Open 118 - Follow The Cop ... Or Not (Game Over) before 748

[Slicey]

Slicey also voted against me, with the only reason of me being scared of L-3 and for analysing the votes of the rvs. Odd, as analysing votes is usually townie, but well... Oh, he also didn't noticed Emp's action of first shooting then asking. And I'm the one who looks scummy...

You were analyzing the votes themselves, not the content around it. You're not looking at the reason for the votes (and the reason is that they're random) but just who the vote is towards. You were basically saying "Well, these three people here are voting for KMD. One of them must be scum." Analyzing votes is town, but you have to look at the reason for the votes, not just the votes themselves, which is what you're doing.

Also, caution can be seen as a scumtell. Generally, I don't see it but you are

overly

cautious.

Also, the fact that it took you long to respond also is another scumtell. Not a great one, but one all the same.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

How could I respond, if I didn't see the posts due to the pyramid of quotes? I also, believe it or not, have a life outside this. I can log in periodically, leave a short comment and such, but I need time to answer, and I don't always have time.

[GIEFF]

How could I respond, if I didn't see the posts due to the pyramid of quotes? I also, believe it or not, have a life outside this. I can log in periodically, leave a short comment and such, but I need time to answer, and I don't always have time.

So which is it? Did you not see the post, or did you see it but decide not to respond because you didn't have time?

If it's the former, which I'm assuming, why did you even bring up the latter?

Also, I forget about one thing. L-3 is not a treat per se to the player, but it makes voting for that person a bit more complicated. If a person is already at L-3,

unless you have serious reasons

to vote for him, your vote (which would put that person at L-2) will be likely considered to be a bandwagon (especially if later on that players turns out to be townie). What I'm trying to say is that with Kmd at L-3, voting for him becomes difficult (not that I'm saying that we should all vote for him, just saying that in case of a vote against him), due to the likely assumption of such vote being a bandwagon.

Yes, a vote without serious reasons that puts someone at L-2 SHOULD be considered a bandwagon. This post makes no sense to me. Why is it a bad thing that votes on fuller wagons get more scrutiny?

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I did not see Emp's post. I saw Slicey's post, but I wasn't able to answer it up till now.

[Slicey]

I love how Shin has avoided a majority of our accusations/questions so far.

[Tuberkulos]

To me it seems like your reaction on Empking's question was quite sufficient for this rvs to end. Also, it's not the quantity that matters but the quality.
Also, are there any specific posts from Kmd that made you read him as a townie?

Shin, you still haven't answered this.

vote:Shin

[Kmd4390]

Shin, you've posted twice can you please defend yourself.

Defend me against what? You have done nothing else but to create a useless quote pyramid.

Did you actually read the posts?

Here is a vote history. It's automatically generated, so please let me know if there are any errors.

....

What information exactly do you take from the vote history?

You don't lay votes just to lay them out of the rvs and then look for a excuse for that vote. That's zetta weird. But, what's also weirder is that Kmd didn't noticed such thing. He just agreed with that, which suggest me partnership between them.

You've never seen a player lay a vote and then build a case? I know I've done it. The thought process behind that is usually, "My gut says X is scummy. I should see why." That's how most cases end up being formed.

[Empking]

Nameless: I don't mind, I'd just like the rules in the first post.

Shin: So instead of answering my points you just attack me. My gut was definately right. Also don't use the letter E in your post as it distracts me because it causes me to think "Shine"

[GIEFF]

What information exactly do you take from the vote history?

Not a whole lot now, but later on it's good to see who hasn't voted much, who has switched votes a lot, who has focused only on one or two players, and tracking how wagons build and fade.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Shin, you've posted twice can you please defend yourself.

Defend me against what? You have done nothing else but to create a useless quote pyramid.

Did you actually read the posts?

Did you actually read my response to that? Here, have a good look at it again:

I did not see Emp's post. I saw Slicey's post, but I wasn't able to answer it up till now.

Talk about hypocrite. You're saying that I didn't read the post, when you just ignore my answer to that, when GIEFF asked me the same thing.

Shin: So instead of answering my points you just attack me. My gut was definately right. Also don't use the letter E in your post as it distracts me because it causes me to think "Shine"

You're not exactly asking me anything, so how can I respond? You just stated a biased points regarding my posts. That's all I can answer to that.

To me it seems like your reaction on Empking's question was quite sufficient for this rvs to end. Also, it's not the quantity that matters but the quality.
Also, are there any specific posts from Kmd that made you read him as a townie?

Shin, you still haven't answered this.

vote:Shin

I thought I had answered that. It's not a specific post, it's just that's the feeling I get from him. The "gut" some talk about.

[Nameless]

It Is Pitch Black. You Are Likely To Have Your Vote Counted.
>

Shinnen_no_Me: 4 (ZazieR, Empking, Slicey, Tuberkulos)
Empking: 2 (Shadow Knight, GIEFF)
BlakAdder: 1 (Kmd4390)

Not Voting: 4 (BlakAdder, ac1983fan, Shinnen_no_Me, ZEEnon)

[ac1983fan]

/lolz at reference

[GIEFF]

Tuberkulos, why did you unvote magus?

And why are you voting magus/shin again now?

[Slicey]

It's not biased if 4 people think the same thing. >_>

[Tuberkulos]

Tuberkulos, why did you unvote magus?

And why are you voting magus/shin again now?

