Mini 768- Root of All Evil (Game Over)

[ChiefSkye4]

Hey guys. Back a little early, finished my project before deadline! Hurrah for no procrastinating...sort of...anyway, re-read the posts, and here are my views on a couple of them:

I've retired from the army here long before some of you were even born, and I still keep a few connections up high. By ten o'clock (night phase) I get a list of two possible people one possible scum. I can choose to pass that along in the morning... or ask my connections in the police force to deal with the one I think is it.

Ok, as you know, this is the original claim by Gateway. I just want to point out some major discrepencies between this and what he's saying now/flavor discrepencies/interesting points/doubtful points:

"I've retired from the army..."

-Later, when pressed for a specific title, he says he's a retired hitman. Hitmen, to my knowledge, are not typically in the army (unless they're some special ops stuff, and that's even a little extreme). Hitmen are normally underworld for-hire killers.

"...and I still keep my connections up high..." vs. "...connections in the police force..."

-Maybe I'm just nitpicky, but here's another possible flavor slip- assuming you're a retired armyman, policemen wouldn't be "connections up high."

"...by ten o'clock (night phase)..."

-I see nothing particularly revealing or

scummy

, as much as I find this interesting. I wonder if that's a random bit of information with no bearing, or if our nights in this game have some sort of timing structure.

"...or

ask

my connections in the

police force

to

deal with

the one I think it is..."

-"Ask" implies a request, not an order. This seems to all hinge on whoever the cop is to accept such a request.
-"Police force." Thinking logically "police"=cop=investigating. Not killing. Most games that I've participated in has a cop who

investigates

, not kills.
-"Deal with..." Very, very ambiguous.
-Notice that as the game goes on, Gateway phases the cops out of this at all. Now, it seems (and as Jazz pointed out), that it will be HIM [Gateway] doing the killing directly.

All in all, I'm 90% sure the claim is untrue- it has too many holes. If it does (doubt it) turn out to be true, then it may hold some interesting info.

Anyway,

I already said I can kill one of the two people if I want so yes.

An example of Gateway leaving the cops out of the picture.

Basically lynching me on a hunch day 1, or wait and lynch me day two with a 100% facts if I don't supply two names that fit the towns satisfaction. Which is better?

Ok, the plan that is currently being considered for Gateway is all fine and dandy, but consider this- IF we were to leave him be, and he IS mafia, this is worst case scenario:

-We lynch town today
-Tonight, mob NKs, Gateway prepares phony list with two townies, and "chose to present them to us."
-Day: lynch one on the list, turns up town.
-Night again, mob NKs again
-Next day, we lynch other townie on "list." Turns up town, we know Gateway is mob.
-Mob NKs that night
-Day, we lynch Gateway, turns up mafia.

TOWN BODY COUNT: 6
MAFIA BODY COUNT: 1

Is that really worth it? If we're going to let Gateway live, we better be damn sure that we don't mess up one step of the way. If he is scum, we're trusting a lot in his hands.

Unless Panzerjager comes up with a good excuse for their false claim, Panzerjager is scum.

Scum because they said they had experience with you? Doubt it, but I suppose it's poooossible. But you're overreacting QUITE a bit here.

well, in that case, i completely believe gateway!!! who knows was other very powerful role the bad guys have!

...

In any case, let it be noted that sekinj is heavily and wholeheartedly defending Gateway.

I find it believeable because I don't think gateway could come up with it on his own.

Possible. But, if my theory is correct, that the claim is fake because of all of the holes, it could fit with your "excuse" for sekinj. You find it hard to believe that he came up on his own due to inexperience or inattentiveness? Well, with all of the descrepencies, maybe it could only be him who came up with it.

i think gateway just skims and does see everything.

I think you mean "doesn't." And this post, among others of yours, remind me of a mother defending her son, frivolously and unnecessarily. It strikes me as odd that sekinj defends not Gateway's gameplay, but his

reading skills.

Noted.

ChiefSkye4: Do you want to be taller?

Nah. I'm 5'8", which is rather tall for a 15-year-old American girl.

