War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[vIQleS]

/firmcon

[vIQleS]

I know the town technically lost last time, but I still think that voting is the best tactic. Random anything at this point has a 75% chance of hitting town.

I was going to agree with this:

I don't understand the healing of players
that haven't taken damage yet. Somebody explain?

I was thinking that it would make sense to save the healing as a defense against sneak scum attacks... But at this point in the game I doubt that scum will have many rage points - if any. (Last game, it took a week before rage started to accumulate).

So - heal, umm, WaltWishbone?

And FOS: Xylthixlm

Just try to concentrate your fire on people who are already hurt, rather than wearing everyone down at once. That will make it harder for scum to suddenly kill townies using secret damage.

Actually - he's already been fosed.

Vote:Xylthixlm

I don't agree with ABR or Kinetic - but I think they both have some good points - what we need to do is sift out the good ideas and come up with a plan / system.

I'll have another readthrough later in the day and get back to you..

[vIQleS]

hoopla is also scum...

people voting xyl should get over it because he's clearly town. abr is town too.

I really don't like people who make definitive statements like these - especially if there's no way that they could have any info.

If you have suspicions, then present your argument. If you don't think people are convinced, then present it again - expand and clarify. Just repeating declaritive statements does not further the game...

FOS:copter

Random anything at this point has a 75% chance of hitting town.

How can you be so sure? That's a pretty solid number, you know. The only way you would know that is that you know how much scum there are, hence, you must be a scum as well.

Based on a standard mafia setup - 1 scum to 3 town. i.e. (as has already been mentioned) in a 12 player game you get 3 scum.

But that's ok - I forgive you...

[vIQleS]

abr's 110 is pure gold

i agree, tajo is town.
tajo, i'm not hurting with no order, i'm hurting the scummiest person and encouraging everyone else to hurt that same person. its organized.

speaking of organize, i'm organizing a brute squad, and inducting the following obviously town people into it immediately: abr, xyl, dgb, and tajo (if he'll accept). we should all agree on one person and put them down. over and over, until we've killed all the scum.

Yes, but that person is only scum in your opinion - other people may have different people in mind and they may have better reasons. If you can convince enough people to vote your way, then you may very well be right and then we can mass hurt

as a team

.

And just to prove my previous point - I've made a list of 'people who are obviously town'. I'm betting there's at least one scum in there.

[vIQleS]

I really don't like people who make definitive statements like these - especially if there's no way that they could have any info.

If you have suspicions, then present your argument. If you don't think people are convinced, then present it again - expand and clarify. Just repeating declaritive statements does not further the game...

FOS:copter

How hypocritical. Why are you taking it out on copter, but not DGB?

I think you're confused about the meaning of the word hypocritical. Unless you can provide an example of where I've made a declaritive statement such as those above. (I may have done so in the past, but I'm betting that it was probably backed up with solid argument)

I did notice DBG, but I didn't see it as quite so pernicious. If it makes you feel better -

FOS:DBG

. I'm still not attacking either of them. These are only fosses - the purpose of which is simply to draw attention to possibly scummy behaviour.

Why are you defending roflcopter?

[vIQleS]

Why are you defending roflcopter?

Let me help you with that by directing you here. Nowhere have I defended copter.

You have deserved my second vote.

Vote: vIQleS

I'll grant you that. You're right, I did, and I apologize.

However it still feels a little bit like you were trying to lessen the attention on rofl. And the fact that it was subltle makes it worse. No fos yet, but you're close. And your use of the word attack is a bit of a strawman. Or maybe poisoning the well - either way I didn't like it.

...look beyond your petty dramas...

Now that's hypocrisy...

[vIQleS]

Oops - didn't bold...

Random

heal:WaltWishbone

with a blazing sword of healing and so forth

To be fair - I don't think there was an official agreement. And i think that xyl was on the con side of the debate... Still think randomhurt is a bad idea tho...

I'm tempted to unvote now - this seems a little too obviously scummy. if he's scum he's not playing it safe. Could be WIFOM.

Vote stays...

