Newbie 769 - Game Over

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Replacing Slaine for failure to pick up a prod.

Official Vote Count

Tenchi - 2 (Hero764, Toledo88)

Hero764 - 1 (Tenchi)

Not Voting - 4 (Hockeyruler, Feeres, kikuchiyo, SerialClergyman)

4 to Lynch

[Toledo25]

Sorry about my scarce posting... again. My brother keeps on on playing a MMORPG on the only computer I have access to. Today, he was on from 7:00 Am to 11:30 Am straight, and I expect him to be on again later today.

I doubt that. You said it in post 125:

This does no help. And I honestly do not know how to proceed.

I'm looking for some help from our IC Very Happy

Is it okay to vote for CJ simply because I feel he isn't being helpful? I highly doubt hes mafia. He seems more... "Extremely newbish" and yet not voting for someone because of this seems like it would make it a very easy way for the mafia to "go about business".

Actually, post 125 looked like:

Unvote (for the last time)
Vote Feeres because I don't believe his FoSing me was random

Hockeyruler said the above at 133, not 125. I guess

someone

isn't being very attentive.

ATTN TOWNIES: I think it should be pretty obvious by now that at least one of these two is scum. I really want your thoughts on this.

Hero: Do you yourself believe that both or only one of them is scum? I think that at this point it's more likely that Tenchi is scum, but about 75% of Day 2 posts have involved him. You are also a bit too focused on both of them, and you didn't even make a comment about the most noticeable part of post 185:

I'm beginning to wonder if you (being Hero) are a cop, and you investigated Tenchi and got negative. But the odds of there being a cop and you being it are slim, and I think at this point it's more of a rivalry between you and Tenchi.

I'm a little surprised that you didn't question me about that, or even say something about me fishing.

I agree that both players are suspect, but you haven't addressed my last post. Why are we focusing on these two and not Toledo? I believe Toledo posted what looked like a role fishing post earlier, and was on the wagon yesterday at L-2, which according to your logic, should be just as suspicious as an L-1 vote, no?

Regarding the fishing, I wasn't asking the cop to come forward and announce him/herself. I was, however, trying to show that Hero could best be justified in his assault on Tenchi if he knew, without a doubt, that Tenchi was scum, which could only happen if he was a cop.

And by "your", you mean who?

[kikuchiyo]

"Your" refers to Hero's logic when he stated:

What does the time have to do with anything?

When you put someone at L-1, you are saying that it is ok for someone to come in and hammer them

.

I guess I am talking about

my interpretation

of his logic. I disagree with the bolded statement and think it sets up a logical fallacy. I think Hockey's vote was suspicious, but the above statement is simply not true.

[Hero764]

What do you mean "at least one of these two"? Are you implying that they are not scum together?

Well I was taking into account the possibility that Toledo could be scum(as I have discussed before). Feeres, you, and whoever Slaine's replacement is aren't totally in the clear either. To clarify: I'm about 100% sure at least one of them is scum, while its only probable that they are scum together.

Hockeyruler said the above at 133, not 125. I guess someone isn't being very attentive. Rolling Eyes

Wow, I suck. I could've sworn that I read 125 as the post number. Anyways, yeah I meant 133 hockey. Thanks.

I agree that both players are suspect, but you haven't addressed my last post. Why are we focusing on these two and not Toledo? I believe Toledo posted what looked like a role fishing post earlier, and was on the wagon yesterday at L-2, which according to your logic, should be just as suspicious as an L-1 vote, no?

By my logic? Uh, here let me explain:

When you put someone at L-1, you are acknowledging that anyone can hammer them, and you can't unvote after that. In essence, you are saying it is ok for them to be lynched. When you put someone at L-2(or 3,4, etc.) all you are saying is that you find the person scummy. Sure, there could be 2 extra votes piled on(as is what happened) before you can unvote, but in general putting someone at L-2 allows you to unvote if you don't want them lynched yet. When you put someone at L-1 without wanting them lynched soon you are being a bad player.

