Newbie 736 (Game Over)

[Porkens]

Hey guys, I'm glad the game has started!

As one of your I.C.'s, feel free to ask me questions or make me explain why I do what I do! I hope I am easy to talk to.

Good luck, have fun.

Now;
I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: Image

for calling his vote on Xtoxm random when, in fact, it isn't.

Xtoxm was the first to confirm. (or at least, his name turned bold on the list first) Overeagerness is obvscum.

Vote: Xtoxm

Yay random votes!

[Porkens]

I did not call my vote random, although deciding to vote for the first person to confirm is about as good as random when there is no relevant information in the game yet.

The problem is that you could have "randomly" voted for

anyone

and given the same kind of reason (first to confirm, last to confirm, first on the list, last on the list, etc).

By saying the vote is random, you're asking us to take your word on the claim that you would have voted for whomever was last on the list.

The fact that you defend your vote as random gives me grounds to keep my vote where it is.

Furthermore, placing an OMGUS on someone, and

stating

that it is OMGUS, reeks of WIFOM to me.

----

And I'm really not sure how I feel about this:

i'm not sure if i have to wait
until my name turns bold,
but i've been waiting a day to be
able to post, so i think i can participate
in the conversation now .

anyways, bandwagon is a very
scumish thing to do .. just to let you know .
i think you should be more careful .

FoS: Xtoxm

[Porkens]

The point is that we have to take your word for it that the vote was actually based on xtoxm's possition in the list.

The decision to vote for Xtoxm could just as easily have come before the rationalization for it. We can't know.

If you want to show us that you are voting truly randomly, you can use the dice tags. Otherwise, we have no way of knowing how you actually reached your decision.

Doing what you did is scummier than basing your vote on a roll of the die because we have no way to know what's goin' on on your side of the internet. Also, calling something random, when it isn't, is a convenient way to hide intent.

I note that you seem awfully quick to lay accusations based on something as minor as whether or not a Day One vote is truly random.

I've caught scum hiding behind "random" votes before

all i said was that it took a while
for my name to be bolded,
and i gave a reason for me to suspect Xtoxm .
i guess that's hard for you to interpret .

Sorry, I shouldn't have quoted the bit about your name. The relevant issue is the FOS instead of a Vote. It seems to me that if you suspect that Xtomx is trying to push the wagon forward because he's scum; you'd vote for him. If you think he's town making a bad move; you wouldn't FOS him.

FOS is a useful tool, but in this case it looks like your just trying to be non-committal.

[Porkens]

It seems fairly normal to vote for an insubstantial reason on Day One; yes, it is slightly more scummy than attaching dice tags along with a proof of the randomness of the algorithm used by the forum, (which itself isn't truly random, only a good approximation) but in the same vein not getting night killed on the first night is slightly more scummy than dying, but most people who live through night one are not scum, and it hardly makes a good case against someone.

Now now now, I never used the words "case" or "good" now did I?

[Porkens]

My vote isn't random or 'random'

[Porkens]

A couple interesting trends here with the votes I think.

But anyways; only two vote on Sironigous right now and he certainly needs another one.

Vote: Sironigous

Explain yourself Sir.

[Porkens]

And I would appreciate an actual defense/explanation of your vote, Sironigous, not of other people's.

... Yeah, I don't have one. o_O... It seems like no one else had reasons for theirs either.

...wow.


I'll post more later whehn

[Porkens]

my gut says that he is probably a

village idiot

What do you mean by this?

[Porkens]

Hey guys, first I'd like to give my condolences to DIonized and his family. I lost a close relative this year, and so I have some idea what a hard time this must be for you. I hope you find the strength to help yourself and your family through this difficult and horrible part of your lives.

----

Preamble

I want to give you a little insight into how I deal with ongoing Mafia games; I keep a notepad document with everyone's names and when something strikes me, I jot it down in the file under that person's name. I've been trying to do this more and more and keep my

Player by player analysis (PBPA)

posts to a minimum.

I'm telling you this because I have ideas about everyone in this game, but I'm not ready to share them all quite yet. I believe this will be a useful strategy to use against the scum. I wont withhold information, of course, but I'll keep it to myself until I think it's pertinent.

What is pertinent now

First of all; Image, to me, has come some way so far; Right off the bat; I will say that image's 'random' vote and initial defence of that vote were, and are, suspect. The vote itself doesn't carry much weight, but the fact that he initially tried to defend the randomness of his vote smacks, to me, of overdefensiveness.

