Mini 707: Cops and Robbers Mafia (Game Over)

[mykonian]

Honestly, I was really hoping I would get investigated last night but I didn't want to ask because people would have screamed "obvscum!"

and GF! true. I didn't forget you.

[Mizzy]

Oh, and for what it's worth (which isn't much since everyone wants me dead, I think) I think fuzzy isn't scum. I think he's just not so good at being the cop.

[Mizzy]

I don't think we would have a godfather in this set-up because of the general theme. Godfather is really a mafioso role, and the cops and robbers theme goes against that. In fact, I would bet that both scum are just goons (because 3 random cops would really do more harm to the town winning than powerful scum could) but that's all set-up speculation.

[Fuzzyman]

These are the numbers I looked at when deciding to look at GC.

If I investigated Emp/Miz and GC survived,

1/6 chance of contradicting reports, where he wins it for scum
1/6 chance of identical reports, where I die Night 4 and GC wins for scum
1/6 chance of identical reports, where a cop dies Night 4 and town wins
1/6 chance of reports on different people, where town chooses BS investigation and loses
1/6 chance of reports on different people, where town chooses good investigation at first, but BS one Day 5, and loses
1/6 chance of reports on different people, where town wins

This gives scum an overall 2/3 chance of winning. Now let's look at odds if GC dies and I investigate Miz/Emp,

2/5 chance town follows my investigation and guesses correctly Day 5
2/5 chance town follows my investigation and loses Day 5
1/5 chance town lynches me today due to bio claim, Myko reclaim, something stupid, what's happening right now, etc.

Although, in retrospect, the last option was kind of inflated, I concluded that scum was better off keeping GC. I then assumed that since it was statistically expedient for them, they wouldn't. I was deeply mistaken.

[bionicchop2]

Please identify the part where you even suspect GC could be scum by his game actions.

[mykonian]

I don't think we would have a godfather in this set-up because of the general theme. Godfather is really a mafioso role, and the cops and robbers theme goes against that. In fact, I would bet that both scum are just goons (because 3 random cops would really do more harm to the town winning than powerful scum could) but that's all set-up speculation.

You are saying that you and empking are the last scum? because in your previous post you didn't suspect fuzzy. Then you have also bionic as confirmed.

Or do you think I'm mafia with Empking?

[Mizzy]

You are saying that you and empking are the last scum? because in your previous post you didn't suspect fuzzy. Then you have also bionic as confirmed.

Or do you think I'm mafia with Empking?

At this point, all I am sure about is that Emp must be scum. If I HAD to choose between Bio and you, then I would have to pick

you

because:

1) Fuzzy's last two investigations are highly suspect. If he is indeed scum, then it would make since that you would be scum with him, one of you "clearing" the other.
2) Yesterday, you went after me with a vote before you went after obvscum q21.
3) Fuzzy seemed displeased that q21 got lynched, as did you in posts 1083 and 1084.
4) You have been constantly trying to get me mislynched with no case, you friggin' hypocrite.
5) You have been attempting to throw doubt on Bionic here, too, which is completely retarded because he's as pro-town as GC was.
6) You've been talking about a GF a whole shit load, saying other people could be one if they come up town on an investigation. That makes me think that you really do know that one exists.

Wow, that's actually a whole lot more damning than I thought it would be. And just look at the end of yesterday:

Vote Count:
q21 - 4 (Fuzzyman, Mizzy, Green Crayons, bionicchop2)
Green Crayons - 1 (q21)

Not Voting: (2)
mykonian
Empking

You know what this tells me? This tells me that Fuzzy might have voted first to look townish, not thinking q21 would get hammered so fast, and Emp and myk didn't vote on the obvscum

at all

. Then, both Fuzzy and Myk act upset that the lynch happened so fast and try and cast a little doubt on Bionic.

...

This is not even considering that both Fuzzy and you, myk, have been playing like bad townies the whole game (sorry, but it's true.)

...

Well, fuck.

Bionic, what do you think?

[mykonian]

This is not even considering that both Fuzzy and you, myk, have been playing like bad townies the whole game (sorry, but it's true.)