[vIQleS]

Also, this prevents us to see true accountability on Hurt and Heal actions. If we let Hurt and Heal actions to be as natural as possible then we will be able to dig through better intentions of each ad every person.

On another note, I totally agree with the fake voting system because it lets us express our disagreements and scum hunting without putting innocent people in jeopardy.

You can't agree with both of these - the vote system is specifically designed to make the hurting less haphazard and therefore less 'natural'

This was said after some people told him not to post definitive statements without explanation.

No one told anyone anything. Opinions were expressed. Suspicion was cast...

Good catch.

FoS: ViQ

. I renew Shinnen's question, how are you so sure about the distribution?

115

[vIQleS]

the more you try to slander me, the more it will not work

Technically that was liable - because it was written. It is, of course, only liable if its not true. I'm just saying...

Assuming everything that is said about rage mechanics is true in this game, that means at most scum can only hold up to 3 rage points.

Did someone say that? Because I don't remember anyone else saying that... I'm going to bed - can someone check this please.

Blah blah blah

I'm not going to argue the 75% crap anymore. I've answered the question and if you really need to grasp at straws at this point then you're out of your tiny little minds.

I'm not going to be around tomorrow - rehearsal in the morning and filming in the afternoon (2 different things)... If there's any way, I'll try to check in at about 1440 - JIC there's hurting to be done.

[vIQleS]

Just so it's on record - my picks for scum at this point are Xyl, DGB, and albert.

That probably seems a bit OMGUS, but the fact that they're focussing on me instead of someone who's really scummy is really scummy.

Clearly you're not understanding what I'm saying AT ALL, but none of my assessments are based on the speed with which conclusions are reached.

Seems to me you haven't actually said anything at all yet - all I remember from you (again no time to check sorry) is "xyz is scum".

...name. You may store them up, to a maximum of 3. If you are killed/cast out, you lose any remaining points.

Thank you. Carry on.

[vIQleS]

OK - I'm back (mostly)

I've done a skim read, and there's a few things i want to reply to. Hopefully I'll be able to post later in the day when i've had a chance to take my time and read a bit more carefully...

[vIQleS]

Neither shine nor hoop are on my radar scum-wise.

At this point it seems the best option is to hurt one of them, and I expect I shall do so when I have ability back.

I will have to read carefully to see which of them I can build a case for. (If I can at all. If not I'll probably have to hurt Xyl)

[vIQleS]

I read something that made me think that Shinnen was more likely town then hoopla (who seems fairly neutral at the mo.) but I can't remember what it was. I need to do some more reading.

Scummy to me at the moment:

Xyl
Kenetic
Rofl
ABR

I'm thinking DGB is less scummy then my last post - although my reasoning here could be flawed...

Reading to be done, then post more. Then hurting. Possibly Shinnen, just to see the kill and hence results. Then examine the bandwagon...

[vIQleS]

And it is KINETIC, no E, I am not one of Barbie's plastic friends.

Dude - you think you've got problems?

While I haven't by any stretch of the imagination cleared any of the people on your list, I'm at least looking at all the possibilities. Honestly, by this point in the game I'm tired of looking at the more active side. I've fenced directly with ABR, and indirectly with Xyl and Rofl. You, on the other hand, have pretty much tried to stay out of any arguments and have made bupkis but OMGUS and some mild pointing out of things you thought might help you...

Now reading you in isolation I'm more concrete about my suspicions of you.

[snip]

Anyway, you've already made your case why this isn't scummy, so I'll ask you not to reiterate it and focus on the other points I bring up, I'm just putting it here so that the entirety of your play is obvious.

(Last game, it took a week before rage started to accumulate).

Same post... but I hadn't realized you were in the last game... This piqued my interest because of something you tried to nail me on later in the game...

Assuming everything that is said about rage mechanics is true in this game, that means at most scum can only hold up to 3 rage points.

Did someone say that? Because I don't remember anyone else saying that... I'm going to bed - can someone check this please.

My question here was not about the last game, but (and you yourself answered this) "had this been mentioned in the thread or did you have some inside knowledge"....

I later re-posted the role PM that was posted earlier... but it didn't hit me until I re-read you and realized you were SCUM in the last game...

