Mini 754 - Frogs Mafia Game, Set and Match.

[Gorrad]

Headed to New York City from the 14th through the 18th. LA, if not no access.

[dahill1]

Scot, name two players you suspect and your reasoning please.

FoS gorrad

for constant active lurking.

Why did you decide to single me out for this? Why did you not ask any of the other people who are not voting? How bout crywolf whos vote was a random vote?

Answer my question first.

No, I'm good. You'll know when I'm ready to vote for someone.

so you'll just spring it on us when you're good and ready?
seems anti-town frankly to hide your suspicions

[curiouskarmadog]

24 hours with no posts? Odd.

funny you mention no posts...but you dont reply to my email...why is that?

Email?

email..post...meh.

[MacavityLock]

No, I'm good. You'll know when I'm ready to vote for someone.

so you'll just spring it on us when you're good and ready?
seems anti-town frankly to hide your suspicions

Any particular reason you didn't call me out for the same thing? I did pretty much the exact same thing in

Don't just wait for a player who is inactive to answer questions. Be proactive, comment on shit. Get reactions. No one is going to play this game for you, and I'm not going to give you a free pass for not playing it either.

Oh don't worry, I will. I just don't want to tip my suspicions just yet.

[dahill1]

No, I'm good. You'll know when I'm ready to vote for someone.

so you'll just spring it on us when you're good and ready?
seems anti-town frankly to hide your suspicions

Any particular reason you didn't call me out for the same thing? I did pretty much the exact same thing in

Don't just wait for a player who is inactive to answer questions. Be proactive, comment on shit. Get reactions. No one is going to play this game for you, and I'm not going to give you a free pass for not playing it either.

Oh don't worry, I will. I just don't want to tip my suspicions just yet.

yep didn't see it
but thanks for pointing it out

[scotmany12]

Scot, name two players you suspect and your reasoning please.

FoS gorrad

for constant active lurking.

Why did you decide to single me out for this? Why did you not ask any of the other people who are not voting? How bout crywolf whos vote was a random vote?

Answer my question first.

No, I'm good. You'll know when I'm ready to vote for someone.

so you'll just spring it on us when you're good and ready?
seems anti-town frankly to hide your suspicions

Your point? I'm not ready to vote for someone yet, and I'm not going to vote for someone for a bullshit reason just so my vote is on someone.

[Haterade]

Sorry I've been away; midterms this week and being really busy and little Haterade being time-consuming and etc.

Although in a reread I have nothing new to add.

[Citizen Karne]

24 hours with no posts? Odd.

funny you mention no posts...but you dont reply to my email...why is that?

Email?

I'm as confused as you are Gorrad…

Also, if I've missed some questions, ckd, please point them out so I can answer them.

And I would prefer first of all that you wouldn't self-meta in the first place and second of all that if you do it would be for a certain thing like "I always roll dice to random vote" or "I rarely vote except to hammer;" to prove something factual. An opinion about yourself really doesn't help us much. The fact that you are aware of it means you could be using it as scum to trick us. I would actually be more likely to believe you are scum trying to trick someone with a self-meta like that than town trying to prove your innocence. The fact that it is this early hurts you even more. I would think someone would resort to something as flimsy as that later on possibly as a last result, but when it is your first defense it looks like you've been waiting to use it, you know what I mean?

[dahill1]

Scot, name two players you suspect and your reasoning please.

FoS gorrad

for constant active lurking.

Why did you decide to single me out for this? Why did you not ask any of the other people who are not voting? How bout crywolf whos vote was a random vote?

Answer my question first.

No, I'm good. You'll know when I'm ready to vote for someone.

so you'll just spring it on us when you're good and ready?
seems anti-town frankly to hide your suspicions

Your point? I'm not ready to vote for someone yet, and I'm not going to vote for someone for a bullshit reason just so my vote is on someone.

not wanting to vote for anyone is different from not sharing your suspicions

[Citizen Karne]

Ah, I didn't see the last page.

I still don't see the post you are talking about ckd. I'm sorry, would you please direct me to it?

[scotmany12]

Scot, name two players you suspect and your reasoning please.

FoS gorrad

for constant active lurking.

Why did you decide to single me out for this? Why did you not ask any of the other people who are not voting? How bout crywolf whos vote was a random vote?

Answer my question first.