I voted him to put some pressure on him for some answers (both of the times). Some people tend to talk more if they have votes on 'em. Shin seems to be one of these people. Not scummy per se, but it doesn't look too good. I unvoted the first time because I got answers. This time however, I'll leave the vote on him until he have given a respons to my upcoming post. He is scummy.

[GIEFF]

But you unvoted him in the same post you asked the question for which you are now voting him for not having answered.

Here is your unvote post, in which you also ask why Shin thinks kmd is town.

Here is Shin's answer.

Here is your reasoning for putting Shin at L-2.


Are there other reasons you have for voting Shin?

[GIEFF]

My mistake; your unvote post had a different question. You first asked why Shin thought kmd was town, and only later did you ask for specific posts, and it is the latter question that Shin didn't answer.

I would still like to know your other reasons, though.

[ZEEnon]

Vote: Sshin

- Just gut.

Folks, this is what mafia look like when they bandwagon.

---

I know it may be fun, but please don't make any post pyramids. They are one of the reasons I had little motivation to read though this thread for a couple days.

---

Also, can some people please explain to me the case on Shinnen_no_Me? The reasons I am seeing aren't extremely strong. They are valid though.

Hmm...I like Emp's case. I've found Shin pretty scummy throughout the game so far. Mainly the fact that she's "scared" of L-3

Having an awareness of L-3 is in everyone's best interests besides scum. Unless of course, it's the scum that is being lynched. I do, however, agree with the fact that Shinnen_no_Me doesn't

not

answer accusations directed at her.

Still, there is at least some connection between ZEEnon and afatchic.

Are you saying that you and I are scum? Because that is the only connection I can see you would even be making.
I'm not scum, so what connection are you referring to?

[GIEFF]

Are you saying that you and I are scum? Because that is the only connection I can see you would even be making.
I'm not scum, so what connection are you referring to?

I was saying there was at least some connection between you and whoever you unvoted, and then I went back to see who it was and filled in the name, completely forgetting that it was who I replaced. I thought I was replacing IH, because that's who I originally offered to replace. Zazier offered first, so was the one to replace IH, but Nameless asked me to replace afatchic soon after.


I didn't know what the connection was, and wanted to just reference it to look back on later, when one of the two alignments became known.

[Empking]

ZEE: A second vote isn't a bandwagon.

[Slicey]

Mod: Can we get a prod on Zazier?

Zeenon, Emp later made a case on Shin. Did you not see that?

[Nameless]

BlakAdder, Shadow Knight and ZazieR have been prodded.

[Tuberkulos]

But you unvoted him in the same post you asked the question for which you are now voting him for not having answered.

Here is your unvote post, in which you also ask why Shin thinks kmd is town.

Here is Shin's answer.

Here is your reasoning for putting Shin at L-2.


Are there other reasons you have for voting Shin?

My mistake; your unvote post had a different question. You first asked why Shin thought kmd was town, and only later did you ask for specific posts, and it is the latter question that Shin didn't answer.

I would still like to know your other reasons, though.

Here's my reasons for voting Shin:

We're in a random voting stage, so I'm guessing that all votes and FoS'es are joke.

Geez, calm down Mr. Serious. For me, the RVS ends when somebody start with a good argument. So far I've seen none of that. Just random/pressure votes.

Well, first, I agree with you regarding that townies want the RVS to end as soon as possible to have more time for serious discussion. However, the RVS is important, as it lets us start with the game properly, and rushing it when we have not yet something to start with is not good, imo.

Let's look at these posts. He says (guesses) that all votes and FoS'es are random in the RVS and that Emp shouldn't take the votes/FoS'es seriously and that the RVS ends when someone makes a good argument. If everything is random and shouldn't be taken seriously, then how are we going to suddenly come up with a good argument for something? Maybe if someone is oppertunistic maybe, that's a possebility. But I don't understand why he have anything against Empking's reaction. He says that RVS will give us something good start with. How is that possible if everything should be counted as random?

I also don't like his reaction to Kmd being at L-3. Since when is that something to get all jumpy about? To me it looks like he is trying be look townie. Especially since he is trying to label one of them as scum.

Your three votes might seem random, but there's also a probability that mafia (not all of them, though), it's behind of one of those votes.

Craplogic. These people could just aswell be townie.

Seriously? Are we really going to have and discuss random votes and bandwagons based entirely on random votes in *2* games I'm in?

So, Shadow Knight, what do you suggest then? You think that we should then just keep random voting until somebody screams "I'm mafia!"?

Wait a sec. When Empking tried to discuss about a FoS (that was random according to Shin) Shin bashed on him for it. Contradicts to what he have expressed in post 30 and 32

I believe the most likely is the second option (an early bandwagon pushed by mafia). However, I do not think the point of the bandwagon is a quick lynch, but to draw attention to some place by pressuring one player.

Again, trying to say that one of them might be scum, and that is more likely than 3 townies. Why is that? It's such a brainfart really.

The rvs, for me, need to be at least somewhat long (around 3 pages or so), because chances are that the reactions of people towards the random votes wouldn't give us enough info to start a proper discussion (that's what I, at least, believe).

Shin told SK that we should discuss random votes in post 49. That kind of signifies that the reactions of people towards the random votes is quite sufficient, which contradicts what he have said earlier.

[Shadow Knight]

Got the prod. I've been reading along (except on weekends). Hard to see any holes in Tuber's logic. Will have to go back and see if a change of vote is in order.

[Kmd4390]

Tuber, I see your points against Shin, but you misquoted me in that last post. GIEFF wrote that, not me.