You knew this was true. Knew it without even needing to look it up... So I wondered, why on earth would you need someone to look it up for you?

I knew it was true (although I hadn't remembered the exact number to be honest). What I wanted to know was how did

you

know it was true. This has now been answered to my satisfaction.

I don't think I've mentioned the last game at all (other than the example above) - there has been a couple of questions where I was all set to answer, but in each case someone else beat me to it. (this is a very swift game)

blah blah

And now it begs the question:

Begging the question... At least try and get your logical fallacies right...

I'll be the first to admit I haven't contributed much yet. I don't have the sort of time that some of you seem to have, and after my assesment of shinnen, I really don't trust my abilty to pick scum.

I do think that it would be an extraordinary coincidence (or some sort of superhuman abilty) if the other suspects at the moment turn out to also be scum. However as I've just mentioned, I think I'm going to have to learn to trust my instincts less and maybe go with the majority.

Oh, we can all play the same game of grouping people under groups without good bases (in your case, with no bases at all):

Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr.

I find it funny that you (rofl) say that Seraphim doesn't give reasons for saying which players he want dead/find scummy, yet you do the same thing. Hypocrite. I don't like people who point out things in other players, while they are doing the same under lame excuses.

I could bet all my money that there is no scum in that list.

My guess would be at least 1, maybe 2. FWIW...

[vIQleS]

Yesterday consensus was easy only because we had to decide between rolf and Shinnen.

I thought we were deciding between Hoop and shinnen?

Last time I heard about you, viq, you were going to tell us why Shinnen was town to you. Im still waiting.

Fair call - if anyone thinks it still relevant, I'll try and have a look. Unfortunately I also have to work, as I've spent a considerable amount of time over the last few (work) days doing this instead of working and I don't want to get in trouble.

I'll try and do a read tonight. (I have a feeling that there was something that seemed like such a scummy thing to say that no one who was scum would say something like that. So it may turn out to be a bit WIFOM...)

[vIQleS]

Just checking in (skim read to catch up) to say that i'd really like to see a Juls lynch next.

That whole "when you kill me you'll see ABR...", and "don't kill ABR..." really bothers me.

[vIQleS]

OK - I think we've all decided that I suck at this - so I'm going to go with the consensus. Which I'm sure is a scummy thing to do, but .5 of the town thinks I'm scum anyway - (you see how I did that - exact numbers biatch ).

Anyway - I'm ready to hurt now, so who's at the top of the most lists (except for me)?

Does Walt have the most damage at the mo.?

(Xyl - can you put a total damage in your summary please?)

I'm really short of time and really busy over the next few days at least, so I'll be posting infrequently. I'll try and read as much as I can to try and keep up.

[vIQleS]

Well I don't. But then I didn't think Shinnen was scum either - and apparently there was some really huge scumtells that everyone else picked up on...

You raise a vaild point tho, so I'm going to be decisive and:

Hurt:Juls

Just because of the ABR following / defending. Just doesn't seem right to me.

[vIQleS]

OMFG - I've completely and definitively answered all but one of those points.


And to cover why I haven't been hurting (because scum will have already figured it out) - I am an ophan. I've been watching xyl. Is that what you wanted to confirm?

I don't have a problem with agressive, I have a problem with people who argue like creationists. In fact some of those people are less scummy then I originally thought, and others more.

Kinetic had some sort of vaguely scummy vibe early on. I'm not even sure i still see it, but I'm focussing on the top three or four at the moment.

[vIQleS]

vIQleS: Thanks for saying who you're targeting. If I was scum, I would make sure my scumbuddies used any necessary rage instead of me.

/me waits for xyl to reread...

[vIQleS]

What am I supposed to be rereading?

I am an ophan. I've been watching xyl.

Anyway - I'm ready to hurt now...

Hurt:Juls

.

Geddit?

[vIQleS]

For instance, you shone the spotlight on every possible ophan.

No, because not all the Ophans were stupid enough to observe in the first week of the game.

Hey - screw you...

You never know - all we needed was for a scum to start the game with rage points, or to talk to each other or something... In hindsight I probably would have saved it up...

