...charter wrote:How can you have no opinion on Panzer?
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Xdaamno I love you
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Artem Mafia Scum
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Panzer, if you think that lurking is the only reason I'm voting, I'd suggest you read my last post. Lurking is nothing but a one sentence blurb at the end of that post.Panzer wrote: Artem, if the only reason your voting for me is because I've been lurking you are sadly mistaken. I've been V/LA. I was visiting my girlfriend all weekend. Well, weekend plus a couple of days, Friday until Tuesday. I only posted Monday night to pickup prods I knew were coming.
I would also like to remind folks that Panzer casually dismissed my earlier arguments against Lowell. If Panzer flips scum, I think Lowell has a good chance of being a scum-buddy.Charter wrote: How can you have no opinion on Panzer?pepoel who spel bad and don't know grammer is jerks-
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Lynx The Antithesis Goon
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Xdaamno, are you gonna just not do your promised player analysis now that a convenient new wagon has formed that could save you today?
I see Charter's point that Panzer has latched on to many of the arguments of the day. I still think Xdaamno's the better lynch at the moment. He's jumped on another wagon(Panzer's now). Seems all his play is driven by a strong desire for self preservation. Not townie behavior to me.If you got it flaunt it.
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votecount
Xdaamno (5) - Lynx the Antithesis, Danchaofan, Panzerjager, Lowell, Tubby216
Panzerjager (4) - Xdaamno, Artem, Charter, Darox
Artem (1) - Afatchic
Darox (1) - Artifex
Not Voting (1) - Master Ruck
Danchaofan has been proddedLast edited by LlamaFluff on Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:09 am, edited 2 times in total.-
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tubby216 Mafia Scum
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agreed i like this postLynx The Antithesis wrote:Xdaamno, are you gonna just not do your promised player analysis now that a convenient new wagon has formed that could save you today?
I see Charter's point that Panzer has latched on to many of the arguments of the day. I still think Xdaamno's the better lynch at the moment. He's jumped on another wagon(Panzer's now). Seems all his play is driven by a strong desire for self preservation. Not townie behavior to me."I swear tubby is scum in every game I've read, even some of the ones he wasn't in. "~Vi
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Xdaamno I love you
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First and foremost, stop weasel-wording. It's anti-town and makes you look scummy to anyone paying attention.Lynx The Antithesis wrote:Xdaamno, are you gonna just not do your promised player analysis now that a convenient new wagon has formed that could save you today?
Secondly, I will probably not do a pbpa and hammer myself until I believe I will be lynched anyway. I thought I had made this clear. If I'm doing another chunk of work any time soon, it will be looking at Panzer."This should be an absolute car crash, but let's try it." - CDB
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Xdaamno I love you
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Interesting sarnath'd."This should be an absolute car crash, but let's try it." - CDB
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charter Beware of Dog
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What? That was obviously directed at Lowell.Xdaamno wrote:
...charter wrote:How can you have no opinion on Panzer?
My thoughts exactly.Artem wrote:
I would also like to remind folks that Panzer casually dismissed my earlier arguments against Lowell. If Panzer flips scum, I think Lowell has a good chance of being a scum-buddy.Charter wrote: How can you have no opinion on Panzer?
@Lynx and tubby, what are your opinions on Panzer? I'd say both of you look suspicious for your posts there. If anything, you should be suspicious of me for clearly trying to get someone else besides Xdaamo lynched right before deadline. You continue to view his actions as scummy, but it doesn't make sense that you're not getting worked up over my recent actions. If you actually think Xdaamo is scum, then you surely must think I am as well because I'm clearly trying to lynch someone besides him today.
Also, Lynx, I feel like a bunch of the reasons you give in 336 apply to Panzer as well (along with other reasons).-
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Xdaamno I love you
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Yes, it was just a silly question. When somebody says "no opinion", you seem to interpret that as literal. I believe Lowell knows who Panzer is.charter wrote:
What? That was obviously directed at Lowell.Xdaamno wrote:
...charter wrote:How can you have no opinion on Panzer?"This should be an absolute car crash, but let's try it." - CDB
"did you get ces to look disgusted by their offer? i thought that might work" - Patrick
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Wait, who Sarnath'd?
charter's the only person whos making a real case against Panzer. I have questions about some of the points you're making, but you might have something here. In any case Im interested to see how Panzer responds to them.
A question for you though:
And from what I gathered, Xdaamo threatened to self hammer to ensure a lynch.
