Newbie 773 - New Bieland GAME OVER

[hasdgfas]

Vote: hasdgfas

because I don't know what a hasdgfas is.

A Cow.

Also, no random vote from me. Instead, I've got a couple questions for y'all.

1) What do you want to get out of this game?
2) Do you have a strategy of how to look for scum?

[hasdgfas]

Vote Baszie just going in alphabetical order

votes only count if they're bolded with

and [/b ] tags(take out the space after the b)

[hasdgfas]

In what way I do that best is to quickly confront questions like this and ask why would this information be helpful to you.

It's not how it's going to help me, but how it's going to help you. If you think about what you're going to do before you start playing, it helps you be able to look for scum.

But, I'm not gonna vote yet. A question for everyone: why shouldn't I vote you?

A question back: Why

should

you vote for me?

[hasdgfas]

but thanks for the vote it make me feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside

vote: tubby216

This vote is not a joke. he's trying too hard to be nonchalant about the vote on him so he can look town.

[hasdgfas]

"I'm not going to vote yet" during random voting? Why the hell not?

I said the same thing. Why be suspicious of him, but not me?

[hasdgfas]

Vote: hasdgfas

because I don't know what a hasdgfas is.

Also, no random vote from me. Instead, I've got a couple questions for y'all.

Why is this not suspticious and yet I am?

I already asked this question.

"I'm not going to vote yet" during random voting? Why the hell not?

I said the same thing. Why be suspicious of him, but not me?

Because you seem to actually be creating positive conversation, and I feel like Ryan's tactic seemed more of an aversion to suspicion rather than an active scumhunting technique.

Well yeah, I don't really wanna be voted off in the first round, but that applies whether I am townie or mafia, right?

Right, but townies shouldn't be afraid to bet lynched if it will help the town in the long run.

Unvote
Vote: Ryan

Because it seems like he's trying too hard to remove any suspicion for himself. "I'm not going to vote yet" during random voting? Why the hell not?

Umm, well who says this first round HAS to be random voting? I think it's reasonable if I try to get a feel for y'all and make a vaguely educated guess as to who's mafia, imo the best way for me to do this is to ask you a question and see your answer.

Amen to that. I completely agree.

Keep the suspicion coming, this is giving me good insight.

Vote hasdgfas

Why did you vote for me?
And I'm not a huge fan of that first sentence there. Just like when I voted for tubby, you're too nonchalant about being pressured.

Unvote: Ryan

Oops. Sorry that was a newbie mistake. To explain my reasoning: I thought mufasa unvoted ryan. That was my mistake though.

Baszie, why did you unvote just because someone called you out? And pulling the newbie card? We know you're a newbie, don't try to defend yourself with it.

[hasdgfas]

Baszie, why did you unvote just because someone called you out? And pulling the newbie card? We know you're a newbie, don't try to defend yourself with it.

Seems like you're trying to push me into voting Ryan.

Not at all. I'm just questioning why you unvoted after someone called you out. It doesn't matter who or when, that's scummy.

We have lots of time to further discuss people's motivations, so I figured I'd unvote ryan so we don't lynch someone too soon.
about the newbie card; I was merely replying to Dragonfly, he wondered if I made a newbie mistake, or if was contradicting my own statement.

Ok, I see. I missed that question before.

Actually, imo Ryan seems more town than you now hasdgfas, I get the impression you're trying to speed the game up, while ryan is taking it a lot slower.

What makes you say that?

[hasdgfas]

Actually, imo Ryan seems more town than you now hasdgfas, I get the impression you're trying to speed the game up, while ryan is taking it a lot slower.

What makes you say that?

Ryan takes it slow, while you seemed pretty sure about your vote on tubby in the 31st post. I was pointing out that it would be stupid to not unvote ryan, because there are more suspicious players. I might have taken you as a wrong example though, I was a bit quick with my accusations.

if there are more suspicious players, why aren't you voting?

In addition, making a serious vote quickly is not the same as "being pretty sure". I saw something I wanted to jump on, and did.

Anyone else notice how quiet tubby's been since I mentioned that?

