Mini 680: Portlandia- Game Over!

[Casey]

You've got to be kidding me.

*grumbles*

Ice, good job at bumbling around. I will never second guess myself again. All that stuff I posted against you and then I believed the damn claim. *cries!*

At least I guessed Fark right, although for the completely wrong reasons...

...well, let's keep this 0% win record going.

[X]

Ugh. KoC was simply scummier than FIS. And the setup was, IMO, balanced toward scum. No doctor, no town kills, and wacky investigation stuff just made it weird.

I'm wonder if I would have survived if I wasn't pseudo-confirmed by my Miller claim.

And how did G-Force get a Guilty on Xtoxm if he was Naive?

...well, let's keep this 0% win record going.

Me too!

[bionicchop2]

And how did G-Force get a Guilty on Xtoxm if he was Naive?

Apparently framing trumps sanities.

This game should be a strong lesson about following cops. Ice being a framer also tells us more about why he was concerned about who is investigating who.

[q21]

Well, lets just chalk up another town loss then... I have a few of those... I hates getting offed night one.

Also, well played scum.

[Haschel Cedricson]

And how did G-Force get a Guilty on Xtoxm if he was Naive?

Apparently framing trumps sanities.

This game should be a strong lesson about following cops. Ice being a framer also tells us more about why he was concerned about who is investigating who.

That is correct.

The primary motivation behind this setup was that I recently played a ton of live-action games in a row that devolved into follow-the-cop. I know that the town appeared underpowered, but I knew that the Mafia would have a vested interest in steering the cop investigations, and I wanted to see how subtle they could pull that off. I honestly thought that iceman's "Let's all investigate the miller" ploy would draw more attention; especially after his fakeclaim did NOT include an investigation on X.

So, yes, the town had less firepower, but scum had to work extra hard to stay hidden.

I highly doubt we have 2 cops, but I have seen one instance of it.

Upon joining this game, I was assured it is a Normal game, which means any cop present will be sane.

No, it doesn't. There being 2 cops is an outside chance, though it's looking likely now, 3 cops even less so. Town having 2 cops is already very powerful duo, even if there's a miller and a GF. Unless the mod makes it clear that there can be varying sanities in this game, i'm not willing to consider there's any possibility of 3 cops. Even then, I doubt it.

I felt really bad when I read these posts, and I apologize to Xtoxm for misconceptions when I recruited him into this game. Nevertheless, I think there is a difference between Normal and normal. "Normal", which is what this game was, only has to meet the definitions posted in the wiki. There's a tacit understanding that things won't get TOO crazy, like Tarhalindur's Mind Screw games, but a "Normal" game does not have to be "normal". Our expectations of what a "normal" game are made up of the current meta of setups. Games that variate from the meta may not be what players expect by default, but at the same time, players shouldn't expect that things will ALWAYS be the same. Every one of us has a different idea of what "normal" is, so in most games SOMEBODY will be surprised.

Anyhoo, there were a ton of things that surprised me about how this game turned out. I did not expect X to claim on page 1, and I did not expect all three cops to claim on Day 1. After iceman failed in his let's-all-check-the-miller plan, he managed to frame Xtoxm - and all three cops investigated Xtoxm.

The Mafia actually tried to frame RBT, which would have thrown another wrinkle into the game. I purposely made it so that the framer could only target town, but I did that because I didn't want them "framing" fark to show up as innocent. Ironically enough, they wanted to frame the one guy I didn't expect them to want to frame.

Again, I want to thank all of you for dealing with the replacement situation. I know things weren't always smooth, but I had a lot of fun modding this game, and I hope you enjoyed playing it.

[X]

The primary motivation behind this setup was that I recently played a ton of live-action games in a row that devolved into follow-the-cop.

Ah, well, RL games are different. And this game was more follow-the-cop than either of the previous ones that I played on this site.

I know things weren't always smooth, but I had a lot of fun modding this game, and I hope you enjoyed playing it.

I had fun with it. On the other hand...

Nevertheless, I think there is a difference between Normal and normal. "Normal", which is what this game was, only has to meet the definitions posted in the wiki. There's a tacit understanding that things won't get TOO crazy, like Tarhalindur's Mind Screw games, but a "Normal" game does not have to be "normal". Our expectations of what a "normal" game are made up of the current meta of setups. Games that variate from the meta may not be what players expect by default, but at the same time, players shouldn't expect that things will ALWAYS be the same. Every one of us has a different idea of what "normal" is, so in most games SOMEBODY will be surprised.

You violated my expectations for a Normal game, and I would have appreciated if I knew that it was going to be wacky in the first place. That didn't make it any less fun to play - I just feel, retrospectively, that it was a handicap.

So, yes, the town had less firepower, but scum had to work extra hard to stay hidden.

The first part of the sentence is an extreme understatement. Eliminating the Cop is what I would consider less firepower. Having 5 roles that give misleading investigation results (GF, Miller, Framer, 2 Naive Cops) is too much.

So, in short: I liked the game, but in spite of the setup. While the intention to destroy the follow-the-cop attitude is nice, I think you went overboard. Anyway, thanks muchly for my first non-Newbie Game experience!

