Newbie 769 - Game Over

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

When you reconvene in the morning, Artem is conspicuously absent. You find him in his home, shot dead - another victim of the Mafia.

Artem,

Townie

, killed Night 1

Day 2 has begun. With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is the end of Monday, May 4th.

[Tenchi]

Shit is that the hammer? What the hell guys?

I think the quick hammer was a mistake on my part. I thought we had all D1 discussions done. Though I do think CJMiller gone is actually a good move for us since I would NEVER give him a free pass on making it to endgame.

[Toledo25]

I honestly don't feel bad for killing CJ; he was frankly being

way

to suspicious. At this point, I think that the majority of suspicion to Feeres has been eliminated with the lynching off CJMiller, since he was just a townie and Feeres would have no motivation to give him one less vote if Feeres was scum.

Also, the fact that the person who was NK (Artem) had only 1 vote on him interests me. This may point to Slaine Hayes as being a scum that was afraid of being chased by Artem. However, that's way too sloppy. Artem's reason summed up to be:

Vote: Slaine Hayes for stealing the second IC spot.

If a Mafia member tried to set us up, they'd have to make a pretty bad mistake to not notice that it was a random vote and that Artem was hardly suspicious of Slaine (unless I missed him saying that). This has led me to believe:

a.) it's a WIFOM (maybe Slaine did think that someone would notice, but then someone would figure that the scum would know that someone that, etc.)
b.) the scum were just sloppy in their reading, and relied heavily on post 148
c.) they don't want an IC to help the town (wimps!)
d.) the scum was under heavy pressure from Artem

This seems to match mostly with Feeres, since he didn't post until after CJ was suspicious at post 28 (I personally pay the most attention to bold text/votes when I come on and there's many new posts). Feeres was also under some fire by Artem. But then again, the majority of suspicion on Feeres was for his FoS rather than random vote, so he could just be a townie.

Hockey also replaced in, so he may have missed the first few posts. But he's not suspicious, and that's a weak argument.

[Hero764]

Alright, bad day 1. Lynching CJMiller was entirely not neccessary, but it was partly my fault so I won't talk much more about it. We're already down 2 townies though.

Hockeyruler (replaced atticusgresko during confirmation)
Tenchi
Feeres
Hero764
Toledo88
kikuchiyo
Slaine Hayes ^

Ok, so we know 2 of these guys are scum. Honestly, it could be anyone at this point. There isn't a single person on here who I am entirely not suspicious of(with the exception of of course, myself). I will say that in my mind Slaine Hayes looks pretty suspicious right now, but that's probably due to the fact that he's hardly posted at all. I can't really judge him properly. Tenchi and Hockey aren't looking so good either, seeing as they hammered CJ within like less than 30 minutes of eachother. I know this is probably too obvious a scum tell, but they could've been going for that, its a WIFOM right now.

[Hero764]

Though I do think CJMiller gone is actually a good move for us since I would NEVER give him a free pass on making it to endgame.

1. Could you clarify what you mean by the second part of the sentence(starting with since).

2. That's a really scummy thing to say. It is NEVER a good move to kill a townie.

[Feeres]

Lol, I would've unvoted when I saw you put him at L-1, Tenchi got there too fast. You said it yourself he probably wasn't mafia, and I can't see us getting any info now. That was more directed at Tenchi though I guess. We aren't even a week into the game and he goes and does that. Hell, two of the players have barely even posted yet. I was still waiting to see kuch's response to Feeres and how Toledo/Slaine analyzed the players and such. It was just far too early imo.

So, you didn't approve lynching him? Then why did you vote for him?

[Tenchi]

Though I do think CJMiller gone is actually a good move for us since I would NEVER give him a free pass on making it to endgame.

1. Could you clarify what you mean by the second part of the sentence(starting with since).

2. That's a really scummy thing to say. It is NEVER a good move to kill a townie.

With how he's acting, it's so easy to assume that he is a noob player. Town or scum I was not sure (In your post, point #2, you are assuming I knew he was town). Some people would give him a benefit of the doubt past D1 and just call him some newbie, but with the way he answered my questions, I have some strong doubts that he was town.

Whatever happened D1 or D2, I would have pushed for the lynch of CJMiller. Dealing with him is just full of WIFOM (is he new, or is he just acting?). I'd rather get it out now.