Now I'm going to watch scummy people at random times (or maybe non-scummy - no one will ever know who I'm watching).

There's probably not going to be any rage damage for ages yet - they'll be wanting to save it up for a definite kill. The only possible exception is if we get a townie down to 3 and then decide not to continue...

So I won't be watching anyone for a while... (Or will I?)

I'm not lurking. I'm reading the thread again from the beginning. hopefully I'll be able to glean something worth commenting on.

[vIQleS]

Hey, viq, I asked for targets and timestamps.
You might as well answer my post.

You mean the people I've watched?

Xyl. At 1440 Sun (my time)

Twas 24 hours after: 143

Does that help you somehow?

[vIQleS]

Why Xyl, huh? Did you think that scum would use rage points when it was too early?

That is directed to viqles.

Yep.

I thought I might as well, just in case. I don't have a good solid logical reason. I didn't sit and agonise over the decision for hours. I just thought I had a power and so I should try and use it as much as possible.

[vIQleS]

Answer my big post of accusations, plz. We might as well test if you are an Ophan, just in case. Just because you claimed Ophan, that doesn mean you are town.

Didn't say it did. Although it's more likely than if I was a Seriphim...

I watched ViQlEs. He's an Ophan.

I figured that was what you meant.

We might as well test if you are an Ophan, just in case.

Hang on - you're criticizing me for using my powers when it was unlikely that scum would be doing anything, and now you want me to do the exact same thing again, only this time telling the scum first so they know exactly when it's not safe to do stuff?

Seems a waste to me...

[vIQleS]

Answer my big post of accusations, plz.

hoopla is also scum...

I really don't like people who make definitive statements like these - especially if there's no way that they could have any info.

We know, specially rolf, how much scum hate this type of statements.

If you have suspicions, then present your argument. If you don't think people are convinced, then present it again - expand and clarify. Just repeating declaritive statements does not further the game...
FOS:copter

Nice FOS there.

Umm, thank you?

Random anything at this point has a 75% chance of hitting town.

How can you be so sure? That's a pretty solid number, you know. The only way you would know that is that you know how much scum there are, hence, you must be a scum as well.

Based on a standard mafia setup - 1 scum to 3 town. i.e. (as has already been mentioned) in a 12 player game you get 3 scum.
But that's ok - I forgive you...

Please, tell me Im not the only one seeing there is something stinky in this conversation. Considering that was the only comment Shinnen made about viq and how he suspected Kinetic, xyl and rolf/ARB later.

Not sure what your question to me is here....

I really don't like people who make definitive statements like these - especially if there's no way that they could have any info.
If you have suspicions, then present your argument. If you don't think people are convinced, then present it again - expand and clarify. Just repeating declaritive statements does not further the game...
FOS:copter

How hypocritical. Why are you taking it out on copter, but not DGB?

OMG!

Is that addressed to me? Am I your God? You'd think you'd be a little bit nicer if I am...

I did notice DBG, but I didn't see it as quite so pernicious. If it makes you feel better - FOS:DBG. I'm still not attacking either of them

Actually, I think that scum tried to concentrate efforts on rolf. DGB's bussing is possible, though.

Why are you defending roflcopter?

Lies.

136

Assuming everything that is said about rage mechanics is true in this game, that means at most scum can only hold up to 3 rage points.

Did someone say that?Because I don't remember anyone else saying that... I'm going to bed - can someone check this please.

Weren't you scum in the last game?

732

I'm not going to argue the 75% crap anymore. I've answered the question and if you really need to grasp at straws at this point then you're out of your tiny little minds.

SO, ITS CRAP NOW? WHY WASNT IT WHEN SHINNEN BROUGHT IT?

It was crap when the first person mentioned it. I was being nice the first time. Now I'm sick of it.

I'm not even going to bother to link this...

Neither shine nor hoop are on my radar scum-wise.
At this point it seems the best option is to hurt one of them, and I expect I shall do so when I have ability back.
I will have to read carefully to see which of them I can build a case for. (If I can at all. If not I'll probably have to hurt Xyl)

Oh, yes, would it be too obvious if I hurt Shinnen?

