Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[Nuwen]

I just don't like that each of Zwet's posts makes less and less sense, scum OR town perspective. My policy on jesters is the same as millers: inevitably lynch (or dayvig, if available).

A jester claim is an oxymoron, assuming every player is trying to win. Claiming jester will make an actual jester's win condition impossible to satisfy, making it a stupid claim for scum to hide behind. No real jester would ever claim, thus every jester claim is either false or made by someone not playing to win.

[zwetschenwasser]

Where did all this talk about jesters and me trying to suicide come from? This is by far my favorite game I'm still alive in, and I don't want to die fast.

[Zachrulez]

Zwet, what do you think of my analysis of you and Nuwen?

[zwetschenwasser]

I think it's quite valid, especially since Nuwen is ignoring part of your analysis. Do you have other questions?

[Nuwen]

I thought I addressed everything. Quote what you think I missed?

[Zachrulez]

I am VERY confused by this post, because I haven't seen any posts prior to post 357, back to the beginning of the day where Nuwen states any concern for Zwet's suspicion of Spring.

Nothing screams scum/irrational town play to me like an unjustified vote. I don't have to actively pursue a player to read one of his or her posts, recognize a fault, and point it out or ask for clarification. Are you suggesting that someone needs to be tunneling another player in order for his or her suspicions not to be suspicious themselves? I think you read this post in retrograde,

after

deciding that I'm bussing Zwet, and then tried to make it fit the scenario.

I'm not really satisfied with this answer.

I also haven't "decided" that you're bussing Zwet, but I see the possibility that this could be happening. (Using the word possible is far from having a position of certainty.)

[Zachrulez]

I thought I addressed everything. Quote what you think I missed?

If I were to guess. I think he's saying you ignored the backtracking part of my analysis where you backed off from saying that I was a top candidate for being Spring's scum buddy.

But I'm not going to stake my life savings on that.

If there's something else he thinks you missed, I would like him to point that out too... cause I think you did address everything else.

[zwetschenwasser]

You ignored part of his case on you, namely the part about your wishy-washiness with regard to Spring?

[Zachrulez]

You ignored part of his case on you, namely the part about your wishy-washiness with regard to Spring?

You mean this?

361, 362: Backtracks on me being Spring's most likely scum buddy.

[zwetschenwasser]

Yessish. You pointed out that he quickly left me to defend the case against Spring after BB jumped in, I think.

[Nuwen]

I am VERY confused by this post, because I haven't seen any posts prior to post 357, back to the beginning of the day where Nuwen states any concern for Zwet's suspicion of Spring.

Nothing screams scum/irrational town play to me like an unjustified vote. I don't have to actively pursue a player to read one of his or her posts, recognize a fault, and point it out or ask for clarification. Are you suggesting that someone needs to be tunneling another player in order for his or her suspicions not to be suspicious themselves? I think you read this post in retrograde,

after

deciding that I'm bussing Zwet, and then tried to make it fit the scenario.

I'm not really satisfied with this answer.

Zwet's day 2 posts prior to 357, the post troubling Zach:

Aha! Springlullaby is scum!

It's clear that Jere's flip as town puts a lot of incrimination on spring, and I completely agree with Nuwen.

In case you didn't notice, my first post was "spring is scum", before Nuwen.

These three sentences struck me as inadequate explanation for Zwet's certainty about Spring's alignment, especially because he was parroting my reasoning, which I later decided was faulty and based on misinformation. The "read minds" comment was a snarky way of asking Zwet to expand his case against Spring.

But I think it's the timing of this post, rather than the content, that you have a problem with?

361, 362: Backtracks on me being Spring's most likely scum buddy.

This? There isn't much to lean on.

My scum buddy theory pivoted around my case against Spring. Yes, I still find the exchange between Spring and Zach contrived, but I can't accuse Zach of being Spring's scum buddy if I'm no longer positive that Spring is scum.

That's

what you've been referencing for two posts? A piece of sequential logic that you could have worked out yourself?

[zwetschenwasser]

Eh??? I don't see how I "parroted" your reasoning. I had thought that yesterday.

[Nuwen]

I don't see how I "parroted" your reasoning.

and I completely agree with Nuwen.

Yesterday, your posts mentioning - MENTIONING, not even building a case against - Spring:

Springlullaby: What don't you like? I was joking about not knowing what's going on, and Ecto thought I meant it, so I set him straight.

Spring: Stop contradicting yourself, and what does Skillit have to do with anything?

Spring, you were almost nonexistent at the beginning of the game, and now you're trying to distance yourself from a Zero lynch.

The ones in question, from towniest to scummiest:

BB
Nuwen
Spring
Zach

Spring 2. WHAA??

You weren't answering Spring's questions by talking about manners and other randomness. I don't know what that has to do with anything, now that I'm one hundred percent sure that Zero is scum for fakeclaiming a Night 0 investigation.

