Newbie 732 - Abandoned

[Tucking Fypo]

Alright, I want to spice things up a bit. I am the cop.

I demand protection tonight. At this point I am either going to investigate OrangePenguin or Infinis.

What if there is no doctor?

What if there is no cop?

Why me and Infinis? Any particular reasons? Was it because I random voted you?

I don't remember you randomly voting for me. Not really anything particular. There isn't much to go off of in the beginning. Just instincts and I am looking at your reactions.

[Furpants_Tom]

Thanks, perfect.

Blizzire: 4 out of 4 complete.
Orangepenguin: 4 out of 4 complete.
luchs: 2 out of 4 complete.
Honko: 4 out of 4 complete.
Tucking Fypo: 3 out of 4 complete. (I'm counting his intent to investigate orangepenguin and Infinis as scum-votes, here)
roflcopter: 0 out of 4 complete.
Actarus: 3 out of 4 complete.
Infinis: 4 out of 4 complete.

[Tucking Fypo]

Thanks, perfect.

Blizzire: 4 out of 4 complete.
Orangepenguin: 4 out of 4 complete.
luchs: 2 out of 4 complete.
Honko: 4 out of 4 complete.
Tucking Fypo: 3 out of 4 complete. (I'm counting his intent to investigate orangepenguin and Infinis as scum-votes, here)
roflcopter: 0 out of 4 complete.
Actarus: 3 out of 4 complete.
Infinis: 4 out of 4 complete.

What part am I missing another possible civ? If so I think luchs is a possible civ.

[Furpants_Tom]

Blizzire: 4 out of 4 complete.
Orangepenguin: 4 out of 4 complete.
luchs: 2 out of 4 complete.
Honko: 4 out of 4 complete.
Tucking Fypo: 4 out of 4 complete. (I'm counting his intent to investigate orangepenguin and Infinis as scum-votes, here)
roflcopter: 0 out of 4 complete.
Actarus: 3 out of 4 complete.
Infinis: 4 out of 4 complete.

So far, so good.

OK, response time:

Furpants saying he has some "secret info" he won't share until we post enough doesn't look good to me.

Fair enough. But this is a short game; 5 nights at the longest, and there's every chance that I won't live through the coming night - so I may as well trade the one card I have early for something of value. Whether I make it or not; a half-decent townie ought to be able to read something into the data that I've squeezed out of this thread.
Re: Feb 13th; yeah, it's pretty standard to maximise the time in daylight. A quick lynch is a poor lynch, in general terms. Even if you know who needs to die; it's still better to stretch out the day and get as much chatter out as possible. IMHO.

Alright, I want to spice things up a bit. I am the cop.

I demand protection tonight. At this point I am either going to investigate OrangePenguin or Infinis.

That's some spicy enchillada, right there. Ballsy, considering there's no guarantee that there's even a doctor in the house - but then, the scum don't know either, and if there is one, you're probably the safest person in town once the sun goes down.

If you're actually the cop, you have a 50/50 shot of just having signed your death warrant. It's probably worth the mafia's while taking a shot at you just to find out if there is a doctor - or wipe out the only other town role. You'll be more credible tomorrow; but it's not the way I would have played it - because we need the cop to survive N1.

If you're only a townie, you're protecting the cop. Good work! And the doctor, if they exist, should still protect you. But you're risking derailing the whole townie game by keeping up the pretence and declaring scum innocent or a townie guilty tomorrow. And if you get it demonstrably wrong, you'll further screw up the plans by wasting a lynch the next night. If you are a regular townie, please, please, please let us know first thing tomorrow; or you could really do us some damage.

If you're scum, then there's a 50/50 chance that there's now a cop about to investigate you. Bad news. But that's balanced by the possibility that you can outtalk them tomorrow; and survive to day 3. If there's no alternate cop, you're sitting pretty; and there's every chance you can exert undue influence from here on out. And tie up the doctor. We'll need to keep watching you very carefully.