There seems to be a ridiculous lack of questions in this tirade you're expecting me to 'answer'...

I read something that made me think that Shinnen was more likely town then hoopla (who seems fairly neutral at the mo.) but I can't remember what it was. I need to do some more reading.

I AM STILL WAITING.

Yes, yes you are. Although I expect you're the only one at this point.

I really don't see why this is still relevant. And, if you'd let me get on with reading instead of making me answer your retarded non-questions and address points that have been decisively and conclusively answered and dealt with, I might have been able to find it and get back to you by now.

I expect it had something to do with shinnen attacking someone that wasn't already under attack, and that a scum wouldn't be so obvious. I can't remember and I can't be bothered anymore.

Scummy to me at the moment:
Xyl
Kenetic
Rofl
ABR
I'm thinking DGB is less scummy then my last post - although my reasoning here could be flawed...
Reading to be done, then post more. Then hurting. Possibly Shinnen, just to see the kill and hence results. Then examine the bandwagon...

The fact that 4 of the players he thinks are scummier are players I think are town is strange.

purple monkey dishwasher

Fair call - if anyone thinks it still relevant, I'll try and have a look. Unfortunately I also have to work, as I've spent a considerable amount of time over the last few (work) days doing this instead of working and I don't want to get in trouble.
I'll try and do a read tonight. (I have a feeling that there was something that seemed like such a scummy thing to say that no one who was scum would say something like that. So it may turn out to be a bit WIFOM...)

LESS EXCUSES, PLUZ.

Bite me. I get hassled for 'lurking' and I get hassled for explaining why I'm not posting as much as I'd like... GFY.

Just checking in (skim read to catch up) to say that i'd really like to see a Juls lynch next.
That whole "when you kill me you'll see ABR...", and "don't kill ABR..." really bothers me.

It shouldnt. Explain why.

Explain why not...

What happened to your other suspects, huh? Why didnt you hurt Hoopla?

1093

Well I don't. But then I didn't think Shinnen was scum either - and apparently there was some really huge scumtells that everyone else picked up on...
You raise a vaild point tho, so I'm going to be decisive and:
Hurt:Juls
Just because of the ABR following / defending. Just doesn't seem right to me.

Such a weak reason.

Happy?

[vIQleS]

Hmm - I thought I posted but it doesn't seem to have gone through.

hurt:walt

. Lets get that out of the way, and then we can kill juls or X.

[vIQleS]

lol.

I just thought of something:

Anyone who hurts Walt at this point, including any of our other claimed Seraphim, can no longer claim to be town confirmed or believe that our claimed Seraphim, namely rofl or nuwen, are town confirmed.

By hurting Walt you consent to the possibility that Seraphim can still be scum even though we've killed one that was scum. Thus, there is no way you can use the fact that Rofl or Nuwen are Seraphim as a reason for them being town again.

And thus, any Seraphim who later claim to be Seraphim who are hiding now, if they hurt Walt after this point, they are just was well claiming there could be scum Seraphim still alive...

You must argue on the merits of their play, and not their role to confirm them at this point.

I am certainly not treating anyone as confirmed town. Especially not waffle...

Nuwen I'm not sure - I love her posts and the way she's playing, but the thing about good players is they're also good at being scum...

DGB - is the highest on my tomwie list, but only because she's confirmed ophan, and i'm working on the assumption that ophanim are probably not scum. (mainly because there's no point to a scum ophan - except as a 'safeclaim' of course...)

PS - I'm also suspicious of anyone claiming confirmed town on anyone. You know who you are...

[vIQleS]

From my iPhone

Is this one of those sayings that you atack on to any sentence - like "...in bed at night." or "...so's your face."?

I like it - from my iPhone...

[vIQleS]

Viqles, what q21 is saying is true?

Sunday was definitely the day - I don't remember if it started right away. Hang on - I'll check...

Oh - you found it. nm...

I don't think I have a record of anything like that. We were just keeping track of it in our heads... (it wasn't a lot of numbers to figure out...)

But this means it's possible that the scum could have 8 ish* points to distribute soon - that's one person...

* Numbers quoted are estimates only and are subject to change without notice...

