Mini 758 - Normalcy (GAME OVER)

[Benmage]

Benmage, stop lying. The post I quoted when I made that post, which you conveniently cut out, was of YOU voting for me.

Vote: Benmage

for out-and-out lying, and jumping on a bandwagon with a nearly non-existent, completely parroted reasoning.

Ugh this is just a bad statement...I know I voted for you..I state this...but how was it wagon jumping when my vote for you was the first vote on you...

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The "OMG ARKANSAS HAS INTERNET" Votecount

Lowell (5) - EmpTyger, dejkha, Riceballtail, Atronach, Benmage

Riceballtail (3) - Lowell, Plum, Kieraen

Benmage (1) - Knight of Cydonia

Not Voting (1):

Caboose

6 to lynch

[Kieraen]

It isn't Ben. I'm with you on that one...

KoC, you may inadvertently create your own self wagon with this sort of argument.

[Lowell]

I'm going to claim anyway.

I'm a

one-shot tracker

I forgot I had a powerrole so I didn't use it last night.

The fact that I'm one-shot, btw, is why I believe caboose. Someone protect me for one night only and I'll make it worth your while. Thanks.

[Kieraen]

Interesting. Caboose is defended by Lowell because he has a similair powerrole.

Or in other words, One of our top suspects defends another of our top suspects.

I imagine either both are right or wrong.

I reckon Plum probably is town. So theres one positive.

We have an option, whereby we can protect Lowell (who tracks tonight) and lynch Caboose to see if he is who he says he is.

That would result in (probably):

Two mafia in Lowell and Caboose, with Plum as a possible third.

or 1 tracker (with results pending), 1 confirmed townie (in Plum) and 1 dead useless cop.


The second option of course is that Lowell is a mafia using this as an oppurtunity to look townie. hmm


I support a lynch of Caboose.

Unvote, Vote Caboose

[Lowell]

Wow that's dumb logic.

[Caboose]

Vote: Benmage

for out-and-out lying, and jumping on a bandwagon with a nearly

non-existent, completely parroted reasoning

.

Italics is what concerns me about Benmage.

Vote: Benmage

I think Lowell's roleclaim is true.

Also, what the hell did I do to become a "top suspect"?

We have an option, whereby we can protect Lowell

(who tracks tonight)

and lynch Caboose to see if he is who he says he is.

Lynching me just to see if my claim is true is just bullsh*t. You need to have reason to believe I'm scum.
The bold is weird to me. You seem to be pretty sure that Lowell is telling the truth.

That would result in (probably):

Two mafia in Lowell and Caboose, with Plum as a possible third.

or 1 tracker (with results pending), 1 confirmed townie (in Plum) and 1 dead useless cop.


The second option of course is that Lowell is a mafia using this as an oppurtunity to look townie. hmm

That looks like three options to me... And of course we have the ever present chance of Plum being a GF (which I doubt, but I'll be pissed at myself if this is true).

Your supporting a lynch based on just a roleclaim troubles me.

[Riceballtail]

UNVOTE

due to claim.

[EmpTyger]

I don’t think I’m giving anything away at this point if I state that I would not be surprised if all powerroles in this game are one-shot. Which is why I’m really bothered by the preemptive insistence by Caboose and the expectation of Lowell that their claims exonerate them.

---

Caboose:
I really don’t like how you are responding to questions without answering what’s being asked.

FoS: Caboose

because... why? Why reveal that now? Now the scum know they have 1 less person to pick from when hunting power roles. Plus, claiming a one-shot power is pointless, because we have no way to verify it - you can't exactly do it again and hope for a watcher/tracker. Pointless, unverifyable claim For The Lose.

Because I might get lynched today or NKed tonight, and then the info that Plum is confirmed town is lost.
<snip>

KoC wasn’t asking why you claimed an innocent on Plum. He was asking why you claimed the 1-shot detail. Which I still want to know.