Basically, I see it as a risky scum play; a solid town play, or a risky cop play. So I rather hope you're on our team; and your bravado feels townie, but I'm far from convinced.

Furpants I don't believe you have any information other than your own role. And any role claim at this point is WIFOM

This is all true. But that doesn't mean that my knowledge is worthless - I've already traded up for much, much better information.

However, as stated previously, with two weeks pending there seems to be an over exuberance from you to get things rolling.

You know we don't have to wait the full two weeks, right? I think we should; but there's those here who clearly disagree - Honko, for example. So I'd rather make hay while the sun shines, get everyone talking, and get some data out of the group while I have the chance.

I'm much more concerned about the people who keep trying to shut down the conversation - seriously, what's that about? Conversation is all we townies have, let's make use of it before we start dropping like flies.

Also: Hiding behind rationality? Say whut? Because irrationality would be a much better townie tactic, clearly.

see you started talking and I'll remove my vote, its what happens when I notice lurking versus inactivity.

Imitation is indeed the sincerest form of flattery. I like this guy, I hope he's not scum.

A player who I think is scum: Tucking Fyto I don't trust because he trusts Furpants_Tom, a person who I think is scum.
A player who I think is scum: orangepenguin is not on my list to trust because he, like Tucking Fyto, also trusts Furpants_Tom.
A player who I trust: I trust Infinis because he has the same idea I have about Furpants_Tom and Tucking Fyto.
A player who I trust: Actarus. He and I share similar beliefs that Furpants_Tom and Tucking Fyto are sums.

Cranky townie is cranky. I doubt a mobster would be making such a spectacle of himself; but I've yet to hear anything useful come from the blizz corner, so it's a distinction without a difference. I wouldn't bother investigating or lynching him at this point.

What part am I missing another possible civ? If so I think luchs is a possible civ.

Alright, I think I see some factions forming; and I'm not keen to have that continue. That way spells disaster.

So far, we have

The More Talk faction:

Furpants_Tom, Tucking Fypo, luchs, and orangepenguin. They are generally agreed on the need for the town to talk more.
And we have

the Less Talk faction:

Actarus, Infinis and blizzire. They are generally suspicious of those trying to get more conversation happening.

roflcopter and Honko seem unaligned at this point. I could be wrong, though.

luchs seems well trusted by just about everyone - including Actarus and Infinis. Infinis also seems pretty well liked, including by me. orangepenguin cops a lot of flak - including from Honko and luchs - which confuses me a little. He's pretty deadpan, but that doesn't explain it.

If I were the scum, I would have tried to get one mafiosi on each faction; and keep the trouble going. I think blizzire, myself and Tucking Fypo are making themselves too prominent to be first tier mafiosi. I think Infinis is flying without a safety net, and is probably town. So that leaves Actarus on one faction. On the other, luchs is generally trusted, while orangepenguin is generally distrusted; but I'm not totally sure why. On balance, I'd probably go with the general gut feeling, and back orangepenguin for mafia.

There's also the possibility that the mafia are just backing the "Don't talk" side, and have roflcopter held in reserve. He's been away a fair while, and hasn't given us much of an idea of where he's coming from on any of the chief issues. Nor has he given us his list of suspicions. Sure, the superbowl is good and all; but it's also a pretty convenient excuse to go submariner on us while there's biffo going on.

So, in conclusion, I think Actarus is our best shot at scum. After him, I'd nominate roflcopter and orangepenguin as no. 3. I think Tucking Fypo probably isn't the cop; but if he lives through the night, there's a fair chance he's scum.
And I think blizz won't miss me when I'm dead.

[Honko]

You know we don't have to wait the full two weeks, right? I think we should; but there's those here who clearly disagree - Honko, for example. So I'd rather make hay while the sun shines, get everyone talking, and get some data out of the group while I have the chance.

I don't have time to say much more until later today but I just wanted to say that I'm not really in a rush, I just honestly didn't know whether it was typical for long days to be fully used or not. If we find something really scummy, I don't think it's necessary to wait the full time, but at this point we don't have much to go on so I'm all for waiting and talking more.

