Mini 703 - A Roccisi Autumn - Over

[Kison]

If anything, what you just suggested is another argument for incompetence among the scum team... The ideal move would have been to save the gun inventor's gun and use the Mafia kill. Because, if they purposely no-killed but instead used the gun, they guaranteed they wasted a kill. On the other hand, if they killed with the Mafia's inherent night kill and withheld use of the gun, they still had a shot of using the gun later and double killing on a single night.

Obviously this assumes the mechanics work traditionally.

So, even if what you suggested is true, the best candidate, in my opinion, for making the blunder of using the gun over the Mafia kill would be afatchic.

[Ectomancer]

I dont know that it would have been incompetence. As I said, they may have been concerned about a tracker/watcher being out there and figured if caught out using the gun inventors weapon, no problem. Rather than incompetent, I would say it would be more of a conservative approach. Remember also that it is only my guess that such a weapon would have only a percentage chance of working, but I would be surprised if the mod told the recipient that fact. Now this next part may be incompetence; if they didn't realize that the inventors gun could have a chance of not working, then they probably should have.

I'd like everyone to say which scenario you think the more likely -
1: inventor gun being used in lieu of scum nk and failing
2: Doc/Roleblocker prevented a kill n2 and doesnt want to be forced to claim today
3: Scum was inattentive and didn't send in a kill

I would say that I believe 3 to be the least likely by a wide margin. I'm not certain I believe in 2, but if I did I would believe Korts to be the remaining scum. Option 1 I am not certain who I would hold up as scum. My suspicious mind looks at how Kison ridicules the choice of using the gun instead of a scum kill N2, and actually I feel some truth behind his opinion, but I wonder if the vehemence behind it is because Tubby was Godfather and decided to do it that way over Kison's objections.

[Ectomancer]

Oh yes, I'm spinning stories about anyone or any scenario if it comes into my head. It doesn't mean my compass has settled. I just need several competing ideas and then weed it down to the most likely.

[afatchic]

So, even if what you suggested is true, the best candidate, in my opinion, for making the blunder of using the gun over the Mafia kill would be afatchic.

Comments like this one are really starting to get on my nerves. im not a complete moron, which might be a surprise to some of you.

[Kison]

So, even if what you suggested is true, the best candidate, in my opinion, for making the blunder of using the gun over the Mafia kill would be afatchic.

Comments like this one are really starting to get on my nerves. im not a complete moron, which might be a surprise to some of you.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be offensive. I'm not saying that making such a mistake makes you an idiot. I merely think that someone with less time on the site would be more likely to overlook something like this.

[Adel]

I dont know that it would have been incompetence. As I said, they may have been concerned about a tracker/watcher being out there and figured if caught out using the gun inventors weapon, no problem. Rather than incompetent, I would say it would be more of a conservative approach. Remember also that it is only my guess that such a weapon would have only a percentage chance of working, but I would be surprised if the mod told the recipient that fact. Now this next part may be incompetence; if they didn't realize that the inventors gun could have a chance of not working, then they probably should have.

I'd like everyone to say which scenario you think the more likely -
1: inventor gun being used in lieu of scum nk and failing
2: Doc/Roleblocker prevented a kill n2 and doesnt want to be forced to claim today
3: Scum was inattentive and didn't send in a kill

I would say that I believe 3 to be the least likely by a wide margin. I'm not certain I believe in 2, but if I did I would believe Korts to be the remaining scum. Option 1 I am not certain who I would hold up as scum. My suspicious mind looks at how Kison ridicules the choice of using the gun instead of a scum kill N2, and actually I feel some truth behind his opinion, but I wonder if the vehemence behind it is because Tubby was Godfather and decided to do it that way over Kison's objections.

I hate hate hate role abilities with random elements. I hope that is not what happened here. I hadn't seriously considered the possibility,and now I have trouble doing so because I find random mechanics so distasteful.

I think 2 is the most likely. 2 > 3 > 1 for me then.

Tubby, as a grown man and vet, would not be psychologically disposed to vetoing the opinion of a more experienced player.

[Kison]

I dont know that it would have been incompetence. As I said, they may have been concerned about a tracker/watcher being out there and figured if caught out using the gun inventors weapon, no problem.

That's just it, though. Ever since when did watchers and trackers determine the weapon used? Why not just have the recipient of the gun go out and make the kill with the mafia's night kill(assuming that is possible)? What difference would it make from the perspective of the person doing the tracking/watching? But for them, it makes a difference in that using the gun wastes the future use of that kill.

My suspicious mind looks at how Kison ridicules the choice of using the gun instead of a scum kill N2, and actually I feel some truth behind his opinion, but I wonder if the vehemence behind it is because Tubby was Godfather and decided to do it that way over Kison's objections.

