Mini 736 - The Masonry Game Over!

[Jahudo]

Caboose, isn't it still a rushed lynch? Even if you think he's lynch worthy now, shouldn't we get a better reading on the less active players who aren't involved in a zwets lynch? I still don't see how you could want a hammer so soon.

[Darox]

Votecount #14

zwetschenwasser (3) - Juls, Sebguer, alcove
alcove (1) - RestFermata
Max (0)
Caboose (0)
RestFermata (0)
Sebguer (0)
Juls (0)
skitzer (0)

Not Voting (4) - Max, Jahudo, zwetschenwasser, Caboose

8 alive, 5 to lynch, 4 to no-lynch

[zwetschenwasser]

Why is Rest voting alcove again?

[Jahudo]

Zwet who do you think is scum and why?

Who do you think is scum and why?

[zwetschenwasser]

PRUFT

[RestFermata]

If you want to know why I'm voting alcove, you'll have to go back a page. I know, I know, it's difficult. But it's worth it sometimes.

[zwetschenwasser]

Unvote

I might put my vote on again, but this particular quicklynch is reminding me of the other 2 days, which were both town lynches. Everyone is so involved in it, it feels scum-driven to me. It's either a heavy, heavy bus or zwets is town who has made several poor choices. I still think that zwets is scummy, but I am beginning to have my misgivings about the way everyone is pushing this lynch. Some of these people are bound to be scum, and nothing reads like a bus to me. I don't want to lose this game because we were too hot-headed and lynched everything that moved.

And besides, there are other scum besides zwets if zwets is scum, and I really think there should be more examination of this wagon before Caboose hammers. I'm probably going to go under fire from Juls and Caboose for this, and possibly everyone else, but I'm not going to let people "peer pressure" me into a possible mislynch. A quicklynch is not what we need here. We've had plenty of those.

Vote: alcove

Something about you doesn't seem right. I don't know if it's the way you ride the fence on everything, or the way you took off your vote before going to bed when someone suggested not quicklynching, then woke up and put it back on again after a few posts in between. I can't quite place it, but something about you is off. And

FoS

on Sebguer for reasons that may become apparent later.

I think we should squeeze more out of this day. I want more than a zwets-bashing party, even though it's fun. There is no reason for a quicklynch. Maybe Juls thinks a quicklynch wouldn't hurt, but I definitely think making the day last a little longer won't hurt either.

I don't like this argument.

[RestFermata]

I'm sorry that I failed to earn the coveted zwetschenwasser stamp of approval. Would you care to tell me why?

Anyway, I'm sort of seeing this as zwet trying to look more town by arguing with my reasoning even though I unvoted him. Guess it's WIFOM though.

[Sebguer]

Unvote

I might put my vote on again, but this particular quicklynch is reminding me of the other 2 days, which were both town lynches. Everyone is so involved in it, it feels scum-driven to me. It's either a heavy, heavy bus or zwets is town who has made several poor choices. I still think that zwets is scummy, but I am beginning to have my misgivings about the way everyone is pushing this lynch. Some of these people are bound to be scum, and nothing reads like a bus to me. I don't want to lose this game because we were too hot-headed and lynched everything that moved.

And besides, there are other scum besides zwets if zwets is scum, and I really think there should be more examination of this wagon before Caboose hammers. I'm probably going to go under fire from Juls and Caboose for this, and possibly everyone else, but I'm not going to let people "peer pressure" me into a possible mislynch. A quicklynch is not what we need here. We've had plenty of those.

Vote: alcove

Something about you doesn't seem right. I don't know if it's the way you ride the fence on everything, or the way you took off your vote before going to bed when someone suggested not quicklynching, then woke up and put it back on again after a few posts in between. I can't quite place it, but something about you is off. And

FoS

on Sebguer for reasons that may become apparent later.

I think we should squeeze more out of this day. I want more than a zwets-bashing party, even though it's fun. There is no reason for a quicklynch. Maybe Juls thinks a quicklynch wouldn't hurt, but I definitely think making the day last a little longer won't hurt either.

I don't like this argument.

To your brilliant little piece of argumentation there, I offer this rebuttal...

Why?

Also: Rest, your avatar made me giggle.

[Jahudo]

I don't think your argument against alcove is very clear but she should be the one reacting to it.

Something about you doesn't seem right. I don't know if it's the way you ride the fence on everything, or the way you took off your vote before going to bed when someone suggested not quicklynching, then woke up and put it back on again after a few posts in between.

Do you have examples of her riding the fence? How her unvote and revote a scumtell in this situation?

RF: You never reacted directly to alcove's reason for unvoting. What do you think of it?:

I took it off because I was going away and was worried something major might change to make me reconsider my vote.