[Actarus]

So Tucking Fypo claimed a cop on day 1...interesting.

So, in conclusion, I think Actarus is our best shot at scum. After him, I'd nominate roflcopter and orangepenguin as no. 3. I think Tucking Fypo probably isn't the cop; but if he lives through the night, there's a fair chance he's scum.
And I think blizz won't miss me when I'm dead.

Like Orange, I appreciate your effort and logic, but you're wrong.

[Furpants_Tom]

That's probably true. But at least there's some reasoning behind it. OTOH, you nominated orangepenguin and me as scummy, but haven't really given much in the way of info on why - care to elaborate on those?

[Furpants_Tom]

Unvote
Vote Actarus

*Puts money where mouth is*

[Infinis]

...

Furpants I don't believe you have any information other than your own role. And any role claim at this point is WIFOM

This is all true. But that doesn't mean that my knowledge is worthless - I've already traded up for much, much better information.

The analysis of the "factions" is interesting. But traded up information seems highly improbable considering you have no baseline to compare your information against all the WIFOM that could be and probably is out in the thread.

However, as stated previously, with two weeks pending there seems to be an over exuberance from you to get things rolling.

You know we don't have to wait the full two weeks, right? I think we should; but there's those here who clearly disagree - Honko, for example. So I'd rather make hay while the sun shines, get everyone talking, and get some data out of the group while I have the chance.

I'm much more concerned about the people who keep trying to shut down the conversation - seriously, what's that about? Conversation is all we townies have, let's make use of it before we start dropping like flies.

My point being cop claim and a survey because what things are going to slow?

Also: Hiding behind rationality? Say whut? Because irrationality would be a much better townie tactic, clearly.

Yes and No. If someone started posting long rants and gibberish, what would you think? Scum or crazy town?

A rational, logical poster who analyzes everything has a perfect WIFOM shield. If that person is challenged as scum people have to a pick apart the analysis in several places or agree with the analyst. Most people are too lazy or indifferent to pick apart a long post. In some cases, the post is so fair and balanced that it is easier to say the analyst is town, since the analyst will most surely respond to any attacks in kind. In the late game the analyst can say if I'm scum show me when I did anything scummy, and if I am scum why go through all that effort when I could lurk and be safer.

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote Count

Actarus: (2) orangepenguin, Furpants_Tom
Furpants_Tom: (1) roflcopter

Not voting: Actarus, Tucking Fypo, Honko, blizzire, Infinis, luchs

Five votes to lynch. Deadline: February 14

[Honko]

What's WIFOM?

[Actarus]

Unvote
Vote Actarus

*Puts money where mouth is*

Go for it, but my warning to you is that once my role is revealed, it'll make you look VERY bad.

[Infinis]

What's WIFOM?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Wifom

[luchs]

I also think that tucking fypo, has a good chance of being town, because he is active and talks plenty.

I am unsure at the moment of my second scum however I am not sure about honko though.

Also for new people you can read 1 person threads by going to the bottom and switcing it from all users to a specific person.

[roflcopter]

yo, catching up right now from my last post, expect a postzilla soonish

[orangepenguin]

Also for new people you can read 1 person threads by going to the bottom and switcing it from all users to a specific person.

Ah, everyone should be aware of this. It took me about 3-4 months, or so, before I discovered that nifty tool. It makes looking at posts in isolation much much easier, and is very helpful.

[luchs]

Thats why I figured I should point it out.

[roflcopter]

And chances are we will lynch the wrong person - I'd rather we acknowledge that today instead of getting the idea we can solve the puzzle right off the bat.

see, this is both unnecessarily defeatist and scummy. you're making excuses for what you're already saying will be a mislynch.