[Gateway]

busy right now, but I have a reply to this post. Give me a just a little bit to point out your obvious faults.

[Gateway]

Actually as I was about to nitpick your 'ten o'clock' theory and others. I see I have already given a reply and don't need to go lengthy. That was all while I thought I had to stay in character. So I was being vague, the -moment- I was told you aren't mod killed for giving the mechanics of the role I spit it out.

I mean for @# (you chosen curse) sake . Then all the what not after about me keeping out the cops and the like after was a crock as I had been told I don't need to be in character and I only spoke mechanics.

Or an even bigger sign to slap you with. I am sure I posted the site I played at before on this forum. It is a roleplaying mud, that should give away my goal before being told was to stay in character and not be mod-killed by stating mechanics.

I mean really, seeing that what is your argument. It is such a friggen stupid point, you are basically bringing up something dead hoping to get people that might not be following to jump on.

I challenge anyone to say I am wrong and that his post stands up.

[Azhrei]

Gateway, do I have to quote the post of yours where you quite deliberately left out my questions? Really. It seems somewhat pointless, you scummy idiot.

*sigh*

Original Post:

Panzer is right guys. There is no way in hell that role would be put into a game, unless the mod was a complete dick.

Now, you aren't a complete dick, are you mod? I don't think so.

Gateway, the whole role is a lie. It's completely implausible. Of course you can tell us its real name. Why not answer some of the questions levelled about it? Do you announce the names, or does the mod? If you choose to kill one, are you not allowed to tell us the other name? If so, what is the punishment for telling us?

Gateway's reply.

Panzer is right guys. There is no way in hell that role would be put into a game, unless the mod was a complete dick.

Now, you aren't a complete dick, are you mod? I don't think so.

Gateway, the whole role is a lie. It's completely implausible. Of course you can tell us its real name.

Okay, retired hitman.

And to answer your question I get the two names privately and in the morning I will pass them both out. I only ask you give me a single night to prove it. I will be under a lot of pressure the very beginning of day two no?

So to break it down again my plan is simple.
. Tonight get two names.
. Tomorrow report two names if I don't get NK

One of the two will be scum, so I'll tell you the names tomorrow and I will really be under the spotlight then right? Plus on day 2 I will have facts. I only ask you consider my facts, or readily explain what is wrong with those two bullet points?

Okay, lets not how my post is cut off just where my questions start? Yeahhh.

After me pressuring him to answer:

[snip]
To Az - Tell you what, since I seem to keep missing your questions, address them in bullet form and I'll answer right back. And remember you called the mod a dick if they actually inserted a role like mine
[snip]

Holy crap. You had to deliberately select which part of my post to delete when you quoted me. YOU COULDN'T HAVE MISSED IT. I even quoted the questions AGAIN. And your whole bullet form thing is stupid. Other people have put their questions, and you didn't answer them.

Gateway is deliberately avoiding questions. He is clearly witholding information from the town. He has an obvious faceclaim that he has made up. This guy couldn't get any scummier. Can someone just hammer him. Please.

[Gateway]

Yeah, well I thought you had common sense, my bad.

I will break it down for you, remember all the talk (there are a half dozen posts on it) about the plan of me going until tomorrow and naming the two?

So how can:
"If you choose to kill one, are you not allowed to tell us the other name? If so, what is the punishment for telling us?"
Not be answered by that.

Like I -already- said I cut out the part that wasn't being answered in my post. As it was a friggen common sense answer. You are being just shallow with your accusations.

Explain to me how I avoided your "If you choose to kill one, are you not allowed to tell us the other name? If so, what is the punishment for telling us?" question.

Yes I did not put up a pretty quote box or put your name, I thought average IQ would read me saying "I'll declare the two names tomorrow" as an answer to that question

[Gateway]

So at this point, Let me say that Az and Panzer -are- scum. My POV lets me see them as really baseless. Or in Panzer's situation a flat out liar that has shut up once I said to just prove it. I supplied several mod friendly phrases Panzer could use and they have just ignored it.

Tomorrow I would be seeking out Panzer and Az as serious scum. Mafiassk and sekinj are suspicious.

