Mini 775 - Hammersmouth Is Under Attack! (Game over)

[kabenon007]

How is jumping on two different wagons, one randomly and the other for scumminess, equal to a speed lynch? I said I didn't want you lynched. So I was not rushing to lynch someone.

I'm saying that it's odd that you identify just how bad lurking scum are (worse than talking scum, that is), but make no attempt to root them out.

I would prefer to go after the talking scum, because I can form arguments against them better because they have given me more material to work with. I'm more confident in my ability to go after the talkers than the non-talkers, just as I'm sure others prefer to go after lurkers.

No, seriously, quote it. Go back through your posts and quote your valuable information. I can't find it - has anyone else had any luck?

I was making fun of you, Percy, cuz you used the exact same words in post 102:

There's your explanation. Should I quote all my previous posts whenever I post for your ease of reference?

I've already posted what information I have. Should I quote all my previous posts whenever I post for your ease of reference?

See the sarcastic similarity?

I do not plan on quoting all my posts containing information, and neither did you. If you need me too, it is only because you are too lazy to go back and find them. If you have specific questions, that's fine, I'll go find them, but quoting all my posts would be ridiculous, as most are quite long.

[CJMiller]

I'm not a vigilante, just a regular townsperson.

As for Percy's post 187, people will think of me as a flake if I ask for replacement without a legitimate reason.

[Tarballs]

7th Vote Count of Day 1

6 - kirroha

(semioldguy, kabenon007, CJMiller, Artem, Sotty7, iamausername)

5 - CJMiller

(Percy, Farkshinsoup, Pablo Molinero, _over9000, kirroha)

1 - iamausername

(Wulfy)


With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Deadline: May 12th, 2009

[Farkshinsoup]

Here are some questions from a while back:

There's already a great level of activity in this game, which bodes well for it.
But am I really getting called out for lurking when 24 hours had not even passed since my last post, and we're only on page 3? And by a player who has posted a lot but said almost nothing (lurking in plain sight)?

Which player are you talking about here?

CJ Miller, post 66:

FoS: farkshinsoup

FoS: _over9000

both for lurking.

unvote

Psycho's last post seemed genuine. Maybe I'm just a sucker. I always want to believe the persecuted townie (see below). Except when I'm scum, of course.

How was he persecuted?

Iam and I voted him early in the game for saying this:

Either way, I think we all agree that Percy = first real suspicious guy for the Day.

Then I stayed on him for backing down on it. By the time I posted my 127, I had decided that he was a townie that had made a mistake. My pressure on him was the "persecution" I was referring to.

Lot of good circumstantial evidence against kirroha - I see where everyone is coming from. My head is saying "scummy" but my gut tells me that she's town. It feels like one of those things where every time she opens her mouth now she just confirms everyone's suspicions that much more. (I realize that could be because she's been caught, but the day is still young - I reserve judgement for now)

Right now I'm liking the CJ Miller wagon. He seems like if he is scum, some well applied pressure will reveal some cracks, or make him shut up completely. Either one would be telling.

Vote: CJ Miller

This is a whole bunch of fence sitting on kirroha, you have one foot firmly in both camps. You go on to state you like the (easier?) CJ wagon... Why?

This question is loaded. It's an accusation masked as interrogation. You seem to be asking me why I had conflicted feelings about someone who I should have easily recognized as scum. That explanation is in my quote. Why am I not allowed to sit on the fence? I also explain why I put my vote on CJ Miller at that point. If you don't believe those explanations, that's fine. Then say that. (I will point out that CJ Miller was hardly the "easy" lynch at that point. Kirroha had more votes and more attention from the town, IMO. It's part of why I voted for CJ - I felt that he deserved at least as much, if not more pressure at that point.)

Ok, my head just beat out my gut - I'm going to

FoS kirroha

. CJ Miller vs. Kirroha feels like bussing to me. I'd be happy at this point lynching either one of them.

What prompts this change?

