Newbie 769 - Game Over

[Slaine Hayes]

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to address the other questions.

I do not think CJ is scum, I am only recongizing the possiblility that he is.

He has been wishy-washy with his voting, which could either be scummy or newbieness.

But, as I said, I am leaving my vote on for now

[Tenchi]

That's simply how you interpreted it. And how exactly would that cover the tracks? I think the people in this thread are smart enough to discuss more than one thing at once.

Fine. Then discuss away.

Also:

cover the tracks of other scummy things happening.

Such as what, exactly?

Dunno, the CJ Case, which is still unanswered BTW.

[Artem]

Yes, I found him suspicious mainly because he seemed to act in a very odd way for a townie. I did not want to vote for him because I was iffy on whether it's time to random vote still or not, exactly because all votes on him haven't been random. I do not find him vote worthy yet because I read his actions more like inexperienced town rather than mafia. Depending on the answer to the questions by Tenchi, I will either vote or not vote for him.

I don't find any votes on him suspicious. In the opinion of those who have already voted for him, the current evidence is enough. It's just that I'm not that easily convinced.

I think we need to pursue this a little more. I find this to be a strange combination of a desire to randomly vote and an FoS on CJ.

You say that you randomly picked a target for your random vote and when that target ended up being somebody already with votes, you FoSd instead. Then you say that FoS was due to your suspicion of CJ. My question is:

Which is it? Are you FoSing CJ because that's what your random vote target was OR are you FoSing CJ because you suspect him? If it's the second one, then why do you feel the need to vote randomly when you find somebody suspicious?

[Artem]

I want CJMiller to answer my questions.

Ditto.

[Tenchi]

Which is it? Are you FoSing CJ because that's what your random vote target was OR are you FoSing CJ because you suspect him? If it's the second one, then why do you feel the need to vote randomly when you find somebody suspicious?

I had some similar issues with this in my other game, especially that an IC did it. If you vote, and if a reason changes with that vote, you must state it.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Slaine Hayes - 1 (Artem)
Hero764 - 2 (CJMiller, Tenchi)
Tenchi - 1 (kikuchiyo)

CJMiller - 3 (Slaine Hayes, Hero764, Toledo88)

Not Voting - 2 (Feeres, Hockeyruler)

5 to Lynch

[Toledo25]

Just as a heads-up people, I'm probably not going to be on much tomorrow night through Sunday. My mom's friend's family is coming over from New Jersey for Easter, so I doubt I'll be able to get on much. Though I should be able to get on a bit tomorrow. Just saying this so you don't think I've gone inactive.

[Feeres]

I think we need to pursue this a little more. I find this to be a strange combination of a desire to randomly vote and an FoS on CJ.

You say that you randomly picked a target for your random vote and when that target ended up being somebody already with votes, you FoSd instead. Then you say that FoS was due to your suspicion of CJ. My question is:

Which is it? Are you FoSing CJ because that's what your random vote target was OR are you FoSing CJ because you suspect him? If it's the second one, then why do you feel the need to vote randomly when you find somebody suspicious?

I "randomly voted" CJMiller before reading the thread, then I read through what had been posted earlier. So I changed my vote to FoS because he was my random vote target, and he had already votes on him which weren't exactly random. I only suspect him of being newbie atm, before he posts more I'm saying he's like 50-50 scum.

I specifically held off from voting him randomly because of other votes on him. A bit offtopic question, is there some recommended way of randomly voting? Like, pick a random target from the list, check he hasn't gotten votes yet, if he has been voted already then find someone else?

[Tenchi]

I want the IC to answer that ^

and this: what's the difference of being noob and noob scum. I had trouble with this last Newbie game I had. And I think I'm having the same trouble right now. Too many newbie mistakes being done, the question is, if it is a tell of anything.

[CJMiller]

I think SH is trying to kill me off because he voted for me because I was trying to make sense of what was going on (this is my first game, after all) and that caused me to change my vote twice.

I think Hero is acting suspicious because when people act like he's acting, they're hiding something.

[Tenchi]

I think SH is trying to kill me off because he voted for me because I was trying to make sense of what was going on (this is my first game, after all) and that caused me to change my vote twice.

But that doesn't imply that he wants to kill off "new players".

I think Hero is acting suspicious because when people act like he's acting, they're hiding something.