“That’s all”? Declaring someone innocent doesn’t find guilties. Atronach is right- you do seem far too eager to quickly establish your innocence, without any interest whatsoever in actually finding mafia.

Of course I'm eager to establish my innocence.
And if I had no interest in finding mafia, I wouldn't have even bothered to tell you guys my investigation results.

Establishing your innocence doesn’t find mafia. Simply establishing your innocent only wins if you’re mafia, because mafia simply need to avoid being killed. If you’re town, you need to also figure out who is guilty. And you’re weren’t.

<snip>
I think Lowell's roleclaim is true

Why? Because I don’t. It has a huge hole of convenient (and imho implausible) amnesia. It does nothing to address the reasons why he was originally voted. And even if it is, it says nothing about his alignment.

So if it’s because it has the words “1-shot” in it make it plausible- then you must believe that there’s a significant number of 1-shot roles. In which case, why wouldn’t you think that the mafia would also be aware of this fact?

<snip>
Your supporting a lynch based on just a roleclaim troubles me.

Your opposing a lynch based on just a roleclaim troubles me.

Less sarcastically, though: there are lots of reasons to support a Lowell lynch beyond “just roleclaim”. Which you have avoided commenting on, particularly at the point when I was pointing out how you weren’t trying to find mafia.

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Kieraen:
Why are you dismissing the cases where Caboose/Lowell are of different alignments?

---

Benmage:

<snip>

spyrex gets townpoints. KoC does not. Carry on.

This stuff is always lame in my opinion…but is from my experience generally a townies move.
<snip>

<snip>

Vote Lowell

Her posts are absolutely useless. Nothing of real substance. One to two lines.
<snip>

What took you from “generally townie” to voteworthy?

[Caboose]

KoC wasn’t asking why you claimed an innocent on Plum. He was asking why you claimed the 1-shot detail. Which I still want to know.

Because leaving out that detail would be lying. Not sure why I wouldn't claim that detail as it's pretty important.

Establishing your innocence doesn’t find mafia. Simply establishing your innocent only wins if you’re mafia, because mafia simply need to avoid being killed. If you’re town, you need to also figure out who is guilty. And you’re weren’t.

I don't understand this. Do I need to be "figuring out who is guilty" in

every

post? My first post was a quick post just for everyone's info.

Please tell me the name of one person who has "found mafia" today so far.

Roleclaiming and clearing someone else isn't a scumtell. Also, defending yourself isn't a scumtell either. It's become sort of a "scumtell" on this site and I completely disagree with that.

Why? Because I don’t. It has a huge hole of convenient (and imho implausible) amnesia. It does nothing to address the reasons why he was originally voted. And even if it is, it says nothing about his alignment.

Where's the huge hole? I must be missing it.
And this doesn't have anything to do with it being one-shot.

[Kieraen]

I stand by it. At very least by lynching Caboose we establish plum's innocence and Cabooses innocence.

However one problem occured to me. The logical next move of the mafia would be to lynch plum (as confirmed townie he has no value to them). With no leads the NK becomes useless.


I say we lynch RBT instead. make life much simpler.

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The "Check your votes; your mod is tired..." Votecount

Lowell (4) - EmpTyger, dejkha, Atronach, Benmage

Riceballtail (2) - Lowell, Plum
Benmage (2) - Knight of Cydonia, Caboose

Caboose (1) - Kieraen

Not Voting (1):

Riceballtail

6 to lynch

[Atronach]

I am okay with an RBT lynch, still has posted nothing of subtance nor even addressed the concern.

Less so with Caboose. Though I find his defense lackluster. That is why it arouses suspicion, Caboose, not by nature of defending yourself at all.

I am still debating on whether or not to give Lowell the benefit of the doubt on the claim, but for now I

Unvote

[Knight of Cydonia]

Both claims irk me, Lowell's slightly less. I'd prefer a Caboose lynch to anyone else right now, so I will

unvote; Vote Caboose

[Caboose]

Less so with Caboose. Though I find his defense lackluster. That is why it arouses suspicion, Caboose, not by nature of defending yourself at all.

