War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Meh. Checks out at first glance.

[roflcopter]

xyl - are you against the hurting of hoopla? if not, why not join us in hurting hoopla?

[Xylthixlm]

xyl - are you against the hurting of hoopla? if not, why not join us in hurting hoopla?

I'll save you the trouble of playing 20 questions here.

People Xyl Is Against The Hurting Of

Xyl
Seraphim
The Fonz

The answer to the second question is "because I have a better target who also has a wagon".

[Albert B. Rampage]

Visques has been avoiding this thread a lot.

[Kinetic]

hurt:Shinnen

Yay anarchy

[Xylthixlm]

# Albert B. Rampage - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Nuwen,

Kinetic

(1)
# Drench - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# DrippingGoofball - Hurt by: Hoopla (1) Healed by: WeyounsLastClone/Cybelle (1)
# Giuseppe - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)

# Hoopla - Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, roflcopter

x2?

(2?) Healed by: (0)

# Juls - Hurt by: Xylthixlm (1) Healed by: zwetschenwasser (1)
# Kinetic - Hurt by: roflcopter (1) Healed by: Hoopla (1)
# Nuwen - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Albert B. Rampage (1)
# populartajo - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Tenchi (1)
# q21 - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: populartajo (1)
# roflcopter - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: DrippingGoofball (1)
# Seraphim - Hurt by: roflcopter (1) Healed by: Shinnen_no_Me, populartajo (2)

# Shinnen_no_Me - Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz, Kinetic (3) Healed by: Seraphim (1)

# Tenchi - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# The Fonz - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# vIQleS - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: WaltWishbone (1)

# WaltWishbone - Hurt by: DrippingGoofball, Xylthixlm, Nuwen, Xylthixlm (4) Healed by: vIQleS (1)

# WeyounsLastClone/Cybele (-1 HP) - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: q21 (1)

# Xylthixlm - Hurt by: Juls, zwetschenwasser (2) Healed by: Juls,

Drench

(1)
# zwetschenwasser - Hurt by: q21, Seraphim (2) Healed by: (0)

There has been no secret damage as of post 356.
Waiting for a mod damage update to determine whether roflcopter's attack on Hoopla counted double.

[Kinetic]

I'm going to laugh when town loses because the aggressive idiots are pushing the "hurt everyone, what is the worst that can happen" agenda...

If rage works how they think it does, I'm just waiting for the multiple scum kills incoming. -,-

[WaltWishbone]

I can support a WaltWishbone hurt now; his most recent attempt at 'scumhunting' focuses only on Xyl, supplemented with a chain of "I agrees." He's just responding to received attention and plucking out convenient stances to support.

Hurt: WaltWishbone - by flavor be purged!

Pot meet kettle? You have literally written nothing in any of your posts that contain any merit or added anything new to this game that has not already been stated. I am not sure what you feel your contribution has been to scumhunting, but I don't see it.... Your post seems extremely opportunistic and contain nothing more than vague statements to cover the fact you are doing nothing more than joining a bandwagon.

Thank you for the clarification. At his point I am going to return the favor and...

Heal: vIQleS

This is insanely antitown.

I propose from now on we masshurt anyone who heals without town consensus.

Consider it a policy lynch. THe Walt/ViQ counterhealing is just delaying the death time for TWO of the town's top suspects.

In theory it is a great idea, and it is what most people did to begin the game. However we are just not getting anywhere near a consensus or agreeing on proceeding with a fakevote. The town is mostly splintered; I am going to make the best use of my hurt/heal based on whats been posted thus far.

Intent to heal: Xyl

There is no case on him and the people attacking him have no basis and are some of the scummier players in the game. If Zwet flips scum, Juls is next.

There is a case on Xyl; his play has been extremely erratic since the start of the game and counterproductive. His entire strategy is based on acceptable town casualties, however when you do the math his idea is an epic failure. He has not taken into consideration our power roles and assumes he knows the set-up of this game... In fact he seems to at times slip into statements that would indicate he has full knowelege only scum would know. His case against me is non existent and yet he won't listen to the other people who keep telling him he is wrong.