Am I completely misreading this, or are you saying that Xda looks more town because he's willing to self hammer rather than have a no lynch? Because- I'm pretty sure there's only a no lynch in cases of ties, right? I've been thinking his self hammer promise was a nulltell because the player with the most votes gets lynched no matter what.-
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Nonsense- how is it a certainty that if Xda is scum= charter scum because youre making a case against another player in the last week before a deadline? If youd suddenly thrown this out there in the last 24 hours or so Id definitely be more suspicious than I am now. Right now I could easily go either way on you.charter wrote: You continue to view his actions as scummy, but it doesn't make sense that you're not getting worked up over my recent actions. If you actually think Xdaamo is scum, then you surely must think I am as well because I'm clearly trying to lynch someone besides him today.-
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Lynx The Antithesis Goon
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How is it weasel wording? There's still a very good chance you will be lynched as the deadline is drawing near and you are still the lead vote getter I believe. So your player analysis would still be beneficial to the town. I think you just don't want to hold any strong convictions against any players if you live to day 2. Something you've done the entire game.Xdaamno wrote:
First and foremost, stop weasel-wording. It's anti-town and makes you look scummy to anyone paying attention.Lynx The Antithesis wrote:Xdaamno, are you gonna just not do your promised player analysis now that a convenient new wagon has formed that could save you today?
Secondly, I will probably not do a pbpa and hammer myself until I believe I will be lynched anyway. I thought I had made this clear. If I'm doing another chunk of work any time soon, it will be looking at Panzer.
You already jumped on the Panzer wagon. Don't you think you should have looked at him more closely before you hopped on anyway? Opportunistic scum ready to jump on anybody to save himself before even looking at the player. Scummy? Yes.
Now I think this is scummy because now it seems you're really trying to divert attention away from Xdaamno with a post like this. I've seen that you've expressed a persistent suspicion of Panzer for a large part of the game. So the switch to Panzer wasn't to suprising considering that he's been quiet recently(due to being busy). I just assumed you wanted to act on your suspicion to hear from Panzer before the day ended. So it wasn't really shocking or suspicious to me.charter wrote: @Lynx and tubby, what are your opinions on Panzer? I'd say both of you look suspicious for your posts there. If anything, you should be suspicious of me for clearly trying to get someone else besides Xdaamo lynched right before deadline. You continue to view his actions as scummy, but it doesn't make sense that you're not getting worked up over my recent actions. If you actually think Xdaamo is scum, then you surely must think I am as well because I'm clearly trying to lynch someone besides him today.
Also, Lynx, I feel like a bunch of the reasons you give in 336 apply to Panzer as well (along with other reasons).
But the fact that you're trying to draw myself and Tubby into a case on yourself makes you suspicious. That seems like you're really trying to divert attention away from Xdaamno now. So this post was suspicious not the switch.FOS: Charter
Panzer basically went inactive after page nine. But things like Charter/Artem scumbuddies seemed like a big reach especially so early in day 1. He backed down from alot of his suspicions very easily. Besides that nothing jumped else stood out for me.If you got it flaunt it.
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This is the definition of weasel wording, by Wikipedia:Lynx The Antithesis wrote:
How is it weasel wording? There's still a very good chance you will be lynched as the deadline is drawing near and you are still the lead vote getter I believe. So your player analysis would still be beneficial to the town. I think you just don't want to hold any strong convictions against any players if you live to day 2. Something you've done the entire game.Xdaamno wrote:
First and foremost, stop weasel-wording. It's anti-town and makes you look scummy to anyone paying attention.Lynx The Antithesis wrote:Xdaamno, are you gonna just not do your promised player analysis now that a convenient new wagon has formed that could save you today?
Secondly, I will probably not do a pbpa and hammer myself until I believe I will be lynched anyway. I thought I had made this clear. If I'm doing another chunk of work any time soon, it will be looking at Panzer.
You already jumped on the Panzer wagon. Don't you think you should have looked at him more closely before you hopped on anyway? Opportunistic scum ready to jump on anybody to save himself before even looking at the player. Scummy? Yes.
Words like "conveniant" (and perhaps "save") are clearly weasel words. You completely missed the point. I was challenging the way you used terminology to try and incriminate me. You used more weasal phrases in your response: "jumped", "before even looking" and "strong convictions".Wikipedia wrote:Weasel words is an informal term for words that are ambiguous and not supported by facts.
Of course a pbpa would be helpful, but I decided it would work well with a self-hammer vote. It's not as useful at this point, and suddenly a Panzer analysis has becomemoreuseful (though not as fun as knocking down your arguments.)