In kirroha's 154 and 155 on page 7, she shifts gears from defending herself to attacking CJ. I didn't buy it. So many people had called her out for pointing out her own pro-town behaviour that this seemed like a very calculated change of tack to appear to be scum-hunting. Her 155 is a big long post that looks impressive, but instead dissects the posts of a player who basically hasn't said anything. There was no new information, unless you count the in-depth analysis of CJ's first post of the game. All of this felt like her trying to appear townie by filling up the page with words - words that hunt! I still think she's bussing. I'd still be happy to hammer, but I'd like her to claim first. She already soft claimed, we might as well get it out there.

[kirroha]

Mod: Turns out that there is internet connection here, but no computers. I have to type this is some weird cyberspace centre which charges money. So I'm not sure if I'm able to come much at all. I think I might need a replacement.

All of this felt like her trying to appear townie by filling up the page with words - words that hunt! I still think she's bussing. I'd still be happy to hammer, but I'd like her to claim first. She already soft claimed, we might as well get it out there.

Well, since I'm at L-1, I guess I might as well claim. I am a

Vigilante

. The number of shots I possess is not very important at this current moment. Sure, you all might think I'm just an SK who is pretending to be a Vig to prevent my own lynch, but this is not the case. I don't know if you all would believe me or not, but yes, I'm a Vig.

As I said, this sort of serves to tell the mafia the number of killing roles that there currently are. This is why I was so hesitant about claiming.

[kirroha]

And for those who didn't catch it in the previous page, I am currently in China visiting my relatives. So I'm having hugely limited access.

[kirroha]

Mod:I think I might need a replacement.

Scratch that. My parents immediately denied me coming here once every 3 days, or even once a week.

Mod: I want to request for a replacement.

[Tarballs]

Very well then. I'm now looking for a replacement.

[Wulfy]

Unvote; Vote: iamausername

My scum list now has two people.

Iaaun and kabe?

What do you think about kirr and CJ?

Iaaun-Actually, not on my scum list.

Kabe-On my probably scum list

Kirr-If I view her with the same eyes I'd give zwetchenwasser stupidity, she looks like dumb townie...

CJ-Looks like an idiot. Not particularly either alignment, just an idiot.

Then who is the second person on your scumlist?

Why are you voting for a player who is not on your scum list? Especially since your previous vote was on someone who is on your scum list.

IAAUN is on the fence like the rest of you. If voted only for people on my scum list, I wouldn't have the opportunity for good old fashion day 1 reactions. As of right now, I'm not going to explain who is on #2 on my scum list because, to be completely honest, it is a HUGE reach. So, I'm just leaving the person there until I get a chance to better review it (with a little hindsight day 2, hopefully.) Right now, I'm going to review Kabe's post (after responding to newer stuff).

Kirr has just made me very angry by claiming... at the same time, I am now putting her on my: probably should lynch list....

No, better than that: Kirroha's replacement should shoot herself. That is the one surefire way of proving her innocent. On the other hand, we could use her to shoot CJ and then have Kirr shoot herself night 2. In any case, I do believe that either of the above is a better course of action than Kirr's lynch. Although, that is just my opinion. (I prefer her to shoot herself tonight.)

Kabe's post that I said was interesting earlier:

I would like to say that the first part of the post really wowed me, felt genuine, and was really well put together for the most part...until...

I've got three people who I am watching, all of which are people who attacked me. Can I help that? Why would I start interrogating people if I don't see a reason to interrogate? I saw inconsistencies and scumtells in kirroha and Miller, and I'm watching Wulfy. Also, I don't think your scum, even though you're attacking me. If what you're saying is true, that I only find scum on those who attack me, then wouldn't I be suspicious of you as well? And _over9000 as well? Granted, I don't think his post was as attacking as yours, but still.

*licks* It's nice you'd watch the sexeh wulfeh, but beside the point.

Here's the issue: I accuse you of not scum hunting. You say you have been scum hunting, but you really haven't.

Kabe: Vote Percy (I think?), diescumdie

Wulfy: Kabe's post is scummy. Wagon hopping, no reason.

Kabe: No, its not. "Wagons are used to lynch. Getting on them serves town." "I believed [...]Percy was the scummiest."