You made a suggestion which I'm assessing, and after my assessment I believe scum would have had far less reason to use the gun over their own kill. I can't really argue that I'm doing this from the perspective of a townie rather than the perspective of scum - I'd probably be saying this regardless of my alignment.

Secondly, does tubby216 look like someone who would push to have things his way rather than follow someone else?

[afatchic]

would it be a possibility that the mafia can only kill every other night. like n1, n3, n5; and can't kill n0, n2, n4. and maybe the scum got the gun n0/1 and used that last night instead of their scum kill.

[Korts]

would it be a possibility that the mafia can only kill every other night. like n1, n3, n5; and can't kill n0, n2, n4. and maybe the scum got the gun n0/1 and used that last night instead of their scum kill.

This theory is invalid because there was a kill n4.

I'm pushing for any possible protective/blocking roles' claims because we are down to five people and any confirmations or implications would be worth outing power roles.

But on the other hand I hadn't considered that perhaps they wouldn't want to claim if their confirmed/implicated targets are dead already.

I'd like everyone to say which scenario you think the more likely -
1: inventor gun being used in lieu of scum nk and failing
2: Doc/Roleblocker prevented a kill n2 and doesnt want to be forced to claim today
3: Scum was inattentive and didn't send in a kill

my list would go 2->3->1. I just don't really see TDC putting random choices into the roles (or if he did, the role PMs would include them). Plus flavorwise it doesn't really make sense for gun inventor guns to be any different from mafia guns.

[Adel]

he could confirm innocents and he possibly could trap scum in a massclaim.

How could he ttap them in a mass claim? its not scummy to claim that you received a gun, so why would they deny it and get caught.

whenever a town player has information that scum do not have, the potential exists to trap scum. The gun inventor would know who he gave guns to, and therefor who shouldn't have guns, and who shouldn't know that extra guns exist.

[Adel]

would it be a possibility that the mafia can only kill every other night. like n1, n3, n5; and can't kill n0, n2, n4. and

maybe the scum got the gun n0/1 and used that last night instead of their scum kill.

This theory is invalid because there was a kill n4.

he kinda just went over that. idiot

@afatchic: what is your case against Korts?

[Korts]

oh. missed that, sorry.

[afatchic]

would it be a possibility that the mafia can only kill every other night. like n1, n3, n5; and can't kill n0, n2, n4. and

maybe the scum got the gun n0/1 and used that last night instead of their scum kill.

This theory is invalid because there was a kill n4.

he kinda just went over that. idiot

So would that be allowed, and something we could look at for a bit? i have seen it where scum could only kill on odd/even nights but it was always in open games. however, that may have been what the mod did to offset a mass slaughter with the gun inventor. i need to reread some stuff before i do anything else though...

[Ectomancer]

my list would go 2->3->1. I just don't really see TDC putting random choices into the roles (or if he did, the role PMs would include them). Plus flavorwise it doesn't really make sense for gun inventor guns to be any different from mafia guns.

You really want to discourage the idea of a misfiring gun for explaining no kill on N2. You also seem to want to push to find the player that might have blocked/protected that night. You almost have me convinced, but only because I am coming to believe that you know such a role exists because you were blocked.

[Korts]

It is the most likely explanation for the lack of kills, Ecto. Your theory depends on the mod not including information which I strongly believe should be included in the role PM, as well as the mod employing a random chance-based element, something which is frowned upon by the majority of mods on-site. As for explanation no. 3, everyone here was accounted for during at least one of the no-kill nights. I don't think any more that power roles should absolutely claim now, only if they have an innocent or a guilty on someone still alive. WHICH WOULD MAKE SENSE.

[Korts]

would it be a possibility that the mafia can only kill every other night. like n1, n3, n5; and can't kill n0, n2, n4. and

maybe the scum got the gun n0/1 and used that last night instead of their scum kill.

This theory is invalid because there was a kill n4.

he kinda just went over that. idiot

So would that be allowed, and something we could look at for a bit? i have seen it where scum could only kill on odd/even nights but it was always in open games. however, that may have been what the mod did to offset a mass slaughter with the gun inventor. i need to reread some stuff before i do anything else though...

Again, I don't think this theory is particularly credible, because the scum's inability to kill on alternating nights would probably be included in the role PMs as well.

However, going back to check the role PMs, there is no specific mention of a seperate scumkill group ability; only

possible

town aligned/mafia aligned/group mafia abilities are listed. Which draws the question: do we know scum have a night kill, or is it possible that the kills were another role/ability's fault?

[Adel]

These roles are always town aligned:

You are an

Amnesiac Cop

. Each night you can investigate another player to find out whether they are in the mafia. You will, however, forget your result so you also have to name yet another player, who should receive the result of your investigation.