He did, however, conduct himself in a logical manner after that, and it's my gut feeling that he's being genuine. I also really approve of going after lurkers.

Unvote

Fortunetly, someone else has taken over his previous role as "most scummy."

Over the last three pages, one person has really stood out as quite a bit scummier than the rest of you; ZEEnon.

ZEEnon (rep. Konsek pregame)

First, the good (questionable?):

• His unique prose aren't necessarily anti-town. It's clear to me that it works for him, and I don't find it that hard to read.
• His initial FoS seems strange to me, but that could be because I've played here a while and in the
  R
  andom
  V
  ote
  S
  tage it's just more common to see a vote.
• His 'advice' to Xtoxm could be interpreted many ways, but in this case I think it's just an honest comment. I honestly like how strongly he OMGUS'd LHNM.

But now, the bad:

• One comment really sticks out in my mind. In post 22 he says "well SORRY for sounding pro-town..." That's sarcasm I put in the scummy column. It's just so overtly put, I dunno.
• This happens again in post 25; "my goal is to find scum."
• And, after defending his decision to keep his vote on LHNM by saying "I don't suspect anyone else" and how he is SO dedicated to scum-hunting, as soon as an "I hate Pikachu" vote comes along; he unvotes!
• In post 38 he says "I find no use of it (FoS) either, but i'm just stating a majority opinion. This is in direct contradiction to his actions earleir.

At this point; I'd be happiest with a ZEEnon lynch.

Vote: ZEEnon

[Porkens]

I'd honestly like to see him at L-1 and ask for a claim from him.

[Porkens]

just one question, can people
that replace into games even be mafia ?
why would the moderator suggest to start
the game regardless of the three people
being replaced, if perhaps the scum
wasn't in the game yet ?
just me thinking out loud ..

Yes, mafia can be replaced. And the game can start before the mafia starts participating.

the rest of your response to the case against you has me himming and hawing.

Why did you not respond to this:

In post 38 he says "I find no use of it (FoS) either, but i'm just stating a majority opinion. This is in direct contradiction to his actions earleir.

[Porkens]

unvote

for the time being.

[Porkens]

Huh, that's really bizarre :p

I'm going to take a bit before I decide to re-vote for ZEEnon or present a case on my next suspect.

Hey the rest of you

feel free to chime in

!

[Porkens]

PORKENS: can you talk more please? I want to hear all of your IC knowledge and your take on this game...

hehe, flattery or sarcasm?


Anyways; there are a few others that should get to posting soon or get on a certain short-list of mine.

[Porkens]

Ok; maybe this will get some conversation going in a new direction;

@Iron Turkey:

I'd honestly like to see him at L-1 and ask for a claim from him.

unvote for the time being.

Um only slightly incongruous. Not to mention you previously said the following:

And, after defending his decision to keep his vote on LHNM by saying "I don't suspect anyone else" and how he is SO dedicated to scum-hunting, as soon as an "I hate Pikachu" vote comes along; he unvotes!

Are you asking a question here or just trying to hint at some vague accusation?

[Porkens]

hmm.

unvote; vote Xtoxm

[Porkens]

By the way, remember when I asked you to talk more? I didn't trust you much, acting as if by being IC, us new players are immediately expected to look up to you like you are God's gift to town, when you could be a wolf leading all of us sheeps into your den.

being an IC, you should know that Xtoxm's style of play is short and yes, very annoying most of the time.

How does being an IC tell me anything about xtomx's playstyle? Why are you defending him? Why are you suggesting that his 'meta' is a good defense?

[Porkens]

I guess I can appreciate what you are trying to do with me here, but I'm not sure how I've misinterpreted this;

being an IC, you should know that Xtoxm's style of play is short and yes, very annoying most of the time.

Again; how does being an IC mean that I should ~know~ anything about Xtoxm's play style? You also imply that if I

did

know it, I'd know it wasn't a scumtell. I'm not trying to put words into your mouth, so let me ask; what do you mean?


That all being said; are you comfortable just letting Xtomx slide through day 1 as is?

[Porkens]

Porkens: you're telling me you've never played with Xtoxm before? Okay, let's say you didn't before, does knowing that Xtoxm just have a shit of a playstyle change anything? Do you think your vote is still well-placed?

I believe I have, although I can't remember which game it was. But no, I don't look at playstyle as a factor, in general.

As far as this being LAL...I don't know who you think is lying here, but...?

I don't have any regrets.

[Porkens]

Blah, fine;

unvote

Well handled if you're actually having to cover for a scumbuddy LHNM.