Wulfy: Hm...well, votes 4 and 5 are the scummiest. So, your vote is still scummy.?!
*NOTE: Failed to mention his defense is crap in this post, but oh well.

Kabe: After the fact, he tries to build a case against Percy. He then UNVOTES. (Just noting this is scummy. This is not really in our discussion directly.)

Kabe: Until you come up with your own opinion all you receive from me is "..."

Wulfy:The above post doesn't change my opinion.
...I was the first to say your bandwagon is scummy.

Kabe: Case against Kirr.

Wulfy: Or...it could just conclude she's a scatterbrain, not necessarily scum.

Kabe: Isn't Kirr's "You're scum. Prove otherwise" [as bad as] "Diescumdie?" They say the same thing.

Wulfy:... No, solely because you wagon hopped for wagon hopping. Additionally, I never said that I cleared Kirr, just suspect her less than you."

Kabe:

"And this only confirms my suspicions of you, kirroha. First you attack me. Then, after attacking me again, you say I made some "good defense points." Not that you were more suspicious of CJ. That I made some good defense points. That to me says, "Good job, you defended yourself well, my suspicion of you has gone down." Which was odd to say the least because it certainly didn't look like you thought I'd made good defense points. In fact, it looked like you were just trying to get off me and go for an easier target in CJ."

NOTE: I didn't respond to this... However, this looks really scummy, stupid, and a bit like reaching.

This bring us to the giant Kabe post I attacked above.

So:

Unvote; Vote Kabenon

What was that again? Oh yes:
"Diescumdie"

[kabenon007]

Once again Wulfy's vote is on me. And once again, I don't really care. If I'm not scumhunting with all the questions I pose, the analytical replies I make, and the cases I bring against people, then what am I doing with those, Wulfy?

[_over9000]

I've been overwhelmed by homework this weekend, so I don't have anywhere near enough time to type out a full analysis. However, I have one major question:

Wulfy, why are all of your votes on people nobody else is voting for?

[Pablo Molinero]

I've been overwhelmed by homework this weekend

This. And a vig claim?

[semioldguy]

As of right now, I'm not going to explain who is on #2 on my scum list because, to be completely honest, it is a HUGE reach. So, I'm just leaving the person there until I get a chance to better review it (with a little hindsight day 2, hopefully.)

I don't like this. You are hiding information that could be helpful to the town based off the hope that you make it to day two. A town aligned player shouldn't withhold opinions at the end of the day because he thinks he will make it through the night, because we don't have control over whether or not we will make it to the next day. I'm not saying that I think you should reveal it now if you don't think it advantageous, but to say you are waiting until day two is just bad in my opinion.

[Wulfy]

I've been overwhelmed by homework this weekend, so I don't have anywhere near enough time to type out a full analysis. However, I have one major question:

Wulfy, why are all of your votes on people nobody else is voting for?

This is irrelevant, but I'd imagine is either because people haven't been in thread or disagree with me.

As of right now, I'm not going to explain who is on #2 on my scum list because, to be completely honest, it is a HUGE reach. So, I'm just leaving the person there until I get a chance to better review it (with a little hindsight day 2, hopefully.)

I don't like this. You are hiding information that could be helpful to the town based off the hope that you make it to day two. A town aligned player shouldn't withhold opinions at the end of the day because he thinks he will make it through the night, because we don't have control over whether or not we will make it to the next day. I'm not saying that I think you should reveal it now if you don't think it advantageous, but to say you are waiting until day two is just bad in my opinion.

Actually, telling you would just make me look stupid. And I'm not going to wait till day 2. In fact, I probably won't mention it as it gets dumber and dumber as the player posts. It isn't anti town to hold back useless information, and mostly irrelevant since its turned out to be complete garbage anyway.

Kabe: You have done things that are town, but the vast majority of your play seems scummy to me. As for your "analytical posts," well...they arn't that good. So, I'm irrelevant.

[kabenon007]

Actually, telling you would just make me look stupid. And I'm not going to wait till day 2. In fact, I probably won't mention it as it gets dumber and dumber as the player posts. It isn't anti town to hold back useless information, and mostly irrelevant since its turned out to be complete garbage anyway.

