Open 125: JK9 (Over) before 761

[Empking]

He's always like this and I don't think he could change without people walking him through it. Meaning, I don't think it's intention. Why play like he does on purpose when it only helps scum?

It's clearly intention. He's playing like he does because it allows him not to expose too much of himself and therefore it is, as you say, harder to get a read on him, and therefore harder to make a case against him.
I would suspect that this would have developed during his introductory phase in mafia where, as we all would have experienced, he got lynched early and often and so retreated in to this playstyle which acted as something like a defence mechanism. Then it became habit.
I also think he enjoys other peoples annoyed reactions to him, which is his (slightly warped) way of exacting revenge on the people who lynched him early and often during his introductory phase.[/psychoanalysis]

And it doesn't only help scum.
.

Which ,forgive me if I'm wrong, was you?

Dejhka: Quote three posts you think you made that were there to help the town?

[dejkha]

No

[Empking]

No

I'll take that as a "I can't"

[ThAdmiral]

Or maybe it's not intention and he's incapable of changing because he's 10 years old or wears a helmet.

I laughed out loud picturing this!

And it doesn't only help scum.

Yes it does.

Agree to disagree.

Once again I don't think he will change (and I never said that so I don't know where you are getting this from). However I do think emp actually has some good points from time to time, and I would trust his judgement more in endgame than shinnen.

List the good points he's made so far and why.

Ugh, you're going to make me trawl back through 23 pages! (something i see you're not willing to do)

I'll do it though. I've got a point to prove.
Watch this space.

It would be so kickass if you flipped scum.

If I flip town will it change your opinion about empking?

He's always like this and I don't think he could change without people walking him through it. Meaning, I don't think it's intention. Why play like he does on purpose when it only helps scum?

It's clearly intention. He's playing like he does because it allows him not to expose too much of himself and therefore it is, as you say, harder to get a read on him, and therefore harder to make a case against him.
I would suspect that this would have developed during his introductory phase in mafia where, as we all would have experienced, he got lynched early and often and so retreated in to this playstyle which acted as something like a defence mechanism. Then it became habit.
I also think he enjoys other peoples annoyed reactions to him, which is his (slightly warped) way of exacting revenge on the people who lynched him early and often during his introductory phase.[/psychoanalysis]

And it doesn't only help scum.
.

Which ,forgive me if I'm wrong, was you?

I don't understand what you mean by this.

[dejkha]

If I flip town will it change your opinion about empking?

No, it'll just change my opinion about you.

[zwetschenwasser]

Did ThAdmiral switch to making emotional pleas?

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I don't know... I think TheAdmiral is trying to hard to defend Emp, while Emp just stays in the back, with his single-phrase answers.

TheAdmiral, I can understand that you want to defend Emp so hard because you might be convinced that really, REALLY deep inside him there's a good player. But, why trying so hard? You're getting yourself in a bad position, as now people may start wondering if you're just scum that is helping a scumbuddy in problems (which, btw, I'm starting to think that as well).

[hewitt]

I could definitely see a ThAdmiral-Empking scum team with Empking sliding on the backburner for a second to let ThAdmiral kind of save his ass.

[zwetschenwasser]

I have the picture of Akeelah and the Bee in my mind right now.

[Light-kun]

Such an act
That blurs the grace and blush of modesty,
Calls virtue hypocrite, takes off the rose
From the fair forehead of an innocent love
And sets a blister there, makes marriage vows
As false as dicers' oaths—oh, such a deed
As from the body of contraction plucks
The very soul, and sweet religion makes
A rhapsody of words. Heaven's face doth glow
O'er this solidity and compound mass
With tristful visage, as against the doom,
Is thought-sick at the act. (

Ham

.3.4.41-52)

Current Vote Count:

Zwetchenwasser -3- (TDC, Dejkha, Grimmy)

Dejkha -2- (Empking, zwetchenwasser)
Empking -2 (Shinnen_no_Me, Sironigous)
Shinnen_no_Me -1- (ThAdmiral)

[Light-kun]

Prodding: Grimmy.

[zwetschenwasser]

Can someone provide an actual good case on me?

[ThAdmiral]

If I flip town will it change your opinion about empking?

No, it'll just change my opinion about you.

In a good way or a bad way?

Did ThAdmiral switch to making emotional pleas?

Where?

I don't know... I think TheAdmiral is trying to hard to defend Emp, while Emp just stays in the back, with his single-phrase answers.

TheAdmiral, I can understand that you want to defend Emp so hard because you might be convinced that really, REALLY deep inside him there's a good player. But, why trying so hard? You're getting yourself in a bad position, as now people may start wondering if you're just scum that is helping a scumbuddy in problems (which, btw, I'm starting to think that as well).