I'm a little surprised that you didn't question me about that, or even say something about me fishing.

Tenchi did it for me. I did note that you did it though, and I do find you suspicious.

[Tenchi]

Post 192 links to a similar question, because I don't know what you are saying.

And your answer to that does not show that I misquoted anything. I read it and feel that I have quoted the right stuff properly. Post 195, you provided me an example where I misquoted something. Nothing was misquoted there.

Uhm, if you quoted the right stuff, then why did you write that post "in the context of my day 1 post?"

Because that was the context of it. You removed the quote I referenced when you quoted it again.

Read this again.
[/quote]

Also, I was responding to a D1 post on Post 151. Explanation here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 33#1614533

I know...I never said otherwise.[/quote]

Nope. You have been ignoring this part of our conversation and accusing me of misquoting stuff or reacting to unnecessary things. I need you to read those things because you have taken them out of context.

ATTN TOWNIES: I think it should be pretty obvious by now that at least one of these two is scum. I really want your thoughts on this.

I have some problems with this.

1. I don't think Hockey is likely scum. Well I think he's 40% scum, maybe less.
2. You are setting both of us for a back to back lynch. When/Even if I flip town, I feel you'd set him up for the next lynch, which will cost us the game.
3. In the situation of the quicklynch, I don't think Hockey is scum. He couldn't have expected me to hammer. (If you have a case against him that accuses him of quicklynching CJMiller, then I say you shouldn't do that.)

Please do not set Hockey for a back to back lynch with the CJMiller thing as base on his case.

[Tenchi]

Regarding the fishing, I wasn't asking the cop to come forward and announce him/herself. I was, however, trying to show that Hero could best be justified in his assault on Tenchi if he knew, without a doubt, that Tenchi was scum, which could only happen if he was a cop.

You are fishing for reactions.

If you are scum you are 100% sure I am not working with you. Therefore, all that achieves is some possibility that Hero would slip in case he answers the question "wrong" and he is the cop. Also, you are implying there that the only way that Hero's aggression on me would be justified is if he was the cop. You are essentially asking him to claim to validate his witchhunt.

If you are town, your note achieves nothing for us.

[Tenchi]

I agree that both players are suspect, but you haven't addressed my last post. Why are we focusing on these two and not Toledo? I believe Toledo posted what looked like a role fishing post earlier, and was on the wagon yesterday at L-2, which according to your logic, should be just as suspicious as an L-1 vote, no?

By my logic? Uh, here let me explain:

When you put someone at L-1, you are acknowledging that anyone can hammer them, and you can't unvote after that. In essence, you are saying it is ok for them to be lynched. When you put someone at L-2(or 3,4, etc.) all you are saying is that you find the person scummy. Sure, there could be 2 extra votes piled on(as is what happened) before you can unvote, but in general putting someone at L-2 allows you to unvote if you don't want them lynched yet. When you put someone at L-1 without wanting them lynched soon you are being a bad player.

Nono. It was how I interpreted it and look where it got us. It is totally wrong. Also, if that was the case, the person who placed him at L-3 should be at fault (which goes into a very bad succession).

(When I lost my head) I thought that it was OK to lynch CJMIller because Hockey validates the lynch by putting him at L-1. So I hammer, and now get in trouble. It was MY mistake, not his.

I forgot who said this recently (I forgot),

but an L-1 actually denotes a more careful investigation of the person

, not a validation to hammer. An L-1 pushes pressure onto the player which elicits reactions from both him and his possible scum partner.

[Hero764]

Post 192 links to a similar question, because I don't know what you are saying.

And your answer to that does not show that I misquoted anything. I read it and feel that I have quoted the right stuff properly. Post 195, you provided me an example where I misquoted something. Nothing was misquoted there.

Uhm, if you quoted the right stuff, then why did you write that post "in the context of my day 1 post?"