No, I'm good. You'll know when I'm ready to vote for someone.

so you'll just spring it on us when you're good and ready?
seems anti-town frankly to hide your suspicions

Your point? I'm not ready to vote for someone yet, and I'm not going to vote for someone for a bullshit reason just so my vote is on someone.

not wanting to vote for anyone is different from not sharing your suspicions

Well, see, I'm having a difficult time getting a decent read on anyone right now. I'm thinking I need to reread. Still though, it's strange that RR decided to only single me out.

[curiouskarmadog]

CK

from the bottom of page 6, bolded questions

I am not a big scot fan. Nothing personal, just don’t like his game play. I cant remember his alignment in those past games I have played with him (I think I have seen him as town and scum)..I think this is the first game I have seen him on the attack with reasoning I agree with. he makes really good points in post 105. 1st, there is no fucking thing as overly defense…and I would like to go a step further,

CK, if you think Hate is “classicly” “over defensive”…my question is to you…So?

2nd, being “70%” sure of someone being scum in this game after 4-5 pages seems silly. I do think Hate is new…I do think Hate appears to be eager.

Sounds like a classical case of an overly defensive beginner.

No such thing as overdefensive. Defending yourself is not a scum tell.

Yes there is. However, it is not a scumtell.

OK, so why bring it up?

(which scot asks right after)

I don’t like CK’s math in post 130. Initially, I didn’t have an issue with “70%”. I took it as he thought hate was scum or had a vibe that he might be scum. I thought it was sort of silly, but not scummy…NOW, that Scot calls him out on this, he is back tracking a tad stating

At the beginning of a game, I am 50% sure a person is scum. The extra 20% is not as big of a gain as I think you are making it.

and again, why mention it? How were we suppose to know you start at 50%?

Your posts so far seem fluffy. I need a point of reference to know what 70% means from you.

Right now, you have left yourself room to maneuver around if you have to. What is my % and why? TSQ’s? Scot’s? Cry’s…and why? How does lurking affect your %s?

[dahill1]

Well, see, I'm having a difficult time getting a decent read on anyone right now. I'm thinking I need to reread. Still though, it's strange that RR decided to only single me out.

ok. that's much different than how i interpreted your original post, which made it seem like you had suspicions but didn't wish to share them

also, prod: TSQ

[Citizen Karne]

CK

from the bottom of page 6, bolded questions

I am not a big scot fan. Nothing personal, just don’t like his game play. I cant remember his alignment in those past games I have played with him (I think I have seen him as town and scum)..I think this is the first game I have seen him on the attack with reasoning I agree with. he makes really good points in post 105. 1st, there is no fucking thing as overly defense…and I would like to go a step further,

CK, if you think Hate is “classicly” “over defensive”…my question is to you…So?

2nd, being “70%” sure of someone being scum in this game after 4-5 pages seems silly. I do think Hate is new…I do think Hate appears to be eager.

Sounds like a classical case of an overly defensive beginner.

No such thing as overdefensive. Defending yourself is not a scum tell.

Yes there is. However, it is not a scumtell.

OK, so why bring it up?

(which scot asks right after)

I don’t like CK’s math in post 130. Initially, I didn’t have an issue with “70%”. I took it as he thought hate was scum or had a vibe that he might be scum. I thought it was sort of silly, but not scummy…NOW, that Scot calls him out on this, he is back tracking a tad stating

At the beginning of a game, I am 50% sure a person is scum. The extra 20% is not as big of a gain as I think you are making it.

and again, why mention it? How were we suppose to know you start at 50%?

Your posts so far seem fluffy. I need a point of reference to know what 70% means from you.

Right now, you have left yourself room to maneuver around if you have to. What is my % and why? TSQ’s? Scot’s? Cry’s…and why? How does lurking affect your %s?

Ah I did indeed miss this. However, scot has asked me basically all of these. Did you miss my responses to his?

[Citizen Karne]

For reference:

Sounds like a classical case of an overly defensive beginner.

No such thing as overdefensive. Defending yourself is not a scum tell.

Yes there is. However, it is not a scumtell.

I am not 100% sold that he is scum yet (more like 70%), as beginner players seem to all act alike when they are cornered unfortunately. More analysis pending.

Seriously? You are 70% sure that Haterade is scum this early in the game?

Look at the way he has stuck with his case. Noobtown would have retreated by now in my opinion.