So, in the five posts between the time when you said you weren't going to explain who was #2, and this post, the reasons for you suspecting that person lessened. I'd be willing to believe that if one person had posted twice or something like that, giving reason for the decrease in suspicion. But perhaps I'm looking to much into that part.

[quote="Wulfy]You have done things that are town, but the vast majority of your play seems scummy to me. As for your "analytical posts," well...they arn't that good. So, I'm irrelevant. [/quote]

Whether or not you think they are "good" the fact is that I made them, they count as scumhunting, but you are just trying to discredit them by calling them irrelevant rather than accept a small defeat, which is what I assume you meant in that last sentence but instead came up with the hilarious typo "I'm irrelevant."

Regardless of whether they are good or not, you said I did not scumhunting. I bring to the table elements of my scumhunting, and you say "They don't count because they aren't good." Which is bologna. Scumhunting is scumhunting, especially in this case because you were saying I wasn't doing any period.

[semioldguy]

As of right now, I'm not going to explain who is on #2 on my scum list because, to be completely honest, it is a HUGE reach. So, I'm just leaving the person there until I get a chance to better review it (with a little hindsight day 2, hopefully.)

I don't like this. You are hiding information that could be helpful to the town based off the hope that you make it to day two. A town aligned player shouldn't withhold opinions at the end of the day because he thinks he will make it through the night, because we don't have control over whether or not we will make it to the next day. I'm not saying that I think you should reveal it now if you don't think it advantageous, but to say you are waiting until day two is just bad in my opinion.

Actually, telling you would just make me look stupid. And I'm not going to wait till day 2. In fact, I probably won't mention it as it gets dumber and dumber as the player posts. It isn't anti town to hold back useless information, and mostly irrelevant since its turned out to be complete garbage anyway.

Well, revealing who it is and then your explanation as for why you don't think that player seems guilty any more could be very helpful for the town. Otherwise I'm just inclined to disbelieve you that there was even a second suspect to begin with.

[Wulfy]

Actually, telling you would just make me look stupid. And I'm not going to wait till day 2. In fact, I probably won't mention it as it gets dumber and dumber as the player posts. It isn't anti town to hold back useless information, and mostly irrelevant since its turned out to be complete garbage anyway.

So, in the five posts between the time when you said you weren't going to explain who was #2, and this post, the reasons for you suspecting that person lessened. I'd be willing to believe that if one person had posted twice or something like that, giving reason for the decrease in suspicion. But perhaps I'm looking to much into that part.

No, I was in the process of looking over that person's post and realized I just misread the post that made me curious. It all matched up with the conversation, so I let it drop.

You have done things that are town, but the vast majority of your play seems scummy to me. As for your "analytical posts," well...they arn't that good. So, I'm irrelevant.

Whether or not you think they are "good" the fact is that I made them, they count as scumhunting, but you are just trying to discredit them by calling them irrelevant rather than accept a small defeat, which is what I assume you meant in that last sentence but instead came up with the hilarious typo "I'm irrelevant."

Oh? Is that not clear? I actually meant "I'm irrelevant [to you]." So, I didn't complete my thought since it is equivalent to arguing with a brick wall. You "don't care" so I'm not going to put forth much more effort in explaining myself to you. I'll watch you and still consider you, but I'm not going to defend my accusation of you TO you anymore.

Regardless of whether they are good or not, you said I did not scumhunting. I bring to the table elements of my scumhunting, and you say "They don't count because they aren't good." Which is bologna. Scumhunting is scumhunting, especially in this case because you were saying I wasn't doing any period.

Attacking those who attack you does not equal scum hunting. That equals losing your calm. First rule of gaming: No matter the circumstance, always act like your winning. Stay calm, be focused.

Semi: It is probably best to just assume I never had a second guy. It would be easier (not to explain away, but just because I had rather not have another "wow, I misread. Stupid me." moment. The good news is that I've learned not to say everything that comes to mind... but it did slip through with mentioning my scum list. I'll get better though!

[Percy]

How is jumping on two different wagons, one randomly and the other for scumminess, equal to a speed lynch? I said I didn't want you lynched. So I was not rushing to lynch someone.