If we're going to have a chance of hanging scum tomorrow, we need 15 or more pages of conversation - and votes - to analyse by the 14th. It's pretty clear I don't believe in leaving my vote hanging around, and I've hardly been reticent about getting involved in debate, have I?

i disagree, and i don't see where you're pulling this arbitrary number of pages that we'll supposedly need tomorrow out of. regardless of how many or few pages we have, we'll have the information we need. i think we already do.

3 weeks seem like a long time for a day. I am used to playing a day that last 24 hours on a different site, so this should be interesting.

you guys are actually lucky that this game started with a deadline in place, thats new for newbie games. way it used to be, there was no deadline, and days very often dragged on for a month or more.

roflcopter and luchs, I like the way you work, keep it up.

this feels like you're trying to buddy up to me and luchs

Come on, guys; quit playing so conservatively. If you lot don't start throwing some mud around, we'll never see what sticks.

I've given you all plenty to work with, so far - if there's a pattern to my accusations, you'll continue to get a steady stream of data to discern it. But blizzire, Honko and orangepenguin, you're giving us next to nothing to go on. Infinis and Actarus, it wouldn't hurt to have a bit more info from you two, as well. And tucking fypo is brand new, so some initial thoughts would be appreciated. roflcopter and luchs, I like the way you work, keep it up.

Oh, and specifically - Infinis, what makes you think I'm scumbuddies with Actarus or roflcopter?

I feel you are back-and-forth a lot between the both of them. From my limited experience, it usually boils down to two voices battling it out and the town picking sides Day 1. When a third person gets in the mix, I feel that at least one of these three people is scum, if not more.

woah.

fos: infinis

. this seems like a totally arbitrary way to declare that "one of these three people is scum." you're not even using what we're saying, just the fact that the three of us are talking. and this is a clever way for scum to manipulate mislynches. you can keep trying to lynch the three of us saying "well, he wasn't scum, so i'll try the next one."

That being said, I felt the fear and/or anger over that second vote during random, so I'll

unvote. FoS luchs

instead of vote since he did try to explain his actions.

and why are you afraid to vote? don't want to have a record in the vote tallies? an fos isn't good for much if you're not willing to actually vote a person. foses are much better serving an auxiliary to your vote, as in, vote this person, but i'm also suspcious of you so fos.

roflcopter: I like the way he asks questions, even if no-one really answers them. Trying to pull strategic information out of individuals is good town play, but mostly pointless for the mob; so unless his questions are pure fluff, or cunningly designed to sow division and distrust (which they're not), I like him for town. Actually, I kinda like him for Cop.

woah! red alert!

why

would you ever say that you think a player is the cop?? to me this looks like a message for your scumbuddy.

Furpants saying he has some "secret info" he won't share until we post enough doesn't look good to me. Why withhold information from the rest of the town? You've been pushing votes on all the quiet people so far because you want more data out on the playing field. That's fair enough, but then it seems kind of hypocritical if you're keeping your thoughts to yourself.

i strongly agree with this statement

Alright, I want to spice things up a bit. I am the cop.

I demand protection tonight. At this point I am either going to investigate OrangePenguin or Infinis.

uh........
if your claim is true, you just totally neutralized all the usefullness of your role. did you look at the setup?

This game uses an F11 setup. One of the following four setups was chosen at random:

A) 1 Mafia Goon & 1 Mafia Roleblocker vs 5 Townies, 1 Doctor, & 1 Cop
B)

1 Mafia Goon & 1 Mafia Roleblocker vs 7 Townies

C) 2 Mafia Goons vs 6 Townies & 1 Cop
D)

2 Mafia Goons vs 6 Townies & 1 Doctor

notice anything? if you are the cop, there are only two possible setups. either there is not a doctor, in which case you die before any useful investigations happen, or there is a mafia roleblocker, in which case you'll never actually get a successful investigation.

