Mini 775 - Hammersmouth Is Under Attack! (Game over)


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Post Post #225 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:52 pm

Post by Wulfy »

kabenon007 wrote:Ok, I didn't get that that was what you wanted. I thought you were going along the more Wulfy line of, "I don't see your valuable information, please quote all of it for me." I can do what you ask, although there isn't much, because as I am pretty sure I said, most of the information gathered Day 1 becomes useful Day 2 once one or more corpses have been identified and roles disclosed.

When I jumped on your wagon, the biggest thing I was looking for: people who would jump on my wagon after someone else got the ball rolling on me.

That reason is the reason I suspected Pablo, _over9000, and kirroha. Wulfy got the wagon going, and though I hated his playstyle, it wasn't the kind of reaction I was looking for and therefore didn't pursue. Pablo then voted for me, followed by kirroha, followed by _over9000. I bantered back and forth with Pablo and over9000 and liked what I got out our discussions, found them to be more town than kirroha, especially because she first jumped on Percy first, after I made my "Diescumdie" post, before jumping to me. If she were so suspicious of that, as she claims in her attacks on me when she votes, why did she vote Percy first, and then only once it became "acceptable" to jump on my wagon did she make her attack against me?

And the whole "Diescumdie" thing? I just like saying it, it makes the post seem heavier, and therefore it would (hopefully) garner more reactions. "Go wagon go" is also a favorite of mine. I knew it was a risky plan going into it, but it does do so much for the town. Look at all the discussion that's come out of it.
Now you make a decent defense. *Rolls eyes* You couldn't just defelct me temporarily to keep momentum and argue your case (You did) and reveal it once you thought you caught scum? If this was a gambit, it wasn't very good or strong.
semioldguy wrote:I don't think kirroha (or her replacement) should shoot herself.
I disagree, except under light of a potential mafia doctor. Due to that possibility (and strictly that possibility), I think shooting herself is a bad idea.

@Sotty: You have a point against farkin. After I gain a chance to reread him, I may switch my vote since the gambler actually made sense in his last post (to someone else, not necessarily farkin. But I do think that his deflection with a loaded question accusation was false).

Side note: I know that IAAUN vote weird. If it wasn't the reactions wouldn't have been helpful, now would it? Also, I will never pressure vote anyone beyond L-4 unless there is a legitimate case and I want a claim. As for reactions: I mix this kind of vote in with serious and randomly admit it to be a reaction depending on if I think it is relevant information.

@_Over9000: I really don't like you. You seem awfully scummy to me at the moment. And I know you have "reasons," but we are playing a game where the bad guys lie.

I like CJMiller less and less. <---Side Note.

Kirr <---Shouldn't be lynched. Mafia will definitely take care of the Vig/SK because both are very dangerous to them. Therefore, I feel no reason to worry about Kirr yet. Still, more thought on this is needed before we dedicate ourselves to any particular move.
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Post Post #226 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:52 pm

Post by Percy »

@kabenon007: So your plan was to start a wagon on yourself by doing something scummy, to see who would vote for you and why... Is this correct?
CJMiller 222 wrote:We are not amused.
You're at L-1. You maintain that you're there because you don't have the time to do anything but participate in a scummy and anti-town way. Why are you not asking for a replacement? If you're town, then getting someone who can actually play to take over your position is the best thing you can do right now. Either that, or start playing properly. We are not amused? Are you the goddamned Queen?
Artem 223 wrote:The replacement should tell us the number of shots.
Yes.

As for the "let kirroha live and see what happens" plan, I'll give the situation more thought and see if I can come up with a more foolproof plan.
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Post Post #227 (ISO) » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:36 pm

Post by Tarballs »

_over9000 wrote:
vote: kirroha
You forgot to unvote first.

8th Vote Count of Day 1

5 - kirroha
(semioldguy, kabenon007, CJMiller, Sotty7, iamausername)
5 - CJMiller
(Percy, Farkshinsoup, Pablo Molinero, _over9000, kirroha)
1 - kabenon007
(Wulfy)

1- Not voting
(Artem)


With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline: May 12th, 2009
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Post Post #228 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:26 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

Percy wrote:
Farkshinsoup 99 wrote:One way or the other, it seems like your posts contain a lot of flavour, not much content. You vociferously attack the easy target (kabenon) and come to the defense of someone else for poor reasons. Seems scummy to me.

...