I think the attacks are lackluster. I don't see how my defenses have been "lackluster" though.
Prove to everyone that they're not.

KoC, is this a "let's lynch Caboose to test his claim" vote? Because that concept is just flat out stupid.

If you don't believe the claim, then fine, but give a reason.

However one problem occured to me. The logical next move of the mafia would be to lynch plum (as confirmed townie he has no value to them). With no leads the NK becomes useless.

This

JUST

occured to you?

I feel like this is the train of piss poor thought here:
SpyreX flipped town and Caboose claimed cop early in the day. Therefore, he must be scum. Alright everyone, let's just lynch Caboose and hope he's scum. If he's not, well, that's two town down the drain. Hopefully, there's not a mafia roleblocker that's going to block Lowell.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I don't believe the claim, Caboose. I thought I made that clear. It's too quick, and it's pointless to out town players. As a tracker, I only out townies in order to prevent a mislynch at MyLo or LyLo. Otherwise, it's not worth it.
The whole thing stinks of a desperate attempt to move away a perfectly valid lynch.

[Kieraen]

I think the risk of killing mafia Caboose is certainly worth the risk of killing townie Caboose.

Yeah mafia might lynch Plum, as a way of disclosing no new information for the town. But so what they will do this anyway.

I'm liking the sound of my gambit (and the sound of my own voice). I'm going to role with this one and

unvote, vote Caboose

Also if we have a doc, he can play 50 50 on protecting Lowell or Plum. Keep the mafia guessing. Hopefully mafia and doc pick same and both will be alive for us to continue our investigations tomorrow (assuming neither is mafia).

[Atronach]

Weren't you already voting for Caboose, Kieraen? I don't think you get two votes.

[Caboose]

I don't believe the claim, Caboose. I thought I made that clear. It's too quick, and it's pointless to out town players. As a tracker, I only out townies in order to prevent a mislynch at MyLo or LyLo. Otherwise, it's not worth it.

That's a false analogy.

If you are a tracker, you don't have a limited number of times you can use your ability. Therefore, you always have a potential to find scum. I don't. I've already used my ability and it goes to waste if I don't share the info.

The whole thing stinks of a desperate attempt to move away a perfectly valid lynch.

Prove that it was valid before the claim.
You've been avoiding doing so for quite some time now.

[Benmage]

Have to say I'm certainly questioning the allegiance of those who doubt Caboose's claim, and moreover those who are voting against him. It doesn't seem like a mafia advantageous thing to do. (Even if mafia had a one-shot investigative move)

I don't believe Lowell's role claim...forgot about his ability... No sir, I still think a Lowell lynch would be best.

[EmpTyger]

Benmage:
Please answer my question to you in [182].

It doesn't seem like a mafia advantageous thing to do. (Even if mafia had a one-shot investigative move)

You can’t see any advantage to mafia if a mafia fakeclaims cop?

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Kieraen:

<snip>
I'm liking the sound of my gambit (and the sound of my own voice). I'm going to role with this one and

unvote, vote Caboose

Also if we have a doc, he can play 50 50 on protecting Lowell or Plum. Keep the mafia guessing. Hopefully mafia and doc pick same and both will be alive for us to continue our investigations tomorrow (assuming neither is mafia).

If you think Caboose is mafia, then why do you think the doctor should be considering protecting Plum?

---

Caboose:
I *really* don’t like how you are responding to questions without answering what’s being asked.

KoC wasn’t asking why you claimed an innocent on Plum. He was asking why you claimed the 1-shot detail. Which I still want to know.

Because leaving out that detail would be lying. Not sure why I wouldn't claim that detail as it's pretty important.
<snip>

Not my question. Why did you claim at all?
(And, explain why that detail is so important to claim. Because to me, either the mafia don’t know about its significance detail, in which case why would you want to blurt it out. Or the mafia do know about it, in which case it means nothing. Except that you are reallyreally eager to be the first to claim and reallyreally insistent that it makes you innocent.)

