Mini 775 - Hammersmouth Is Under Attack! (Game over)

[kabenon007]

Now, as my suspect has changed to CJMiller due to kabenon's ability to show some good defense points, I will go and review his posts (or lack thereof) again.

Wait a sec... something doesn't seem right here to me...

I am attacking you right this instand, kabenon,

This was in her previous post... in which she is attacking me. I didn't say anything in between that post and the post in which she says I show good defense points. Nowhere did I get the impression that she thought any of my points were good, in fact it seemed like she was attacking me all the harder. Does anyone else find this suspicious, cuz I sure do.

[Wulfy]

Oh and also: I think it's weird why all the suspicions fell onto me just because of one single reason: I suspected Percy of buddying. That has long since been cleared in an earlier post, so please review it.

It hasn't been cleared. You explained the reasoning, but the scumminess of that aggression still exists and will continue to be a fact to reflect on later. You essentially did it to avoid a suspicion you received for doing the opposite in another game. This is more scum though process than town, as town would be more inclined to stick to their principles and view points where as scum would be more likely to do whatever they think is most town like.

Artem, to reiterate: I don't personally like kabe's own defense too much. Honestly, nothing can really defend the type of "diescumdie" post he made, and it makes me want him to be lynched very badly. So, I'd be inclined to defense kirr in her view of "You're scum. Prove otherwise." However, I would take the different approach of attacking Kabe, and after he's done enough to relieve my vote, I would probably watch him far more closely than others. (So, yes, I have already decided who I am watching closely and at what point their play meets the townieness level to be relieved of hawk like-unseen pressure.)

u to stop the flavour, just to add more content.

You're stupid. Read the conversation in context and you'd realize that Kirr provided the defense that she felt a need to pressure percy and vote him (despite being L-2) because in another game the town suspected her for NOT pressuring someone (further) just because the person was at L-2. I am speaking of the people in another game. My mind, therefore, didn't alter in the slightest.

Yes, thanks for this spirited defense, except that Semioldguy already pointed this out to me in his post 101, and I admitted that I had screwed it up in my post 104. Both posts were further up on Page 5, the same page that you posted this on. In fact, it's why I unvoted you.

Did you not see those posts? Or is this a content-free post, taking up space, trying to look aggressive and pro-town?

You're stupid, again, to have not yet realized that I type up a response as I read, thus the above is my immediate reaction. This is why I *hate* people defending me, but putting that aside.

I think the CJ thing, while true he has done little, is just a bunch of smoke. Assuming the all against CJ are town for this statement: I'll let the rest of the town worry about CJ, I'm sniffing somewhere else.

I take that back. Despite four votes against him, he blatantly ignores the accusations and bandwagons.

FoS CJ

Kabe's You may be on to something or Kirr could be a scatter brain. Both could be concluded from your deduction.

[kabenon007]

Honestly, nothing can really defend the type of "diescumdie" post he made, and it makes me want him to be lynched very badly. So, I'd be inclined to defense kirr in her view of "You're scum. Prove otherwise."

Isn't a "You're scum. Prove otherwise" post equivalent to a "Diescumdie" post? Both say about the same thing. Why do you believe her and not me?

Second, if nothing can defend against that post, then all that does is show me that your tunnelvisioned on me, not willing to listen to what I've got to say. If nothing can defend it, then you're being too closed-minded.

[Wulfy]

Honestly, nothing can really defend the type of "diescumdie" post he made, and it makes me want him to be lynched very badly. So, I'd be inclined to defense kirr in her view of "You're scum. Prove otherwise."

Isn't a "You're scum. Prove otherwise" post equivalent to a "Diescumdie" post? Both say about the same thing. Why do you believe her and not me?

Second, if nothing can defend against that post, then all that does is show me that your tunnelvisioned on me, not willing to listen to what I've got to say. If nothing can defend it, then you're being too closed-minded.