[vIQleS]

And I can see that this has already been said, so I'm going to go to work now and do some reading.

Juls
Xyl
ABR
Rofl

This will change today I'm sure...

[vIQleS]

FS is scum - we should kill him.

(Just kidding )

[vIQleS]

In the other two games this didnt happen.
So No.

I don't know why you are so definate.

It might be unlikely, but I can see how it could happen. (Mr Flay did mention the possibility of different roles at the end of the last game...

[vIQleS]

I know the situations arent the same but we can optimize the use of Walt even if he is scum. There are advantages and disadvantages in each of the routes we could take but you all know that we can take care of the probable SK with only 1 HURT in this game.

No need to explain the downside of hurting Walt right now if he is town.

No - the best argument so far (assuming that a large number of people think that walt is scum) is to kill him to minimise rage power. no matter how useful he is, there's no way you can justify the potential harm he can cause with possibly 2 rage points (enough to tip the scales for an immediate kill)

We need to kill scum quickly

[vIQleS]

I would look in VIQ direction next, his hurt/help is absolutely out of place.

What do you mean by "hurt/help"?

I've been advocating from the beginning, consensus hurting. I don't see the case against you but it doesn't make any sense to have multiple people at low health.

I'm going to keep hurting with consensus or attempt to create a consensus if I think someone deserves to die on my iPhone.

Right now I'm happy with some of the people that are in the queue. And I'll be hurting juls at about 1930 tonight (my time)

[vIQleS]

You really dont know Walt's flip?
Really?

Dont you know to analyse people's reactions when they think they are dead?

I've played plenty of times as scum where even though I knew 100% that I was dead, I've still deathposted as though I was town, just to mess with people. I can't be sure, but I think it may have even paid off on at least one occasion where we'd miscounted...

If Walt is dead, I would propose backing up behind Juls.

WaltWishbone has 10 damage.

Can I suggest that we don't heal people that we've just spent days hurting... This is a SERIOUS waste of resources. We either need to leave him where he is, or kill him off.

Unless something's happened that has confirmed someone as town, which I honestly don't see happening in this game.
(Huge FOS to everyone who is refering to anyone as 'confirmed town')

Anyways, this is why Walt's apparent trust of Nuwen/roflcopter didn't fit with his Seraph claim. Having four claimed Seraphs makes it much more likely that two of them are scum.

Speaking of which - have we confirmed that all of these are in fact seriphim?

[vIQleS]

vIQles is playing this game exactly as he did the first mini... Writing, but saying nothing.

To be fair - that's how I play most of my games.

When I first started playing I didn't post if I didn't have anything to say. Then I got accused of lurking and so I learnt to post on a regular basis, even if I didn't feel like I had anything to contribute.

This is probably why I get lynched early on so often...

I think I've said everything I want to say, and I've fingered everyone that I think is scummy. I've been playing from work and from home (and from different work locations as well) and so I haven't been able to keep detailed notes on why I think people are scum. I don't know that I can go back and find any good arguments, which is probably what's needed...

At the moment (pending some free time to go though and find some good hard evidence):

kin
xyl
juls

rofl
abr

everybody else

Least scummy:

DGB (only because she's an ophan)
Nuwen (only because of outstandingly good posts)

[vIQleS]

Where the hell did Viq go?

Sorry - i'm trying to read last nights backlog. I am playing and i'll post some ideas as soon as i can...

Each player will be rated as such: ObvTown, MostlyTown, Neutral, NotTown, ProbScum

Albert B. Rampage - Netrual

I thought he was scum a while back but his exchange with Kinetic don't read scummy to be. However, he has been passive and manipulative but anything scum tells have been countered by town tells. So not scum. Yet.

Firestarter(replaced Drench) - Neutral

Not enough of a read yet. Drench was lurky and scummy but Firestarter has been solid so far. Finish reread please.

DrippingGoofball - MostlyTown

Nothing scummy happening here and has presented solid reasoning most of the game. DGB is just being DGB.

Giuseppe - Neutral

Lurked most of the game but has returned with some solid content lately. No read yet.