Unvote
Vote Actarus

*Puts money where mouth is*

Go for it, but my warning to you is that once my role is revealed, it'll make you look VERY bad.

this is a very big appeal to fear. super scummy. i can support an actarus lynch based on this post alone.

so after catching up, i'm still of the opinion that furpants_tom is mafia and needs to be lynched. infinis and actarus are both also pinging my scumdar in big ways, and i would be willing to switch my vote to either of them if it becomes necessary to ensure a lynch at deadline. i'm hoping this won't be the case however.

on the subject of waiting around twiddling our thumbs til deadline, here's how i see it. for now, discussion is flowing, thats good. but if discussion dries up or a consensus is formed on who to lynch, crying "we still have x days til deadline we should use them all!" is unnecessary stalling. i've seen too many games become lurkfests because people demand that every available day before deadline be utilized. i'd rather just reach a majority lynch when a majority consensus is realized. and thats all i have to say about that.

who's scum 1:

furpants_tom, reasons already provided in posts

who's scum 2:

infinis, reasons already provided in posts

who's town 1:

honko, his post i qft'd is right on the money and very protown

who's town 2:

luchs, just a general vibe, i'm much less sure about this one than honko

@tom, that was a good exercise, and having everyone's opinions forced out of them like that will be a goodmine of information on later days, but withholding some bit of information and using it as a specter to coerce cooperation is terribly scummy.

[Infinis]

And chances are we will lynch the wrong person - I'd rather we acknowledge that today instead of getting the idea we can solve the puzzle right off the bat.

see, this is both unnecessarily defeatist and scummy. you're making excuses for what you're already saying will be a mislynch.

If we're going to have a chance of hanging scum tomorrow, we need 15 or more pages of conversation - and votes - to analyse by the 14th. It's pretty clear I don't believe in leaving my vote hanging around, and I've hardly been reticent about getting involved in debate, have I?

i disagree, and i don't see where you're pulling this arbitrary number of pages that we'll supposedly need tomorrow out of. regardless of how many or few pages we have, we'll have the information we need. i think we already do.

3 weeks seem like a long time for a day. I am used to playing a day that last 24 hours on a different site, so this should be interesting.

you guys are actually lucky that this game started with a deadline in place, thats new for newbie games. way it used to be, there was no deadline, and days very often dragged on for a month or more.

roflcopter and luchs, I like the way you work, keep it up.

this feels like you're trying to buddy up to me and luchs

Come on, guys; quit playing so conservatively. If you lot don't start throwing some mud around, we'll never see what sticks.

I've given you all plenty to work with, so far - if there's a pattern to my accusations, you'll continue to get a steady stream of data to discern it. But blizzire, Honko and orangepenguin, you're giving us next to nothing to go on. Infinis and Actarus, it wouldn't hurt to have a bit more info from you two, as well. And tucking fypo is brand new, so some initial thoughts would be appreciated. roflcopter and luchs, I like the way you work, keep it up.

Oh, and specifically - Infinis, what makes you think I'm scumbuddies with Actarus or roflcopter?

I feel you are back-and-forth a lot between the both of them. From my limited experience, it usually boils down to two voices battling it out and the town picking sides Day 1. When a third person gets in the mix, I feel that at least one of these three people is scum, if not more.

woah.

fos: infinis

. this seems like a totally arbitrary way to declare that "one of these three people is scum." you're not even using what we're saying, just the fact that the three of us are talking. and this is a clever way for scum to manipulate mislynches. you can keep trying to lynch the three of us saying "well, he wasn't scum, so i'll try the next one."

I see now you're willing to post after you're accused of the

possibility

of being scum. Not arbitrary at all, as I said in my experience, I did not say in anyway that what I stated was a fact. I stated that it seems to always play out that way, a scum goads on two townies, and by the end of the back and forthing, the town picks sides and we mislynch.

That being said, I felt the fear and/or anger over that second vote during random, so I'll

unvote. FoS luchs

instead of vote since he did try to explain his actions.

and why are you afraid to vote? don't want to have a record in the vote tallies? an fos isn't good for much if you're not willing to actually vote a person. foses are much better serving an auxiliary to your vote, as in, vote this person, but i'm also suspcious of you so fos.