You clearly don't read whole posts. Otherwise, you'd realize I apply the same principle to everyone. I'm voting you because you haven't done anything to show how town you are. (ie, scum hunting) I feel as though many people, some of whom are probably scum, just decided to land on CJ who, although obscenely anti town, hasn't techinically done anything scummy. Has he been...anti town? Yeah... lazy townie possible? Definitely. Scummy?

ehh.... not really. By the book, wagon hopping for the sake of wagon hopping is scummy. And I understand that, as a prime suspect/ the current 3 town favorite, it can be difficult, but if you were to dig through the game and show significant, REAL scum hunting effort, your towniness will be picked up on, and I will naturally remove my vote. Suspicion of you, like it has on Kirr, will be with me until your dead, the game is over, or you are proven town enough (of 50% town, let's say) that I can give you the same cursory glance as everyone else.

Also, I don't quite believe Kirr other than I know townies who would act as the meta she semi presented would suggest, and I read here as a helpless townie/coniving scum. Just because I don't explicitly say I am watching a person doesn't mean I'm not. Besides, do you think you two (and CJ) are my only suspects?

Rule #3 of gaming: Hold you trump card till it can be the last play made.

[kirroha]

Vote: Kirroha for acting too scummy to be a citizen

CJ miller, you are pathetic.

I Unvoted kabenon and FoSed you, and then you voted for me. The OMGUS in there is way too obvious. Too scummy.

And yes, I'll make a full length post on your posts later on. If you want to say I'm scummy, give proof for goodness's sake.

Vote: CJMiller

[kirroha]

Okay, in this post I will be addressing quite a few points.

Firstly, I will give up trying to defend myself since it doesn't seem to be helping. Also, I want to help lynch scum with my full ability instead of sitting here on the defensive and doing nothing much except trying to prove that I'm not scum, which you all don't seem to believe.

Kabenon, if you want to know why I unvoted you and went for CJ - It's because CJ seems more suspicious than you. Not because you are any less suspicious. In all honesty, I think that you two might be scumbuddies. Still, I won't jump to conclusions (I've learnt my lesson with the Percy incident) and just fully concentrate on CJ right now, in all his scummy glory.

Vote: Percy

I don't need no stinkin' reason.

First, I am the type who likes concentrating a bit on the first post ever made on this site. So look at CJ's first post. It's a random vote, but look at the difference between his posts and the posts of others who had random voted:

My random votes are never random, merely arbitrary.

Vote: Percy

Hi everyone!

Vote: CJMiller

Because random voting is AWESOME!!!!

Everyone puts in their random votes with a small phrase behind or in front, and acts quite eager for the game. But CJ just pops in and says he "needs no stinkin' reason". Either he is just trying to be humorous or he is simply getting bored and thinks that the Day phase isn't very interesting (waiting for Night phase?).

But before anyone starts using this against me by saying I'm trying too hard to look Townie and find proof on CJ, I shall say that

This is not yet counted as proof

. I'm merely trying to analyze every single post that he has made.

Percy already has 3 votes. Not a L-x situation yet, but the hammer is a silent killer. Watch what you say, the mafia are everywhere.

Why do you warn somebody when you are the one who had voted for him? If you truly are worried about him being killed, you would have unvoted him. This shows that you clearly aren't being worried about him, and that you're 1) posting for the sake of posting, or 2) Trying to seem town by warning somebody about possible "threats".

I don't know why I said that, either.

Another one-liner. And many more. Artem asked you why you worried about Percy's lynch when you also voted for him, you claimed that you did not know. That is NOT a valid defense. Unless you tell us that you have split personality or amnesia, it is not very likely for you to forget about why you posted something, unless you posted it in your sleep. You're just not telling us why you did that.

Filler.

What? Sorry, didn't understand what it meant. Unless you're still posting for the sake of posting.

@Artem and Percy: I wanted to say something on-topic so I wouldn't be seen as a lurker.

Um, "filler" in on-topic? And you don't want to be seen as a lurker... how honest. Nobody has been accusing you of lurking yet. Why so defensive?

The question at the front of my mind: Who's tying Percy's noose?

You're one of the people who are tying Percy's noose, yet you kept pretending you aren't and pushing the blame on others. Is it because you know that Percy isn't scum, and is doing that lest Percy flips Town and you will get suspected? Is that true?

And you didn't exist from then onwards, until page 5. And guess what you posted? Yes, you guessed it.

Mod, vote count please.

Definitely posting for the sake of posting, or posting just not to be seen as lurking. But what are you doing? Are you posting any proper list of suspicions? You obviously aren't. You're just posting so that you'd seem less suspicious.