The mistake I made was ending it too soon. I'm quite surprised you are not questioning me for that.

[Hero764]

So, you didn't approve lynching him? Then why did you vote for him?

So he would answer the questions he was asked. If no one was voting for him he would've felt no need to answer. And no I don't approve of the lynch. There was barely any time between the L-1 vote and the hammer, which makes me suspicious of hockey and Tenchi at the moment.

With how he's acting, it's so easy to assume that he is a noob player. Town or scum I was not sure (In your post, point #2, you are assuming I knew he was town). Some people would give him a benefit of the doubt past D1 and just call him some newbie, but with the way he answered my questions, I have some strong doubts that he was town.

You said it like it was a good move even though everyone already knew he was town. How would that be a good move at all?

Whatever happened D1 or D2, I would have pushed for the lynch of CJMiller. Dealing with him is just full of WIFOM (is he new, or is he just acting?). I'd rather get it out now.

That's not what WIFOM is. And getting it out this early was a very scummy thing to do/bad mistake. We didn't have enough evidence to assume he wasn't just a noob. We still had plenty of time to decide on a lynch.

The mistake I made was ending it too soon. I'm quite surprised you are not questioning me for that.

Uhh, I have? Check post 153.

This post has caught my eye:

Is it okay to vote for CJ simply because I feel he isn't being helpful? I highly doubt hes mafia. He seems more... "Extremely newbish" and yet not voting for someone because of this seems like it would make it a very easy way for the mafia to "go about business".

He's trying to justify killing a townie(which he then goes on to defend). This is extremely scummy, enough to warrant

FoS: Hockeyruler

[Tenchi]

You said it like it was a good move even though [b.]everyone already knew he was town[/b]. How would that be a good move at all?

THIS IS A GROSS MISREPRESENTATION.

No one can be sure he was town (especially me), and with the way he was acting, I wouldn't be surprised if some people (like me) thought he could be scum.

=================

I checked 153 and yes you have questioned me on the timing.

[Tenchi]

BTW: That's two posts now misrepping me, telling us that I knew CJMiller was town before he flipped.

[Slaine Hayes]

Im going to have to agree with hero on hockey ruler and Tenchi being suspicious. There is a fairly good chance that at least one of the two is scum, and just used the confusion of Day 1 to blend in with the voters, knowing that we cannot just lynch everyone suspicious of CJMiller and be done with it.

On the other hand, if both hockey and Tenchi turn up town, we cannot really blame them-after all CJ

WAS

acting highly suspicious.

But to start some discussion, I would like Toledo to clarify a few points from post 152.

Also, the fact that the person who was NK (Artem) had only 1 vote on him interests me. This may point to Slaine Hayes as being a scum that was afraid of being chased by Artem. However, that's way too sloppy. Artem's reason summed up to be:

Vote: Slaine Hayes for stealing the second IC spot.

If a Mafia member tried to set us up, they'd have to make a pretty bad mistake to not notice that it was a random vote and that Artem was hardly suspicious of Slaine (unless I missed him saying that). This has led me to believe:

a.) it's a WIFOM (maybe Slaine did think that someone would notice, but then someone would figure that the scum would know that someone that, etc.)
b.) the scum were just sloppy in their reading, and relied heavily on post 148
c.) they don't want an IC to help the town (wimps!)
d.) the scum was under heavy pressure from Artem

Im not sure what you are getting at here- are you insinuating that if I was scum I should have voted for Artem because he was an IC but I was scared to do so because of his status?


Also, what points in hockeyruler's argument do you find weak?

[Hero764]

You said it like it was a good move even though [b.]everyone already knew he was town[/b]. How would that be a good move at all?

THIS IS A GROSS MISREPRESENTATION.

No one can be sure he was town (especially me), and with the way he was acting, I wouldn't be surprised if some people (like me) thought he could be scum.

What the hell? Are you being like this on purpose? You should know full well which post I was discussing, considering I QUOTED it in my post before, and it was in your post that I was directly responding to. For reference:

Though I do think CJMiller gone is actually a good move for us since I would NEVER give him a free pass on making it to endgame.

This was obviously posted after CJ flipped town, so explain that.

You're getting scummier every post.