[Porkens]

Image's vote wasn't 'random,' and it was scummy to defend it as such. But, he conducted himself fairly well after that, so he seemed more town to me.

Sironigus was acting, has acted, and continues to act scumtastic. His posts are barely readable, and he hasn't contributed, in any real way, to the conversation. The only reason I unvoted from his was...

ZEEnon was very legitimately scummy, dropping a "serious" vote for a joke OMGUS vote.

And I feel a great deal of irritation about Xtomx. I was halfway hoping some overzealous newb would hammer him, so that we wouldn't be subjected to his "oh my god I can't be bothered to play" attitude.

But, you have a valid-ish point about his playstyle (as much as I hate to admit it), and I don't see scum, especially IC scum, being so blah about it all. So as much as I'd like to make him a policy-lynch, I don't think it'd be best for town.

Have I spread my suspicions around too much? I don't think so. I've been putting pressure on those who have seemed scummy to me.

[Porkens]

@Iron Turkey: I still don't know what more you are asking for; I wanted him to claim and then I changed my mind. I think that's pretty evident from my unvote.

@ZEEnon: I never said that I observe every player's play style. In fact, if you read my last few posts; you'll see that A) I don't know anything about xtomx's playstyle (other than in this game) and B) I was actively arguing against his playstyle being a really valid point.

[Porkens]

Sorry, I thought you were trying to imply that I did, or tried to at least.

[Porkens]

Here; I'll try to inject some life with a PBPA (so much for my goal of NOT doing that)

This may be a ~little~ out of date:

LynchHimNotMe (rep. Zombie Monkey pregame)

As soon as he started posting, LynchHimNotMe has given off a very strong "follow the pack" vibe to me. His initial FOS on ZEEnon was basically a copy/paste of what I said about the same comment. His defence of the FoS seems logical enough, but then he chops down on ZEEnon and doesn't look like he's going to let go. His defense of Sironigus is really, really suspicious to me. The "follow the pack" vibe continues in [url="http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 57#1491657]Post 67[/url]; the "don't look at this as a scumtell" only strengthens the vibe. I'm not sure how I feel about the unvote from L-1; caution because of concern or the desire to feign concern? Also, I don't think there's much for ZEEnon to "explain," except maybe the switching of his possitions on the FoS. Really comes off as follow-the-pack and sound-pro-town. My day 1 scumpick team is LHNM and Sironigous.

zindionne

His first post is quite a bit after some real discussion had started. I'm not sure if he didn't read or what but his incredibly baseless vote on ZEEnon seems bizzare in context.

image

Right off the bat; I will say that image's 'random' vote and initial defence of that vote were, and are, suspect. The vote itself doesn't carry much weight, but the fact that he initially tried to defend the randomness of his vote smacks, to me, of overdefensiveness. I also really approve of going after lurkers.

He did, however, conduct himself in a logical manner after that, and it's my gut feeling that he's being genuine.

DIonized

His first vote, on image, seemed a little opportunistic (I understand that the same could be said of my vote on image). I like that he took his vote off image at L-1. FoS's everyone on page 3, in not so many words. But, he helps put pressure on Sir (kinda), which is good (kinda).

IronTurkey

Lynch all FOS-ers is an odd policy to stick to, in general, but I don't hate it on page 2 at all.

Sironigous (rep. BLEEPBLOOP/astrosquibb pregame)

Like I intimated before; his quick jump on the leading wagon, with no explanation, is scummy. I've done the same thing myself in at least half the games I've been in so far here, but you know, some of those times I was scum.

Xtoxm

Has been extremely brief with us. I'd like to hear more from him.

As an IC, I'd like to give you all some advice (it applies more to some than to others); lay off the personal attacks and insults. They are, at best, simply anti-town and, at worst, make the game not fun to play. They also wont make you any friends (at least not the kind you should want to have).

[Porkens]

ZEEnon (rep. Konsek pregame)
First, the good (questionable?):

* His unique prose aren't necessarily anti-town. It's clear to me that it works for him, and I don't find it that hard to read.
* His initial FoS seems strange to me, but that could be because I've played here a while and in the Random Vote Stage it's just more common to see a vote.
* His 'advice' to Xtoxm could be interpreted many ways, but in this case I think it's just an honest comment. I honestly like how strongly he OMGUS'd LHNM.