Please point to what WaltWishbone has done that gives him town points.

He posted more than 1-liners.

More than 1-liners, by themselves, are not worth town points. What did he say

in

the more than 1-liners that is worth town points?

When did post length become indicative of town alignment?

Small post density and sparse analysis are really anti-town in this game, but that doesn't make the opposite pro-town. The likelihood of a long post being written by town or scum is no higher than random. Read what Walt actually posted - it's vacuous position-mongering.

One of the main topics of discussion through the course of the first 36 hours was how we would approach this game as a town. There was a lot of input from several different players and I explained my positions on each of these matters (fakevote, hurt/helps, ect) within my posts. I further went into detail on what I think of your strategy and the errors in your formula. I made opinions know on other matters that were and to a small degree still being debated regarding Kinetic, ABR, Tajo's, ect alignments... I am not saying I deserve any town points, I am just saying if MY post is on your barometer for scum, you all need to take a serious look at some other players and Nuwen, you need to take a serious look at yourself.

Xy, you need a better case on Walt than this:

No I don't. Here's a peak into the spinning gearwheels of my brain:

I start off wanting to kill

everyone

.

As people do townish things, I move them down the list of people I want to kill. People who don't do townish things stay at the top.

Then I do my best to get the people at the top of the list killed, by whatever means necessary.

So far, WaltWishbone has done almost nothing to move him down the list.

...and this is what's gonna cost the town the game. You are hurting people without any kind of case and I am town. It is a fail strategy, in no uncertain terms. You are not taking into account that if you kill all the townies yourself, scum doen't need to do a thing. You are not considering power roles and making assumptions on things you don't know.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Walt, you better hurt shinnen, hoopla or zwet.

[WaltWishbone]

Walt, you better hurt shinnen, hoopla or zwet.

Yeah I saw one of your posts earlier telling someone to read Hoopla in isolation. I am gonan do that now or in the morning, as well as look at shinnen and zwet. Although, someone earlier wrote that they either did a meta on him or played with him before and this was zwets normal play style?

[roflcopter]

walt stop stalling and use your hurt, preferably on hoopla

[Xylthixlm]

...and this is what's gonna cost the town the game. You are hurting people without any kind of case and I am town. It is a fail strategy, in no uncertain terms. You are not taking into account that if you kill all the townies yourself, scum doen't need to do a thing.

That's it right there, folks. "You're scum because you're attacking me and I'm town". A complete, 100% OMGUS attack.

[Albert B. Rampage]

...and this is what's gonna cost the town the game. You are hurting people without any kind of case and I am town. It is a fail strategy, in no uncertain terms. You are not taking into account that if you kill all the townies yourself, scum doen't need to do a thing.

That's it right there, folks. "You're scum because you're attacking me and I'm town". A complete, 100% OMGUS attack.

Um no. That quote is saying how if you kill off the townies, the scum don't have to.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Hurt: Rofl

for creating groups of "sure-protown-buddies", very scummy.

With an divine glow, Shinnen unsheathes her longsword, with the speed of a lighting, and swiftly yet precisely strikes the fallen Rofl's back, leaving a trial of fire as the edge cuts both the air and the flesh of the heathen.

I also read back Walt's post, and I couldn't really find a case on him. Xyl accused him of scumlurking, but I don't think anyone with a life can keep up actively to the post rate of this topic. The same happened with Hoppla. Yes, there are a few strange things, but nothing as scum like Rofl's and Fonz' attitude.

[Xylthixlm]

ABR: Read that post again. His case against me is that I am "counterproductive" and have a strategy based on "acceptable town casualties". You are supposed to infer that I am trying to kill townies, but he doesn't come out and say it. Then he raises the fear of "gonna cost the town the game", and his evidence is that

I am attacking him and he is town

.

[Xylthixlm]

I also read back Walt's post, and I couldn't really find a case on him. Xyl accused him of scumlurking, but I don't think anyone with a life can keep up actively to the post rate of this topic. The same happened with Hoppla. Yes, there are a few strange things, but nothing as scum like Rofl's and Fonz' attitude.