[Toledo25]

Also, the fact that the person who was NK (Artem) had only 1 vote on him interests me. This may point to Slaine Hayes as being a scum that was afraid of being chased by Artem. However, that's way too sloppy. Artem's reason summed up to be:

Vote: Slaine Hayes for stealing the second IC spot.

If a Mafia member tried to set us up, they'd have to make a pretty bad mistake to not notice that it was a random vote and that Artem was hardly suspicious of Slaine (unless I missed him saying that). This has led me to believe:

a.) it's a WIFOM (maybe Slaine did think that someone would notice, but then someone would figure that the scum would know that someone that, etc.)
b.) the scum were just sloppy in their reading, and relied heavily on post 148
c.) they don't want an IC to help the town (wimps!)
d.) the scum was under heavy pressure from Artem

Im not sure what you are getting at here- are you insinuating that if I was scum I should have voted for Artem because he was an IC but I was scared to do so because of his status?

No, I was thinking that a rather clumsy scum might have night killed Artem to make the town believe you wanted him dead since Artem voted for you. But they'd have to be pretty oblivious to the previous conversation and only have looked at post 148 (final tally for Day 1) to think he was after you. Sorry if I'm making this difficult to understand -.-

Also, what points in hockeyruler's argument do you find weak?

No, I was saying MY argument was weak for considering Hockeyruler, since it realied only on him being a replacement that came page 3ish (don't know exact page). I'm just saying whatever comes to mind that is rational.

[Tenchi]

Though I do think CJMiller gone is actually a good move for us since I would NEVER give him a free pass on making it to endgame.

This was obviously posted after CJ flipped town, so explain that.

You're getting scummier every post.

Two points here:

1. I wrote that in context of your WHAT THE HELL post. I feel I didn't explain myself properly in D1.
2. I am worried that him being a newbie would give him a pass on not answering my questions and blurring all associations he may have, which kills this game if he's scum. Also, on the chance he's town, he's the perfect guy to bring along for scum, I am not going to let that happen.

To summarize, I don't regret lynching him. But I do regret hammering early.

[Hero764]

1. What? You already did explain yourself in the post I quoted by saying that lynching CJMiller(a townie) was a good move. Responding to my what the hell post was unneeded. And if you were responding to my earlier post why quote my other one? Quit contradicting yourself.

2. So you're saying you would rather lynch a newbie than lynch scum?

Shit's just not adding up.

Vote: Tenchi

[Tenchi]

1. What? You already did explain yourself in the post I quoted by saying that lynching CJMiller(a townie) was a good move. Responding to my what the hell post was unneeded. And if you were responding to my earlier post why quote my other one? Quit contradicting yourself.

1. You don't dictate what is unneeded or not.
2. I quoted the right text (see post 151).

2. So you're saying you would rather lynch a newbie than lynch scum?

Shit's just not adding up.

Vote: Tenchi

Now this is worse. I have never said I'd rather lynch a newbie rather than lynch scum. I said I'd rather lynch a suspicious person rather than giving them a free pass because they are new.

Your statements are a stretch. And lying over and over again does not make it true.

Vote: Hero764

[Hockeyruler]

This post has caught my eye:

Is it okay to vote for CJ simply because I feel he isn't being helpful? I highly doubt hes mafia. He seems more... "Extremely newbish" and yet not voting for someone because of this seems like it would make it a very easy way for the mafia to "go about business".

He's trying to justify killing a townie(which he then goes on to defend). This is extremely scummy, enough to warrant

FoS: Hockeyruler

I understand your suspicion. Yet after I defended him I put in the:

and yet not voting for someone because of this seems like it would make it a very easy way for the mafia to "go about business".

Which atleast to me is way more important than someone being/seeming newbish. The way he posted or acted was EXTREMELY unhelpful in a newbish way. It comes of mostly as being new, yet any mafia can easily act that way. It just seems as if we'd eventually have to lynch him.

I'm not sure I'm making much sense. Sorry I'll try again...

CJ was posting very little and most of it was unhelpful or not thought through. This immediatly makes him look like a new player who might or might not be mafia. However, there is also the chance that he is infact a mafia simply acting that way so as to not get votes simply because he seems newbish.

I hope that makes sense.