But now, the bad:

* One comment really sticks out in my mind. In post 22 he says "well SORRY for sounding pro-town..." That's sarcasm I put in the scummy column. It's just so overtly put, I dunno.
* This happens again in post 25; "my goal is to find scum."
* And, after defending his decision to keep his vote on LHNM by saying "I don't suspect anyone else" and how he is SO dedicated to scum-hunting, as soon as an "I hate Pikachu" vote comes along; he unvotes!
* In post 38 he says "I find no use of it (FoS) either, but i'm just stating a majority opinion. This is in direct contradiction to his actions earleir.

[Porkens]

Here; I'll try to inject some life

welp; didn't work at all.

[Porkens]

No, I don't really think Xtomx is scum (where did I say so?). I think he's doing a poor job, IC or not, explaining himself. For that, part of me want him to swing. But he does feel like town to me, so I unvoted.

LHNM; nothing is certain, so I'm allowed to have more than one guess. Reading your posts and mulling over our conversation, I came the the conclusion above. Since it was partly your influence, you deserve credit if you got me to unvote for your scumbuddy.

You and Sir is a guess, from my gut. If I had "evidence" to back it up, you bet I'd share!

[Porkens]

I don't seem to recall Xtoxm saying a word during all this time, please point to what he said that sounded town...

Sorry; bad choice of words: He

felt

town.

also, regarding the vote, are you saying you are content with voting someone who you don't think is scum?

Yes!

[Porkens]

thank you Porkens, my vote stands.

Cool! Explain why.

...does anyone else care to chip in about this??

this or

anything

else?

[Porkens]

Instead of commenting on my explanations (that you requested in your reasons for voting me) you've just said "thanks. My vote stands"

I'm asking you to comment on my explanations.

[Porkens]

So, Porkens posted all his notes and PBP analysis; however, since he is of unknown alignment, it is hard to know what to make of it. I suggest we lynch him; if he flips town, we can use his analysis as an honest aid, and if not, it hopefully will give us some insight into who his scumbuddy is. Razz

At any rate, I think so far my own guess for scum this game are ZEE and Sir. Last time ZEE had a few votes on him, he posted a huge wall of text (post 72); however, some of the claims (ie. the voting patterns) were incorrect. He makes a few incorrect statements later as well; either he is being sinister, or he is not paying close attention; either is bad for town.

I agree. With both.

Vote: ZEEnon

[Porkens]

Yep, that's the OMGUS vote with which you replaced one you'd given a logical reason for.

[Porkens]

Instead of commenting on my explanations (that you requested in your reasons for voting me) you've just said "thanks. My vote stands"

I'm asking you to comment on my explanations.

please respond.

[Porkens]

Game, thou shalt not die!!!

This has, by no measure, been the worst day 1 I've ever been part of. A lot actually got said, and there are a few avenues we've traveled down a bit.

I'm pretty glad that no one has had to claim, so far (yes, I've changed my mind). I think that, overall, strengthens the towns night-chances.

To me, Zeenon, image, Xtomx, an, sadly (:D) even, LHNM have all conducted themselves with a level of sincerity that gives them a pass for day 1.

IMHO, the scummiest thing to be doing right now is

not

voting. So i find myself again looking at Sironigous. Also, for maybe the first serious time, I'm looking at zindionne (his fifth post is so bad I can't believe it didn't really register to me before).

I propose this: Hang Sironigous. I'd be surprised if neither/both he nor zindionne are scum.

unvote, Vote: Sironigous

(P.S. if you just absolutely hate this plan or hate me, hang me)

[Porkens]

Ack!

EBWOP: This has

not

, by any measure, been the worst day 1...

[Porkens]

I'm against it!

Vote: Porkens

To be honest, I really don't think you're scum though. You're just scum hunting. :S

I guess just pretend I'm going to hang you.

...hang this man.

[Porkens]

@Porkens: Just last page you were proclaiming LHNM as your number one scum pick, and now you say he's in the clear. What made you change your mind?

Having meditated on the situation, my read of LHNM has changed. There's no "secret" information or anything I can point to.

Talk more? Honestly, I think I've been clear. Those folks "feel" town to me.

Sir does not.

[Porkens]

I see nothing in his posts that would make me think Sir is town. But if it's just gut; I can relate to that.

I would agree with you all about the OMGUS being "asked for" IFF he had had his vote on anyone prior to that. Since he saw fit to be voting for no one until i put pressure on him; scum.

[Porkens]

So your vote still means nothing.

And no one has jumped on you. you have 1 vote and an FOS. Over defensiveness.

You are scum.

[Porkens]

YESSSS, join the dark side.

Siro, I don't know what a PBPA has to do with being too defensive. I'd LOVE a PBPA from you, by the way.

I wasn't trying to present a black and white choice, I appologize if that's how it reads.