Don't be sorry. I know I'm not the best towny around. The feelings I have on people have proved the last games quite random, so I'm more into following tells that I think good. The way you went after crywolf fitted in what I would think (and heard) scum does. You blew up a case on crywolf based on the word OMGUS (I have pointed out that it was little more, and that all was based on OMGUS), and the worst thing is, it worked. While you were the one to tell me you wouldn't blindly follow scumtells (and voting someone almost solely on OMGUS (the rest was not that good) defenitely falls under "blindly following scumtells")

That was my case, that is my case, so don't say I don't have one.

About the godfather business: During the night I assumed we had two cops: fuzzy and GC. even with a miller (that could be claimed in the first post), this seems overpowered for town. The cop is such a powerful role

that post 1084

bionic, that wasn't really needed. Even if you second guessed yourself, I already said I would vote in time. This is too short. Even if we wanted massclaim, you essentially chose for us. Why not wait a little longer?

now I´m suddenly reluctant to vote q21? Now my previous post, 1080, you also misread that one?

Today's lynch can hardly be different then q21. If GC wins it this way, he fully deserved it and I would hate myself for not lynching you earlier, but I think GC-scum unlikely. I won't vote q21 now: I want to talk first.

when bionic hammers three posts later, I react on that. I felt there was no haste. But you twist my words telling that I didn't want q21 lynched. That is a lie.

So to your damning evidence:

If I HAD to choose between Bio and you, then I would have to pick

you

because:

1) Fuzzy's last two investigations are highly suspect. If he is indeed scum, then it would make since that you would be scum with him, one of you "clearing" the other.
2) Yesterday, you went after me with a vote before you went after obvscum q21.
3) Fuzzy seemed displeased that q21 got lynched, as did you in posts 1083 and 1084.
4) You have been constantly trying to get me mislynched with no case, you friggin' hypocrite.
5) You have been attempting to throw doubt on Bionic here, too, which is completely retarded because he's as pro-town as GC was.
6) You've been talking about a GF a whole shit load, saying other people could be one if they come up town on an investigation. That makes me think that you really do know that one exists.

Wow, that's actually a whole lot more damning than I thought it would be. And just look at the end of yesterday:

Vote Count:
q21 - 4 (Fuzzyman, Mizzy, Green Crayons, bionicchop2)
Green Crayons - 1 (q21)

Not Voting: (2)
mykonian
Empking

1) I reacted on fuzzy, so if fuzzy is scum, he would have had insanity as a safe excuse. Nothing from the interaction between us points at me being scum, as I only helped explain fuzzy's "result". There is nothing that points at a scum-link there.
2) to me, he was obvious on the point GC counterclaimed. Before that, you were the one to start the wagon on cry, he finished it. Both were wrong.
3) I was displeased on the fact that bionic didn't take it calm, like I wanted to take it in post 1080. We had caugth scum, we didn't need to lynch him fast. If we wanted something to discuss, now it couldn't be done anymore. I posted that I wanted a q21 lynch in 1080, don't say I didn't want it.
4) I have a case, and I posted it more then once.
5) I have said then, that I could have expected it from Bionic. In my newby game he was also concerned with such things. I did want an explanation from him though, as it would not have been my choice.
6) I thought it likely, if we had 2 cops. That was the assumption I was acting from (BTW the title is a point in fuzzy's favor, isn't it?).

and that votecount doesn't tell intentions. I had spoken out the intention to vote q21, I only wanted to wait for people to say something. You are again trying to prove something the wrong way, this is no evidence.

you are also contradicting yourself: first you said fuzzy was likely a real cop. Now 1 point against me assumes fuzzy is scum, and that would make me scum also (and that is not true)

also, you were the one that said you thought it likely that there was no godfather, and here you attack me for "knowing" there is a godfather. I don't know a thing, I only assume things and reason from that.

Have you found another target? because this case is absolutely rubbish, it proves nothing. There is nothing from me that would confirm fuzzy, and fuzzy could never confirm me.

vote mizzy

[Mizzy]

Look at this, this is complete proof. We have someone we all agree is most likely scum and you focus on ME.