Difference in playing style. I FoS when I have suspicions but not enough evidence to vote. I don't piggyback FoS'es on my votes.

Alright, I want to spice things up a bit. I am the cop.

I demand protection tonight. At this point I am either going to investigate OrangePenguin or Infinis.

uh........
if your claim is true, you just totally neutralized all the usefullness of your role. did you look at the setup?

This game uses an F11 setup. One of the following four setups was chosen at random:

A) 1 Mafia Goon & 1 Mafia Roleblocker vs 5 Townies, 1 Doctor, & 1 Cop
B)

1 Mafia Goon & 1 Mafia Roleblocker vs 7 Townies

C) 2 Mafia Goons vs 6 Townies & 1 Cop
D)

2 Mafia Goons vs 6 Townies & 1 Doctor

notice anything? if you are the cop, there are only two possible setups. either there is not a doctor, in which case you die before any useful investigations happen, or there is a mafia roleblocker, in which case you'll never actually get a successful investigation.

Unvote
Vote Actarus

*Puts money where mouth is*

Go for it, but my warning to you is that once my role is revealed, it'll make you look VERY bad.

this is a very big appeal to fear. super scummy. i can support an actarus lynch based on this post alone.

ding ding ding, my thoughts exactly on the subject.

so after catching up, i'm still of the opinion that furpants_tom is mafia and needs to be lynched. infinis and actarus are both also pinging my scumdar in big ways, and i would be willing to switch my vote to either of them if it becomes necessary to ensure a lynch at deadline. i'm hoping this won't be the case however.

on the subject of waiting around twiddling our thumbs til deadline, here's how i see it. for now, discussion is flowing, thats good. but if discussion dries up or a consensus is formed on who to lynch, crying "we still have x days til deadline we should use them all!" is unnecessary stalling. i've seen too many games become lurkfests because people demand that every available day before deadline be utilized. i'd rather just reach a majority lynch when a majority consensus is realized. and thats all i have to say about that.

Oh dear god do some days drag on, the deadline is appreciated.

As to FurToms activity,
Scum lists/Town lists are just a WIFOM whirlpool.

For instance, player A "roflcopter was just bussing his partner I say we lynch both him and Infinis!"

Response: No, I thought Infinis was scummy back then and now he's acted more protown.

[Furpants_Tom]

see, this is both unnecessarily defeatist and scummy. you're making excuses for what you're already saying will be a mislynch.

It's true, is what it is. I don't see any value in convincing everyone that our first lynch will be successful; because they virtually never are. Instead, we have to be prepared for that, and not instantly turn on whoever cast the last vote, because no sensible mafiosi hammers.

i disagree, and i don't see where you're pulling this arbitrary number of pages that we'll supposedly need tomorrow out of. regardless of how many or few pages we have, we'll have the information we need. i think we already do.

Yes, it's arbitrary; but it's in the ballpark. And I strongly disagree that we have the information we need. If we had the information we needed, we would know already who the mafia are. We don't; and we don't know what information will get us there, either; so we have to keep collecting it.

this feels like you're trying to buddy up to me and luchs

I was; because I think you're probably legit. Maybe.

woah.

fos: infinis

. this seems like a totally arbitrary way to declare that "one of these three people is scum." you're not even using what we're saying, just the fact that the three of us are talking. and this is a clever way for scum to manipulate mislynches. you can keep trying to lynch the three of us saying "well, he wasn't scum, so i'll try the next one."

It's bad logic; yes. But I'm still not convinced Infinis is scum.

woah! red alert!

why

would you ever say that you think a player is the cop?? to me this looks like a message for your scumbuddy.

Why on earth would I be sending a message to my scumbuddy in the public thread? And why wouldn't I say a player is the cop? If I'm getting a vibe, I'll let the town know; because I mightn't be around tomorrow to chat about it.

i strongly agree with this statement

Well, don't worry; I'm about to reveal. Hope this allays some suspicion.

uh........
if your claim is true, you just totally neutralized all the usefullness of your role.