[Jahudo]

EBWOP: How

is

her unvote and revote a scumtell...

[alcove]

Vote: alcove

Something about you doesn't seem right. I don't know if it's the way you ride the fence on everything, or the way you took off your vote before going to bed when someone suggested not quicklynching, then woke up and put it back on again after a few posts in between. I can't quite place it, but something about you is off. And

FoS

on Sebguer for reasons that may become apparent later.

When did I ride the fence?

I unvoted because when Jahudo brought up mylo I took a look at the amount of living players alive and got spooked (Someone has since then argued that there was probably no need to worry, personally I don't know what to expect from this size game). The flow of this game so far has tended towards lynches coming really fast out of nowhere, so I felt justified in my concerns over leaving my vote on overnight, when I didn't know what might happen.

But then the game slowed down, a lot. And nothing changed- zwets still seemed

very

scummy- and I wanted my vote back where I thought it was deserved.

---

In general your post voting me and fossing sebguer is a bit strange. You're voting me because... what? Something you "can't place"? And then you fos sebguer but avoid explaining why... how is that useful?

[Max]

I've been ill for the weekend and today so consider this is really just a filler post, I'll catch up tomorrow

[Juls]

I am still waiting for someone to take me up on my offer in post 424.

If someone can give me a logical reason why zwets would hammer Reecer (his mason recruiter) then I will remove my vote (Zwets need not apply). Until then, it is going to stay on zwets.

It is one thing to extend the day for conversation and it is another to extend the day just to follow the mafiascum rulebook for looking townie. I hope those who are following the latter mentality think about if this is really productive or not?

[zwetschenwasser]

The alcove case is complete BS.

[Jahudo]

I am still waiting for someone to take me up on my offer in post 424.

Juls I don't think you've directly addressed any of Zwets defense posts today. Even if you still want to lynch him, what is your reaction to posts 372, 376, 379, and 391?

But in response to 424, I can't find a logical reason for his vote. I still say he went from finding Reecer's aloofness a town tell to a scum tell pretty quickly and without anything different happening from Reecer.

he infuriated me by actively trying to get lynched, which seemed like a ploy to get me into a WIFOM situation.

Where does he do this? I don't think any of his posts were deliberately scummy. The main reason he was put into a lynch position was his mistake of saying "I'm not pro-town nor pro-scum" which sounded legitimately bad but not an active attempt to get lynched IMO.

[Juls]

For Jahudo

I knew he was a mason recruiter, but not if he was town or not.

Give me a serious reason why you doubted his alignment? It was N1 when you were recruited. I assume that there was Reecer and 0 to 1 other people in the masonry with you. I don't think the mod would give mafia the position of recruiter. Maybe an initial mason, but not the recruiter. Explain the logic that led you to believe that Reecer was scum. Did he say something in private chat?

Reecer was being wishy washy and dodgy. He seemed like scum to me, and I could definitely believe that Darox would put a scum mason recruiter in a game like this. It's not like the recruiter would turn his recruits into scum.

He revealed his role with a misunderstanding of his win condition...then he said he was town. Did you think that he was going to be that blatantly scummy or that he was a cultist? If he was a cultist, your win condition would be the cultist. It still doesn't explain why you would hammer your mason partner.

It seemed consistent with his playstyle throughout the game, but then he just went insane...

This is regarding a question of why he unvoted. This reason makes NOOOO sense at all. This is the unvote in question:

I don't think reecer cares if he's lynched, which is a protown thing to me.

Unvote

Guess what? Reecer made NO more posts between your unvote in 357 and your hammer in 359. Are we really having this discussion? Someone please vote for him and lynch him....it doesn't get anymore scummy. So you are saying that he went "insane" between post 357 and 359 whilst not posting at all? So fail.

Throughout the game he seemed nonchalant and didn't seem to care about the town at all. At first I took it as a town-tell, as in general townies don't care if they're lynched, but he infuriated me by actively trying to get lynched, which seemed like a ploy to get me into a WIFOM situation. Hence, I thought he was scum.

Not a ploy...Reecer is a bad player. He is a bad player in all his games. I pointed this out earlier in thread. Please just vote yourself. I see there is a game you want to join in the queue...think how much fun you will have! Die scum.

[Max]

Zwet never said Reecer was confirmed town, just that he had mason recruiting powers (see: post 281). This interpretation does not sit right with me. Why did you think zwet thought Reecer was town?

Practically every post that Zwet made said something bad about Reecer but he didn't vote, I read that as him thinking Reecer was town

[Jahudo]

I agree with Juls post 441 except for someone hammering Zwets yet. I want to figure out what RF is talking about.