Read his posts again, but instead of looking for obviously scummy things, look for anything which someone could point back at and say "you were wrong!" later. Then share your results.

[roflcopter]

and shinnen just won the award for most obvious scum ever

[roflcopter]

ok, once i'm recharged, either shinnen or hoopla is getting another wallop, whichever one is closer to death.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

^Don't worry, that prize belongs to you.

I wonder how much longer would you last if you didn't have your scum buddies holding your back.

[The Fonz]

i'm taking the fact that the only person who has even bothered to comment on what i said about seraphim was xyl, and he's only defending him as town based on some whack meta, as evidence that i am right on the money

Or that people don't think there's enough on him, and would rather kill someone already injured so we don't end up with half the town hurt?

Hurt: Rofl

for creating groups of "sure-protown-buddies", very scummy.

Shinnen just hurt a previously uninjured player. KILL HER!

BTW, it's clear that tajo is leader of healer movement and the Fonz is leader of the aggressive movement...actually, I take that back, but he's definitely on the far end of that spectrum. At this point, I doubt either of them are scum.

According to your earlier definitions, I'm a moderate.

Albert B. Rampage, Nuwen, populartajo, q21, roflcopter, vIQleS, WeyounsLastClone, and Xylthixlm

THe above are guilty of partaking in the scum-favouring healing up plan. Putting this here to remind myself in future.

dude. i never healed anyone and i actively campaigned against this whole stupid healing thing in the first place. dgb healed me, but it was non consensual.

Fair point.

The answer is not "don't heal". The answer is "Every intent to heal cancels out an intent to hurt. Don't hurt someone unless you have more than enough intent to hurts to cancel out all the intent to heals. Don't heal someone unless you have more than enough intent to heals to cancel out all the intent to hurts."

The answer should be 'don't heal.' (Once we have dead scum, we might consider healing damage caused by said scum. And we need to heal Rofl after Shinnen is dead, as per the guidelines on 'lone wolf' attacks I set out earlier. But certainly not yet). Counterwagon.

fonz already broke down why tajo's plan makes him scum,

and i already broke down why you two are scum together, and with hoopla no less. since hoopla will be dying this aeon, i'll get back to you next aeon.

Swing and a miss. I've set out why his plan is hugely detrimental to town- but sticking his neck so far out for it is a protown tell. I'm certainly not ruling it out, but I think he's wrong rather than scum, and that the actual scum will be found in the large group of players much lurkier than Tajo.

I'm going to laugh when town loses because the aggressive idiots are pushing the "hurt everyone, what is the worst that can happen" agenda...

If rage works how they think it does, I'm just waiting for the multiple scum kills incoming. -,-

Again, who is actually pushing that? If Rage works as

I

think it does- on a time basis- then the scumkills are a worse threat the more we stall.

Does anyone know, PRECISELY, how rage worked last time?

In theory it is a great idea, and it is what most people did to begin the game. However we are just not getting anywhere near a consensus or agreeing on proceeding with a fakevote. The town is mostly splintered; I am going to make the best use of my hurt/heal based on whats been posted thus far.

NO NO NO! It is a bad idea IN THEORY!

Too many suspects are completely dismissing the objections to them as 'you have no case' which isn't getting us anywhere. For starters Walt, that little 'scratch my back, i scratch yours' thing is a good reason to think you are scum.

[Xylthixlm]

I also read back Walt's post, and I couldn't really find a case on him. Xyl accused him of scumlurking, but I don't think anyone with a life can keep up actively to the post rate of this topic. The same happened with Hoppla. Yes, there are a few strange things, but nothing as scum like Rofl's and Fonz' attitude.

Read his posts again, but instead of looking for obviously scummy things, look for anything which someone could point back at and say "you were wrong!" later. Then share your results.

Oh, and while you're at it, look for anything in his posts which would make you think "I think X is scum" or "I think X is town" if he died and came up scum. Scum don't like making connections to their buddies.

