough?..bullshit.

I still think Izzy is the lynch for today, and I don't like how this MBF thing has developed, sort of out of left field.

left field huh? your resistance to give validity to the MBF case is noted. Where (and when) exactly did the case come from..interested on your view on this.

Yeah, once I forced you to. But you and TSQ, people who have once said that they thought I was town, almost let me die without saying a damn thing.

whoa where did TSQ say you are town...I must have missed that.

Ahh, TSQ addresses that in 614.

.
I appreciate MBF’s post (618)..except

something that I noticed is that almost ALL of you who suspect Gorrad think "I bet MBF's scum with Gorrad". Likewise for those of you who suspect Izzy. Wouldn't it be better to lynch one of them, rather than me? If I'm dead, then regardless of my alignment, you'll be trying to decide between killing Gorrad or Izzy, and if I'm a dead townie and another townie dies, then this decision could be the one that dictates whether or not the town wins. If I'm scum, you haven't made hardly any progress by killing me (because you're still split into factions). If I'm town, then not only are you undecided, but you've also put yourself in lynch-or-lose position tomorrow.

this is crap. I am on the fence on Gorrad and think Izzy might be town. After reading thoroughly, I am seeing a TSQ/MBF connection. When/if you flip scum, will speak volumes for TSQ lack of content/theory rants today.


Gorrad thinks MBF claimed vanilla…I read it has him being townie..not vanilla…MBF confirms this claim.

Just curious mike, what animal are you?

umm, pretty sure he claimed toad.

There was also something that ticked me off from CKD, but I don't remember. I'll have to look and see.

lol, ticked you off?

I am curious as to why you believe TSQ to be town. He was absent for a good portion of the game, and when he has been present he has been doing things like arguing why a pbpa is bad and asking everybody questions instead of giving his opinion on people (other than Izzy). Hell, getting his opinion about my bandwagon was like pulling teeth.

this is actually a good post....do I see a MBFscum making this comment about TSQscum at this point?....well, if he was trying to distance maybe....hmmmm

+++
I am still good with MBF being a lynch today…TSQ has risen on my suspicion list. I don’t know if he is just tunnel visioning on izzy or just ignoring the cases on MBF. Gorrad and RR being non players has bothered me..i have seen them both be more active…

Interested in hearing from both....

[scotmany12]

I'm actually not convinced that you are scum. I have liked very little of what you said, and you've done scummy things. However, my gut tells me to stay away from you, and everything you write seems sincere to me. So I don't know.

Seriously guys, fucking read the game.

So... in summary, you aren't voting for him despite agrreing there's a solid case against him because of your gut and his appeal to emotion?

I'm not voting for him because he's not the best lynch candidate. I'm sure that gorrad is scum, but not sure that mbf is.

[dahill1]

i would really like to hear from RR to see if this lynch will is going to happen or not

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'm actually not convinced that you are scum. I have liked very little of what you said, and you've done scummy things. However, my gut tells me to stay away from you, and everything you write seems sincere to me. So I don't know.

Seriously guys, fucking read the game.

So... in summary, you aren't voting for him despite agrreing there's a solid case against him because of your gut and his appeal to emotion?

I'm not voting for him because he's not the best lynch candidate. I'm sure that gorrad is scum, but not sure that mbf is.

Why are you so sure Gorrad is scum?

Do you think that MBF is more liekly to be scum than not be scum?

Would you be willing to hammer MBF if it became apparent that a Gorrad lynch isn't happening today?

[scotmany12]

I'm actually not convinced that you are scum. I have liked very little of what you said, and you've done scummy things. However, my gut tells me to stay away from you, and everything you write seems sincere to me. So I don't know.

Seriously guys, fucking read the game.

So... in summary, you aren't voting for him despite agrreing there's a solid case against him because of your gut and his appeal to emotion?

I'm not voting for him because he's not the best lynch candidate. I'm sure that gorrad is scum, but not sure that mbf is.

Why are you so sure Gorrad is scum?

Do you think that MBF is more liekly to be scum than not be scum?

Would you be willing to hammer MBF if it became apparent that a Gorrad lynch isn't happening today?

Gorrad is scum for all the reasons I have said previously. he does not have the town's best interest at heart, and now that I think of it, he has been accusing my of tunneling, when he is also tunneling on dizzy. At least I have been commenting on the whole MBF thing, Gorrad has been doing nothing.

As for MBF, if no one wants to switch to Gorrad, then I might hammer him. However, as of now, he is going to get lynched at deadline anyways. Right now, I think MBF is more likely to be scum than town, but I am sure that Gorrad is scum. I still have doubts with MBF.

[Citizen Karne]

I'm actually not convinced that you are scum. I have liked very little of what you said, and you've done scummy things. However, my gut tells me to stay away from you, and everything you write seems sincere to me. So I don't know.

Seriously guys, fucking read the game.

So... in summary, you aren't voting for him despite agrreing there's a solid case against him because of your gut and his appeal to emotion?

I'm not voting for him because he's not the best lynch candidate. I'm sure that gorrad is scum, but not sure that mbf is.

Why are you so sure Gorrad is scum?

Do you think that MBF is more liekly to be scum than not be scum?

Would you be willing to hammer MBF if it became apparent that a Gorrad lynch isn't happening today?

The second two are what I'm wondering. I don't see why if someone you think may be scum is on the chopping block but isn't your first choice, why wouldn't you want him to be lynched?

Of course, if your gut is strong enough to outweigh he evidence you've seen, well there's not much anyone can say, is there?

[curiouskarmadog]

well there is no need to hammer quite yet.....still want to hear from RR and gorrad today versus tomorrow..or at least why they dont have time to post.

[Gorrad]

Thought process:

It's six to lynch.

Scum could lynch MBF at any time with no questions asked.

They are not.

Therefore, either MBF is scum, or all the scum are on his wagon.

I'm pretty sure MBF is town.

Confirm Vote: DizzyIzzy

. I'd also dig a Karne lynch tomorrow.

[Thestatusquo]

CKD, that was idiotic.

My whole point was that CK didn't MAKE a case, and therefore can't access it as such. The potential points he makes, while conceivably valid and inherently INVALID, because I do not have the time NOR the energy to read every single post MBF has made, and then read what CK has to say about it to make sure it's true. How can you say "Why can't you just cross check them for accuracy?" When my ENTIRE ARGUMENT was that it is unreasonable for CK to expect me to do so. I asked him for a listing of points, with SOME referenced posts so I could determine how I feel about the case, but until he does that, in the middle of midterms, I am not capable of evaluating his position.

My attack was not just random game theory, but rather a justified reason as to why his case was not persuasive (nor was capable of BEING persuasive) to me. At the point where he wants to make a case which I can access rather than posting random filler shit that I cannot verify, given the time frame I have devoted to playing mafia, I will ignore it. (Ignore it being used in this sense to mean not use it to formulate my opinion on MBF, rather than ignore it i.e. not talk about it, which I clearly haven't done.)

My opinions on mbf have been pretty clearly elucidated. I see no reason to hang him over izzy, who I have posted a rather detailed attack on. Absent of a case on him which convinces me, I will stay on Izzy. This does not mean, as he claimed erroneously, that I think he is more likely to be town than scum. I don't. I just think he's about 50-50 and Izzy is MORE likely to be scum than town. In addition, it seems to me like a lot of people have pounced on MBF and displayed quite a bit of tunnel vision, with very little provocation, which I find disconcerting. What is it about this position that causes me to "rise in your suspicions?"