Mini 733- Congratulations! You are... Mafia (Game Over)

[Mirth]

Votecount

Sly - i - [Dahill, cow, Darox]
Elvis - forgot -[Plum]
Isacc - how - [Kmd, imaginality]
Darox - to - [Des]
Dahill - count. - [Sly]
PJ - help - [Glork]

Not Voting - me? - [Caf, Isacc, Elvis]

Cups of Lemonade Bought: 1

Deadline reminder: Monday, Feb 16, 11:59 PM EST

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd: Your argument IS that you feel I am scummy. You have NOT explained that it isn't circular logic (because it IS), in fact I have shown quotes of you where you word for word made a circular argument.

You have no case because you have not given any reason to suspect me of lying. That means, you have no case.

About your "If Des knew you wanted a reaction," If you read the quote you JUST quoted, I said that Destructor couldn't have known what reactions I was looking for, so they

wouldn't

be crafted. Christ, you have no clue what you are even saying. It's like arguing with Empking. No wonder Dahill found you scummy earlier.

Yes, I feel that you are scummy. No, it's not for no reason. It's because of your plan to get Des Modkilled/lynched. No, I don't feel your explanation that you were after reactions was truthful. BUT, I'm not trying to say that your plan was scummy BECAUSE your explanation is untruthful. I'm saying it was scummy because it would result in Des's death regardless of what happened. If you don't get it now, I'm done explaining. It should make sense by now that there is no circular logic because your scumminess doesn't depend on your explanation that you were after reactions and it's more the plan itself.

I think if Des knew you wanted reactions, the reactions would be crafted based on a WIFOM guess at what you were after. There's no way you could get an accurate read from that.


@Des, I've seen the argument you are presenting about Glork before. You are saying that the game is in LYLO early because he can't vote (or at least not for real players). This is true. What is also true is that by lynching him, we put ourselves in basically the same situation. If he is town, it's a mislynch and likely a scum kill. That's 2 dead townies and another step toward LYLO. Basically, lynching him is counterproductive unless you think he is scum.

Actually, in Weasles Mafia, undo had a role that required L+2 votes to lynch. Anyone up for trying to put more votes on Sly to see what happens?

I was thinking maybe it would take a unanimous vote. I'd be willing to try it. If he survives with everyone, including himself, voting for him, I think it basically confirms him as unlynchable which I don't think could be a scum role.

Also, there seem to be two "plans" that get referred to. The first is the one he proposed - that I stop posting German and get lynched if I do. That was a bad plan. The second plan is his gambit - that he would use the manner in which I agreed to it to gauge my alignment. This wasn't a great plan either, but doesn't come across as scummy either.

I think kmd and co. are arguing that plan 2 never existed and that plan 1 was scummy.

"Plan 2" was his explanation for "Plan 1" after we found "Plan 1" scummy. It looks like you see the argument though.

Fraud: half-joke/half role-related

Is there a reason you are softclaiming like this?

[hasdgfas]

a role-related reason is not the same as softclaiming anything.

[Kmd4390]

You said your role was awesome and that "fraud" was role-related. Assumptions about your role can be made based on these statements. That's a softclaim. Now, why are you doing it?

[hasdgfas]

You said your role was awesome and that "fraud" was role-related. Assumptions about your role can be made based on these statements. That's a softclaim. Now, why are you doing it?

Why do you think I'm doing it? Do you think I would be saying my role is awesome normally?

[Kmd4390]

You said your role was awesome and that "fraud" was role-related. Assumptions about your role can be made based on these statements. That's a softclaim. Now, why are you doing it?

Why do you think I'm doing it? Do you think I would be saying my role is awesome normally?

Are you asking me to answer my own question for you? I'd like an answer before I speculate on this.

[dahill1]

lolmgus from sly. "anyone attempting to lynch me is scum". i can't even possibly imagine how that can't be OMGUS
to answer des: the first thing you quoted was just joking around but it meant slight FoS, basically
the second part, i can't recall what i was thinking/what i was trying to say at the time. sorry

[Isacc]

@Kmd: You are an idiot, and I am done explaining this. You have no clue what you are saying, because you can't understand basic common sense. Luckily, I think the rest of the players in this game are smarter than that.