What do you want me to do? Whenever I do anything, it just makes you all think I'm scum.

Unvote because I will remain neutral for the rest of the day.

Wrong. Wrong. WRONG.

You never did anything. We think you're scum because of your lack of helpful actions, not because you make scummy actions.

And you said you want to remain neutral? This is the scummiest thing I've ever heard in my life. Trying to save your own butt and not risking yourself to help the Town. It's what scum would do keeping in hiding. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Confirm Vote CJMiller

Vote: Kirroha for acting too scummy to be a citizen

Oh, what happened to the "I will remain neutral for the rest of the day"? You jumped on me the instance you knew that many people had their eye on me. You took advantage on the fact and just tried to save your own butt. That's not what a townie should do. YOu're not helping the town. If you suspect me, say something! Definite OMGUS there. So why do you suspect me? Because I suspected you? Megaphail.

Seriously, I'm starting to think you are the type who plays Mafia on facebook a lot - you use the term "citizen", and you make lots and lots of one-liner posts. You are not helping anyone. Facebook has a different playing method from here.

That's all the messages you've ever posted. That's all. All of them one to two-liners.

I'm surprised why I didn't suspect you before kabenon. Kabenon's scumminess don't reach a quarter of yours.

[Percy]

Apologies everyone, uni work is kicking my arse.

I will post tomorrow.

[Tarballs]

5th Vote Count of Day 1

5 - CJMiller

(Percy, Farkshinsoup, Pablo Molinero, _over9000, kirroha)

4 - kirroha

(iamausername, semioldguy, kabenon007, CJMiller)

1 - kabenon007

(Wulfy)

2 - Not Voting

(Artem, Sotty7)


With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Deadline: May 12th, 2009

[semioldguy]

This is why I *hate* people defending me, but putting that aside.

Just to clarify I wasn't so much defending you as making a correction to what I saw as a mistake by another player, he clearly just missed something. I figure that by trying to set him straight sooner he would get his focus off of something meaningless and back to more important things. I can't know how long it would be for you to come and correct him and I feel that correcting people in cases where it is almost certain where something went wrong it is better to do it sooner rather than later.

[kirroha]

Huh? CJMiller had that many votes already? I didn't know... He only had 2 in the previous vote count. I guess things go fast. I thought I had more votes than him

for president

.

[Farkshinsoup]

Ok, my head just beat out my gut - I'm going to

FoS kirroha

. CJ Miller vs. Kirroha feels like bussing to me. I'd be happy at this point lynching either one of them.

[kirroha]

CJ Miller vs. Kirroha feels like bussing to me.

Feels like bussing? But you just said

Ok, my head just beat out my gut

"Feeling" is gut. Contradiction.

[iamausername]

Over has a whole 4 posts to his name, one jumping on a semi-popular wagon and mostly misinterpreting kabenon007's words even after kabenon's exchange with me had (I thought) cleared it up.

The reason I have so few posts is that it appears I am in a far different timezone that the rest of you (US Eastern). Therefore, while you guys are able to actively partake in heated debates in real time, I am forced to be active only when my schedule allows it, which does not fall into any of yours. So, my posts are directed at the entire day, and by the time im next on a whole new page has been posted.

I never like this whole "I'm in a different timezone" excuse; I don't think there's been a particularly significant amount of 'real time debate' in this game, so this just isn't valid.

That said, the player analysis that you've done so far definitely looks good.

Hey, hey.

Hi, Sotty! Are you scum again?

That's a WIFOM. He jumped on a wagon without thinking of the consequences.

I doubt it. Jumping on the first wagon you see without thinking and hoping for the best would be incredibly short-sighted scum play. Even on the off chance that no one noticed it at the time, and it lead to a town lynch on that day, it would certainly get him in trouble before the end of the game. kabenon's been on the site for 2 years, I'm pretty sure he has enouh experience to know what a stupid plan that would be.

I certainly think it's possible that kabenon is scum, but I think whatever his alignment, he definitely did think about the consequences of his Percy vote.

And don't you think it's weird, the way that he tried directing suspicion to me, who is the one who has the most number of votes at the current moment? That's very scummy to me.