[Casey]

The Mafia actually tried to frame RBT

Ha! Hilarious.

This game was very imbalanced, and we had a number of VTs that were uh... anti-town in their playstyle.

Oh well. A challenge is fun.

[bionicchop2]

This game was very imbalanced, and we had a number of VTs that were uh... anti-town in their playstyle.

VT is the most powerful town player - if only everybody would treat it that way.

The only lynch I really hated was the Xtoxm lynch.

[Riceballtail]

The bus really hurt, but when I knew fat had the backwards result, I knew that it was me being innocent that would immediately screw me. I also expected him to investigate me when he replaced in too.

[Farkshinsoup]

Hey, Rice, GG.

The only lynch I really hated was the Xtoxm lynch.

bio, I have to say that you did an amazing job on Day 2 - going hard at Ice and refusing to vote for Xtoxm. I felt like I had too much invested in Xtoxm's lynch at that point to back down, and there were plenty of townies who wanted to lynch him too, so I decided to go after him full bore. You almost cracked the game wide open, but Xtoxm didn't do you any favours. I wanted you gone from Day 1 because you always seemed to be sniffing around the edges, and you refused to get distracted by the noise. Unfortunately we had too many damn cops to NK, so we had to keep you alive.

Also, I also feel like the game was tipped a little too much in scum's favour. I think the framer is a really powerful role, much more so than an RB, for example, because town can figure out when they've been blocked. With the framer, you start trying to unravel sanities, and it makes for mass confusion.

[bionicchop2]

Here are my notes through the midway point of the game if anybody is interested. I can't find consistency when I make lists, which is why I didn't trust it, but surprisingly this one ended up accurate.

Portlandia (through post # 615)
=======================
KoC (repl Blitzer) (-2) (47 posts) (-4.25 rating)

61. Vote Mr.Adams OK reasons.
64. Defends Chaz (-1)
74. Seems to subtly push for a quick lynch of Adams (-1)
208. Votes Xtoxm
250 Votes Xtoxm again. Says he fits his scum meta from a previous game.
276. Good meta case on Xtoxm (+1)
508. Seems to be against confirming sanities (-1)




==============
Chaz (-1) (43 posts) (-2.33)

53. Vote Adams.Opportunistic vote on Adams paired with a question (-1)
65. Decent reponse to my vote.
198. Vote SPN. Good post. (+1)
518. will 'reluctantly' hammer. Also sides with not confirming sanities. (-1)


==============
Fark (-5.25) (48 posts) (-10.94)

18. Says we can lynch X later if he starts dropping scum tells, but not to lynch him yet.
26. Agrees with X about Q21 unvoting (originally stated by me). Brings attention to 2 lurkers (FOS on young eric). Comes across as fluff (-1)
33. Jumps on Adams for not believing the miller claim. (-.25)
45. Vote MrAdams. Says he has no evidence to think he is scum (-1)
79. Role fishing? Asking Y.C. what he means by 'further investigating'
203. Votes KoC. Slightly odd since he wants to lynch Adams and this is who Adams is voting for. Says he is his 2nd suspect. Says Xtoxm has not dropped any scum tells (see if this changes)
206 - quick response to my question
256. Best case against Xtoxm so far (+1)
281. Very odd post about not having time to read Xtoxm's other games (nobody asked him to).
285. Says his case on Xtoxm is mostly based on assumption of Adam's being town
288. Bad post. Tells new players that self-voting = scum (false). Rushes town to 'finish him off'. (-2)
291. Says Xtoxm is too experienced to get rattled so easily as town (wouldn't that mean he wouldn't get rattled as scum too??)
431 - Very aggressive tone. Can't tell if he is aggressive town.
514 - also against confirming sanities (-1)
551 - Wants to hear G-Forces results before voting, but indicates he will likely vote Xtoxm. 'We are in no hurry'. Odd statement sicne nobody was rushing (-1)
569 - says Xtoxm would be the best lynch even without investigations (then why wait until you heard G-Force's results before voting?)

==============
G-Force (repl Y.C.)(cop claim) (-1) (19 posts) (-5.26)

44 - Says he hasn't been posting because everything he is thinking has already been said. (-1)
75 - appears to be a cop breadcrub. 'evidence' and 'investigation' used.
171. Again says he hasn't posted because his thoughts have been posted by others (-1)
429 - strong indication he is legit with his cop claim. (+1)

==============
icemanE (repl TSN) (-8) (43 posts) (-18.6)

20. Restates that claiming on D1 is the best practice. (-1)
27. Again states how claiming miller on day 1 is pro-town, but throws out the statement of how we can't give X a free pass and he could be scum. (-1)
70. Misrepresents Adam's reason for voting X. Claims confusion about Adams. No vote still.
92. Fluff post. Answers an acronym question and then agrees with someone (-1)
165. Slips in on the Adam's wagon because his 'cases' are all OMGUS after being gone for a while (-1)
504. Comment about no lynches on D1 never being good seems odd - there were enough active people and votes moving to get a lynch. Seems like a way to drop a vote on Adams without any reasons (-1)
561- iceman thinks it would be a waste of time to lynch Xtoxm right now.
565- says Xtoxm is admitting to being scum. Seems to lament his vote. Votes xtoxm (-1)
592 - completely contradicts his play from the previous day. Takes the 2 guilty reports and uses them to guide his reasoning (-2)