@Cow: Is the "fraud" thing related to YOUR role?

[SlySly]

lolmgus from sly. "anyone attempting to lynch me is scum". i can't even possibly imagine how that can't be OMGUS

I said today.

I already told everyone the lynch on me today would fail and now it has been proven. Anyone insisting on pushing my lynch today is scum wasting the town's time. Scum that cannot bring themselves to move away from a townie that they know everyone supported lynching.

The lynch failed and will continue to fail today, move on, scum.

[dahill1]

lolmgus from sly. "anyone attempting to lynch me is scum". i can't even possibly imagine how that can't be OMGUS

I said today.

I already told everyone the lynch on me today would fail and now it has been proven. Anyone insisting on pushing my lynch today is scum wasting the town's time. Scum that cannot bring themselves to move away from a townie that they know everyone supported lynching.

The lynch failed and will continue to fail today, move on, scum.

i can call people scum too but that doesn't make me right
this logic fails in that you are assuming that everybody thinks you're town and no one thinks you're scum which isn't true.

[Isacc]

I agree with Sly in that it'd be a waste of time to try to lynch him, as I don't find it likely we'll lynch him today (he was right before, was he not?). Better off trying to find a better lynch.

Personally, though, I don't find Dahill to be scummy for pushing the lynch, just overly-optimistic, or at least that's how his tone looks to me.

[SlySly]

this logic fails in that you are assuming that everybody thinks you're town and no one thinks you're scum which isn't true.

I'm not assuming anyone doesn't think I am scum, but continuing to push a lynch that has been proven to fail is scummy, scum. Feel free to try and lynch me again tomorrow, assuming you survive that long and you still feel the need.

[dahill1]

this logic fails in that you are assuming that everybody thinks you're town and no one thinks you're scum which isn't true.

I'm not assuming anyone doesn't think I am scum, but continuing to push a lynch that has been proven to fail is scummy, scum. Feel free to try and lynch me again tomorrow, assuming you survive that long and you still feel the need.

it has not been proven that you are completely unlynchable yet
and i find it interesting why you think that i (if i'm scum) would be night killed tonight?
and yes, i will try again tomorrow

[SlySly]

Why do you think I'm doing it?

I know this question was not directed at me, but I can see 2 reasons why you would be doing such.

1. You are a town power role and you are soft claiming that to subtly push the town into searching elsewhere for scum without revealing exactly what power your awesome role gives you.

2. You are scum trying to convince the town that you are really doing number 1.

Do you think I would be saying my role is awesome normally?

Only if your role was equally awesome in another said game and you were doing one of the above 2 things in that game as well.

---------------------------

it has not been proven that you are completely unlynchable yet

I will not be lynched today. That is all that has been proven thus far.

and i find it interesting why you think that i (if i'm scum) would be night killed tonight?

1. You could be lynched today.
2. You could be killed by a night action.

I'm not saying either will happen but neither is out of the question.

and yes, i will try again tomorrow

It sounds to me that you are hellbent on pushing my lynch no matter what the circumstances are. What if someone reveals an innocent investigation on me tomorrow? Will you still push my lynch tomorrow in that case or will you just try to convince everyone that the investigator is not sane?

[dahill1]

if a cop came out with an innocent on anybody i'd be doubtful since this is a bastard game
but if you a confirmed town of course i won't try to lynch you

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd: You are an idiot, and I am done explaining this. You have no clue what you are saying, because you can't understand basic common sense. Luckily, I think the rest of the players in this game are smarter than that.

Way to actually listen to what I am saying.

[Isacc]

Kmd, what you are saying is nonsense. You simply do not see it.

[hasdgfas]

Why do you think I'm doing it?

I know this question was not directed at me, but I can see 2 reasons why you would be doing such.

1. You are a town power role and you are soft claiming that to subtly push the town into searching elsewhere for scum without revealing exactly what power your awesome role gives you.

2. You are scum trying to convince the town that you are really doing number 1.

Do you think I would be saying my role is awesome normally?