Kindly rephrase. Too much pronoun use.

[kikuchiyo]

I think SH is trying to kill me off because he voted for me because I was trying to make sense of what was going on (this is my first game, after all) and that caused me to change my vote twice.

But that doesn't imply that he wants to kill off "new players".

If you are not going to allow CJ an explanation, then why do you ask him for one? You are ignoring CJ's perception here. Not to say that I believe him, necessarily, but your approach to this conflict seems already biased.

please explain why you feel CJ is not justified in feeling threatened when someone votes him.

in the meantime,

unvote, vote feeres

.

Your explanation would make sense if you had random voted and then later switched to an FoS. But you random voted in the same post in which you expressed suspicion of someone. This doesn't add up. Not sure if it is scummier for you to have voted, but it seems like you are trying to avoid suspicion yourself, yet setting up a future CJ vote. Smells fishy.

[Tenchi]

I think SH is trying to kill me off because he voted for me because I was trying to make sense of what was going on (this is my first game, after all) and that caused me to change my vote twice.

But that doesn't imply that he wants to kill off "new players".

If you are not going to allow CJ an explanation, then why do you ask him for one? You are ignoring CJ's perception here. Not to say that I believe him, necessarily, but your approach to this conflict seems already biased.

please explain why you feel CJ is not justified in feeling threatened when someone votes him.

I'm not questioning him for him feeling threatened.

I'm questioning his reasons for suspecting SH, since he said SH was "trying to kill off the new players".

[Hockeyruler]

This serves absolutely no purpose:

He has a valid point. Also,if we don't vote and all do "No Lynch", then Day 2 will just be a Day 1 minus a townie. Once there is information, then it won't be random votings.

We would still have information about the nk, but I do agree that no-lynch should be avoided.

My random vote technique gave me CJMiller as target, but at this point I'd just

FOS CJMiller

Hero does seem suspicious, defensive/passive play smells scummy. But I'd be willing to believe he's just a townie who wants to save as many townies as possible.

As you say again here:

I "randomly voted" CJMiller before reading the thread, then I read through what had been posted earlier. So I changed my vote to FoS because he was my random vote target, and he had already votes on him which weren't exactly random. I only suspect him of being newbie atm, before he posts more I'm saying he's like 50-50 scum.

To my knowledge FOS does absolutely nothing except mean that you're looking at somebody closely. And random votes are specifically used to get discussion going. So therefore FOSing somebody as a substitute to random voting is just scummy. Random Voting is used to start discussions. If for some reason you don't want to random vote you should discuss the current random votes and whats going on. Placing a FOS on somebody as a substitute makes no sense! Maybe I could have understood it if you had given some reasons why. Yet placing a FOS just because you were randomly told to do so. That just adds pressure unnecesarily, and for apparently no real reason.

Vote: Feeres

[Hero764]

in the meantime, unvote, vote feeres.

Your explanation would make sense if you had random voted and then later switched to an FoS. But you random voted in the same post in which you expressed suspicion of someone. This doesn't add up. Not sure if it is scummier for you to have voted, but it seems like you are trying to avoid suspicion yourself, yet setting up a future CJ vote. Smells fishy.

You've got to be kidding. There's nothing wrong with Feeres' post at all, I don't see where people are getting that from. And how is putting FoS on someone scummy in the slightest? He generated a random number, it matched CJMiller, and then when he read through the thread he realized he didn't want to place another vote on CJMiller(which he explained) so he didn't. After reading through the thread however, he realized he was still suspicious of CJMiller's behavior(as others are) so put an FoS on him. It's as simple as that.

I think Hero is acting suspicious because when people act like he's acting, they're hiding something.

You really suck at explanations, you know?

To my knowledge FOS does absolutely nothing except mean that you're looking at somebody closely. And random votes are specifically used to get discussion going. So therefore FOSing somebody as a substitute to random voting is just scummy. Random Voting is used to start discussions. If for some reason you don't want to random vote you should discuss the current random votes and whats going on. Placing a FOS on somebody as a substitute makes no sense! Maybe I could have understood it if you had given some reasons why. Yet placing a FOS just because you were randomly told to do so. That just adds pressure unnecesarily, and for apparently no real reason.

You badly misinterpreted his post I think. Read my explanation above.