As too me or Tenchi being mafia because of how fast we both lynched him. You can notice that my post before my vote post was talking about CJ being highly unproductive and wondering if that was generally an acceptable reason to lynch someone. Then with his next post saying that he short circuited the sun... well it just seemed above and beyond useless.

I do now regret having that lynch that fast. It did lead to us not getting info. Yet I think it can honestly be argued that it had to happen sometime or other.

[Tenchi]

I need to chill.

Unvote

But I have my eye on you.

[Hockeyruler]

2. So you're saying you would rather lynch a newbie than lynch scum?

Shit's just not adding up.

Vote: Tenchi

I can explain this one pretty easily, CJ was not helping us. And inevetibly if he didn't change he would have gotten lynched.

Most of the time we WILL lynch the wrong person, however thats not to say it was a waste, lynching CJ wasn't a waste, he wasn't being productive and that in turn is unhelpful, which in turn is scummy (okay, maybe a stretch). Anyways, the lynching wasn't the bad part, it was that it was so fast.

[kikuchiyo]

I honestly don't feel bad for killing CJ; he was frankly being way to suspicious. At this point, I think that the majority of suspicion to Feeres has been eliminated with the lynching off CJMiller, since he was just a townie and Feeres would have no motivation to give him one less vote if Feeres was scum.

Am I the only one who saw this? Why are you "clearing" Feeres so soon(or at all)? Do you not see how scum could benefit by not lynching a townie? Sorry for the double negative, but I find it highly suspicious that you would begin day 2 virtually clearing someone who is obviously not beyond suspicion.

FoS: Toledo

Tenchi: I don't understand why you felt the need to lynch so soon. Were you not paying attention to peoples posting patterns?

Vote: Tenchi

For the early hammer and the corresponding omgus attack on Hero.

[Hero764]

1. What? You already did explain yourself in the post I quoted by saying that lynching CJMiller(a townie) was a good move. Responding to my what the hell post was unneeded. And if you were responding to my earlier post why quote my other one? Quit contradicting yourself.

1. You don't dictate what is unneeded or not.
2. I quoted the right text (see post 151).

1. I already explained why it was unneeded, so if you think it wasn't you should argue with what I said rather just say "lol can't do that!"
2. Again - why the hell are you doing this? We weren't discussing post 151 AT ALL, and you knew that full well.

2. So you're saying you would rather lynch a newbie than lynch scum?

Shit's just not adding up.

Vote: Tenchi

Now this is worse. I have never said I'd rather lynch a newbie rather than lynch scum.

I said I'd rather lynch a suspicious person rather than giving them a free pass because they are new.

Your statements are a stretch. And lying over and over again does not make it true.

Vote: Hero764

[/quote]Read bold: You're still saying you'd lynch someone over scum.

I'm about 90% sure you're scum now.

@hockeyruler: My problem is that you admitted yourself that you highly doubt he's mafia, yet you go on to justify killing him anyway. The only way killing a townie would be a good move is if you are scum. The fact that you ignore this in your defense makes you look a lot worse.

CJ was posting very little and most of it was unhelpful or not thought through. This immediatly makes him look like a new player who might or might not be mafia. However, there is also the chance that he is infact a mafia simply acting that way so as to not get votes simply because he seems newbish.

But you already said you highly doubt he's in the mafia. Why are you only now bringing this up as a possibility?

I do now regret having that lynch that fast. It did lead to us not getting info. Yet I think it can honestly be argued that it had to happen sometime or other.

Why would you think that if you thought it was highly unlikely he was scum?

Tenchi and hockeyruler are looking like plausible scumbuddies ATM. I'd like to see what others have to say about all of this.

[Tenchi]

1. What? You already did explain yourself in the post I quoted by saying that lynching CJMiller(a townie) was a good move. Responding to my what the hell post was unneeded. And if you were responding to my earlier post why quote my other one? Quit contradicting yourself.

1. You don't dictate what is unneeded or not.
2. I quoted the right text (see post 151).

1. I already explained why it was unneeded, so if you think it wasn't you should argue with what I said rather just say "lol can't do that!"
2. Again - why the hell are you doing this? We weren't discussing post 151 AT ALL, and you knew that full well.

2. So you're saying you would rather lynch a newbie than lynch scum?

Shit's just not adding up.

Vote: Tenchi

Now this is worse. I have never said I'd rather lynch a newbie rather than lynch scum.