So even if I get lynched I am pointing out that Panz and Az have shown a general fear of the town strategy of seeing if I can make two names tomorrow. Hard to do if I am lying as I will be made for scum D2 for sure if I live.

If I am scum and lying, then you all have me D2. Why fear that, there are other targets here and if I can't supply my 'outrageous' claim tomorrow. Then you all have a safe lynch tomorrow right.


That is my reply, but this is a question I really want addressed by my accusers.
Please someone with a vote on me tell me what is wrong with saving a possible townie and weapon, with the worst possible turnout being a safe lynch tomorrow?

[sekinj]

Omg, gateway, you certainly don't know how to help yourself.

Why are you suspicious of me?

What do you think of my theory that panzer is going after you too hard to KNOW you are town? He is leaving himself nothing to fall back on tomorrow. (Much like myself)

[Azhrei]

*FACEPALM*

You. Are. An. Idiot.

I asked you a question in a particular context, about a particular situation. You never answered it. You still have not. There was indeed a point behind my questions.

You are the most hyprocritical, annoying player I have ever been in a game with.

God, the only way you're gonna win this game is if your win condition is "Annoy every player in the game."

The questions WAS NOT a common sense answer. I asked you whether, if you were to kill one of the names you were given, are you allowed to tell us the other name the next day. I then asked, if you werre not allowed, what the punishment was.

Learn to read.

[Azhrei]

Above post is directed at Gateway, not Sekinj. Although, I'd say he's probably scum too.

[Azhrei]

Oh, and you avoided the damn question by never even mentioning it until now, wehn I have forced you to.

[Jazzmyn]

Regarding Jazzmyn's post: Jazzmyn, how do you feel about this now? Has you opinion changed at all? I, for one, find the gradual changes quite telling, I have serious doubts about Gateway.

My opinion about the metamorphosis of his claim has not changed. He initially claimed to

possibly

get a list of two players (which suggests that instead he might get a list of one or none), and that one of the players on any such list might

possibly

be scum. He claimed that he had the option to

ask

his police friends to

deal with

one of the names, or the option to have both names revealed in the thread the next day. That claim seems at least plausible to me (i.e. a sort of weak cop role) and assuming that the names are randomly generated. At that point, Gateway wasn't claiming to be a hands-on killer, but rather a sort of quasi-investigative role.

Then he morphed that into

definitely

getting a list of two people, one of whom might

possibly

be scum, and having a choice of having one of those two players

dealt with

, presumably by his cop friends to whom he previously alluded. Again, this suggests a weak cop role, where he gets to suggest a name to someone else for investigation, and he says nothing about any hands-on work of his own or anything about having any ability to get a result himself - rather, it suggests that a cop would get a result.

Then, he morphed that into a completely different scenario in which he

definitely

gets a list of two names each night, one of them is

definitely

scum, one of them is

definitely

town, and he gets to either

personally kill

one or report both names in the morning. This is vastly removed from his initial claim.

From that, I conclude that Gateway is either scum or an independent faction of some kind, out to achieve a personal win condition, and that he morphed his claim to try to convince the rest of us that he's town rather than scum or independent. I don't believe for one second that the game mod would give a town-aligned role two names every night with one being certain scum and one being certain town, because that would be a ridiculously unbalanced setup. But I also can't fathom why Gateway, as scum, would offer up such a convoluted and ever-morphing fake claim.

So, I'm leaning more toward the likelihood that he is an independent with a kill ability but certainly not that which he claims (i.e. getting two names each night, one a certain townie and one a certain scum).


Sekinj is behaving very bizarrely in staunch defence of Gateway, which makes me think that she is scum and that the scum think that Gateway can be of use to them, at least for a while until they decide to kill him off after he's outlived his usefulness to them.

These are relevant, please respond to them truthfully. They are litmus tests to determine how much you're trying to hide.

Oh, look, someone's taking first year psych classes. Well, far be it from me to dissuade anyone from higher education, even if it's a basket weaving course like psych 101, so I'll play.

Do you think you're insecure?

About certain things, yes.


@all
More later, and probably a vote, once I do a more thorough re-read of the last few pages and update my game notes and analysis.