Also, I didn't look past what you said about the fact that what Haterade is doing is done by both scum and town. I specifically addressed that point when I said:

The ad hominem on kmd and the way he is sticking with his attack even though it was pointed out to him fairly clearly by TSQ reads more for me as noobscum than noobtown. You have a different read and a valid opinion, which I understand. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

What part of that did you not understand?

I understood it perfectly. You don't seem to understand that what Haterade has done is not scummy.

In your opinion

. I could easily be saying the exact same thing about you that you are saying about me yet I have accepted people have different opinions about what they think is scummy or not. If there was a definite set of rules about what makes someone scummy and what doesn't, then this game would be a lot shorter. But there isn't. Now, I know that common sense can help separate the scum from the town in certain situations, but I don't think this is one of them.

Also, do you assume everyone is completely pro-town at the beginning of a game? I've always started with completely neutral reads on everyone.

Statistically speaking, people are more likely to be town than scum. I view people as protown at the beginning unless their play looks otherwise. So you saying you already think someone is 50% scum at the beginning of the game is not neutral. You are saying that you are 50% sure someone is scum based off of absolutely nothing.

I assume everyone is either scum or town. I don't think anyone is innocent until proven guilty, or guilty until proven innocent. I just let their posts speak for themselves. The 50% thing has nothing to do with the ratio of town to scum in a game. How could I know that unless I was the mod? Maybe if I phrase it like this: On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is confirmed town and 10 is confirmed scum, I start off everyone at a 5 (neutral). Some people, based on their posts, will go up on this ranking; others will go down. Does that make more sense? I can see how you may have gotten confused with the percentages.

If there is anything you are still unclear on, please tell me.

[crywolf20084]

Just wanted to let you guys know, even though this is spring break for me, i work all week and i dunno how much i'm gonna get to the game. I'm gonna work on it tonight and tomorrow*.


_{*That all depends if i have to work tomorrow too..}

[mikeburnfire]

I feel like this is going nowhere.

TSQ, who should we lynch right now?

[MacavityLock]

My apologies, but I'll likely be LA for under a week for midterms. Should be around, but won't be able to add a ton.

[curiouskarmadog]

CK,

I would like %s on those I asked about, ie I wanted stances today versus later.

how does lurking affect these numbers?

[Citizen Karne]

I'll just do everyone, ckd.

dahill1-40%
I agree with most of what he's said, and what I don't agree with has been stated reasonably. His argument with MacavityLock really strikes me as town.

kloud1516-40%
I personally have no qualms with what he has said regarding "textbook scumtells" and think his analysis so far is pro-town.

Thestatusquo-40%
I like how he handled the situation with Haterade and the SK meta.

curiouskarmadog-45%
Your play is consistent with what I have seen in the past. Knowing you, your stance on my "over-defense" comment gives you a slight town edge.

Raging Rabbit-45%
Nothing substantial, but I feel I'm getting more of a town read from him. I agree with most of what he's said.

mikeburnfire-55%
His posts are too vapid for my liking. I would like more commentary from him.

MacavityLock-55%
I think his argument against dahill1 is weak. For what he calls out dahill1, others have been worse offenders.

scotmany12-60%
The fact he stopped responding to my posts rubs me the wrong way. I also think he was unreasonably hostile to RR and kloud.

crywolf20084-65%
I'm alright with using dice if you always use them, but apparently she doesn't. She also explicitly stated she wanted to "avoid angering" anyone. I didn't join in the discussion earlier because I was under the impression she always used them, but when it was pointed out that she doesn't, the whole thing was shown under a new light for me. She's also actively lurking to a degree.

Haterade-70%
I've stated this enough, I think.

Gorrad-75%
Active lurking, hypocritical comment to Haterade (which, surprisingly, Haterade didn't respond to), and the whole avoiding-confrontation-with-TSQ thing at the beginning has given me scummy vibes from the start.

As for lurking: it skews it towards neutral. For example, I almost always have around a 50% on killa seven. I think of lurking as a null-tell usually unless a player only starts it when under pressure. Active lurking adds to your percentage.

I hope this helps, ckd, and, even though you do not subscribe to this particular way of thinking, I hope you can at least understand me better now.

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote

for now....biggest beef was that he left himself room to manuver later...even though his numbers are close to each other, we are still early day 1...I will downgrage to a

FoS

. Bonus points for taking stances on everyone, though i did not ask for it.

Vote Cry

, for lurking here, but posting all over site. Also early game moves.

Cry, why are you avoiding this game?

[kloud1516]

Scot, name two players you suspect and your reasoning please.