I said I'd rather lynch a suspicious person rather than giving them a free pass because they are new.

Your statements are a stretch. And lying over and over again does not make it true.

Vote: Hero764

Read bold: You're still saying you'd lynch someone over scum.

I'm about 90% sure you're scum now.
[/quote]

REPEATING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE.

DO YOU THINK I KNEW CJMILLER WOULD TURN UP TOWNIE?

. I know that timing was wrong but I certainly didn't want to let my number one suspect just pass by.

I think here is you want me to somehow say that I was 100% sure that he's scum. He's was not. And I am not falling for it.

Vote: Hero

[Tenchi]

OK look. In case I get hit over by a bus or something (or if I go D2, which I expect), please review my conversation here with Hero and see what is he trying to put into my mouth.

[Toledo25]

I honestly don't feel bad for killing CJ; he was frankly being way to suspicious. At this point, I think that the majority of suspicion to Feeres has been eliminated with the lynching off CJMiller, since he was just a townie and Feeres would have no motivation to give him one less vote if Feeres was scum.

Am I the only one who saw this? Why are you "clearing" Feeres so soon(or at all)? Do you not see how scum could benefit by not lynching a townie? Sorry for the double negative, but I find it highly suspicious that you would begin day 2 virtually clearing someone who is obviously not beyond suspicion.

FoS: Toledo

No, I'm not saying that ALL suspicion of Feeres is gone. If he had in fact voted for CJ, then it would have looked like he wanted a quick kill and prevent information from coming. Though I can see why you still have doubts about Feeres; it might have just been a plot to make CJ look more suspicious the next day if he wasn't lynched.


Also at this point, I'm forced to believe that either Tenchi or Hero is scum. Not sure which one is more reasonable and which is scummy though. It should become clearer over the next few real days.

[Hero764]

1. What? You already did explain yourself in the post I quoted by saying that lynching CJMiller(a townie) was a good move. Responding to my what the hell post was unneeded. And if you were responding to my earlier post why quote my other one? Quit contradicting yourself.

1. You don't dictate what is unneeded or not.
2. I quoted the right text (see post 151).

1. I already explained why it was unneeded, so if you think it wasn't you should argue with what I said rather just say "lol can't do that!"
2. Again - why the hell are you doing this? We weren't discussing post 151 AT ALL, and you knew that full well.

2. So you're saying you would rather lynch a newbie than lynch scum?

Shit's just not adding up.

Vote: Tenchi

Now this is worse. I have never said I'd rather lynch a newbie rather than lynch scum.

I said I'd rather lynch a suspicious person rather than giving them a free pass because they are new.

Your statements are a stretch. And lying over and over again does not make it true.

Vote: Hero764

Read bold: You're still saying you'd lynch someone over scum.

I'm about 90% sure you're scum now.

REPEATING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE.

DO YOU THINK I KNEW CJMILLER WOULD TURN UP TOWNIE?

. I know that timing was wrong but I certainly didn't want to let my number one suspect just pass by.

I think here is you want me to somehow say that I was 100% sure that he's scum. He's was not. And I am not falling for it.

Vote: Hero

[/quote]You completely ignored half of my post dealing with your obvious inconsistencies and instead proceeded to freak out over one sentence, dedicating your entire post to that. I'll admit though that I misinterpreted that sentence I bolded terribly. Rereading it I see that you meant something entirely different, so I apologize for that. Still, I'd like to focus on your hammer vote a little more, since I still feel you didn't explain it very well, and I still want a response to the other half of my post.

And yes, I do think you knew CJMiller would turn up townie, hence my vote on you. And there's a major difference between letting him pass by and putting the hammer on him. Especially when it hadn't even been a half hour since he was placed at L-1.

Let's examine this post(again...):

I think the quick hammer was a mistake on my part. I thought we had all D1 discussions done. Though I do think CJMiller gone is actually a good move for us since I would NEVER give him a free pass on making it to endgame.

1) You've played other games on this site, you should know very well that once someone gets to L-1 there's usually a discussion as for what to do about it. You barely gave anyone a chance to respond.
2) Again, IT IS NEVER A GOOD MOVE TO LYNCH A TOWNIE. Unless of course, you're scum, which you probably are.