Regards,
Jazz

[Archon]

That puts Gateway at L-1 again.
1. Is there any reason that you addressed your opinion of the case on Gateway to that post specifically?

2. I explained my reason in the post that you quoted. What's difficult to understand about "I find frequent vote switches suspicious, since it makes getting a read difficult"?

3. In what sense is this "over"? Do you believe the questions surrounding Gateway have been satisfactorily resolved, to any extent?

4. How silly of you!

5. What are the primary factors in your vote?

Also, could you clarify what you meant by "All of a sudden, I'm not so sure about gateway anymore", in your first post?

1. ?

2. nevermind

3. No, I was talking about the time that I did the stupid joke, not now.

5. That he has this role that could easily be thought up. aslso, it could be faked to look lie he has this role.

Right now, I am really on the fence. I could so easily be against or for Gateway. so, I'll just

UNVOTE

and

VOTE SEJINK

-snip-

Useless people:
MafiaSSK
Archon

-snip-

*makes random gurguling noise.*

Gateway: Why aren't you voting Panzerjager then? Further, you have been so incoherent that I am not going to put the blame on Panzer for misinterpreting your madness. From your answer I gather that you are highly invested into this game, which sadly only tells me that you are a power role or scum, rather useless at this juncture. In addition, I am getting that you are feeling victimised, which is newbie town. At the same time, you are unwilling to take responsibility for your bad stance, which is characteristic of scum.

sekinj: Do you have any other suggestions regarding who is scum? Or are you intent to be his bodyguard and nothing else? From your answer, specifically the brevity, you're trying to be conservative, and not reveal too much about yourself, scummy. However, you openly admit weakness, which would normally be town, but the guilty manner in which you do admit it is scummy. Further, your attempt to pass it off as a joke is indicative that you intend to pass of what I am saying as made-up, scummy.

Sekinj is a good lynch today.

Agreed. I forget why, but I remember not liking sekinj for some reason... DAMN MY MEMORY!!!

[Gateway]

The questions WAS NOT a common sense answer. I asked you whether, if you were to kill one of the names you were given, are you allowed to tell us the other name the next day. I then asked, if you werre not allowed, what the punishment was.

Learn to read.

We already answered that. Who's the moron.

I will break it down to retard, numnutz level for you though

The questions WAS NOT a common sense answer. I asked you whether, if you were to kill one of the names you were given, are you allowed to tell us the other name the next day.

All the posts about me living to day two and passing along the names because I am allowed didn't answer that for you? Really? Okay
YES I CAN PASS ALONG THE NAMES WITHOUT PUNISHMENT

I mean really. We had entire discussions about having me survive until day two to see if my roleclaim is fake. That wasn't an answer?

And onto the rest of your pathetically stupid question

I then asked, if you werre not allowed, what the punishment was.

Learn to read.

Ever right n/a on a form before? If I don't get in trouble, I can't answer what my punishment for when I get in trouble now can I.

Now please. I've done my best to break it down to a level your single digit I.Q. can understand. Explain how the question is -still- not answered for you.

Why are you so scared of my roleclaim, surely D2 is promised town if I am scum right? Only scum should fear it. So I stand behind you and Panzer being scum.

@ sejink - You made half hearted votes against me. Others are voting based on lies that they won't seem to read I've already proven wrong, you based yours on what seemed to be adding momentum. You're not scummy to me, but in my POV statement you are someone I am suspicious of.

I feel a person's POV is always important to know should they die, as I can obviously see who is coming at me with the most baseless accusation. If I get lynched and the role pops up as hitman, I want people to know Az and Panzer were the 100% scum after me. People should also know I was suspicious of you and MafiaSSK. Not so much now, but I feel an eye should be kept on you when we prove I am a hitman (either tomorrow morning, or today's lynch, I still ousted scum see?)

[Gateway]

To Jazz. Again that -morph- everyone is talking about is because I thought you were modkilled for breaking character and naming the specifics of your role. So I tried to explain them in theme.

And most importantly please read this.

You say I changed my claim. No I said I get two people, one possible scum.
The second time I said two names and one is scum. They are they exact same thing.