That's quite the ironclad case, Zwet. You have a post asking for clarification on a Spring -> Zwet attack, half a post vaguely accusing Spring of contradicting herself with no example material, half a post listing Spring as the second scummiest player, a joke post, and a post directed at Zero referencing Spring's case against him.

I had thought that yesterday.

The only indication that you suspected Spring yesterday was in 225's list, but you didn't bother to explain why each player was rated more townish or scummy. If that's your strongest piece of material against Spring, why aren't you pursuing Zach more actively? You rated him more scummy than Spring - do you think he's more townish now, or are you choosing to ignore your previous ranking system in lieu of lynching Spring?

I fail to see how you arrived at "Springlullaby is scum!" from the above.

Vote: zwetschenwasser

- we'll have that bussing discussion again later, I suppose. I see and understand why Zach proposed the bus possibility, but I'm not going to let a suspicious appearance prevent me from stringing up scum.

[zwetschenwasser]

I fail to see that "thought" means "post seventeen pages of cross-referenced discussion over every single word in the thread that points to Spring being scum"

[Nuwen]

Laying it out for you, one more time.

371

I never showed much interest in Spring yesterday, and I don't think I implied yesterday that I was going after the spring case today.

411

Eh??? I don't see how I "parroted" your reasoning. I had thought that yesterday.

Great. You "thought" Spring was scum yesterday, but made no motion to share your suspicions or lay out a case. You lynched Zero instead.

You're justifying this silence by saying the NK incriminates Spring - presumably, if you had shared your suspicions yesterday, it would have spoiled your read on the NK. Yesterday, you somehow predicted that keeping your case against Spring a secret would provide you with a large, tangible piece of evidence overnight. Essentially, you predicted that the kill would point in her direction.

So, here we are today, and your biggest piece of information gained from the NK is that Jere's alignment points directly at Spring. This is what you're making your case around. What happened to yesterday's secret case, the one you chose to keep in your "thoughts?" Are you going to share it with us? Thus far, your entire case has been built in retrograde - after the kill flipped, you decided it incriminated Spring based on a conversation YESTERDAY that you didn't name as suspect.

The rest of your case is "I agree with Nuwen." Nuwen already deconstructed her case against Spring; it was bad, for reasons outlined earlier. This is parroting, and bad parroting at that. Scum usually take valid cases made by town players and reiterate them to jump on a wagon without having to fabricate fallable reasons.

Even if we assume you had material to build a case with yesterday, why haven't you shared it now? Your only attack on Spring has been for the night kill.

[zwetschenwasser]

I thought Zero much more scummy than Spring, and I never said Spring was scum yesterday, because I didn't know anything about JereIC's alignment.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I thought Zero much more scummy than Spring, and I never said Spring was scum yesterday, because I didn't know anything about JereIC's alignment.

Where do you conclude scum spring would night kill JereIC? Further, how do you conclude that their alignments are inverse? Granted, it isn't the worst theory, but neither looks super scummy or super town. (I know this from rereading.) So, I don't really see how their alignment gives too much information.

I also didn't see anything like this claim suggested in Nuwen's summary of your posts. I may reread your posts to check later (don't feel like it now), but this attack of yours seems a little forced and unsupported.

[Nuwen]

im here.

vote: beyond_birthday

not gonna lie, pretty pissed that despite a few smarter people going hes town you morons you guys still lynched z3r0ph34r.

lets get the scum this time, hmm?

I'd like to make sure this post doesn't get overlooked. You wanted a Zwet lynch yesterday, with a BB followup today. Why did Zwet lose your attention, and what made BB take the spotlight?

[springlullaby]

I'm looking at this day and founding it depressing.

Zwet, who do you think is scum beside me?


It is almost certain I'm voting zwet today. Still, no hurry.

[zwetschenwasser]

I'm looking at this day and founding it depressing.

Zwet, who do you think is scum beside me?


It is almost certain I'm voting zwet today. Still, no hurry.

I rest my case. Nuwen and Spring are scum.

[Zachrulez]

I'm looking at this day and founding it depressing.

Zwet, who do you think is scum beside me?


It is almost certain I'm voting zwet today. Still, no hurry.

I rest my case. Nuwen and Spring are scum.

Based on... the JereIC nightkill?

... I'm still having trouble understanding how certainty is derived from that.

[zwetschenwasser]

Someone is attacking you, and all you say is "Who else is scum?" You call that not-scummy?

[Zachrulez]

How do you call it scummy?

[zwetschenwasser]

He didn't make an attempt to defend himself.

[Zachrulez]

Which means what exactly?

I mean does it warrant a response or a defense? What would you say to an accusation that you are scum based solely on the fact that someone died?

Would you think it worth defending yourself to be seen as defensive?

Or would you think that such an attack doesn't even warrant a response?

By the way. Spring's gender icon is female, a lot of people have been using the wrong pronoun when speaking of her.