This is why voting Panzer is an optimal play from myself, a town player's, perspective:
- I felt the situation was either 'Panzer or me', and I still do to an extent.
- The chance of myself being scum is zero.
- The chance of Panzer being scum is greater than zero.
Therefore, I had a greater chance of catching scum by lynching Panzer rather than lynching myself. You said "Don't you think you should have looked at him more closely before you hopped on anyway?", impling my play was not optimal at the time. Can you explain what is wrong with my logic? If so, I will admit I made a mistake."This should be an absolute car crash, but let's try it." - CDB
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Fixed - "perhaps" and "clearly" in the same clause 0_oXdaamno wrote:"Conveniant" is clearly a weasel word, perhaps along with "save".You completely missed the point. I was challenging the way you used terminology to try and incriminate me. You used more weasal phrases in your response: "jumped", "before even looking" and "strong convictions"."This should be an absolute car crash, but let's try it." - CDB
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Lynx The Antithesis Goon
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Forgive me for not knowing the wikipedia definition of "weasel words." But it seems you love to nitpick the phrasing of my sentiments rather than the actual content. You did this a little while back with the terminology. It doesn't help your defense.
You should have done the player analysis along with your Panzer argument when you applied the vote to Panzer. You had plenty of time when you were being wagoned to bring up a case on somebody else or any suspicions you had. Instead you waited for the "convenient"(weasel word forgive me) time to vote Panzer when there was more support from the town. You haven't built a case on anyone save Charter with no real backing for that vote even. I already gave my thoughts on that a little while back. Your play just does not read town to me at all.If you got it flaunt it.
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That's an utter, unforgivable strawman. ILynx wrote:Forgive me for not knowing the wikipedia definition of "weasel words." But it seems you love to nitpick the phrasing of my sentiments rather than the actual content. You did this a little while back with the terminology. It doesn't help your defense.didaddress the content, in more detail than my definition and single paragraph regarding weasal words. However, I felt my mentioned was deserved, as you were using inappropriate tactics to try and incriminate me. To propose that this rebuttal does somehow not help my defense and that I provided no other content in that post is, tbth, insulting.
It's things like this that put me off mafia: you have blatantly ignored the statements and questions I made, insteadrepeating what you have already said. You failed to show why my play regarding the Panzer vote was not optimal, even though Idirectlyasked you.
*self-deprecation here*"This should be an absolute car crash, but let's try it." - CDB
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Lynx The Antithesis Goon
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Yes I know you asked the question. I simply felt my response was sufficient. If you want me to directly say that your play was not optimal then here: Your play was not optimal. Voting someone else simply because you don't know their alignment in order to save yourself is scummy to me. I've felt that you've waited for a case to be built on another player so you could get anything to get attention away from yourself. You haven't been scum hunting yourself which bothers me and is not the best or optimal play for the town.If you got it flaunt it.
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I thought you might dodge the issue like this. These are the two reasons you gave for why my play is not optimal:Lynx The Antithesis wrote:Yes I know you asked the question. I simply felt my response was sufficient. If you want me to directly say that your play was not optimal then here: Your play was not optimal. Voting someone else simply because you don't know their alignment in order to save yourself is scummy to me. I've felt that you've waited for a case to be built on another player so you could get anything to get attention away from yourself. You haven't been scum hunting yourself which bothers me and is not the best or optimal play for the town.
- It was not optimal
- It looked scummy
I'm asking why this play is not optimal from a town's perspective, as you're otherwise using circular logic. Additionally, you seem to mistake my question as "what is not optimal about how I am playing". I asked "what is not optimal about thatparticular move".
For the gazillionth time, try again or admit you were wrong. If you want to have a sure chance of doing it right, look at my post, quote what I said and directly respond as to why my logic was faulty."This should be an absolute car crash, but let's try it." - CDB
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Lynx The Antithesis Goon
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The fact that you felt it was only you and Panzer after somebody made a case for you. We still have time. No one else came off scummy to you earlier or before? You saw obviously that Panzer's wagon grew rather quickly. You could have easily presented a candidate who you felt was scummy and a better candidate for a lynch rather than yourself. Instead you hopped on the wagon before even looking closely at Panzer. The fact that you know your own alignment and thus know that Panzer has a greater chance of being scum than yourself doesn't excuse the fact that you could've still done some scumhunting on your own rather than rely on Charter's and Artem's. I think it would have been better to wait and see if close to deadline it came down to just the two of you. Then maybe lay your vote of desperation because that's exactly what it comes off as.Xdaamno wrote:
This is why voting Panzer is an optimal play from myself, a town player's, perspective:
- I felt the situation was either 'Panzer or me', and I still do to an extent.