Because that was the context of it. You removed the quote I referenced when you quoted it again.

Uhm, no. Read my post again. I made it painstakingly clear that I was directly talking about your D2 post, IN WHICH YOU CLAIMED THAT LYNCHING CJMILLER WAS A GOOD MOVE. Seriously, this isn't that hard to understand.

Also, I was responding to a D1 post on Post 151. Explanation here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 33#1614533

I know...I never said otherwise.

Nope. You have been ignoring this part of our conversation and accusing me of misquoting stuff or reacting to unnecessary things. I need you to read those things because you have taken them out of context.
[/quote]
I've already explained this to you about a million times now, and it was obvious in the first place what I was referring to. So no, I'm not wrong in ANY of this.

ATTN TOWNIES: I think it should be pretty obvious by now that at least one of these two is scum. I really want your thoughts on this.

I have some problems with this.

1. I don't think Hockey is likely scum. Well I think he's 40% scum, maybe less.
2. You are setting both of us for a back to back lynch. When/Even if I flip town, I feel you'd set him up for the next lynch, which will cost us the game.
3. In the situation of the quicklynch, I don't think Hockey is scum. He couldn't have expected me to hammer. (If you have a case against him that accuses him of quicklynching CJMiller, then I say you shouldn't do that.)

Please do not set Hockey for a back to back lynch with the CJMiller thing as base on his case.

1. Of course you don't.
2. You seem so certain that he's not scum. The only way you could know that for certain is if you were scum yourself. Oops.
3. This isn't what my case is about.

(When I lost my head) I thought that it was OK to lynch CJMIller because Hockey validates the lynch by putting him at L-1. So I hammer, and now get in trouble. It was MY mistake, not his.

Hockey did say he wanted CJMiller lynched. But his opinion isn't the only one you should follow.

I forgot who said this recently (I forgot), but an L-1 actually denotes a more careful investigation of the person, not a validation to hammer. An L-1 pushes pressure onto the player which elicits reactions from both him and his possible scum partner.

Yeah but I'm pretty sure Hockey never stated he wanted to pressure CJMiller(which he would've brought by this point in day 2, don't you agree?), and instead he wanted him just plain gone.

My suspicious of you have not been weakened, and if anything have been reinforced.

[kikuchiyo]

At this time I have to say that I am okay with a Tenchi lynch. I have suspicions of others, however, nothing stands out as much as the ill timed hammer and subsequent reasoning. I would like time for our replacement to catch up and post some thoughts. Also, I have read about "hyper-claiming", where we all post investigation results as though we are cop. That way, in case the cop dies tonight(if we have one) then we can look back and find their investigation results.

Investigation results for hyper-claim: Hero764 is innocent.

I suggest we don't lynch until everyone has had the oppurtunity to post and our replacement has had time to catch up and post.

[Hero764]

Also, I want to pose a question to Tenchi. On day 1 you were much more active than now. Why has your activity dropped so much? I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just wondering(you have to admit it is odd that you would lose activity once suspicion is on you, not saying you wouldn't have a legitimate reason though).

[Hero764]

kik: That's a pretty stupid idea imo. Everyone else is going to look like a liar, and I feel that will impair the town's ability to scum hunt.

[Tenchi]

Also, I want to pose a question to Tenchi. On day 1 you were much more active than now. Why has your activity dropped so much? I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just wondering(you have to admit it is odd that you would lose activity once suspicion is on you, not saying you wouldn't have a legitimate reason though).

TBH I feel shitty for costing the Townies a lynch (actually two now). Other than that, I have been busy so I'm dividing my attention to several games so I don't get overwhelmingly annoyed/stressed. Annoyance+Stress = very horrible answers.

[Tenchi]

That way, in case the cop dies tonight(if we have one) then we can look back and find their investigation results.

Investigation results for hyper-claim: Hero764 is innocent.