[hasdgfas]

<b> vote hasdgfas </b>

because earlier he wrote "Right, but townies shouldn't be afraid to bet lynched if it will help the town in the long run." in post 45

but i think that matters cuz if a townie gets lynched...then isn't that one step closer to the mafia winning?

Yes, but every lynch gives us information to help find the mafia. Even when we lynch a townie, we can look at the lynch wagon and the lynched player's actions to help us figure out who the mafia are. If they're a townie, their suspicions and stuff can help. If you're a townie and you're lynched, make sure to get your final thoughts out there so people know what you were thinking about the mafia.

I wasn't saying townie lynches were necessarily "good ideas", but they can give us a lot of information to help the remaining townies find the mafia.

[hasdgfas]

Vote: xRECKONERx

, I got a sense he's scummy because he's playing a bit more aggressive than most of us.

Why is aggressive scummy?
Do you not think I'm aggressive?

[hasdgfas]

Hmm I really thing we need Cow to stay around

she

is very helpful around here especially to those who are new to the game. Lots of new people need

her

to stay here.

Also, two days without posting isn't uncommon and doesn't mean I'm ignoring the game. I don't want to be controlling all the conversation though. I'd like everyone to be talking

[hasdgfas]

@koriental

read post 56? I think I defended myself there

[hasdgfas]

change vote Vote Koriental

Do you have any

reason

for this or are you just trying to start a bandwagon? I find posts like this, where all someone does is vote with no explanation, VERY suspicious. Let's hear it.

Unvote
Vote: Mufasa

I actually was trying to get the chat flowing again it was really quiet in here.

why would a reasonless vote be a good way of doing that?

[hasdgfas]

It is... It is... As you can see it worked

But you're still not helping the discussion, and if you're doing something to create discussion, you need a follow-up, otherwise you just did something scummy for no good reason.

unvote, vote: mufasa

[hasdgfas]

Well my plan worked.... But seriously I had no reason to vote other than make a bandwagon and create a stir

which is a horrible reason to vote.
At least have a meaningful reason that you can state once people call you out.

[hasdgfas]

as for "cow". yeah. u explained it well, but i was actually looking for someone else to defend what you said/did. because if someone else could defend you well, then i'd be more convinced. well. alot has happened since back then, and i'm going to take some time to think about who this mafia character is.

IC Tip: Don't try to get people to defend someone else, because it's probably not going to happen. After all, the only people who know someone else's alignment are the scum(at least in a newbie game) and a cop with results. You're not going to get people to defend others because it can be rather suspicious after that person flips. [/IC Tip]

unvote

bobo, please come answer the questions asked of you. Consider this a vote on you pending a vote count.

[hasdgfas]

mod:

I will be gone with zero internet access from Friday until the next Friday or Saturday. Please don't replace me. Thanks.
-Cow

[hasdgfas]

cow, after a quick reread, I'm seeing a lot of connections between you and bobo.
not your fault exactly, but the way bobo acted D1 doesn't make you look good at all. If anyone else cares I'll provide examples.

vote: hasdgfas

If this day does not end with a hasdgfas lynch, I will be disappointed.

I would love to see some examples as well, as I have no idea what you're talking about.
I will reread Day 1 shortly as I have been away a while.

[hasdgfas]

@Dragonfly: Bobo was scum. Scum want town to die. Scum will create connections that make town die. Bobo was a newbie, so he's a bit less seasoned player than others, and he'd probably be hesitant to go out on his own and look suspicious, so he follows someone more experienced(me) to try to get an idea of what to do. I find that scum follow town more often than they follow scum. That's Act I and the first half of Act II.

Someone who doesn't answer questions asked of them may just not have seen the questions. I gave him a chance to explain himself, and I was going to say more if I had the chance before leaving. However, I lost my internet access earlier than I thought and was not able to come back to check and say anything else/vote before I left.

[hasdgfas]

Hmm. Wow. That... actually makes a little bit of sense.

Vote hasdgfas

And this post is horrid.

Do you have anything else to say or are you going completely off of what someone else said?