Kinetic - MostlyTown

Some early game scuffles made him look scummy but not scummy enough to warrant the wonton attacking by rofl and others. Major ego.

Nuwen - MostlyTown

A premature hammer puts a damper on the outstanding towniness of this player. Not sure what to make of Walt hammer but player has been solid town besides that.

populartajo - ObvTown

Tajo is Tajo and is not scum. Though he was kinda...yeah...earlier in the game, his intentions are definitely town.

q21 - NotTown

I thought he might have been town early on but he's been tunneling on zwet like nuts. Going for a policy lynch?

roflcopter - NotTown

Erratic play and non-consensus hurting. Walt flip does NOT look good.

Seraphim - ObvTown

Obviously town.

Tenchi - Neutral

Lurker back from the dead. More content, please?

The Fonz - ObvTown

Probably the towniest player all game. Very calculated, very logical, lacking huge ego. Easily towniest player in the game.

vIQleS - NotTown

Has been towing the line between scum and town all game. Claimed Ophan which is interesting. Most likely to be scum Ophan if there is one.

WeyounsLastClone(replaced Cybele) - ProbScum

Not sure if anyone has noticed his lackluster contribution and how he's jumped onto almost every wagon since he replaced in. His predecessor lurked. I'm looking for some support on this one.

Xylthixlm - ProbTown

Still no scum read but aren't you supposed to be more aggressive?

zwetschenwasser - Neutral

Zwet is zwet.

I'd just like to reiterate here that a good player <> town.

In fact at this point i'm thinking that there's some very good players in the scum team.

Kinetic, Loyal Cherub, was cast out of Heaven.

Damnit. This is getting ridiculous - see comment above.

OTOH - Every town we kill means the odds of us hitting scum the next time go up.

We just can't let the game get any more unbalanced. We are dangerously close to scum having too much power.

I'm betting next lynch will be scum.

I want to know if any Ophanim saw anything before hurting.

I've been watching nuwen. i haven't had any messages back yet, so until the end of my watching period, i'll go ahead and say that nuwen wasn't involved in the rage attack on kinetic.

[vIQleS]

OH - and i think we should try the voting idea again - although with some provisos based on the objections stated.

I think it needs to be as fast as poss, so that it doesn't drag on for days...

Majority has to be considered at this point - how many scum do we have? 4?

I'm guessing that 50% isn't going to happen - so we'll have to pick a number that's fast enough to not let scum build up points, but doesn't allow scum to dominate.

[vIQleS]

Very simple, Firestarter. The voting system will result in a deadlock with equal players on each side.

The benefits of the current plan are:

1) it stops us from being in complete anarchy
2) it is easily enforceable (no need to wait for vote counts, no need to wait for every player to weigh in)
3) any abuse in the system can be spotted and dealt with
4) it keeps the game moving without the fallen accumulating too much rage

Given the lurkers / people without strong opinions, it would be too hard to establish a majority of players agreeing, and it would take too long.

Also, discussing a change of plan at this point sidetracks us from catching scum and stalls the game, which is what we want to avoid at all cost as I just mentioned.

And so far - it's not working.

I don't know what we can do at this point - no one seems to want to cooperate with anything

[vIQleS]

Ah, I've had an idea. Designate a specific player as designated enforcer, on a 24 hr rota. That player may not harm or heal of their own volition, but will be required to enforce the hurting without support rule (not needing support). If they break it, everyone else in the scheme masshurts, no questions asked.

We don't even need full compliance for this, as long as there's enough partaking to defend the system.

I think it's a bit late to be coming up with new complicated plans...

I think the best way may be to just carry on - but insisting on (3?) intents before hurting... Even this I'm not sure about because it still seems easy for scum to manipulate the system...


--==--

I'll support (and participate in) a WLC or ABR hurt.

As soon as my watch expires, I'll be hurting whoever has the most support... (least? you know what I mean...)

--===--

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Xyl and Rofl are not both scum. It is possible that they are both town, but I've had them both on my scum list since very early on.

Given that - how likely is it that rofl is scum? if he kills Xyl on his own (and X flips town), then he must know that he'll be killed immediately. Is it worth it to scum at the moment to sacrifice 1 scum for 1 town?