I suggest we don't lynch until everyone has had the oppurtunity to post and our replacement has had time to catch up and post.

This is a good idea. I think we have nothing to lose.

"Feeres is innocent."

[kikuchiyo]

kik: That's a pretty stupid idea imo. Everyone else is going to look like a liar, and I feel that will impair the town's ability to scum hunt.

Why? The results are meaningless unless someone actually flips cop. The other alternatives are to possibly lose any and all investigations, or for our cop to claim in thread before night 2 begins. Personally, I don't see how either of those options benefit town. The results should be entirely ignored until cop claims or flips. We are not even guaranteed to have a cop, so please expand on your reasoning if you persist in believing this to be stupid.

[Tenchi]

Post 192 links to a similar question, because I don't know what you are saying.

And your answer to that does not show that I misquoted anything. I read it and feel that I have quoted the right stuff properly. Post 195, you provided me an example where I misquoted something. Nothing was misquoted there.

Uhm, if you quoted the right stuff, then why did you write that post "in the context of my day 1 post?"

Because that was the context of it. You removed the quote I referenced when you quoted it again.

Uhm, no. Read my post again. I made it painstakingly clear that I was directly talking about your D2 post, IN WHICH YOU CLAIMED THAT LYNCHING CJMILLER WAS A GOOD MOVE. Seriously, this isn't that hard to understand.

Uhm, no. Read my post again. I made it painstakingly clear that I was directly talking about your D1 post, in which I mentioned that lynching CJMiller was a good move. Seriously, this isn't that hard to understand.

ATTN TOWNIES: I think it should be pretty obvious by now that at least one of these two is scum. I really want your thoughts on this.

I have some problems with this.

1. I don't think Hockey is likely scum. Well I think he's 40% scum, maybe less.
2. You are setting both of us for a back to back lynch. When/Even if I flip town, I feel you'd set him up for the next lynch, which will cost us the game.
3. In the situation of the quicklynch, I don't think Hockey is scum. He couldn't have expected me to hammer. (If you have a case against him that accuses him of quicklynching CJMiller, then I say you shouldn't do that.)

Please do not set Hockey for a back to back lynch with the CJMiller thing as base on his case.

1. Of course you don't.
2. You seem so certain that he's not scum. The only way you could know that for certain is if you were scum yourself. Oops.
3. This isn't what my case is about.

You are misrepresenting me again. How would I know that Hockey is not town? I said I was less than 40% sure he was scum. How is that "certain"?

(When I lost my head) I thought that it was OK to lynch CJMIller because Hockey validates the lynch by putting him at L-1. So I hammer, and now get in trouble. It was MY mistake, not his.

Hockey did say he wanted CJMiller lynched. But his opinion isn't the only one you should follow.

That is why I call the whole thing a mistake.

I forgot who said this recently (I forgot), but an L-1 actually denotes a more careful investigation of the person, not a validation to hammer. An L-1 pushes pressure onto the player which elicits reactions from both him and his possible scum partner.

Yeah but I'm pretty sure Hockey never stated he wanted to pressure CJMiller(which he would've brought by this point in day 2, don't you agree?), and instead he wanted him just plain gone.

Again, I can't blame him for acting like that if he was a Townie. CJMiller WAS annoying. Again, I think I lost my cool and lynched him too quickly. It was my mistake, not his.

[Tenchi]

kik: That's a pretty stupid idea imo. Everyone else is going to look like a liar, and I feel that will impair the town's ability to scum hunt.

Why? The results are meaningless unless someone actually flips cop. The other alternatives are to possibly lose any and all investigations, or for our cop to claim in thread before night 2 begins. Personally, I don't see how either of those options benefit town. The results should be entirely ignored until cop claims or flips. We are not even guaranteed to have a cop, so please expand on your reasoning if you persist in believing this to be stupid.

WAIT WAIT

STOOPID IDEA ALERT

I made a mistake here.