[hasdgfas]

@Dragonfly: Bobo was scum. Scum want town to die. Scum will create connections that make town die. Bobo was a newbie, so he's a bit less seasoned player than others, and he'd probably be hesitant to go out on his own and look suspicious, so he follows someone more experienced(me) to try to get an idea of what to do. I find that scum follow town more often than they follow scum. That's Act I and the first half of Act II.

Oh please. Don't use the "I'm town" excuse. I don't know what you could possibly say to defend yourself really, other than "I'm not lying," but in this situation I wouldn't believe you anyway, sorry.

but I"m not saying "I'm town" by itself.
I have reasons behind that, which is completely different.

[hasdgfas]

vote dragonfly13

not in love with his posts,

i believe cow to be quite townie in his play

tubby, what don't you love?
why is it scummy?

Disagreeing with someone is not enough to vote someone on its own.

[hasdgfas]

i voted for dragonfly because he deserves it, read the thread.

so there is my defense,

and your case on me is rather good i have no defense lynch away.

vote: tubby

You know better than this.

Explain your vote. The onus of proof is on you to convince us to vote for dragonfly. Don't just assume that we're going to come to the same conclusion reading the same thing. Make your case and convince us.

Plus, giving up is just anti-town

[hasdgfas]

I did too and yours as well I find you very scummy.

Mufasa, please explain why you find tubby scummy and use examples. Thanks.

[hasdgfas]

The Case Against The Cow:

Cow begins by saying he's not going to random vote and instead poses two questions to the rest of the town. He's appearing very IC, but at the same time, are these questions really helping town? He never really follows up with the questions or guides the answers anywhere, he just asks them and that's that.

Did I really forget to do that Definitely wasn't trying to ignore that.

Then, Cow is careful that when Ryan Colt pulls the same thing he does, he doesn't answer Ryan's question. Instead, he fires back with another question, completely dodging the answering of that question.

Questions can be answered with questions.

His first real vote is on tubby because tubby is apparently being "too nonchalant". Cow then goes on to pressure me, Ryan, and baszie. That's four suspects in the span of two Cow posts. Oh, then let's not forget that his next suspect is Mufasa when he randomly votes to try and get conversation started,

after

the bandwagon on Mufasa has already begun.

Pressuring someone is not the same as them being a suspect or me even thinking about voting them.

When Mufasa gives his defense (make a bandwagon and create a stir), Cow jumps all over him saying that he needs a "meaningful" reason to vote. Then two days later he just randomly unvotes Mufasa and says he's going to vote Bobo pending a vote count from the mod.

When Bobo the scum is finally lynched, the

only

people not voting for him are Cow, Bobo himself, Ryan (who we now know was Doc), and koriental. The last person to hammer Bobo were Baszie and Tubby.

In my opinion, this makes Cow look quite scummy. He said he'd vote for Bobo pending a vote count, then never does. In light of these events, I will

Vote: Hasdgfas

. However, I'm still looking down the barrel at Baszie and Tubby and koriental, though it's much harder to read koriental's play due to his newbie status.

In case you didn't notice, I went V/LA and didn't make another post after the vote count, so I didn't have a chance to vote for him.

[hasdgfas]

so I didn't have a chance to vote for him.

You could've voted in your post notifying us of your V/LA status.

There hadn't been a vote count at that point. I wasn't going to be the hammer and then disappear.

[hasdgfas]

ok re-read have no idea why i saw dragonfly as scum, i looked through my notes and i must have been drunk or something when i wrote them because i do not see it now,

so

unvote

......
Drunk defense? really tubby? I expected better from you.

confirm vote: tubby216

[hasdgfas]

I need to point out that tubby claimed

when he wasn't at L-1

. Time for a lynch.

Vote: Tubby

why is that lynchable?

[hasdgfas]

As is see it, Koriental and reckoner make themselves seem much less suspicious by trying to get me in the game again (again, sorry, should have said something). Dragonfly has made some excellent points, and he voted against bobo.
The way I see it, hasdgfas and mufasa seem scummish
Does this seem logical? -> Give me your thoughts

This seems to be a whole lot of nothing. Do you have examples or any sort of argument to make your case?