I just really don't like it when people use someone's playstyle as a way to lynch them. I think it should be obvious that if someone is playing the same in all the games they are in (as empking obviously is) then they are just as likely to be town/scum as any one else and shouldn't be given prejudiced treatment.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I can understand that, TheAd, as I usually don't like policy lynch either. But, what I find strange (and even suspicious) is that you're risking yourself for that.

[Grimmy]

Quick note:

I dont see Thad's defense of Empking as being a cover up or laying guilt on him.

I see it more of playing the devils advocate, since the only one trying to defend emp was himself, and his one liners werent making much progress.

also, it moves us on from the "empking is playing scummy, but not enough people will vite for him, so we will continue to argue with him about his playstyle" theme that has dominated much of this game.

Zwet:
Noted. Ill get to this later.

Grimmy

[dejkha]

@Admiral: It depends. I mostly meant good because you'd be town and you actually believe what you say. And bad because... you actually believe what you say =P

[ThAdmiral]

I can understand that, TheAd, as I usually don't like policy lynch either. But, what I find strange (and even suspicious) is that you're risking yourself for that.

Am I?

@Admiral: It depends. I mostly meant good because you'd be town and you actually believe what you say. And bad because... you actually believe what you say =P

It's funny because the empking (and other players who are considered bad) issue is coming up in quite a few games I'm in at the moment. I'd have to say you probably hate him the most out of anyone. Is this true?

[dejkha]

I'd like to say so. If I made a petition to ban Empking, I wonder how many people would sign it... lol.

[Empking]

Shin: Why are you trying to threaten ThAd from speaking against policy lynches?

[TDC]

Ok, that's your personal opinion, as I have my own. However, if you do have played with Emp before, you should know that he usually doesn't look pro-town. And, it's not only me, almost every other player that has played with him thinks this way. But again, if that's your opinion, I won't be insisting in it any longer.

"Look, my vote looks bad. But people always vote him, so why can't I?"

My vote looks bad? Sorry, but I do find scummy when a player OMGUS-es almost everything, and answers with "it's a scumtell" when someone says something he doesn't agree with. You may find that normal, and pro-town, but I don't.

Entirely besides the point. My point was that you're justifiying your vote with "everyone else does it too!", which is not a good reason at all.

You're getting yourself in a bad position, as now people may start wondering if you're just scum that is helping a scumbuddy in problems (which, btw, I'm starting to think that as well).

I'm not. How was Empking in "problems"?

Why are you trying to link people to Empking?

--

Still waiting for Siro to tell us what Empking panicked about.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Shin: Why are you trying to threaten ThAd from speaking against policy lynches?

If you read well, I'm not threathen him for anything. In fact, I told him that I understand his position against policy lynches because I'm usually against them too. I'm wondering why he's defending you so much.

@TDC: I'm not justifying my vote with "everyone else does it too!" I'm saying that, as me, many people think that Emp is a bad player. But that's my opinion on him as a player. My vote is based on him saying everything is a scumtell. That is not only not helping town, but also distracting us from our true goal: lynch scum.

[Empking]

I don't know... I think TheAdmiral is trying to hard to defend Emp, while Emp just stays in the back, with his single-phrase answers.

TheAdmiral, I can understand that you want to defend Emp so hard because you might be convinced that really, REALLY deep inside him there's a good player. But, why trying so hard? You're getting yourself in a bad position, as now people may start wondering if you're just scum that is helping a scumbuddy in problems (which, btw, I'm starting to think that as well).

This is a threat.

Stop defewnding him or we'll say you two are scum buddies.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I'd like to say so. If I made a petition to ban Empking, I wonder how many people would sign it... lol.

I would.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I don't know... I think TheAdmiral is trying to hard to defend Emp, while Emp just stays in the back, with his single-phrase answers.

TheAdmiral, I can understand that you want to defend Emp so hard because you might be convinced that really, REALLY deep inside him there's a good player. But, why trying so hard? You're getting yourself in a bad position, as now people may start wondering if you're just scum that is helping a scumbuddy in problems (which, btw, I'm starting to think that as well).

This is a threat.

Stop defewnding him or we'll say you two are scum buddies.

That's not a threat. I'm asking why he's risking his position by defending you, when you don't seem to care to do that by yourself.

[Empking]

I don't know... I think TheAdmiral is trying to hard to defend Emp, while Emp just stays in the back, with his single-phrase answers.

TheAdmiral, I can understand that you want to defend Emp so hard because you might be convinced that really, REALLY deep inside him there's a good player. But, why trying so hard? You're getting yourself in a bad position, as now people may start wondering if you're just scum that is helping a scumbuddy in problems (which, btw, I'm starting to think that as well).

This is a threat.

Stop defewnding him or we'll say you two are scum buddies.

That's not a threat. I'm asking why he's risking his position by defending you, when you don't seem to care to do that by yourself.

Sounds like one to me.