If you're going to start throwing ad hominem attacks at other players, you might want to get your facts straight first. Better yet, just drop the insults all together.
Hmmm.... this smells a wierd to me. Wulfy didn't use insults in place of arguments, he used them as well; thus, it's not a fallacy, just hilarious. But I can understand not liking Wulfy's posting style, so I'll just leave this here for now.
For the record, this is what I said in post 99, represented above by this "..." :
Farkshinsoup wrote:Also,
Wulfy wrote:@artem:
...
*growls angrily*
I don't care if its cute now...
*kills the fucking cat*
You're a complete idiot.
You do realize this game is open
thus making you far more valuable to just shut the hell up and say nothing?
Mod, post 1 wrote: 2.
Semi-open setup
. All the possible roles are listed in the next post.
If you're going to start throwing ad hominem attacks at other players, you might want to get your facts straight first. Better yet, just drop the insults all together.
Bold parts are mine. Percy, does that clear that up?
Sotty7 wrote:I wanted to know why you liked CJ's wagon at this point because you hadn't explained why you found him scummy in any kind of detail. Your vote seemed to be just pressure. Is that still the case?
Yeah my vote at the time of that post was pressure, but now it's not. I think that CJ is still the best candidate today. He won't or can't scum hunt, he won't or can't defend himself, he's claimed vanilla townie, which is a good safe scum claim. I'm good with his lynch.
Sotty7 wrote: I don't like fence sitting because it allows you to quickly and easily modify your suspicions as the towns opinion changes.
Fair enough, but I'm not going to manufacture a hard opinion on someone just to appear more townie. I'm honestly laying out my thinking process - you'll be able to see in later days whether it's BS or not.

I don't totally believe Kirr's claim (fence sitting alert!), but I don't have a great deal of experience playing with Vigs, so I'm unsure of the best course of action. I agree with Artem, we need to know how many bullets she has. She could be fake claiming a particular vig role - the more info she puts out, the more likely we'll be able to test her claim, either today, or tomorrow.

Since I'm good with a CJ Miller lynch anyways, I guess I'd vote for leaving her alive at least overnight, and seeing what tomorrow brings.
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Post Post #229 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:43 am

Post by semioldguy »

kirroha has asked for replacement due to vacation/parents/time issues saying that she won't be able to post. She is in at least two other games currently with no mention of her vacation and no replacement requests there. She has even posted in one of those games within the last six hours and at multiple different times of day over the past three days and it appears that she intends on being active there.

I am going to go with "Lynch all Liars" and say we should get rid of her today.
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Post Post #230 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:34 am

Post by Pablo Molinero »

Alright, homework/exam pain over for now, mafia can continue. Here’s my catch-up post from (more or less) when I left, so if I say anything irrelevant to the current discussion, I apologize.


Over9000
Wulfy, why are all of your votes on people nobody else is voting for?
Why is this relevant? Why should it matter that he’s thinking for himself?

kabe
Whether or not you think they are "good" the fact is that I made them, they count as scumhunting…

you say "They don't count because they aren't good." Which is bologna. Scumhunting is scumhunting
I think this is false. (Although I think your scumhunting has been good enough.) The principle of scumhunting is getting useful information. If you’re just looking busy and not saying a whole lot, well, you’re pretty high on the scumdar.

Percy
I understand that it's hard to go after lurkers. It's a lot easier to go after the talkative players - that's why lurking is a great scum strategy.
Bingo.
I say we let her live tonight. If she's scum, she'll get vigged*. If she's not, someone else will die, and we'll have verified her claim. If a scum gets shot, hooray! If town gets shot and there is no other kill, we lynch kirroha tomorrow as scum. If two town get shot, then kirroha will have to state her reasoning behind her kill exceptionally well tomorrow to avoid a lynch.
I agree with this. If she’s town, we shouldn’t be doing the mafia’s job for them with a power role, and if she (her replacement) is alive tomorrow, then she’s been pretty much disproven and deadscumwalking. Oh, and could a SK be a possibility? *barring something wacky.

I think the case against kabe because his earlier vote-motivations was kinda crap. He explained himself well, and I have nothing against fishing for reactions and he got some good results. It seems that any sort of persistence on kabe on this point would be hardheaded and worthless.

CJ
I AM TOWN.
Great. That was helpful. See how my vote stays on you? Effort, plz. Fark explained it fairly well.

Percy
You're at L-1. You maintain that you're there because you don't have the time to do anything but participate in a scummy and anti-town way.
L-2, but I'm all for putting more pressure on CJ.