I don't think it's weird for him to direct suspicion at a scummy player, no.

If you still don't believe me, then I think maybe I should claim.

You're not that close to being lynched. Claims are a last resort only.

Then look at it this way. If it's valid against me, why can't it be valid against him? If you choose to say what I used against him is invalid, what you used against me is also invalid.

It can't be used against him because he's not actually trying too hard to look town.

But that's not the point. Your defence when you've been accused of it has always been "It's not scummy, it's perfectly natural for town to want to look town". By using at as a point against kabenon, you're clearly saying that it

is

scummy to try too hard to look town, thus completely invalidating your own defence. You could have said "No, it's not scummy", you could have said "Yeah, OK, it is scummy, but look! kabenon's doing it too!" but you're trying to do both at once, and that just doesn't work. You can't have it both ways. Either it is scummy, or it isn't.

Anyway, currently I'm thinking of whether to claim or not. Because my role can serve to tell the scum about the setup pretty well.

Don't try to scare people away from your wagon with scummy softclaims.

What do you want me to do? Whenever I do anything, it just makes you all think I'm scum.

You haven't actually done anything yet, so how would you know?

Unvote

because I will remain neutral for the rest of the day.

*headdesk*

Vote: Kirroha

for acting too scummy to be a citizen

Do you actually think this, or are you just saying it because you saw other people saying something similar?

I feel as though many people, some of whom are probably scum, just decided to land on CJ who, although obscenely anti town, hasn't techinically done anything scummy. Has he been...anti town? Yeah... lazy townie possible? Definitely. Scummy?

ehh.... not really. By the book, wagon hopping for the sake of wagon hopping is scummy.

And what do you call that kirroha vote CJ just made, if not wagon hopping for the sake of wagon hopping?

CJ Miller vs. Kirroha feels like bussing to me. I'd be happy at this point lynching either one of them.

I honestly don't think CJ would be smart enough to think of bussing his partners. If he turns out be scum, that would go a long way to clearing kirroha in my eyes.

---

Players like CJ are incredibly frustrating, because it's pretty clear that he would be playing exactly the same useless way if he was town or scum, and the chances are that he's town, just because there's more town than scum (unless CJ is the mod, of course). But either way, he's never going to be of any help to town, and we can't afford to let him slide by, because he might be scum.

We've given him plenty of chances to get his act together and do something to help the town, and it's clearly not going to happen, so

Unvote, Vote: CJMiller

(THAT'S L-1, Y'ALL)

CJ, what I would like you to do in your next post is claim your role. Don't copy out the whole role PM or anything like that, just tell us the name of the role. It's in bold and a different colour to the rest of the text, it should be easy to find.

[kabenon007]

Kabenon, if you want to know why I unvoted you and went for CJ - It's because CJ seems more suspicious than you. Not because you are any less suspicious. In all honesty, I think that you two might be scumbuddies. Still, I won't jump to conclusions (I've learnt my lesson with the Percy incident) and just fully concentrate on CJ right now, in all his scummy glory.

And this only confirms my suspicions of you, kirroha. First you attack me. Then, after attacking me again, you say I made some "good defense points." Not that you were more suspicious of CJ. That I made some good defense points. That to me says, "Good job, you defended yourself well, my suspicion of you has gone down." Which was odd to say the least because it certainly didn't look like you thought I'd made good defense points. In fact, it looked like you were just trying to get off me and go for an easier target in CJ.

You seem awfully confident on CJ's scumminess. Everyone else so far who has voted for him has expressed concern that while he might be scum, he might also be crappy town. But you are quite sure of his scumminess... if someone asked me to call the game right now, I'd nail you two as scum buddies. You guys' exchange of "You're an idiot" and then voting each other seems more like feuding scumbuddies than anything else.

[CJMiller]

Seriously, I'm starting to think you are the type who plays Mafia on facebook a lot - you use the term "citizen", and you make lots and lots of one-liner posts. You are not helping anyone. Facebook has a different playing method from here.

I don't play Mafia on Facebook. I've never been on Facebook, and I never will.

I use the term "citizen" because "townie" sounds like something a 4-year-old will say.

Also, look this up. I have it, and I ain't much of a talker.

Vote: Kirroha CONFIRMED

[CJMiller]

Sorry, that should've been this.