Yes, but the important point is that you said that later. The first time you voted for me, it was simply "Diescumdie", which says to me that you

did

want me to die, and wanted me to die quickly.

I know you've now said it was an elaborate plan, but please see below.

I do not plan on quoting all my posts containing information, and neither did you. If you need me too, it is only because you are too lazy to go back and find them. If you have specific questions, that's fine, I'll go find them, but quoting all my posts would be ridiculous, as most are quite long.

It seems like you're avoiding the question I thought I made quite plain.

You voted for me without stating reasons. When people asked you for them, you said you withheld them for information gathering purposes. I asked: what information did you end up gathering?

Now you've said it should be clear from reading your posts, but I don't think it is. As far as I can tell, you have leapt on others for attacking you, and your analysis has been entirely divorced from the reactions you got. I'll make it really, really clear.

Looking at the reactions you got after withholding your reasons for voting me, whose were scummy reactions, and why?

I would prefer to go after the talking scum, because I can form arguments against them better because they have given me more material to work with. I'm more confident in my ability to go after the talkers than the non-talkers, just as I'm sure others prefer to go after lurkers.

I understand that it's hard to go after lurkers. It's a lot easier to go after the talkative players -

that's why lurking is a great scum strategy

. That's also why we can't let them get away with it. If you're not confident in your abilities, I suggest you practise, starting now.

As for Percy's post 187, people will think of me as a flake if I ask for replacement without a legitimate reason.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you're town. You're saying that it's more important that we all say "oh, at least he stuck it out!" while you're screwing us over with your scummy non-participation, than to say "this game is beyond my abilities, I'm going to replace out"?! No-one will think less of you if you can't handle this game, especially if it's because of a mental disorder that means you can't cope. People

will

think less of you if you bite off more than you can chew and end up getting yourself lynched out of bad play.

You're trying way too hard for the sympathy vote here. You need to be lynched.


Re: kirroha's claim.... if she's the actual vig then I will turbofacepalm.

I still am not convinced on the case against her - she's clearly been nervous and going to great lengths to prove her townieness, but I don't see her as a good lynch (compared to CJMiller, for example).

I say we let her live tonight. If she's scum, she'll get vigged*. If she's not, someone else will die, and we'll have verified her claim. If a scum gets shot, hooray! If town gets shot and there is no other kill, we lynch kirroha tomorrow as scum. If two town get shot, then kirroha will have to state her reasoning behind her kill exceptionally well tomorrow to avoid a lynch.

* - in the case where there is no town vig or there is a mafia doctor to protect her from the town vig, the fact that there is only one NK and she's alive the next day will immediately disprove her claim.

If she gets NKed and she's scum, we celebrate. If she gets NKed and she's town, we cry (but the result would have been the same if we lynch her today).

I think the proposal that she shoot herself is worthy of consideration. I think we should leave that up to kirroha's unfortunate replacement.


@semioldguy: You told kirroha not to full claim. She's at L-1, she's claimed (which I think is always a good thing to do, but you might disagree); how have your opinions of her changed since your votepost?

[kabenon007]

Ok, I didn't get that that was what you wanted. I thought you were going along the more Wulfy line of, "I don't see your valuable information, please quote all of it for me." I can do what you ask, although there isn't much, because as I am pretty sure I said, most of the information gathered Day 1 becomes useful Day 2 once one or more corpses have been identified and roles disclosed.

When I jumped on your wagon, the biggest thing I was looking for: people who would jump on my wagon after someone else got the ball rolling on me.

That reason is the reason I suspected Pablo, _over9000, and kirroha. Wulfy got the wagon going, and though I hated his playstyle, it wasn't the kind of reaction I was looking for and therefore didn't pursue. Pablo then voted for me, followed by kirroha, followed by _over9000. I bantered back and forth with Pablo and over9000 and liked what I got out our discussions, found them to be more town than kirroha, especially because she first jumped on Percy first, after I made my "Diescumdie" post, before jumping to me. If she were so suspicious of that, as she claims in her attacks on me when she votes, why did she vote Percy first, and then only once it became "acceptable" to jump on my wagon did she make her attack against me?