If we happen to hit scum on our "fake investigations" scum would be able to know who is NOT the cop because the cop would have claimed by now (to save me of course *winkwink*). This would actually narrow down the choices for hitting Cop in their coming nightkill.

E.g. If we all "investigate" Hero "innocent", and Hero is scum. And Cop-Feeres was the only person not to invesigate Hero, then Hero would know to kill Feeres.

If we hit a Townie too much, it will also put at risk that specific Townie as candidate for being killed at night.

In other words, I feel we are giving scum additional information here in picking the best person to kill.

[Tenchi]

For the record:

kik: That's a pretty stupid idea imo. Everyone else is going to look like a liar, and I feel that will impair the town's ability to scum hunt.

THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

Smells like scum not thinking and just want to shoot down possibly good ideas.

[Hero764]

Why? The results are meaningless unless someone actually flips cop. The other alternatives are to possibly lose any and all investigations, or for our cop to claim in thread before night 2 begins. Personally, I don't see how either of those options benefit town. The results should be entirely ignored until cop claims or flips. We are not even guaranteed to have a cop, so please expand on your reasoning if you persist in believing this to be stupid.

My point is that it causes unneeded speculation on the player's that didn't turn out to be a cop. For instance:

Player A hyper investigates Player B, and Player B ends up as townie after being killed. Would this not put suspicion on Player A for a (seemingly) random guess?

Post 192 links to a similar question, because I don't know what you are saying.

And your answer to that does not show that I misquoted anything. I read it and feel that I have quoted the right stuff properly. Post 195, you provided me an example where I misquoted something. Nothing was misquoted there.

Uhm, if you quoted the right stuff, then why did you write that post "in the context of my day 1 post?"

Because that was the context of it. You removed the quote I referenced when you quoted it again.

Uhm, no. Read my post again. I made it painstakingly clear that I was directly talking about your D2 post, IN WHICH YOU CLAIMED THAT LYNCHING CJMILLER WAS A GOOD MOVE. Seriously, this isn't that hard to understand.

Uhm, no. Read my post again. I made it painstakingly clear that I was directly talking about your D1 post, in which I mentioned that lynching CJMiller was a good move. Seriously, this isn't that hard to understand.

YOU SAID THAT YOU DO THINK(NOT DID THINK) LYNCHING CJMILLER WAS A GOOD MOVE. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHETHER OR NOT THE POST WAS WRITTEN IN THE CONTEXT OF A DAY 1 POST, BECAUSE IT IS VERY OBVIOUS MY RESPONSE TO IT WAS NOT. THE CONTEXT OF YOUR DAY 2 POST IS ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT.

How something so god damn simple CONTINUES to slip your mind is really mind-boggling. I'm pretty sure you knew about all of this, and are using this as some sort of defense technique, because there's no way in hell anyone is this bad at ignoring stuff.

ATTN TOWNIES: I think it should be pretty obvious by now that at least one of these two is scum. I really want your thoughts on this.

I have some problems with this.

1. I don't think Hockey is likely scum. Well I think he's 40% scum, maybe less.
2. You are setting both of us for a back to back lynch. When/Even if I flip town, I feel you'd set him up for the next lynch, which will cost us the game.
3. In the situation of the quicklynch, I don't think Hockey is scum. He couldn't have expected me to hammer. (If you have a case against him that accuses him of quicklynching CJMiller, then I say you shouldn't do that.)

Please do not set Hockey for a back to back lynch with the CJMiller thing as base on his case.

1. Of course you don't.
2. You seem so certain that he's not scum. The only way you could know that for certain is if you were scum yourself. Oops.
3. This isn't what my case is about.

You are misrepresenting me again. How would I know that Hockey is not town? I said I was less than 40% sure he was scum. How is that "certain"?

Oh be quiet. You know exactly what I'm getting at.