[CJMiller]

Dammit, it still ain't working.

[kirroha]

CJ, I still think what you are saying makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You confirmed my vote because I thought that you might have played on facebook? How does that make me scummy, may I ask?

[CJMiller]

That ain't my problem.

[Farkshinsoup]

CJ - I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are telling the truth about having Asperger's Syndrome - mainly because I think it would be beyond despicable for someone to lie about that to win a Mafia game.

I'm not sure what to do with this information, though. I don't know enough about it to render any judgements. I REALLY DON'T WANT THIS TO TURN INTO A DEBATE ABOUT ASPERGER'S SYNDROME.

I'm going to treat you like any other player, I guess. There are certain skills that forum mafia inherently demands from you - writing is one of them. It's the same criteria I would bring up to someone whose written English was poor.

I can only judge by what I read on the page, and by your votes, and those still mark you as scum in my book.

If you really are town, please role claim - not sure why you did not do this in your posts above.

[Pablo Molinero]

Hrm. I am back from project-death for now. Huzzah.

CJ Miller vs. Kirroha feels like bussing to me.

How do you mean? Both as scum?

Good to see over9000 pick up the pace, too.

kirr, the speed at which you jumped off the kabe case right to popular CJ vote is just one of many similar leaps you've made in just 7 pages so far. I'm not a fan of this fast-and-loose reckless playstyle and and feels you're ust searching til you find something that sticks, kabe is making a lot of sense when noting the change in your attitudes just *flipping* at the drop of a hat. The only thing that saved you from my vote is that you only FoS'ed CJ after your unvote instead of immediately voting. The fairly useless OMGUSy vote from CJ makes you much more justified and further damns him. The defense of "I can't do anything that won't be made out to make me scum" is laughable.

to CJ:

If you really are town, please role claim - not sure why you did not do this in your posts above.

[CJMiller]

I certify under penalty of fraud that I have never been associated with the Mafia.

[CJMiller]

Also, I don't see the point in claiming. I just never do it.

[Artem]

I don't like that CJMiller accumulated so many votes in such a short period of time. It feels like scum are opportunistically jumping on an easy target. I think I have a slightly different view of him, because I was recently in a newbie game where CJMiller got lynched for the exact same playstyle and flipped town. I really don't want him in the endgame though.

I'm letting my actions speak for themselves, but obviously they failed to speak for themselves. That is why I explained. Clear enough?

Like I said earlier, the quote I gave was not your response to somebody "picking thing up and throwing them back at you". It was not a clarification of your actions that somebody thought were scummy. It was an unprecedented statement explaining that what you are about to do is pro-town. I also believe that it was before everybody started pointing out that you're trying too hard to be pro-town. Your unwillingness to understand this point is just mind-boggling.

Vote: Kirr

Also, you've pretty much soft-claimed so the mafia knows you are

a

power-role, which makes you just as much of a potential night target as a full claim. (But I'm leaning towards you being scum and trying to dissuade the town from pursuing you through a soft claim) In case you are town, my stance is that you should

not

claim. If the mafia want to know what your role is, they would have to NK you, freeing the town from spending a lynch on a scummy player.

Everyone puts in their random votes with a small phrase behind or in front, and acts quite eager for the game. But CJ just pops in and says he "needs no stinkin' reason". Either he is just trying to be humorous or he is simply getting bored and thinks that the Day phase isn't very interesting (waiting for Night phase?).

This is a real stretch. How can you possibly derive boredom with the day phase from the player's first post? The fact that you say that "before it's used against me... This is not yet counted as proof" means that you understand the ridiculousness of your argument as you're making it.

Your arguments against CJ are no better than the "You're scum. Prove otherwise." case against Kabe. You're not scum-hunting, you're trying to justify your spot on a convenient bandwagon.

I guess I'm fine with a CJ lynch, because if he flips town, Kirr's opportunistic vote-hop has already been pointed out and can be pursued the next day. But I'm keeping my vote on who I think is the scummiest.

--------------------------------

Question to both Kirr and CJMiller: What do you think of my claim? I believe you both ignored it entirely thus far. Why?

[CJMiller]

I don't see any possible link between a Self-Watcher and a regular citizen (myself).