FoS gorrad

for constant active lurking.

Why did you decide to single me out for this? Why did you not ask any of the other people who are not voting? How bout crywolf whos vote was a random vote?

How is this any different from what TSQ did earlier? I don't recall you jumping all over him for asking individual questions to people.

Scot, name two players you suspect and your reasoning please.

FoS gorrad

for constant active lurking.

Why did you decide to single me out for this? Why did you not ask any of the other people who are not voting? How bout crywolf whos vote was a random vote?

Answer my question first.

No, I'm good. You'll know when I'm ready to vote for someone.

This isn't helpful at all. Why would you not want to voice your suspicions, as doing so will only help maintain group discussion and productivity. This response doesn't sit well with me, as it makes me feel as though you have been trying to appear as though you are scum hunting, but really have made no effort to truly do so.

so you'll just spring it on us when you're good and ready?
seems anti-town frankly to hide your suspicions

Your point? I'm not ready to vote for someone yet, and I'm not going to vote for someone for a bullshit reason just so my vote is on someone.

Expression your opinions of the game thus far does not mean you have to vote someone. I myself would just like to hear your thoughts/impressions/concerns on what has transpired over the duration of the game so far.

Well, see, I'm having a difficult time getting a decent read on anyone right now. I'm thinking I need to reread. Still though, it's strange that RR decided to only single me out.

Fair enough.

[kloud1516]

*tumbleweed*

I feel like this is going nowhere.

TSQ, who should we lynch right now?

Do you honestly feel as though there are no recent discussions/developments you can give your opinion on? Posting in the thread how nothing is happening does not help fix the problem. At all.

vote: kloud

I get a bad vibe from his posts.

Nothing about in particular, but it's a good place to put my vote until I find one.

Is this post saying that you haven't found anything that particularly stands out, but gut feelings will suffice until something comes up? If not, are you saying that you are in the process of looking for posts that gave you the bad vibe? In the time you had to post your two latest submissions, have you found anything?

[Haterade]

dahill1 strikes me as town.

I have bad feelings about scotmany. I'm going to reread his posts and come up with something.

[scotmany12]

scotmany12-60%
The fact he stopped responding to my posts rubs me the wrong way. I also think he was unreasonably hostile to RR and kloud.

I wasn't going to change your opinion on haterade, and I didn't really have anything else to comment on. We could have gone on with both of us saying that we are right and the other is wrong, and it would get nowhere. You explained your percentages, so I had no reason to respond to that. I don't see how me responding to things that were directed at me counts as me being hostile.

Scot, name two players you suspect and your reasoning please.

FoS gorrad

for constant active lurking.

Why did you decide to single me out for this? Why did you not ask any of the other people who are not voting? How bout crywolf whos vote was a random vote?

How is this any different from what TSQ did earlier? I don't recall you jumping all over him for asking individual questions to people.

I don't think it is the same at all. Unless I'm missing something, he asked crywolf and RR a series of questions each. Crywolf's really could not be directed at anyone else; no one else had random voted using dice. The only thing that he asked Raging Rabbit that was a general questions was what he though about Gorrad. RR asked me to name two people who were suspicious, which I would have no problem with, had he done it to the others who have not mentioned their suspicions at the same point. Crywolf and Gorrad come to mind who haven't really voiced their suspicions.

]

Scot, name two players you suspect and your reasoning please.

FoS gorrad

for constant active lurking.

Why did you decide to single me out for this? Why did you not ask any of the other people who are not voting? How bout crywolf whos vote was a random vote?

Answer my question first.

No, I'm good. You'll know when I'm ready to vote for someone.

This isn't helpful at all. Why would you not want to voice your suspicions, as doing so will only help maintain group discussion and productivity. This response doesn't sit well with me, as it makes me feel as though you have been trying to appear as though you are scum hunting, but really have made no effort to truly do so.

so you'll just spring it on us when you're good and ready?
seems anti-town frankly to hide your suspicions

Your point? I'm not ready to vote for someone yet, and I'm not going to vote for someone for a bullshit reason just so my vote is on someone.

Expression your opinions of the game thus far does not mean you have to vote someone. I myself would just like to hear your thoughts/impressions/concerns on what has transpired over the duration of the game so far.

Well you know where I stand on the whole argument that was brought up against Haterade, and Its not like I have been voiceless. It's not like I have been inactive or actively lurking.

I'm going to reread tomorrow (today technically) and find some scum.