Zachrulez 575 wrote:1. I thought it was pretty apparent that my top suspects were Spring (Who I was voting for before Pablo.) Beyond Birthday, and Pablo. Not that you'd notice since you've gone out of your way to tell me how I've apparently been thinking and acting and strategizing as hyposcum...
You say "hyposcum" like it's ludicrous to suggest anyone's Mafia until they flip.
Anyway, yes, I don't tend to notice these things after wallposting. My fault entirely~
So let's fix that. Your case on springlullaby - and correct me if I'm wrong somewhere along the way - looks like this.
*Called to lynch Ectomancer on Page 1 (#2). Joke stage, weak, moving on.
*Argued for a quicklynch D1 (#s 5 and 6). This wasn't much of an accusation, but it WAS unusual for springlullaby to suggest it. I don't usually see people arguing bad theory (if it is bad theory) as scummy more than ignorant (or in this case, something else - see next point), so.
-~This part needs its own section~-
*Pseudo-OMGUSd JereIC after calling his points circular (#10). Without reading JereIC's points much (considering when I started reading, JereIC was suffering from lingering death), springlullaby's vote and her follow-up to it initially looked scummy. However, after actually reading the exchange between JereIC and springlullaby (novel idea, I know), I don't find springlullaby's position to be scummy.
**JereIC: Unvoting springlullaby. Fourth vote on Page 2 is bad.
**springl: Why? Quicklynches are great for Town!
**JereIC: (reasons) Why do you want a quicklynch?
**springl: I don't; nobody does. Dunno why you made such a deal of unvoting.
**JereIC: Didn't want to risk it. Change of subject: Zer0, yes or no?
**springl: What kind of--k guys, JereIC is trying to duck out of this one.
**JereIC: LIES. springl is active lurking, thought she would be quicklynched and/or Ectomancer would be quicklynched, and made that argument to knock the game off-topic. (lolno, that argument came after the wagon on her)
**springl: lolwut I was trying to quicklynch Ectomancer? (this is probably referring to the pregame voting spree, where springl placed a third vote on Ectomancer out of seven necessary. The same thing happened after the game officially began)
**JereIC: Oh look, spring's protecting Zer0-scum. If Zer0 flips scum, springl's next.
**springl: Lining up lynches much? And how am I protecting Zer0?
**JereIC: Well, you keep saying "oh he's scummy" when you haven't commented on the actual case against him, and you keep sidetracking the discussion from him.
**springl: LIES. I've said more than you have (in spite of the little springl had mentioned about Zer0, this is actually true), and furthermore you're presuming he's scum - why?
**JereIC: No you haven't. *evidence*
(repeat previous two lines a few times; springl votes JereIC)
**B_B: If Zer0 is an idiot Townie, then the "your case is invalid because it presupposes Zer0 is scum" arguments from springl is false (huh?); vote springl.
**Zach: I see who's winning this argument. spring is scum.
Sorry for the wall of history. I will readily concede that if Zer0 flipped scum, springl should be under much, much more scrutiny. But beside that last part, I don't see springl's side of the argument as unreasonable.
-~Back to your case vs. springlullaby~-
*"Demanded" you explain yourself (#12). I'm not even going to touch this one.
*Apparent faux desire to lynch Zer0phe4r (#14). Not a terrible point, as she goes from "anyone's guess" -> "will vote to get rid of him" -> ambiguous "what do you mean I haven't discussed him?" -> "anyone's guess". This isn't something I can't see a Townie doing (changing their mind or backtracking after saying something impulsive), but it's not immaterial for an accusation.
*Applied some degree of newbie defense to the Zer0 wagon (distancing) (#21). If anything, this is a positive regardless (though Town and scum are known to do this and it's not a strong indication of alignment). Plus the fact that Zer0 actually came up Town kinda knocks the wind out of this.
*Negative points: zwet tried to advance springlullaby-scum on the basis of the JereIC kill (#40). But zwet flipped Town, so this doesn't mean much now.
*Called lurkers at LyLo by voting them instead of letting them get modkilled (#s 52 and #60). If you play Mafia on other sites where inactives suicide for the sake of game speed (EpicMafia is an example), then I can see where this would be coming from. But modkilling basically everyone except you, B_B, and springlullaby - do you see this as a good idea? It's LyLo. Mass modkills were reasonably likely to end the game right there, or at least put Town into a worse position. To be fair, I don't see pressure voting flakers to be a very good idea either (since pressure is for people who can respond to it, obviously). The best answer to this is to get them replaced ASAP, but because of the Awesome modding in this game, I can see why that was not necessarily viewed as an option. I think the best thing to do with this is drop it altogether as an argument against anyone.
*Apparent "fake fighting" between springlullaby and Ectomancer ending on Page 6 (#65). The actual
fighting
ended ~Page 2, but I see that springl and Ectomancer were working in something like a collusion around Page 4. It's a halfway decent start to a case, but hardly good by itself.
Conclusion: You probably weren't expecting me to say otherwise, but I'm not convinced.
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Zach 575 wrote:I just love how I apparently argued that the wagon wasn't scum driven, simply because I challenged the assertion that it wasn't for a sure thing. I just love arguments that are made presuming I knew Zero's alignment at a point in the game before it was known. MAYBE I DIDN'T AND THINKING HE WAS SCUM I PRESUMED THAT SCUM WOULDN'T ACTUALLY VOTE FOR HIM.
Seeing a wagon balloon like that is kind of an obvious tell.
Meanwhile, you mean to tell me that you had enough evidence to tunnel on Zer0 relatively early into D1 (126) to the point of suggesting that his wagon was entirely Town-driven (201)?
Zach 575 wrote:It's not like people were calling the wagon scum ridden and trying to put as much distance as they could from the lynch before it actually went through. (Take a guess at who those people were.)
springlullaby and Nuwen, correct? One of them flipped Town already. Moreover, since Zer0 flipped Town, I think it would count as credit TOWARD springlullaby for delaying the wagon.
Besides, someone like Zer0 would be highly bussable anyway (would YOU want him on your scumteam?).
Zach 575 wrote:Oh lord, retaliating your text walls with text walls of my own is not pro town?... well it's not like that's hypocritical in the least since you hit me with 2 text walls of your own. (Note my responses to your text wall were generally pretty short and to the point, and it's you own typing in the quotes that makes my response look so lengthy. But whatever. I try to keep my text wall posts to a minimum anyway.)
Hmm... Fair point. All right, let Vipoleon change the edict a bit.
You can type up a defense; that's just fair. However, after that last wall I have some serious doubt that it will change my mind and I'm not up for going through a series of walls that will also not change my mind.
I would also reiterate the point that nobody actually reads walls unless they have to, and thus minimizing them is pro-Town; but first we actually need people to read and comment on the game, so I'll retract that.
(Yes, I see this is also a wall. But most of it's about springlullaby, who is a different subject and worth the investigation besides.)
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hasdgfas 577 wrote:What is your current avi, anyway?
Mia the Swordmaster, from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn. It's my third avatar in a row of a Mia.
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Setael. 'Still here?
Looker. Quit being lurkerscum. You're throwing off my Infallible Scum Predictions.
Alternatively, keep it up and I won't have any problems changing my course for the day and voting you.
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.