Precisely. I don't think he's the cop.

so after catching up, i'm still of the opinion that furpants_tom is mafia and needs to be lynched. infinis and actarus are both also pinging my scumdar in big ways, and i would be willing to switch my vote to either of them if it becomes necessary to ensure a lynch at deadline. i'm hoping this won't be the case however.

Well, I wouldn't have picked two of those; but I admit that I have no real reasons to trust Infinis beyond gut feeling. And I probably wouldn't trust me either; because I'm being pushy and divisive. But that doesn't mean it's a bad strategy - at the very least, maybe the mafia will leave me alone if I look like a lynch-magnet.

on the subject of waiting around twiddling our thumbs til deadline, here's how i see it. for now, discussion is flowing, thats good. but if discussion dries up or a consensus is formed on who to lynch, crying "we still have x days til deadline we should use them all!" is unnecessary stalling. i've seen too many games become lurkfests because people demand that every available day before deadline be utilized. i'd rather just reach a majority lynch when a majority consensus is realized. and thats all i have to say about that.

Well, we can't get people to cast votes, so I'd say an early lynch is unlikely. However, I do think we should use them all; even if some days are pretty slow. More information = eventual town victory.

@tom, that was a good exercise, and having everyone's opinions forced out of them like that will be a goodmine of information on later days, but withholding some bit of information and using it as a specter to coerce cooperation is terribly scummy.

No problem. Coercion doesn't work without extrinsic rewards, though, so you can lynch me now and thank me later.

[Furpants_Tom]

As to FurToms activity,
Scum lists/Town lists are just a WIFOM whirlpool.

For instance, player A "roflcopter was just bussing his partner I say we lynch both him and Infinis!"

Response: No, I thought Infinis was scummy back then and now he's acted more protown.

Yes, but we don't have any better types of information to gather; do we? If you've got any ideas, please - let's get started on your plan. Until then, let's get what we can out of it.

[Furpants_Tom]

Blizzire: 4 out of 4 complete.

Orangepenguin: 4 out of 4 complete.

luchs: 2 out of 4 complete.

Honko: 4 out of 4 complete.

Tucking Fypo: 4 out of 4 complete.

roflcopter: 4 out of 4 complete.

Actarus: 3 out of 4 complete.

Infinis: 4 out of 4 complete.

That's 6 people, by my count. So, as Infinis correctly flagged, here's my roleclaim:

I'm a townie. Deliciously vanilla, sadly unpowered.

Thanks for all the data, by the way.

[roflcopter]

I see now you're willing to post after you're accused of the possibility of being scum.

are you trying to imply that my not posting for a few days has something to do with my alignment? if so, come out and say it, so i can throw the book at you.

I stated that it seems to always play out that way, a scum goads on two townies, and by the end of the back and forthing, the town picks sides and we mislynch.

and i stated that that is a very convenient opinion to have, because it allows you to list the three most vocal people without any real reasoning and say "hey guys i bet one of them is scum, dunno which"

---

because no sensible mafiosi hammers.

you can't be serious. are you just going to give a blanket pass to whoever casts the final vote today? a sensible mafioso does whatever the hell he can to allay suspicions and win the game, including hammering when the situation calls for it. i don't know where you're getting your ideas about mafia theory but you're leaving a lot of room for scum to hide in.

I was; because I think you're probably legit. Maybe.

sorry, but your buddying will not be dislodging my vote from you. nice try though.

It's bad logic; yes. But I'm still not convinced Infinis is scum.

as far as i can tell, all you are convinced of is that we're going to end up lynching a townsperson today. your opinions on everyone seem to be safely middling. do you think the faulty logic makes infinis more likely to be scum?

Why on earth would I be sending a message to my scumbuddy in the public thread?

because you think you're likely to get lynched today is the most plausible reason. you would not have the chance to night talk with your buddy and say "hey i got cop tells off of roflcopter, kill him." this way even if you are lynched, your buddy knows who you wanted killed.