[Tenchi]

Unvote

[Hockeyruler]

You've got to be kidding. There's nothing wrong with Feeres' post at all, I don't see where people are getting that from. And how is putting FoS on someone scummy in the slightest? He generated a random number, it matched CJMiller, and then when he read through the thread he realized he didn't want to place another vote on CJMiller(which he explained) so he didn't. After reading through the thread however, he realized he was still suspicious of CJMiller's behavior(as others are) so put an FoS on him. It's as simple as that.

To my knowledge FOS does absolutely nothing except mean that you're looking at somebody closely. And random votes are specifically used to get discussion going. So therefore FOSing somebody as a substitute to random voting is just scummy. Random Voting is used to start discussions. If for some reason you don't want to random vote you should discuss the current random votes and whats going on. Placing a FOS on somebody as a substitute makes no sense! Maybe I could have understood it if you had given some reasons why. Yet placing a FOS just because you were randomly told to do so. That just adds pressure unnecesarily, and for apparently no real reason.

You badly misinterpreted his post I think. Read my explanation above.

As I specificaly said in my post. Instead of voting (which would have been ridiculously scummy, as in only a stupid person would do) for CJ miller, he instead FOS'd him, and as you can see when I quoted him. He did not list a reason aside from "This would have been my random vote" And as I said, since random voting is used to make discusion. FOSing somebody already random voted without giving a reason is completely useless.

Yes he did say in a later post:

I only suspect him of being newbie atm, before he posts more I'm saying he's like 50-50 scum.

So this does:

1. Not give us any insight of what Feeres thinks of CJmiller besides being "scummy"
2. Does not describe why he is scummy
3. Says he only suspects him of being a newbie

for crying out loud, if you don't have a reason to think hes scum, and you also suspect him of being a newbie. Why the FOS? Why not just say something about his "newbishness"?

Yes, I found him suspicious mainly because he seemed to act in a very odd way for a townie. I did not want to vote for him because I was iffy on whether it's time to random vote still or not, exactly because all votes on him haven't been random. I do not find him vote worthy yet because I read his actions more like inexperienced town rather than mafia. Depending on the answer to the questions by Tenchi, I will either vote or not vote for him.

I don't find any votes on him suspicious. In the opinion of those who have already voted for him, the current evidence is enough. It's just that I'm not that easily convinced.

@Artem, I'd think he figured out that if he is a townie, his power is his vote, therefore he should use it as much as possible. I'm thinking he's not all too experienced, I want his answer to the questions so I can make my own decision on that. The more I read, the more sure it seems he would be an inexperienced mafia, so I'd be more than happy if I got more material from him.

This post also, in the end says that he thinks of him more as inexperienced rather than scummy. So then why a FOS?

[kikuchiyo]

You've got to be kidding. There's nothing wrong with Feeres' post at all, I don't see where people are getting that from. And how is putting FoS on someone scummy in the slightest? He generated a random number, it matched CJMiller, and then when he read through the thread he realized he didn't want to place another vote on CJMiller(which he explained) so he didn't. After reading through the thread however, he realized he was still suspicious of CJMiller's behavior(as others are) so put an FoS on him. It's as simple as that.

Why did he bother to generate the random number if he found someone suspicious? I never said placing an FoS on someone is "scummy". That is a bold misrepresentation of why I am voting for Feeres at the moment. Also, please let him answer to this for himself. What reason do you have to defend Feeres?

[Tenchi]

in the meantime, unvote, vote feeres.

Your explanation would make sense if you had random voted and then later switched to an FoS. But you random voted in the same post in which you expressed suspicion of someone. This doesn't add up. Not sure if it is scummier for you to have voted, but it seems like you are trying to avoid suspicion yourself, yet setting up a future CJ vote. Smells fishy.

You've got to be kidding. There's nothing wrong with Feeres' post at all, I don't see where people are getting that from. And how is putting FoS on someone scummy in the slightest? He generated a random number, it matched CJMiller, and then when he read through the thread he realized he didn't want to place another vote on CJMiller(which he explained) so he didn't. After reading through the thread however, he realized he was still suspicious of CJMiller's behavior(as others are) so put an FoS on him. It's as simple as that.