[hasdgfas]

and by the way cow i am of legal age to drink and occasionally i enjoy and nice disarono and coke and sometime i enjoy to many while trying to play mafia lol

ok sure, but still, drunk defense? We can't necessarily believe that.

[hasdgfas]

Umm.

That was stupid of scum to kill the most obvious scum

Vote: Baszie

Ok, I really don't like this post.

However, I'm not sure about Dragonfly either. I don't like how he's trying to pander to me to follow him.

[hasdgfas]

My inactivity is most of all caused by my finals. Have my last test tomorrow so I'll be around more after that. If I really am a problem, you can replace me, but imo, I've actually been more active since a couple of days ago.

Anyway, cow has been absent since dragonfly pointed out he's sure reckoner is scum. So far, it's been hard to place cow as either scum or town, but why isn't he around during your discussion?
I kind of scratched reckoner from my 'probable mafia' list after bobo got lynched, he might have been the second person to vote, but he's active enough here to see when a lynch is getting out of hand. But then he votes me, he just lynched tubby, and then he attacked me without hardly any explanation.

Again, About the mafia trying to lynch a doctor: if there is no roleblocker, there also isn't a doctor. This means that mafia should be not trying to lynch a doctor. Dragonfly claimed that reckoner was trying to vote the doc, but if there is a doc, there is a roleblocker. I don't see why the doc needs to be lynched by the mafia if he can just be roleblocked. I think we can even assume there isn't a doctor at all.

One more thing, why isn't koriental suspected by anyone?

vote: Baszie

He is placing suspicion on 3 of the four people that aren't him that are left in the game at the same time, showing how he doesn't care who is lynched.

Not to mention that he says we can assume there isn't a doctor. The only person who would have any knowledge of that is the mafia, because they know whether they are a goon or a RB.

In addition, he is making a post very soon after being called out, which is always suspicious to me. It's like he's trying to slide by.

I'm also sorry I haven't contributed more to the dragonfly-reckoner debate, but I hate these quote-wars. They're just hard to read. If I can find time later today, I'll read it, but it's going to be rough.

[hasdgfas]

@Reckoner: I play by asking a lot of questions. That's what I end up doing until I see something to jump on. I get that same suspicion a lot, but I often don't seem to do much. I'm always thinking, it just doesn't get into the thread until I see something that warrants a vote.

[hasdgfas]

Then Cow, just for my own sake, what's your opinion of Dragonfly's vote on me?

I feel like he thinks it's really good. I, on the other hand, am not really sure. I definitely don't like how he calls you confirmed scum when we have a dead cop. Right now, I think you're both just arguing townies and Baszie is the scum. Maybe something else will make me change my mind though.

[hasdgfas]

Playing the newbie card on Day 3 = no no.

I agree with this.

Baszie, I still have some questions about your thoughts on koriental. Why say nothing and expect answers from others? I feel like you're just following popular opinion with regards to him.

[hasdgfas]

@Cow: Regardless of newbie playstyle, would you call koriental town or scum?

Well, Because I think Baszie is scum and we've already lynched one scum, I'd call him town.

[hasdgfas]

I would like to note that we have nearly two weeks until deadline and I would prefer that no one else vote for baszie for at least a few days or until I change my mind.

why is that? Is there a reason that we should stall once we've decided on someone to lynch?

[hasdgfas]

That said, cow, tell me why you're not scum. Convince me.

tell me why you think I am. I personally think it could be either of you two and I have to read the last couple days to see what I think.

[hasdgfas]

Well first, cow, who do you find scummiest between me and koriental?

see last post. I'm not sure.

[hasdgfas]

Forgot this was actually in day. Mixed it up with my other newbie game, which is in night.
Ok, here we go. Let's jump right into the PBPA's of both of you.

koriental:
Post 1: I found his last line in this post rather odd. He seems to be playing both sides of his (incorrectly-formatted) vote. I don't like that, but for a first vote and first real post in the entire site, it's not too bad.
Post 4: I found it really weird how he wanted someone else to defend me, as though me defending myself meant absolutely nothing.
Post 16: I like this post, actually, especially where he says that he's suspicious of those who try to confirm someone as town.
Post 20: I also really like this post, because I was thinking the exact same thing.