You said if we lynched Hockeyruler in lylo we would lose. Not "probably lose", plain old lose. This is only possible if he's townie. You were certain we would lose, you were certain he's town.

I forgot who said this recently (I forgot), but an L-1 actually denotes a more careful investigation of the person, not a validation to hammer. An L-1 pushes pressure onto the player which elicits reactions from both him and his possible scum partner.

Yeah but I'm pretty sure Hockey never stated he wanted to pressure CJMiller(which he would've brought by this point in day 2, don't you agree?), and instead he wanted him just plain gone.

Again, I can't blame him for acting like that if he was a Townie. CJMiller WAS annoying. Again, I think I lost my cool and lynched him too quickly. It was my mistake, not his.[/quote]Hockeyruler said he was townie and still wanted him lynched. How the hell can't you blame him?

Oh that's right, you're scum.

THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

Smells like scum not thinking and just want to shoot down possibly good ideas.

I love how you failed to mention how it didn't make sense.

[Tenchi]

I'm so tired of this exchange. I tried my best at convincing you and I will take questions from other people.

Anyway, I still encourage everyone else to read that exchange later and see what's wrong.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

SerialClergyman replaces Slaine Hayes.

[SerialClergyman]

Hi all,

SC here replacing in. I'd love to have a massive conntent post but it's 2:09am here in Sydney and I'm off to bed

I'll do a reread in the next little while and get some thoughts down to see if we can get this back on track.

Cheers!

[Toledo25]

Welcome aboard, SerialClergyman

kik: That's a pretty stupid idea imo. Everyone else is going to look like a liar, and I feel that will impair the town's ability to scum hunt.

Why? The results are meaningless unless someone actually flips cop. The other alternatives are to possibly lose any and all investigations, or for our cop to claim in thread before night 2 begins. Personally, I don't see how either of those options benefit town. The results should be entirely ignored until cop claims or flips. We are not even guaranteed to have a cop, so please expand on your reasoning if you persist in believing this to be stupid.

WAIT WAIT

STOOPID IDEA ALERT

I made a mistake here.

If we happen to hit scum on our "fake investigations" scum would be able to know who is NOT the cop because the cop would have claimed by now (to save me of course *winkwink*). This would actually narrow down the choices for hitting Cop in their coming nightkill.

E.g. If we all "investigate" Hero "innocent", and Hero is scum. And Cop-Feeres was the only person not to invesigate Hero, then Hero would know to kill Feeres.

If we hit a Townie too much, it will also put at risk that specific Townie as candidate for being killed at night.

In other words, I feel we are giving scum additional information here in picking the best person to kill.

Also, if someone "claims" a scum to be innocent, then the Mafia can automatically rule them out to

not

being a cop. I suggest that we stop this idea.

[Hero764]

I'm so tired of this exchange. I tried my best at convincing you and I will take questions from other people.

Anyway, I still encourage everyone else to read that exchange later and see what's wrong.

Convince me of what? That what you claim is relevant really isn't? This was a really drastic way of trying to avoid the question tbh, but w/e. I won't bring this up unless people see some sort of fault of mine all of this.

Also, if someone "claims" a scum to be innocent, then the Mafia can automatically rule them out to not being a cop. I suggest that we stop this idea.

The best point you've made all game

[Tenchi]

Also, if someone "claims" a scum to be innocent, then the Mafia can automatically rule them out to not being a cop. I suggest that we stop this idea.

The best point you've made all game

Yeah, give him credit for what I have said.

[Hero764]

Also, if someone "claims" a scum to be innocent, then the Mafia can automatically rule them out to not being a cop. I suggest that we stop this idea.

The best point you've made all game

Yeah, give him credit for what I have said.

I was giving him credit for what he added to your post(hence the 'also'). That's not to undermine what you've said, I don't disagree with it, its just that he's been less active than you in this game so it was a little joke =P.

I think we need a prod on hockeyruler. He seems to have disappeared.

Mod, please prod Hockeyruler