[Porkens]

sigh

. Welp, I don't want the game to die. So, even though I think Sir is an

]obvious

choice for day 1 lynch, I'll be a helper.

Unvote, vote: ZEEnon

[Porkens]

1. Why are you

only

asking why

I

am voting for you?

2. I'm not interested in your defense; I want to hang someone, to keep the game going, and you are closest.

3. I

tried

to lynch who I think is scum; and it killed the thread.

[Porkens]

2.

That being said; come on people.

[Porkens]

Unvote, Vote: Moriarty147

[Porkens]

To me, Zeenon, image, Xtomx, an, sadly (Very Happy) even, LHNM have all conducted themselves with a level of sincerity that gives them a pass for day 1.

IMHO, the scummiest thing to be doing right now is not voting. So i find myself again looking at Sironigous. Also, for maybe the first serious time, I'm looking at zindionne (his fifth post is so bad I can't believe it didn't really register to me before).

I propose this: Hang Sironigous. I'd be surprised if neither/both he nor zindionne are scum.

Vote: Sironigous

[Porkens]

?gUYS, GUY,S, GUYS, We killed a scum, this means we can play moar

[Porkens]

f

Excuse me?

[Porkens]

OHHH, sorry; I forgot

[Porkens]

Pork, classic D1 scum bussing by tacking your newb scum partner (poor zind) along with someone you know is a townie.

You know what? This is a perfectly valid reason for suspicion. I did list Zin as a secondary suspect, and I wasn't on the lynching wagon, for which I am ashamed.

I did vote Moriarty simply to keep things moving. I'm glad that that didn't screw us up.

That said; I encourage you to really look at others today before settling on me for your pick. From my point of view, I was already half right.

Sigh...I'll go through and try and persuade you why he's town. Not now, though...

I'd really honestly like to hear a case on why you think he's town.

[Porkens]

What about me , Giuseppe?

[Porkens]

Alright Xtoxm, I like your explanation. Especially since there's no way you're defending a partner

unvote

[Porkens]

Also, having looked back at Guiseppe, I find him a bit more town. His attempted unvote was after the hammer...Would scum really do that?

to save a partner? maybe?

[Porkens]

Yeh, but when he knows the chance of being allowed to unvote is minimal..

What do you mean?

[Porkens]

I mean I don't see why he would have done it if he knew he would flip scum.

So you think he genuinely wanted to unvote, and honestly tried to stop the lynch, but wouldn't have done that if he were scum because he knew it wouldn't work? Somethin' about this doesn't tickle my brain right. I'm not accusing you of trying to twist anything; I just still don't quite see the value of the unvote as a bluff, whether he is scum or not.

you mean like leading sheeps into the lion's den, yea that's helpful Rolling Eyes

Giuseppe, you're panicking...hmmm

You are sooooooo paranoid It reminds me of a younger (few months younger) me.


For now, I'm going back to my #1 suspect from most of yesterday.

Unvote, Vote ZEEnon

[Porkens]

So, let's if he hasn't come up with a decent post in his own favor in this current 24 hour window, we hang him.

[Porkens]

Even if it's a self-imposed time limit? RE:

I will expand on this point more tomorrow. (erm.. today; 12:50 a.m.)

[Porkens]

L-1. I'd like a claim.

[Porkens]

EDIT: L-1. I'd like a claim.

or a hammer

[Porkens]

When I say we, I speak for town-aligned players in general. Do you not think that we deserve to know what Sironigous feels? Since I asked him how he feels, he has decided that I am scummy.

When you ask me for what I feel for the town to hear, I assume you mean everything.

You're not getting that.

You see, I'm not going to give the general public my point of the game all the way to the very last thought.

There ARE strangers out there. You don't give them your home address. At most, you give them the state/province/country/hemisphere. One day, you might just get a strange person knocking at your door to kill you - particularly in the darkness of the night.

However, these strangers have ruined the reputation of the outside world - of course, the few minority ruin the reputation of the "outside world."

It's much harder to mess someone up with general information.
On the contrary, it's easier to expand on general information.


Vague, sure.
Helpful, maybe.
Concerned, yes.

I'm sorry, but; what? How was this helpful?

[Porkens]

2 posts in a

row

without saying anything about your desire to lynch me?

I feel...almost hurt

[Porkens]

Hehe, I had a feeling. high-fives all around.

Why'd you investigate me Sir?

[Porkens]

You mean all the

right

and awesome places.

[Porkens]

I guess my real question was why me as opposed to Xtomx?;)