So basically, thinking back, I thought that koriental was going to be my top choice, but looking back, I don't see where I thought that.
Anyway, time to look at Dragonfly:

Post 10: Dragonfly just posted and voted me with no reasoning. I find this strange because early in the game, he called out koriental for voting me and then giving reasons. I also really didn't like that he said "If you want me to, I'll provide examples", when if he has examples, why wouldn't he give them right away?
Post 13: In a day, he went from "sorry Cow, I'm not listening to you, scum" to just switching his vote really quickly. What exactly happened to make such a quick move? I think he saw that he just wasn't going to get a lynch of me and decided to bail on that.
Post 17: Like I said, he called me out to help on Reckoner. I found it strange that he called me out to back him up and not anyone else. I think he's doing what I said in my defense of his case on me. Scum try to latch onto the experienced players.
Post 22: I'm not a fan of how he just follows me onto Baszie after calling me his second choice for scum just a little earlier.
Post 33: I don't like this post because being very sure that you're going to die just feels off to me. It rubs me the wrong way.
Post 38: I find it a little bit strange that voting MORE is considered suspicious. Why is that more suspicious than not voting at all?
Post 40: That's complete crap. Why lurk to see who would speak up first? Call people out. Don't just let the lurking happen.

[hasdgfas]

Ok, this game is apparently over, so here's some things I have to say.
I sucked this game. Completely, and totally. Probably had something to do with the fact that my computer decided to go on the fritz, but I hate that excuse, so I just tried to keep going, which probably wasn't a good idea, as I couldn't give the game the attention it needed. Near the end, I think I just overanalyzed. I was feeling koriental as scum based on gut, but Dragonfly's post 40 really just rubbed me the wrong way. On that note:

On the other hand, why aren't you just identifying our posts with their actual post numbers?

I was. If you go down to the bottom of the page and do "display all posts by: Player X", it'll put someone in isolation, giving the post numbers just with them posting. I always forget that I need to explain that in newbie games.

koriental: well done. You posted enough that I didn't get too suspicious of you for lurking, and your posts themselves didn't make you that suspicious to me. In future games, posting more would be very helpful to everyone else though. Keeping me alive was a good decision too. Did you think of that before Night 1 or did that not come to you until Dragonfly said something Day 2?

Dragonfly: Also well done. You're a very good player, I just think you can get overaggressive and tunnel-visioned(I do the same thing sometimes). I think the main thing that made me suspicious of you were the times you called for me and me alone to help you out when it wasn't 3 players left. Because I was the IC, I felt like it was scum trying to get an experienced townie on their side. The only other big thing was continually saying you were going to be killed at night. Everyone hates it when people say that. Not really something scummy, but something to keep in mind: Never say you thought someone would die. It leads scum to not kill them so you get more suspicious of them, like happened this game.

Reckoner: You also played pretty well after the beginning of the game. I don't honestly remember anything later in the game that I was suspicious of you for.

Baszie: You need to post more in the game. Not to mention, you don't have to post everything that comes into your head. Sometimes it felt like you were just posting trains of thought, which always comes off bad.

To the others, there's not really a whole lot I can say, because I don't remember many posts from you.

[hasdgfas]

Ugh. Town fail.

I think we were too good for our own good, if that makes sense.

[hasdgfas]

then reckoner opened his mouth and got an extension for day 1!!! that sucked.

Actually, that was me. I'm actually kinda surprised at cow's play. A lot of people played scummy, which made it very difficult. But I thought my vote on bobo would have been an easy town tell for cow on the final day, being the IC. Since he didn't take me for town I took him for scum, and that's how it ended. Good game everyone.

meh, like I said, this wasn't one of my best games. I did a PBPA, but I hadn't done a full reread, which was the next step.

[hasdgfas]

I also don't take things for towntells because it's really, really, really, really dangerous.