==============
RBT (repl Mr.Avacado) (-3)(18 posts)(-16.7)

94 - First post. Game only 4 pages long, but she claims it hurts her brain. (-1)
117 - ready to drop the hammer on Adams, but hasn't commented on anything else or why she would lynch adams. (-1)
194 - Not sure why she answers for Zazier here. (-1)
344 - votes for Zazier.
417. Just pops in to say she doesn't like the idea of 2 cops in a normal. (-1)
614 - shocking good post. Doesn't want to lynch solely to confirm sanities. (+1)

==============
X (miller claim)

14. Claims miller (+1)
52. Vote adams.
160. Vote Zazier for inconsistancy

==============
Xtoxm (repl young eric)(110 posts)(-3)(-2.73)

129. vote zazier
170. Does not want Adam's lynched. Prefers Zazier or TSN (agree).
197. Wants people to place votes and speed the game up (-.5)
Is over-defending Adams in general (not sure what it means).
256. (fark post - good points against Xtoxm) (-1)
267. "If I was scum..." (-1)
286. Self-vote with lash out at others (-2) (Chaz shows examples of Xtoxm self-voting as town)(+1)
521. Volunteers for investigation (godfather or town) (+.5)

==============
Zazier (cop claim) (-1)(27 posts)(-3.7)

147 - contradicts herself on opinion of X's claim (see my post 148) (-1)
201. Decent post with reasons for being suspicious of Xtoxm. I disagree with most of her opinions and think my trouble understanding her posts had me thinking she was scummy early.

==============
Dead:
Mr. Adams - Vanilla
Q21 - cop

[Xtoxm]

I'm not going to moan anymore about the players, instead i'm going to moan about the setup...A naive cop should not be able to get a guilty because his target is framed...A naive cop gets an innocent on someone who is guilty, and he should also be getting an innocent on

someone framed to look guilty

. Framer should not be able to alter the fundamental aspect of the cop.

[Xtoxm]

Oh and gg and all that...

[Xtoxm]

I think the setup, ultimatly, was scum sided, but town could have still won. The cops were basically designed to hurt the town, and had no other power, so the town was weaker than the 3-9 which is generally considered scum-sided anyway. Miller is supposed to hurt the town, but way it went down, it helped town and gave them a confirmed townie.

[Xtoxm]

If there hadn't been two ridiculously stupid lynches on D1 and D2, on obv townies, town would have won, surely

[Farkshinsoup]

A naive cop should not be able to get a guilty because his target is framed...A naive cop gets an innocent on someone who is guilty, and he should also be getting an innocent on someone framed to look guilty.

QFT.

[afatchic]

Def saw that coming. how did no one realize Ice's results were

Nearly impossible

? He first got a guilty on a GF, which would only mean he was insane or paranoid, but then got a inno on me, which rules out paranoid. So therefore he would have had to be insane. but then, you take into consideration that if he was insane, then i was scum, which i was not. so then you have to assume i was framed, but why would a framer, frame the only claimed cop in the game? his claim had extremely large holes in it...

[afatchic]

Here are my thoughts on everyone, after my reread.

Bio-Town
X-Town Miller
Chaz-*sigh* town

RBT SCUM
FSS scum/neutral
Ice scum/neutral

KOC-Neutral

Just wanted to quote this and say... i was right for once! I def. had all three pegged as soon as i replaced in. i was just hoping the scum would try to frame me or something, so i could live another day to push the Fark/Ice cases.

[Farkshinsoup]

Haschel, do you think you could post a rundown of all of the night choices for us?

Also, that was my first time being scum, so if anyone wants to critique my play or anything, please have at it.

[afatchic]

Haschel, do you think you could post a rundown of all of the night choices for us?

Also, that was my first time being scum, so if anyone wants to critique my play or anything, please have at it.

I think you may have played off of your partner a little too much, it helped connect you too. But it still worked out for yall. can one of the scum post the night talk link? maybe that would speed up the process.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Night 1:
IcemanE frames Xtoxm
ZazieR investigates Xtoxm (Guilty)
q21 investigates Xtoxm (Guilty)
G-Force investigates Xtoxm (Guilty)
Farkshinsoup kills q21 (Dead)

Night 2:
Iceman attempts to frame RBT. When told this is not allowed, no secondary choice is submitted.
afatchic investigates RBT (Innocent)
Farkshinsoup kills G-Force (Dead)
G-Force takes forever to send in a night action, and eventually since I know he's going to die anyway I end the night.

Night 3:
afatchic investigates Knight of Cydonia (Innocent)
farkshinsoup kills afatchic (Dead)
IcemanE frames chazworthington

[icemanE]

http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/YMwyKAgNt2b

[MeMe]

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