Look out, semioldguy. I’ve seen that whole “ongoing games” rule bite the town in the ass before.
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Post Post #231 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:54 am

Post by semioldguy »

I PM'ed the mod to ask if it was okay to post that in the thread. He said it was okay.
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Post Post #232 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:04 am

Post by CJMiller »

Since everyone here would rather I be a spineless flake then try to play a full game of Mafia, I need a replacement.
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Post Post #233 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:35 am

Post by Artem »

Wulfy wrote: Side note: I know that IAAUN vote weird. If it wasn't the reactions wouldn't have been helpful, now would it? Also, I will never pressure vote anyone beyond L-4 unless there is a legitimate case and I want a claim. As for reactions: I mix this kind of vote in with serious and randomly admit it to be a reaction depending on if I think it is relevant information.
What is it with all the "I did it for reactions" nonsense? Doing random crap just for the heck of it is not useful, especially if you don't know what to derive from the reactions you get. If you're town betting on the fact that somebody is going to do something scummy (but you don't have the slightest idea what), doing some random stuff and not getting the scummy reactions you expected, then the only thing you're going to do is appear scummy and distract the town from scum-hunting by making them focus on you - a townie.
FoS: Wulfy
for anti-town play.
semioldguy wrote: kirroha has asked for replacement due to vacation/parents/time issues saying that she won't be able to post. She is in at least two other games currently with no mention of her vacation and no replacement requests there. She has even posted in one of those games within the last six hours and at multiple different times of day over the past three days and it appears that she intends on being active there.
Confirmed. There's a handful of posts from today.

------------------------------------------

Game theory about Kirr:

First things first. Wulfy is right: a scummy vigilante shooting self is the correct play. Unfortunately, vigs in this game are not allowed to commit suicide.

I think there are either 2 or 3 (more likely) scum in the game.
If there are 2 scum in the game, we get 4 attempts at a successful lynch (Day 1 - with 12, Day 2 - with 10, Day 3 - with 8, Day 4 - soft LyLo with 6) assuming 1 NK/night.
If there are 3 scum in the game, we get 3 attempts at a successful lynch (Day 1 - with 12, Day 2 - with 10, Day 3 - soft LyLo with 8).

Because we have an even number of players, we have the leisure of losing two townies in one night or get a 'free' night phase by choosing a no-lynch at some point.

That means that leaving Kirr alive and asking her (or replacement) to shoot somebody (i.e., Percy's idea) is the best play. At worst we use up our "freebie" of losing an extra townie during the night phase. The advantage is that we will know for sure that Kirr is
not
a mafia if there are two kills. The two issues that we have to deal with are Kirr being an SK and/or getting role-blocked.

Two night-kills will tell us for sure that Kirr is not mafia. The correct play for the mafia is to NK Kirr at some point in the game to prevent a confirmed non-scum from reaching the endgame. That takes care of the SK issue.

If Kirr gets role-blocked, it means that I will get a list of people targeting me (I highly doubt there are two mafia RBers). In this case, we can simply lynch Kirr tomorrow. We will not have lost any additional townies and we gain information from my "investigation".

The absolute worst that can happen is me getting NKd and Kirr getting role-blocked. But even in that case, you're only delaying Kirr's lynch by one day and when/if she flips town (vig), you will have a pretty good idea of the mafia setup by Day 3 (especially if there was a watcher on me on Night 1).

Another advantage with leaving Kirr alive is that after her replacement claims the number of bullets, there's a way of dealing with a fake-claim. If Kirr is mafia and claims a 1-vig, the real 1-vig (assuming there is one) can shoot her during the night, preventing us from wasting one of our lynch attempts.
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Post Post #234 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:44 am

Post by Artem »

themod wrote: You are a Serial Killer. Each night you may attempt to kill another player. You cannot target yourself. You will appear innocent to Cop investigations and you have immunity for nightkills
Ok, scratch the paragraph above about the mafia NKing the SK.
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Post Post #235 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:46 am

Post by Artem »

Although, mafia targeting Kirr-SK and not getting a night kill would be a pretty good indication of Kirr being the SK. :P
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Post Post #236 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:00 pm

Post by Wulfy »

semioldguy wrote:kirroha has asked for replacement due to vacation/parents/time issues saying that she won't be able to post. She is in at least two other games currently with no mention of her vacation and no replacement requests there. She has even posted in one of those games within the last six hours and at multiple different times of day over the past three days and it appears that she intends on being active there.

I am going to go with "Lynch all Liars" and say we should get rid of her today.
You win the day.

Unvote; Vote Kirr
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Post Post #237 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:07 pm

Post by _over9000 »

wulfy wrote: semioldguy wrote:
kirroha has asked for replacement due to vacation/parents/time issues saying that she won't be able to post. She is in at least two other games currently with no mention of her vacation and no replacement requests there. She has even posted in one of those games within the last six hours and at multiple different times of day over the past three days and it appears that she intends on being active there.