I meant that of -two- people -one- is scum.

Which means either of them are possibly scum.

I've noticed Az say I ignore questions, but is anyone paying attention to the answer.

1.) Do you really not see how I was in character up until the moment I was informed no modkill?
2.) Can you not see the two "different" claims are the same. Two names, one innocent one scum?

Can you show me you're not asking questions to accuse, but asking questions to learn by telling me what my answer is lacking?

[Gateway]

In case anyone forgot also...
Az said the mod is a dick if my role was to really exist.

[sekinj]

If I am such a good lynch why are so few voting me?

[Gateway]

I think I might be the better one. Further discussion and aimless accusations are only going to claim confusion. As much as I dislike it, I'd rather someone hammered me and remembered I claimed the retired hitman role and if Panz and Az aren't working together. I am at least sure Panz is scum. They said something I personally knew is a lie and never defended when I called out the lie.

I know the town doesn't believe me now, but when I die and the truth comes out you will know I was telling the truth when I said Panz is straight lying about the meta knowledge.

I'd rather we stuck to the idea of me going to day two (the BS claim that I could make up two names and we lynch one is crap. I said I will produce two names and then you know one of three people is mafia me, or one of the two people) Although if Az or Panz's name comes up I will do the kill. Then D2 you all will see scum killed -plus- I will announce the innocent name.

[Gateway]

Actually please let's try the D2 plan. I really hope Panz pops up now and want to do the NK. I mean tomorrow I will have to answer before everyone on the night's actions yes. Then we have -facts- not some scummy twisting of words.

[Jazzmyn]

Gateway:

without quoting your role PM,

please tell us what your win condition is.

Regards,
Jazz

[Gateway]

Here is my best defense:
Tomorrow I have to supply two names right? Obviously it won't be Panz or Az as I would have used my kill on them. That means two people -beside- Panz or Az will know me for scum without the slightest doubt tomorrow. Them along with Panz and Az and 100% lynch for me tomorrow right?

I mean think of it, is there -any- way to squirm out of it now. Four people will vote me the first page of D2 is I am lying right? Az plus the two I mentioned if both are obviously townies.

When you break it down into numbers the D2 plan only gives the town power. The scenerio of me being scum promises 100% no townies die tomorrow since you'll know the lynch has to be me. It'll be a one page day.

[Gateway]

Sorry Jazz was writing the other post. It says I win as long as I am alive when we capture all the scum.

[Gateway]

Yeah... so that sort of makes me look anti-town. It is a shared victory through right? All the same a lynch that should happen after I've toasted a few scum and spread my nightly info to you all.

[Jazzmyn]

To Jazz. Again that -morph- everyone is talking about is because I thought you were modkilled for breaking character and naming the specifics of your role. So I tried to explain them in theme.

And most importantly please read this.

You say I changed my claim. No I said I get

two people, one possible scum.

The second time I said

two names and one is scum

.

They are they exact same thing.

No, Gateway, these two things do not mean the same thing at all. That is precisely the problem. One is plausible, the other is not.

Regards,
Jazz

[Battousai]

Vote Count

Gateway

- 5 (Azhrei, Molestargazer, MafiaSSK, Panzerjager, Spolium)

Sekinj

- 2 (Verbosity, Archon)

Not Voting

: Chiefskye4, Jazzmyn, sekinj, ThAdmiral, Gateway

It takes 7 to lynch!

[Gateway]

ummm wait they do mean the same. I just took one subject and wrote two ways of saying it.

In all fairness explain to me.

1.) I get two names 2.) One is scum
or I get two names and either one is possibly scum?

I was more bullet the second (first time in this post) I explained it, but I assure you it is the same thing.

I will draw out a scenerio though.
"Me, tom, larry, and scott plus some others play... Night phase I get tom and scott. So from that information we know tom is possibly scum, scott is possibly scum"

or

"Me, tom, larry, and scott plus some others play... Night phase I get tom and scott.
One of these two is a scum and one is not"

Yes the wording -is- different, but the -meaning- is not.

I am trying here, is I really not clear now?