[Mizzy]

Myk, invote NOW. Only three votes are needed for a lynch and we have proved that Emp is scum because he wasn't quicklynched by scum. If I get quicklynched, we LOSE.

Vote: Emp

[bionicchop2]

I am here and not quick lynching!

I am waiting for emp to claim / react to fuzzy's investigation before doing any voting. (yes I will claim then too).

[mykonian]

Myk, invote NOW. Only three votes are needed for a lynch and we have proved that Emp is scum because he wasn't quicklynched by scum. If I get quicklynched, we LOSE.

Vote: Emp

ok, I hate it when you are right, but

unvote

. I probably let my emotions rule too much, but I can't see how town could ever come up with such a case, and call me bad town.

and I don't see the point where Emp could be quicklynched, bionic unvoted fast. You are the only vote on him now, I think. And bionic, you are right, I should have waited for claims. Anyway, you know what I'm thinking.

[Mizzy]

Unvote for the time being but since Emp could have been lynched before (I think most if not all of us were around for it) I'm not worried about that.

My point was, Myk, that I can see a scum connection between you, Emp and Fuzzy, but only two of the connections are correct and one is not. And you are seriously not helping things.

[Mizzy]

Erm,

Unvote

. Oops

I will revote once we hear from Fuzzy and Emp.

[bionicchop2]

I think Mizzy's last few post have a couple of inconsistencies. I will read them closer when I have more time later and see if I am wrong or if I can identify them. In a quick read, there seemed to be some self-contradictions.

[Empking]

Bank Patron

Mizzy: What's your case. I don't think "They didn't QL scum where scum would've obviously QLed" is very good.

I think its very likely that scum have a Godfather and I think Mizzy is the goon.

[Mizzy]

Bank Patron

Mizzy: What's your case. I don't think "They didn't QL scum where scum would've obviously QLed" is very good.

I think its very likely that scum have a Godfather and I think Mizzy is the goon.

Considering that deduction is pretty strong, unless Myk is lying then it HAS to be you and Fuzzy. It's certainly not Bio, and the ties have been strong between you, Myk and Fuzzy, especially between Myk and Fuzzy.

Why would scum have a godfather in a Cops and Robbers game, exactly?

[Empking]

Because the Godfather is given to leaders. Robbers have planners, who are their leaders, so in this gamev the godfather.

Why not Bio?

[Mizzy]

Godfathers from a flavor perspective I don't think would work well here, and I don't think we have 3 scum.

Bio has acted 100% pro-town ever since he joined the game. Everything he says reeks of towniness. What has he done that's even remotely suspect?

[bionicchop2]

Oh, and for what it's worth (which isn't much since everyone wants me dead, I think) I think fuzzy isn't scum. I think he's just not so good at being the cop.

I don't think we would have a godfather in this set-up because of the general theme. Godfather is really a mafioso role, and the cops and robbers theme goes against that. In fact, I would bet that both scum are just goons (because 3 random cops would really do more harm to the town winning than powerful scum could) but that's all set-up speculation.

As Myk points out, this basically puts your suspicion on Empking / Myk as you clear both Fuzzy and myself. I was typing something along these lines yesterday, but got a phone call, got distracted and then went to do something else.

You may be correct on your first quote, but I just want some more explanation from him before I just file it under a disagreement. The main reason I became suspicious is because those claimed investigations seem the most convenient for scum. He also did not die the first night after he claimed and Ether died instead. This means scum has let a cop live for 2 extra investigations (ironically both wasted) unless he is scum.

You are saying that you and empking are the last scum? because in your previous post you didn't suspect fuzzy. Then you have also bionic as confirmed.

Or do you think I'm mafia with Empking?

At this point, all I am sure about is that Emp must be scum. If I HAD to choose between Bio and you, then I would have to pick

you

because:

You get inconsistent here. You are stating:
1. You are sure Empking is scum
2. Mykonian is most likely partner

Fine on its own, but you drift in your reasoning:

1) Fuzzy's last two investigations are highly suspect. If he is indeed scum, then it would make since that you would be scum with him, one of you "clearing" the other.