And the whole "Diescumdie" thing? I just like saying it, it makes the post seem heavier, and therefore it would (hopefully) garner more reactions. "Go wagon go" is also a favorite of mine. I knew it was a risky plan going into it, but it does do so much for the town. Look at all the discussion that's come out of it.

[semioldguy]

My opinions haven't changed much since my vote post and kirroha still didn't full claimed by the way, with there being possible vigilantes with a varying number of bullets (from 0 to 2). At the very least I think she should have either claimed having some bullets or no bullets as that would go a long way to both proving herself and being useful to the town. I am going to wait to hear from her replacement before making further judgment about her claim.

[semioldguy]

I don't think kirroha (or her replacement) should shoot herself.

[Sotty7]

Lot of good circumstantial evidence against kirroha - I see where everyone is coming from. My head is saying "scummy" but my gut tells me that she's town. It feels like one of those things where every time she opens her mouth now she just confirms everyone's suspicions that much more. (I realize that could be because she's been caught, but the day is still young - I reserve judgement for now)

Right now I'm liking the CJ Miller wagon. He seems like if he is scum, some well applied pressure will reveal some cracks, or make him shut up completely. Either one would be telling.

Vote: CJ Miller

This is a whole bunch of fence sitting on kirroha, you have one foot firmly in both camps. You go on to state you like the (easier?) CJ wagon... Why?

This question is loaded. It's an accusation masked as interrogation. You seem to be asking me why I had conflicted feelings about someone who I should have easily recognized as scum. That explanation is in my quote. Why am I not allowed to sit on the fence? I also explain why I put my vote on CJ Miller at that point. If you don't believe those explanations, that's fine. Then say that. (I will point out that CJ Miller was hardly the "easy" lynch at that point. Kirroha had more votes and more attention from the town, IMO. It's part of why I voted for CJ - I felt that he deserved at least as much, if not more pressure at that point.)

It's a question wanting an answer, it's not masked as anything. I wanted to know why you liked CJ's wagon at this point because you hadn't explained why you found him scummy in any kind of detail. Your vote seemed to be just pressure. Is that still the case?

When I say easy wagon, I mean that by CJ's posts in the thread to that point, he doesn't strike me as the hardest player to bandwagon at all. Your point about kirroha being the leading wagon/attention getter is true though. I don't like fence sitting because it allows you to quickly and easily modify your suspicions as the towns opinion changes.

In kirroha's 154 and 155 on page 7, she shifts gears from defending herself to attacking CJ. I didn't buy it. So many people had called her out for pointing out her own pro-town behaviour that this seemed like a very calculated change of tack to appear to be scum-hunting. Her 155 is a big long post that looks impressive, but instead dissects the posts of a player who basically hasn't said anything. There was no new information, unless you count the in-depth analysis of CJ's first post of the game. All of this felt like her trying to appear townie by filling up the page with words - words that hunt! I still think she's bussing. I'd still be happy to hammer, but I'd like her to claim first. She already soft claimed, we might as well get it out there.

Fair enough. What do you think of the claim?

I've been overwhelmed by homework this weekend, so I don't have anywhere near enough time to type out a full analysis. However, I have one major question:

Wulfy, why are all of your votes on people nobody else is voting for?

Why is that important?

The only issue I do have with Wulfy's voting style is that he earlier admitted that he voted for Iaaun simply for reactions. That strips the power of his vote away in my eyes and also allows Wulfy to claim “reactions” or “pressure” if people question him. However, his case and admittance that kabe is one of his top suspects does stop him from doing that in this case. Still the Iaaun vote was weird.

Re: kirroha's claim.... if she's the actual vig then I will turbofacepalm.

I still am not convinced on the case against her - she's clearly been nervous and going to great lengths to prove her townieness, but I don't see her as a good lynch (compared to CJMiller, for example).