I am going to go with "Lynch all Liars" and say we should get rid of her today.


You win the day.

Unvote; Vote Kirr
This.

I'm pretty sure that we've gotten enough information out of this day. Everyone is pretty set on who they suspect. And it's pretty clear that kirr is near the top of enough people's lists to do this.

No replacement could possibly answer for everything she's done.

Let's go to bed.

unvote
vote: kirroha
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Post Post #238 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:57 pm

Post by Percy »

Unvote
Vote: _over9000

ENTIRE HAND OF SUSPICION: _over9000


No replacement could answer for everything she's done? Are you kidding?

You may have just cost the town their vigilante. And you waited.... a full 7 minutes after Wulfy's post to hammer! And just after Artem is discussing optimal town strategy to deal with this situation as well.

That is the scummiest quickhammer I've seen in a very long time.
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Post Post #239 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:58 pm

Post by CJMiller »

Mod: cancel replacement. I would rather finish a game, since that makes me more experienced at Mafia than flaking out.
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Post Post #240 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:28 pm

Post by Pablo Molinero »

Legit question: Does that end the day? or do unvotes before the deathscene go through?
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Post Post #241 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:25 pm

Post by CJMiller »

It depends on when the mod reads the new posts.
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Post Post #242 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:35 pm

Post by Wulfy »

Technically, a hammer ends day even if an unvote happens after hammer. So, we're technically in twilight now and the "day" is over.
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Post Post #243 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:03 pm

Post by semioldguy »

Percy's vote wasn't on kirroha anyway.
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Post Post #244 (ISO) » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:43 pm

Post by Tarballs »

9th And Final Vote Count of Day 1

7 - kirroha
(semioldguy, kabenon007, CJMiller, Sotty7, iamausername, Wulfy, _over9000)
4 - CJMiller
(Percy, Farkshinsoup, Pablo Molinero, kirroha)

1 - Not voting
(Artem)


kirroha has been lynched. After searching her lifeless body, you find a gun. Is it possible that she actually was a vigilante?

After closer examinations, you find documents that link her to the criminals.

kirroha was a member of the mafia! Hooray!



kirroha,
Mafia Godfather
, has been lynched Day 1.



It is now Night 1. If you have a night action, send it to me via PM before the deadline, or you will not act this night.
Night 1 will end April 25th at 11 PM (GMT).



Note:
Several players have broken rule 13, but I'll let it slip through this time. Consider it a semi-warning. :wink:
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Post Post #245 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:06 am

Post by Tarballs »

Everyone is sleeping tight, when a loud gunshot wakes everyone up.

You jump out of the bed, rush out of your apartment and run towards the source of the noise, which appears to be semioldguy's house.

Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to save him, as he has already bleeded to death from a single gunshot wound to the chest.



semioldguy,
Vanilla Townie
, has been shot Night 1.



It is now Day 2. With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Deadline for this day is May 22nd.
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Post Post #246 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:17 am

Post by semioldguy »

"Bah!" Go Town!!!
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Post Post #247 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:59 pm

Post by Artem »

I got no list which means that either nobody targeted me or I was role-blocked.

If there is a watcher that watched me last night, you now know the name of the role-blocker.
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Post Post #248 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:18 pm

Post by CJMiller »

Vote: Artem
for not voting on Day 1.
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Post Post #249 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:12 pm

Post by iamausername »

CJMiller wrote:
Vote: Artem
for not voting on Day 1.
Artem wrote:
Vote: iamausername
for trying to abstract the content of this game.
and, a lot more significantly:
Artem wrote:Like I said earlier, the quote I gave was not your response to somebody "picking thing up and throwing them back at you". It was not a clarification of your actions that somebody thought were scummy. It was an unprecedented statement explaining that what you are about to do is pro-town. I also believe that it was before everybody started pointing out that you're trying too hard to be pro-town. Your unwillingness to understand this point is just mind-boggling.

Vote: Kirr
I guess you mean that he wasn't voting at the
end
of day 1. Why is that scummy, exactly?

Still, that's an improvement, CJ. Keep it up, and one day, you'll be a real boy.
Artem wrote:If there is a watcher that watched me last night, you now know the name of the role-blocker.
And if there is, it's probably worth coming out with it, since they're probably scum. There's no reason for a pro-town roleblocker to have targeted Artem, as far as I can see. I guess a jailkeeper might think about protecting him and block him as a side effect, but if it was me, I'd want to avoid messing up his results.


Seems pretty likely that there were scum pushing for a CJ lynch instead of kirroha yesterday, and Percy was pushing that the most, as I recall, so:

Vote: Percy

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