I don't understand this. Do I need to be "figuring out who is guilty" in

every

post? My first post was a quick post just for everyone's info.

Please tell me the name of one person who has "found mafia" today so far.

The point isn’t finding mafia. It’s *trying* to find mafia, versus simply trying not be lynched.

Roleclaiming and clearing someone else isn't a scumtell. Also, defending yourself isn't a scumtell either.
<snip>

You’re not being accused of defending yourself, but of defending yourself when you weren’t being attacked.
Why not, instead of blithely declaring that your behavior is not a scumtell, you say what might be a scumtell in others’ behavior?

<snip>
Where's the huge hole? I must be missing it.

Um, the conveniently unused ability last night? Which conveniently requires a presumably 1-shot doctor to use up their ability tonight?

And this doesn't have anything to do with it being one-shot.

This is ridiculous and I’m *this* close to switching my vote to you. Considering how aghast and high-minded you got about oh-I-*had*-to-claim-cop-and-not-only-that-1-shot-cop-because-anything-less-than-that-would-be-a-lie when you declared Plum innocent, why are you being so incomplete and so dodgy in refusing to provide reasoning when you declare Lowell innocent?

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dejkha:
For the second day in a row, you are being awfully non-contributive…

[Benmage]

Benmage:
Please answer my question to you in [182].

It doesn't seem like a mafia advantageous thing to do. (Even if mafia had a one-shot investigative move)

You can’t see any advantage to mafia if a mafia fakeclaims cop?

Uhm, not really.. because bad scenarios can occur. First it backfires and we don't believe Caboose and lynch him. Second (even worse and very doubtful) Plum is also scum, in which case we get two scum players.

Plus I just feel that scum wouldn't care to share this information. Caboose didn't really need to post it. Scum, imo would have kept this for their own use.

Caboose opened with this information.. it wasn't him attempting a roleclaim at L-1.

[Kieraen]

Weren't you already voting for Caboose, Kieraen? I don't think you get two votes.

No my vote has changed from Caboose to RBT and now back again.

Someone said I'm indecisive.... but I think...wait I dunno what I think about that!

[Kieraen]

@Emptiger. If we lynch Caboose we find out:

a) He's a one shot cop: Plum is townie, Lowell's claim has more significance.

b) He's mafia: Plum is more likely mafia, Lowell's claim looks like bullshit, thefore more likely mafia.

If a) is true lynching either Lowell or Plum is the most logical night kill for the mafia tonight. Plum because he is confirmed townie and thefore limits the number of lynchable suspects. Lowell because he is more likely to be speaking the trueth.
By having the doctor protect them one definitely lives with a possibility of neither dieing and a further possibility of a no night kill.

If b) is true, well then Plum is a more likely Mafia and Lowell also and we would needlessly be protecting mafia. However I think the reveals we get are worth the chance particularly if a) is true and we find 1, maybe 2, maybe 3 of our mafia in one move (unlikely but possible).

To be clear. the doctors role as proctecting either plum or lowell is more as a safeguard if we get it wrong in our lynch of Caboose. If he is townie, then we are more likely to get the benefits of having a confirmed townie and/or probably one shot tracker.

[Kieraen]

Caboose the best townie play would have been to make your claim as a 'cop' thus ensuring that the mafia would lynch you for your investigative abilities.

Claiming one shot cop means the mafia know you are now redundant and will focus on others who may also have one shot abilties an have not used it.

Whether mafia or town the play was poor.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Kieraen - Caboose's flipping as scum has very littlle to do with Lowell's flip.
Just because Caboose is scum who claimed a 1-shot, doesn't mean Lowell's claim is "bullshit".

[Kieraen]

Perhaps. But a one shot isn't something I've seen too frequently. It would be a nice coinceidence if mafia Caboose claims one shot cop, and townie Lowell claims one shot tracker to back him up.