Based on this logic (comments appreciated), Xyl is more likely to be scum.

[vIQleS]

No, it is to stop random damage and consolidate wagons. You don't have nukes because you want to use them.

Wait - are you suggesting that we play this game using MAD? We shouldn't be hurting people?

He is an Ophan and I really dont think scum have Ophans.
In case scum have Ophans, scum will have to kill them sooner or later since they can be dangerous.
We shouldnt hurt any of them.

?
This doesn't make any sense. If scum have orphan they're going to kill them?

How the hell are scum orphans dangerous for scum?

Hehe. Well, i suspect basically everyone. But making people stick their necks out for one particular lynch is much more informative.

Tajo, how about this. Once WLC, is dead, we give your system a try. Split phases. First two days, people vote for whoever. Third day, we require people to choose between the top two wagons (or the first and however many are tied for second, if there is such a tie). End of third day, masshurt.

heck, if we do this, there's even time to massheal Firestarter before we need to masshurt.

Stalling. How is it a good thing to not use powers?

Ironically, I'm not very far from being confirmed town.

You fucking what? I know I'm reading fast to try and catch up, but what the hell did I miss?

I don't see how anyone can be confrimed town in this game ever. (until dead...)

WLC is not dead.

How would you know this? You've said it twice now and you seem very certain...

Guys, dont miss the fact that there has to be a scum between rolf and Nuwen. We should take care of this today not when its too late.

I've seen a lot of people saying this, but I don't think I've seen any posts where a good argument is made...

i really, really disagree with anyone who thinks viqles is scum. just re-read shinnen's absolutely crap attacks against him and you'll see why.

You know what i read here - "I know that vIQleS is town, but I want to bring his name up and mention that other people think he's susipcious, so that people will start hurting him and voting him again..."

Am I being paranoid?

[vIQleS]

Vote:

ABR
Xyl
Rofl

[vIQleS]

The metatron is gods voice. (According to dogma the movie)...

Passing messages on or something?

Buggered if I know how that relates to role...

So Q21 was Satan - what was your win then? SK?

Bah - you guys all suck.

I'm not sure if that was sterling play by Scum, or whether that was all town's fault.

Was DGB a Ophan then? She got me - before I revealed... Lucky guess?

[vIQleS]

I forget - why didn't tenchi claim?

Could he have verified?

[vIQleS]

/prein

[vIQleS]

Just reading through the QT...

DrippingGoofball 173
03-29-2009 03:28 PM ET (US)

Yes, your idea is a good one, don't mind my arguments, they're only 'window dressing.'

NOTE TO ALLL SCUMPALS:

Viqles: "As soon as my watch expires, I'll be hurting whoever has the most support... (least? you know what I mean...) "

As soon as he hurts someone, that's our cue to dump RPs, especially on zwet.

NuwenPerson was signed in when posted 200
03-30-2009 04:30 PM ET (US)

I'm still waiting on Viq to hurt/heal, or for the 72 hour mark after he first mentioned that he was watching me.

The funny thing is - my plan was to try and do a fake hurt and then watch someone else. Can't remember who... Probably wouldn't have got that lucky twice in a row...

[vIQleS]

My new goal in life is to play as scum with DGB and / or Nuwen.

[vIQleS]

I panicked the most when players were considering healing another. It was wasting our hurts, our rage points, it could have blacked us out in the QT (each death was only 48 hours of daytalk), and we could have gotten caught trying to kill a player, resulting in a confirmed townie... heals were disasters for us.

Except for the heals on me! Those were good.

We didn't know about the daytalk limit either of course. There was nothing like that in the last one. Or the fact that you got RP for town death.

We definately could have won this if we'd slowed it down. And no one was going to suggest it, and they would have been immediately lynched as scum if they had. (And rightly so I think - we were operating on the assumption that every week that went by meant a scum kill...)

....so should we "fakevote" for who should do it?

VOTE: Kenetic/ABR (to do it together)

I hope you're joking - that sounds like asking hilter and winston churchill to collaberate on a book about WWII...

(No comment about which is which... )