Reason #1, you partner Mykonian with Fuzzy while you are trying to make a case for Myk/Emp scum team. This contradicts the statement you made against Fuzzy being scum at the beginning of this post. If you are "sure" Empking is scum, this argument is invalid.

2) Yesterday, you went after me with a vote before you went after obvscum q21.
3) Fuzzy seemed displeased that q21 got lynched, as did you in posts 1083 and 1084.
4) You have been constantly trying to get me mislynched with no case, you friggin' hypocrite.
5) You have been attempting to throw doubt on Bionic here, too, which is completely retarded because he's as pro-town as GC was.
6) You've been talking about a GF a whole shit load, saying other people could be one if they come up town on an investigation. That makes me think that you really do know that one exists.

The rest of these are not contradictions, but I don't agree with two of them:

#3 to me it seemed like he wanted more discussion. I would expect town to have some reaction to my quick hammer - especially before reveal. I would only expect GC to not react since he knew scum was being lynched.
#5 I see him as questioning me. While I obviously disagree with him, there is nothing scummy about scum hunting.

I take no issue with your other opinions while I may not necessarily find them as damning as you do.

And just look at the end of yesterday:

Vote Count:
q21 - 4 (Fuzzyman, Mizzy, Green Crayons, bionicchop2)
Green Crayons - 1 (q21)

Not Voting: (2)
mykonian
Empking

You know what this tells me? This tells me that Fuzzy might have voted first to look townish, not thinking q21 would get hammered so fast, and Emp and myk didn't vote on the obvscum

at all

. Then, both Fuzzy and Myk act upset that the lynch happened so fast and try and cast a little doubt on Bionic.

Here again you lean towards accusing Fuzzy and partnering Fuzzy/Myk. Not voting for scum is not a scum tell.

Myk, invote NOW. Only three votes are needed for a lynch and we have proved that Emp is scum because he wasn't quicklynched by scum. If I get quicklynched, we LOSE.

Vote: Emp

1. My vote was on empking for 2 minutes
2. Myk's vote was on you for 2 hours

Empking not getting hammered during (1) does not 'prove' anything any more than you not getting hammered during the 2 hours Myk voted you. This is a huge stretch by you to state that he could have been quick hammered. While he is probably my top suspect, this reason is not one of them.

[mykonian]

Godfathers from a flavor perspective I don't think would work well here, and I don't think we have 3 scum.

Bio has acted 100% pro-town ever since he joined the game. Everything he says reeks of towniness. What has he done that's even remotely suspect?

true, have you read the game where he was godfather? I was afraid before, as I had seen bionic's town play, that it would be very similar to his scum play, as it would be accepted if his reasons found scum, and his reasoning would seem good on town and scum. I was trying to find a tell in it, but some things (like attacking your partner from early on) can't be found here.

I agree though, if fuzzy is scum, I would think it very unlikely that bio is scum: Bio was fuzzy's guilty, until I proved it to be false.

[Empking]

Godfathers from a flavor perspective I don't think would work well here, and I don't think we have 3 scum.

Bio has acted 100% pro-town ever since he joined the game. Everything he says reeks of towniness. What has he done that's even remotely suspect?

Er, QLing.

Mizzy wih her. "He wasn' hammered in the two minutes. He must be scum." Is where my vote is going to be.

[bionicchop2]

As promised, I am a bank patron.

Will read the rest of the posts after my meeting.

[bionicchop2]

Me and Mizzy claim? Y/N

Since you have claimed, could you explain your first post today?

[bionicchop2]

Godfathers from a flavor perspective I don't think would work well here,

I would imagine if a mod wanted a godfather in a game they could figure out a way to make it work with the flavor.

and I don't think we have 3 scum.

Now this is new. How do you reconcile this with the following:

1. Your case for a Myk/Fuzzy pair
2. Your case for a Emp/Myk pair
3. Your case that scum could have QLed Emp-town when he had 1 vote on him.

This late-breaking debate between Emp / Mizzy has a heavy feel of distancing. I imagine if Fuzzy/Myk were the roles they claimed, the remaining scum would certainly need to attack each other today to have a shot at winning.

The claimed investigation by Fuzzy has derailed my thinking a little, but the most logical pairing IMO is still Emp / Mizzy