You are an

Amnesiac Deputy

. You will take the position of the first (Amnesiac) Cop who dies. You will then become an Amnesiac Cop.

You are a

Cop

. Each night you can investigate another player to find out whether they are in the mafia.

You are a

Deputy

. You will take the position of the first (Amnesiac) Cop who dies. You will then become a Cop.

You are a

Mason

with XX. You know that they are town, and they know that you are town. You two can talk at night.

You are a

Miller

. This means that you will always look guilty to cop investigations.

You are a

Vanilla Townie

, you have no special power.

These roles are always mafia aligned:

You are a

Godfather

. This means that you will always look innocent to cop investigations.

You are a

Goon

. You have no special powers.

The following role is neither:

You are a

Serial Killer

. Each night you can send me a target you will attempt to kill. You are immune to all night actions.

The following role can be either town or mafia aligned:

You are a

Neighbour

of XXX. You can talk with them at night, but you do not know their alignment.

All other roles can be either town aligned, mafia aligned or be a group ability of the mafia(*):

You are an

Amnesiac Tracker

. Each night you can find out who another player targeted that night. You will, however, forget your result so you also have to name yet another player, who should receive the result of your tracking.

You are an

Amnesiac Watcher

. Each night you can find out who targeted another player that night. You will, however, forget your result so you also have to name yet another player, who should receive the result of your watching.

You are a

Bodyguard

. Each night you can choose to protect another player. You will die in their place if they are targeted for a kill.

You are a

Doctor

. Each night you can choose to protect another player.

You are a

Jailkeeper

. Each night you can lock another player away. They will neither be able to perform their night action nor can anyone else perform a night action on them.

You are a

Gun Inventor

. Each night you can give another player a gun (One-Shot Vigilante) to be used on any subsequent night.

You are a

Nurse

. You will take the position of the first Doctor who dies.

You are a

One-Shot Doctor

. One night you can protect another player.

You are a

One-Shot Vigilante

. One night you can attempt to kill another player.

You are a

Roleblocker

. Each night you can prevent another player from performing their night action.

You are a

Tracker

. Each night you can find out who another player targeted that night.

You are a

Syringe Inventor

. Each night you can give another player a syringe (One-Shot Doctor) to be used on any subsequent night.

You are a

Vigilante

. Each night you can attempt to kill another player.

You are a

Watcher

. Each night you can find out who targeted another player that night.

(*)
Example: The group ability of Vigilante is identical with a mafia kill.
Note:

The last mafia member may use both one group ability and his role ability in the same night. Group abilities may or may not be used on themselves in that case

.

1.

Serial Killer

2.

Bodyguard

3.

Doctor

4.

One-Shot Doctor

5.

Roleblocker

6.

Syringe Inventor

7. "The last mafia member may use both one group ability and his role ability in the same night. Group abilities may or may not be used on themselves in that case"

[TDC]

Vote Count

Korts (2): afatchic, Adel
afatchic (2): Korts, Kison

Not Voting (1): Ectomancer

[Kison]

I'd like everyone to say which scenario you think the more likely -
1: inventor gun being used in lieu of scum nk and failing
2: Doc/Roleblocker prevented a kill n2 and doesnt want to be forced to claim today
3: Scum was inattentive and didn't send in a kill

3 > 2 > 1

[Ectomancer]

I think a couple have said it before, but who is everyone's pick for most likely to have failed to send in scum's NK?

[Kison]

afatchic->Korts->Adel

[Adel]

I just read Night Watch where afatchic was town and pivotal for his side winning the game.

unvote, vote:afatchic

[afatchic]

Adel you fail. lol. i was pivotal for my side winning because i had the most powerful role that game. Adel/korts for scum.

Guess this will be my bah post.
Bah! go town.

[Adel]

Adel you fail. lol. i was pivotal for my side winning because i had the most powerful role that game. Adel/korts for scum.

Guess this will be my bah post.
Bah! go town.

no, you paid attention and thought a couple of moves ahead. You totally don't suck at mafia, and you've been playing intellectual rope-a-dope with Korts and Kison.

You never gave a case for why you think Korts is scum.

Nice try, now please just admit you are scum, I know you've played charades before. You are legitimately lynched. Claim your alignment, please.

[afatchic]

Adel you fail. lol. i was pivotal for my side winning because i had the most powerful role that game. Adel/korts for scum.

Guess this will be my bah post.
Bah! go town.

no, you paid attention and thought a couple of moves ahead. You totally don't suck at mafia, and you've been playing intellectual rope-a-dope with Korts and Kison.

You never gave a case for why you think Korts is scum.

Nice try, now please just admit you are scum, I know you've played charades before. You are legitimately lynched. Claim your alignment, please.

No i know i don't suck, but im really wondering that about you. why would scum say bah go town?

My last will: Town lynch Adel.