I think the issue is whether Feeres agrees with the following equation:

Random Vote == FoS (instead of vote during a critical time)

[Tenchi]

You've got to be kidding. There's nothing wrong with Feeres' post at all, I don't see where people are getting that from. And how is putting FoS on someone scummy in the slightest? He generated a random number, it matched CJMiller, and then when he read through the thread he realized he didn't want to place another vote on CJMiller(which he explained) so he didn't. After reading through the thread however, he realized he was still suspicious of CJMiller's behavior(as others are) so put an FoS on him. It's as simple as that.

Why did he bother to generate the random number if he found someone suspicious? I never said placing an FoS on someone is "scummy". That is a bold misrepresentation of why I am voting for Feeres at the moment. Also, please let him answer to this for himself. What reason do you have to defend Feeres?

He is not defending Feeres. He is questioning why you are suspecting Feeres for reasons he find null-tells.

[Tenchi]

Disregard post 93. I find post 92 of kikuchiyo a better explanation.

[Hero764]

As I specificaly said in my post. Instead of voting (which would have been ridiculously scummy, as in only a stupid person would do) for CJ miller, he instead FOS'd him, and as you can see when I quoted him. He did not list a reason aside from "This would have been my random vote" And as I said, since random voting is used to make discusion. FOSing somebody already random voted without giving a reason is completely useless.

Well that could simply be a mistake/posting error. He probably found the reasons already stated to be enough for grounds of his suspicion, but not enough to place a vote(which he did state). I'm willing to bet he just forget to include that in his post/thought it wasn't necessary. It shouldn't point to him being scum.

Why did he bother to generate the random number if he found someone suspicious? I never said placing an FoS on someone is "scummy". That is a bold misrepresentation of why I am voting for Feeres at the moment. Also, please let him answer to this for himself. What reason do you have to defend Feeres?

Of course I'm going to let him answer it himself, I'm just trying to understand your logic here. And I think you missed the part where he said he generated the random number BEFORE reading the thread:

[quote="Feeres"

]I "randomly voted" CJMiller before reading the thread, then I read through what had been posted earlie

r. So I changed my vote to FoS because he was my random vote target, and he had already votes on him which weren't exactly random. I only suspect him of being newbie atm, before he posts more I'm saying he's like 50-50 scum.

I specifically held off from voting him randomly because of other votes on him. A bit offtopic question, is there some recommended way of randomly voting? Like, pick a random target from the list, check he hasn't gotten votes yet, if he has been voted already then find someone else?[/quote]

[Hockeyruler]

As I specificaly said in my post. Instead of voting (which would have been ridiculously scummy, as in only a stupid person would do) for CJ miller, he instead FOS'd him, and as you can see when I quoted him. He did not list a reason aside from "This would have been my random vote" And as I said, since random voting is used to make discusion. FOSing somebody already random voted without giving a reason is completely useless.

Well that could simply be a mistake/posting error. He probably found the reasons already stated to be enough for grounds of his suspicion, but not enough to place a vote(which he did state). I'm willing to bet he just forget to include that in his post/thought it wasn't necessary. It shouldn't point to him being scum.

I now honestly don't know if I find you more scummy now or him. For one thing this is quite unnecessary to defend someone especialy when they are on L-3. And I never even saw kikuchiyo's vote until after I posted because it took a while to gather all of my quotes. So I wasn't trying to gang up on him.

Now you're defending him on the facts that he made a mistake/posting error?!? Am I now supposed to not only analyze posts for what hidden motives they might. But also every other possible hidden motive if something was a mistake? It also makes no sense, since I have quoted atleast 2 posts of him saying that CJ just seems more "newbiesh". Yes, Feeres has said he found CJ suspicious. But as you can see here:

I only suspect him of being newbie atm, before he posts more I'm saying he's like 50-50 scum.

Which says quite specificaly "I only suspect him of being newbie atm". And as this is his most recent post. Its the one we should follow right?

I'm just really finding it hard to give you any MORE reasons why Feeres is doing things that don't make sense to me.

[Hero764]

It isn't about a hidden motive, it's the logical/probably motive. I'm not defending him, he could be scum for all I know, but not because of the reasons you guys are suggesting. Those just seem over the top and a bit ridiculous imo.

And I love how every time I do something except stay quiet someone else accuses me of being scummy.

[Hero764]

Whoops, missed the bottom part of your post. Anyways, he said 50-50 scum, so its half both ways. And its not like he voted for CJMiller. I agree that his posts are a bit confusing, but I can't see how that connects to him being scum.