- The chance of myself being scum is zero.
- The chance of Panzer being scum is greater than zero.
Therefore, I had a greater chance of catching scum by lynching Panzer rather than lynching myself. You said "Don't you think you should have looked at him more closely before you hopped on anyway?", impling my play was not optimal at the time. Can you explain what is wrong with my logic? If so, I will admit I made a mistake.If you got it flaunt it.
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tubby216 Mafia Scum
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@charter
no i diddn't see the need to vote you or fos you at the time because i have seen you do more scummy stuff in a game as town so i am willing to let it slide
panzer doesn't bother me that much but i am getting annoyed at xdaamo and feel that he is the correct lynch for today"I swear tubby is scum in every game I've read, even some of the ones he wasn't in. "~Vi
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Well, of course it was a "vote of desperation". What do you think I am saying?Lynx The Antithesis wrote:
The fact that you felt it was only you and Panzer after somebody made a case for you. We still have time. No one else came off scummy to you earlier or before? You saw obviously that Panzer's wagon grew rather quickly. You could have easily presented a candidate who you felt was scummy and a better candidate for a lynch rather than yourself. Instead you hopped on the wagon before even looking closely at Panzer. The fact that you know your own alignment and thus know that Panzer has a greater chance of being scum than yourself doesn't excuse the fact that you could've still done some scumhunting on your own rather than rely on Charter's and Artem's. I think it would have been better to wait and see if close to deadline it came down to just the two of you. Then maybe lay your vote of desperation because that's exactly what it comes off as.Xdaamno wrote:
This is why voting Panzer is an optimal play from myself, a town player's, perspective:
- I felt the situation was either 'Panzer or me', and I still do to an extent.
- The chance of myself being scum is zero.
- The chance of Panzer being scum is greater than zero.
Therefore, I had a greater chance of catching scum by lynching Panzer rather than lynching myself. You said "Don't you think you should have looked at him more closely before you hopped on anyway?", impling my play was not optimal at the time. Can you explain what is wrong with my logic? If so, I will admit I made a mistake.
I "jumped" on Panzer because another player was already building a case on them, giving them a higher chance of being lynched off the bat. Otherwise, that is a decent answer
You're being uncooperative town. I have asked you many times over to justify your bizzare attacks, and you seem to think it is fine to ignore me and repeat yourself. If you want to be playing the best you can, it is vital you review your own case and make sure you have not been fooled or self-deceptive, which means throwing away "vibes" unless you can back them up.tubby216 wrote:@charter
no i diddn't see the need to vote you or fos you at the time because i have seen you do more scummy stuff in a game as town so i am willing to let it slide
panzer doesn't bother me that much but i am getting annoyed at xdaamo and feel that he is the correct lynch for today
Here's a good question for you to answer: "what makes someone more likely to annoy you if they are scum?""This should be an absolute car crash, but let's try it." - CDB
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EBWOP: Forgot I was answering Lynx halfway through. My point was that we are at a dilemma of two strategies: looking at each player and choosing carefully to save yourself, or trying to lynch another player under fire to save yourself. Both are viable town strategies, and I went with the second. It's unlikely for us to be able to determine which is optimal, making my approach reasonable."This should be an absolute car crash, but let's try it." - CDB
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tubby216 Mafia Scum
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hush,Xdaamno wrote:
You're being uncooperative town. I have asked you many times over to justify your bizzare attacks, and you seem to think it is fine to ignore me and repeat yourself. If you want to be playing the best you can, it is vital you review your own case and make sure you have not been fooled or self-deceptive, which means throwing away "vibes" unless you can back them up.tubby216 wrote:t;]@charter
no i diddn't see the need to vote you or fos you at the time because i have seen you do more scummy stuff in a game as town so i am willing to let it slide
panzer doesn't bother me that much but i am getting annoyed at xdaamo and feel that he is the correct lynch for today
Here's a good question for you to answer: "what makes someone more likely to annoy you if they are scum?"
i play the way i play
i see you attacks as argumentative and annoying. I dislike your holier than thou appraoch to tone in your posts and i feel you need to be lynched, and as far as attacks i really haven't made any other that agreeing with what lynx has said. So in closing look eslwhere to engage in a thread dominating argument for i won't be your huckleberry on that one."I swear tubby is scum in every game I've read, even some of the ones he wasn't in. "~Vi
"Whether you love him or hate him, Tubby is an excellent scumhunter."~BM
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