I say we let her live tonight. If she's scum, she'll get vigged*. If she's not, someone else will die, and we'll have verified her claim. If a scum gets shot, hooray! If town gets shot and there is no other kill, we lynch kirroha tomorrow as scum. If two town get shot, then kirroha will have to state her reasoning behind her kill exceptionally well tomorrow to avoid a lynch.

* - in the case where there is no town vig or there is a mafia doctor to protect her from the town vig, the fact that there is only one NK and she's alive the next day will immediately disprove her claim.

If she gets NKed and she's scum, we celebrate. If she gets NKed and she's town, we cry (but the result would have been the same if we lynch her today).

I think the proposal that she shoot herself is worthy of consideration. I think we should leave that up to kirroha's unfortunate replacement.

Looking at the front page, the vig's can't target themselves in this game so that is out of the window.

The rest of this is valid though. At this point I simply don't believe her claim, I think she is scum and claiming vig is the perfect out for her. The most telling part about it is that she didn't claim how many bullets she has. Leaving that open gives her leeway to maneuverer and reduces the counterclaim possibility.

[CJMiller]

As for Percy's post 187, people will think of me as a flake if I ask for replacement without a legitimate reason.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you're town.

I AM TOWN.

You're saying that it's more important that we all say "oh, at least he stuck it out!" while you're screwing us over with your scummy non-participation, than to say "this game is beyond my abilities, I'm going to replace out"?! No-one will think less of you if you can't handle this game, especially if it's because of a mental disorder that means you can't cope. People

will

think less of you if you bite off more than you can chew and end up getting yourself lynched out of bad play.

You're trying way too hard for the sympathy vote here. You need to be lynched.

We are not amused.

[Artem]

Well, since I'm at L-1, I guess I might as well claim. I am a Vigilante. The number of shots I possess is not very important at this current moment. Sure, you all might think I'm just an SK who is pretending to be a Vig to prevent my own lynch, but this is not the case. I don't know if you all would believe me or not, but yes, I'm a Vig.

How is the number of bullets not important??! We need to know whether or not you're capable of doing anything at night.

I still am not convinced on the case against her - she's clearly been nervous and going to great lengths to prove her townieness, but I don't see her as a good lynch (compared to CJMiller, for example).

I say we let her live tonight. If she's scum, she'll get vigged*. If she's not, someone else will die, and we'll have verified her claim. If a scum gets shot, hooray! If town gets shot and there is no other kill, we lynch kirroha tomorrow as scum. If two town get shot, then kirroha will have to state her reasoning behind her kill exceptionally well tomorrow to avoid a lynch.

* - in the case where there is no town vig or there is a mafia doctor to protect her from the town vig, the fact that there is only one NK and she's alive the next day will immediately disprove her claim.

If she gets NKed and she's scum, we celebrate. If she gets NKed and she's town, we cry (but the result would have been the same if we lynch her today).

I think the proposal that she shoot herself is worthy of consideration. I think we should leave that up to kirroha's unfortunate replacement.

I like the lines of thinking, but it's not a foolproof plan as it doesn't account for a serial killer (which would give two night kills) or a mafia role-blocker.

Kirroha (or replacement) may claim to have been role-blocked to explain away a single night kill while being a mafia. Or Kirroha may really be a vig and gets role-blocked, causing us to waste a day 2 lynch on her. On the other hand, if I get targeted and not get a list in the morning, it's possible to disprove the "role-blocked" fake-claim (since the block would have landed on me), but it would require a collective effort as I won't know if I got no results due to nobody targeting me or due to a role-block.

The replacement should tell us the number of shots.

In terms of the big picture, I don't like the cases on CJ or on Kabe. So, if Kirr really is a vig, I'm somewhat stumped in terms of who else could be scum. All of the active players are giving off townie vibes. That may also mean that scum are hiding among the less-active players.

Unvote

while we're thinking of a good strategy to deal with the vig claim. I'm not completely happy with any of the ones proposed, and I think a Kirr lynch may still be a viable play.

[_over9000]

I still dont have time to put up a full post (I can promise one by Thursday at the latest) but I certainly feel like we need to put a good amount of pressure on Kirr's replacement. Now, I suspect Kirr more at this point, but I didn't want to hammer, so...

vote: kirroha