[Xylthixlm]

Swing and a miss. I've set out why his plan is hugely detrimental to town- but sticking his neck so far out for it is a protown tell. I'm certainly not ruling it out, but I think he's wrong rather than scum, and that

the actual scum will be found in the large group of players much lurkier than Tajo.

QFT. I'm also betting that most of the scum either supported tajo's plan or didn't take a position.

[The Fonz]

Time for the first semi-regular LURK UPDATE:

WeyounsLastClone has yet to post.
Drench has three posts with any kind of content.
Giuseppe has indicated V/LA, but also not contributed yet at all- getting him stuck in as soon as he returns is a priority.

[Kinetic]

The answer is not "don't heal". The answer is "Every intent to heal cancels out an intent to hurt. Don't hurt someone unless you have more than enough intent to hurts to cancel out all the intent to heals. Don't heal someone unless you have more than enough intent to heals to cancel out all the intent to hurts."

The answer should be 'don't heal.' (Once we have dead scum, we might consider healing damage caused by said scum. And we need to heal Rofl after Shinnen is dead, as per the guidelines on 'lone wolf' attacks I set out earlier. But certainly not yet). Counterwagon.

I'm sorry, but I'm really starting to get sick of your complete hate of the healing mechanic...

Its like saying "Everyone has unlimited votes, but you're not allowed to unvote, that is not townie..."

As far as I'm concerned there are some situations where healing is inappropriate (when there is a defined wagon in particular), but there are some situations when healing is not just appropriate, but is the most pro-town thing to do.

Some of these situations include, but are not limited to: Once a set "lynch" is decided, some of the players should heal up players who are not the lynch target. We need to have the highest average health among the town as possible.

I agree, we don't know exactly how rage mechanics work, but that doesn't mean we just ignore how they have worked in the past. A good counter strategy to how rage mechanics worked in the past that does not do ANYTHING to the town is to keep a high average health. And that also means healing players who are both not current lynch targets and healing former lynch targets.

I am getting SICK of players just doing things their own way with no regard to the town at large.

The fact that you are SO against healing and so FOR having a low average town health shows a COMPLETE and utter disregard for pro-town play.

There are points for aggressiveness, but there is no reason for recklessness, and some players, not just you Fonz, are toeing that line way too willingly.

[q21]

Admittedly, in WW's case town points may be too strong a term, but I've seen nothing to make me want to see him dead. If I'm reading him wrong at the moment and he is scum I'm not too worried. Because if he continues to make big/decent length posts he will trap himself. If he suddenly stops he'll be suspicious for that.

Okay. Please point out something in any of his posts

so far

that could trap him in the future.

I'm not going to go dig through his posts now when I don't even suspect him at the moment.

You've presented your opinion on why town lost many times, you miserable self-centred piece of shit. That doesn't change the fact that you're wrong, and your plan is incredibly scum-benefitting because it will slow the game down and allow the scum to rack up more rage points.

I REPEAT FOR THE HARD OF THINKING: TAJO'S PLAN = HANDING THE GAME TO SCUM.

I am SO fucking angry right now.

Tajo plan is not inherently flawed, but it does require the cooperation of close to the entire town and deadlines that are adhered to. If these are lacking it becomes a distraction. I argued for it for a while because it can work.

Now, though, it has become clear that the time it would take to convince everyone would be more detrimental than adopting any of the plans/conventions on offer. Hence Call to hut Zwet.

Does anyone know, PRECISELY, how rage worked last time?

Each fallen angel got one rage point every week, Sunday noon if I remember correctly. They could store rage points up to a maximum of 3 and distribute them as and when they saw fit.

Hurt: Rofl

for creating groups of "sure-protown-buddies", very scummy.

With an divine glow, Shinnen unsheathes her

longsword

, with the speed of a lighting, and swiftly yet precisely strikes the fallen Rofl's back, leaving a trial of fire as the edge cuts both the air and the flesh of the heathen.

hurt: hoopla

with a giant flaming angel

sword

of justice

It would appear we have two seraphim, we'll need to wait for the next official hurt count to be sure. If it is the case I'm going to be all for killing Shinnen and if she comes up town rolfcopter is next. I don't see two town seraphim.