Max:

Also I'm intrigued that zwet says that Reecer is town while he votes him.

Zwet never said Reecer was confirmed town, just that he had mason recruiting powers (see: post 281). This interpretation does not sit right with me. Why did you think zwet thought Reecer was town?

Practically every post that Zwet made said something bad about Reecer but he didn't vote, I read that as him thinking Reecer was town

Then why would Zwet say anything bad about Reecer?

[Jahudo]

EBYOP: How'd I mess up that quote pyramid?

[RestFermata]

Juls - We ARE making conversation. Even if it's "what the hell is RF talking about", it's conversation, and I think it's useful.
----
Chapter 1: My FoS on Sebguer

I will say this. It's cryptic, but it's all I can give you right now:

If Sebguer is scum, the correct move would be to tell you everything about why I suspect Sebguer, because scum knows the important stuff already. Unfortunately, I don't know for sure whether Sebguer is scum.

If Sebguer is town, the correct move would be to keep everything to myself, not even sharing my FoS.

Unfortunately I don't know for sure whether or not Sebguer is scum, so I did something inbetween those two. Eventually it may become clear why I suspect Sebguer--so that you will be able to then take that into account, I am FoSing him, but for now I'm going to leave it at that. I am sorry for being cryptic, but I don't want to reveal anything to scum. if ALL of you really, really, really, really want to know why I am slightly suspicious of Sebguer, I will tell you, but I don't think it's a good idea, just in case Sebguer is town.
---
Chapter 2:

My case on Alcove:

It was kind of BS. I'll give zwets that. Not in that I fabricated it, but in that I fabricated the REASONS for it. It mostly is "something I can't quite place." I don't want alcove lynched, because my reasons for voting her are pretty stupid, and I can admit that. I am actually more suspicious of Sebguer, but I don't want to talk about that too much. I just wanted someone to put my vote on besides zwets because I was afraid Caboose was going to drop the hammer. I don't want an Empking-style quicklynch or another unproductive "lynch a stupid pro-town player and then regret it" day. I knew unvoting wouldn't be enough to extend the day. That would just delay the inevitable without really exploring other issues. I knew I would have to put my vote somewhere else. There is something about alcove that I feel uneasy about. I know there is an underlying tangible reason for my gut feeling, and I examined some different ideas. I am aware that none of them quite fit.

I do not want alcove lynched right now because of my gut feeling. I feel that zwets has done little to dissuade my suspicions of him. I feel that I have succeeded in inspiring different paths of conversation. I am going to unvote alcove.

unvote

I am

sure

this post will make me look to some people like I was just throwing crap at the wall to see what stuck, but honestly, I think that I did a good thing. And if people continue to discuss my weird little tangent, then all the better. I think our days have been one-track and it has hurt us a lot--it has been very difficult to explore connections/voting patterns because everyone was tunneling on one player or another and there wasn't a lot of divergence of suspicion. So if you want to fry zwets today, at least keep in mind that we will never catch all the scum until we stray from the "everyone agrees about the lynch of the day" mindset.

[zwetschenwasser]

I REALLY don't like that Juls is pretending that I'm still at L-1. If someone else votes for me I will self-hammer, to prove that Juls is scum tomorrow and end this pointless discussion.

[Juls]

I REALLY don't like that zwets is still pretending like we should just believe he is town despite not providing answers to valid questions regarding his actions.

[RestFermata]

zwets--do you think our suspicion of you is unfounded? Do you think you have played a pro-town game so far?

[alcove]

My case on Alcove:

It was kind of BS. I'll give zwets that.

Not in that I fabricated it, but in that I fabricated the REASONS for it.

It mostly is "something I can't quite place." I don't want alcove lynched, because my reasons for voting her are pretty stupid, and I can admit that. I am actually more suspicious of Sebguer, but I don't want to talk about that too much. I just wanted someone to put my vote on besides zwets because I was afraid Caboose was going to drop the hammer. I don't want an Empking-style quicklynch or another unproductive "lynch a stupid pro-town player and then regret it" day. I knew unvoting wouldn't be enough to extend the day. That would just delay the inevitable without really exploring other issues. I knew I would have to put my vote somewhere else. There is something about alcove that I feel uneasy about. I know there is an underlying tangible reason for my gut feeling, and I examined some different ideas. I am aware that none of them quite fit.

Really

now.
How exactly is fabricating BS reasons pro-town?

---

I'm debating between whether you are actually trying to create discussion in new directions, or just trying to distract from the zwets wagon with a BS vote and vague FoS.
I'm willing to go with the first option for now only because in the previous days you've seemed reasonably townie, but IGMEOY, Rest.