Only if your role was equally awesome in another said game and you were doing one of the above 2 things in that game as well.

You said your role was awesome and that "fraud" was role-related. Assumptions about your role can be made based on these statements. That's a softclaim. Now, why are you doing it?

Why do you think I'm doing it? Do you think I would be saying my role is awesome normally?

Are you asking me to answer my own question for you? I'd like an answer before I speculate on this.

let's just say that it was "suggested" that I talk about how awesome my role is, which wasn't hard.

@Sly: Maybe in a more normal game those 2 would be the only reasons, but you have to remember that this has some more evil things.

@Cow: Is the "fraud" thing related to YOUR role?

I'm not going further into it. I don't want to claim right now.

[caf19]

caf, what will happen if you don't sell 3 cups of lemonade? You implied that you may die. What made you think that?

I'm dying to tell you the answer to this question, but unfortunately I'm not at liberty to do so.

Kmd, although it isn't impossible, I don't think it's likely I have any gnomes. Don't suppose anything happened when you tried to buy one off me?

Meanwhile, Darox is continuing to be evasive and not contribute to cases on anyone. Darox, now that I answered the question you asked in 557, have you got anything to say regarding my suspicions of you?

[destructor]

Sly, nothing has been proven besides the fact that putting you at 7 votes didn't lynch you last time. Nothing has proven that you can't be lynched today with more votes than would normally be required or even that you might have had something like a 1-shot lynch immunity, or maybe 2-shot, who knows. The point is that it's completely unreasonable and irrational for you to be saying anyone who intends to try to get you lynched from now on is auto-scum just because, literally, you said so.

Your method of "proving" your claim was really stupid and I'm pissed that you did it if you're town. There was very little sense in doing it because you haven't done a thing to confirm your alignment, which is what we're actually interested in.

Your play, through your own admission, was intentionally anti-town so it should be no surprise that a bunch of us think you look scummy and want to lynch you.

@Des, I've seen the argument you are presenting about Glork before. You are saying that the game is in LYLO early because he can't vote (or at least not for real players). This is true. What is also true is that by lynching him, we put ourselves in basically the same situation. If he is town, it's a mislynch and likely a scum kill. That's 2 dead townies and another step toward LYLO. Basically, lynching him is counterproductive unless you think he is scum.

Yeah, but I haven't seen anything that compels me to believe he isn't scum. Unless something changes, I think he's a policy lynch for the day before LYLO, at the latest.

I still like my condorcet. I think the only good wagons today are on Darox or imaginality. Waiting for Glork to check in...

[SlySly]

@Sly: Maybe in a more normal game those 2 would be the only reasons, but you have to remember that this has some more evil things.

Duly noted.

[destructor]

I have a specific reason to believe caf is good people and I'd rather he stayed alive.

Buy: Lemonade

[destructor]

Ich habe nicht die in Deutsch für eine Weile jetzt.

[SlySly]

Sly, nothing has been proven besides the fact that putting you at 7 votes didn't lynch you last time.

Putting me there again today will have the same result.

Nothing has proven that you can't be lynched today with more votes than would normally be required or even that you might have had something like a 1-shot lynch immunity, or maybe 2-shot, who knows.

Well, you should waste the town's time and lead another lynch attempt on me for today. If you get everyone to vote me, I'll even vote myself. Quit playing outguess the mod and give up on me for the day, it is a waste of time just as I stated long ago.

The point is that it's completely unreasonable and irrational for you to be saying anyone who intends to try to get you lynched from now on is auto-scum just because, literally, you said so.

Actually, from my point of view, it is perfectly reasonable and rational. Plus, "because Sly said so" is a damn good reason.

Your method of "proving" your claim was really stupid and I'm pissed that you did it if you're town.

Oh no!!! I have upset scum!!

This is not a 'normal' game. My role is not a 'normal' role. Why would you expect me, or anyone else in this game, to act 'normal'?

[destructor]

This should take no more than 12 posts.

Unvote
Vote: Sly

Everyone vote Sly. If nothing happens, we can simply put our votes back where they were. No harm done, a trivial amount of time taken.