And why wouldn't I say a player is the cop?

um, if you're town, its because if you're right, you're just telling the mafia. as with fypo's cop claim, you calling somebody out as being a likely cop is just going to neutralize them if they really are the cop.

at the very least, maybe the mafia will leave me alone if I look like a lynch-magnet.

this statement benefits tom-scum far more than it benefits tom-town. you're making excuses for scummy play. and, as you so anticlimactically revealed, you claim to be a townie, so if you're really town you should not be trying to

avoid

nightkills, you should be trying to

draw

them so the power roles don't.

tom, claiming vanilla on day one when you've only got one vote is a

bad idea

. if you're town, you're narrowing down the pool of potential power roles for the scum to shoot at. and its the safest claim for a scum to make when he's not at lynch-1, because its not going to get counterclaimed.

i'm waiting for other people to realize voting for furpants_tom is where its at.

[Furpants_Tom]

are you trying to imply that my not posting for a few days has something to do with my alignment? if so, come out and say it, so i can throw the book at you.

I'll say it. You ducked a debate that was giving us some interesting info, and you've popped up now to change the subject to me personally. That's just a little dodgy.

are you just going to give a blanket pass to whoever casts the final vote today?

Yep; I wouldn't be voting for them tomorrow, even if it was you. Hammering on N1 is dumb scum play; so I wouldn't be voting for them unless they revealed themselves as particularly dumb scum.

sorry, but your buddying will not be dislodging my vote from you. nice try though.

Thanks, spotted that, actually. If it helps, that was pages ago, before you ducked out of sight - I've since named you public enemy no. 2; so it might be reasonably inferred that my opinions have changed somewhat.

as far as i can tell, all you are convinced of is that we're going to end up lynching a townsperson today. your opinions on everyone seem to be safely middling. do you think the faulty logic makes infinis more likely to be scum?

Do you read this stuff? I think Actarus is scum; I think you and orangepenguin could be scum. Middling, it ain't. Yeah, I think faulty logic makes someone more likely to be scum - because you have to reverse-engineer it, rather than actually arriving at your opinions via it.

because you think you're likely to get lynched today is the most plausible reason. you would not have the chance to night talk with your buddy and say "hey i got cop tells off of roflcopter, kill him." this way even if you are lynched, your buddy knows who you wanted killed.

OK, fair. I hadn't checked the posting rules. But now we have a cop claim on the board; typo will probably be neutralised, one way or another. Giving the mafia more targets doesn't give them more actions; so we'll have to see who they believe, which is again useful information.

this statement benefits tom-scum far more than it benefits tom-town.

The statement was what I promised, when I started collecting suspicions. I could claim cop or doc, but that would be transparently false, like Fypo's, because there is no real reason to come out of the closet as a power-role on day 1 when you don't know what other roles are in the game. So, I told the truth, because I said I would. Maybe it'll get me lynched now, but lying would get me lynched down the track, when the real cop/doc comes out. And that would be a waste at a more critical time, when there's better info for targeting.

The basic problem we disagree over is this:

I believe the town wins or loses on the information the can gather

and share

. The mafia will always know more; so withholding information as a townie hurts the town more than it does the mafia. Roleclaiming is more complex, of course; but I don't believe there is

any

advantage to the town in keeping my unverified thoughts to myself.

I'm not sure what you think; but you seem to want everyone to keep just about anything important to themselves. I fail to see how this benefits the town in any way.

I still like Actarus for the lynchee, but I think you're making a pretty good case for yourself.

[Tucking Fypo]

Unvote
Vote Actarus

*Puts money where mouth is*

Go for it, but my warning to you is that once my role is revealed, it'll make you look VERY bad.

This post stands out to me. Seems mafia like IMO. What is your role Actarus?

Right now I have a midterm today and tomorrow so I am busy ATM. I have been trying to keep up with the game as much as possible.

If Actarus isn't lynched then I will investigate him.