hitogoroshi wrote:Not a peep out of Adel regarding Corvuus.
not a peep out of me regarding the alignment of others so far this day, period.
I don't want anyone else to know where I estimate other players to be on the town-scum scale.
Ah, the classic ol' keeping-info-to-myself play.
The problem is, yesterday you were suspecting me, and I have heard some mentions of you suspecting hito. Not a hint of suspicion at OC or corvuus. So you keeping info to yourself isn't helping
at all
. And at some point, you will have to come out and say it anyway, because I am not going to buy a vote without any explanation on lylo day.
I can live with people holding information to themselves, but not when it's completely useless or even anti town (and if you are town, not sharing your opinions
Sorry, I didn't get a chance to get on the puter this weekend.
I need a little bit of time to think about Sensfan being a townie and what that means as far as my previous assumptions go. I'll post my analysis later today around lunch time.
hitogoroshi wrote:Not a peep out of Adel regarding Corvuus.
not a peep out of me regarding the alignment of others so far this day, period.
I don't want anyone else to know where I estimate other players to be on the town-scum scale.
Ah, the classic ol' keeping-info-to-myself play.
The problem is, yesterday you were suspecting me, and I have heard some mentions of you suspecting hito. Not a hint of suspicion at OC or corvuus. So you keeping info to yourself isn't helping
at all
. And at some point, you will have to come out and say it anyway, because I am not going to buy a vote without any explanation on lylo day.
I can live with people holding information to themselves, but not when it's completely useless or even anti town (and if you are town, not sharing your opinions
is
anti town right now).
fos adel
It is not anti town. The closer to an equal amount of information we get from each player, the better off we will be.
I shared my opinions yesterday, and I let the day go though to lynch before we got enough contributions from OC and hito. I am not going to let that happen again.
My opinions, obviously, have changed since yesterday. The scum will not be able to anticipate which way my opinions shall go, and I want to keep it that way. When the time is right I'll lay down my cards, but before then. Timing is important in mafia.
Now that's a dilemma. One part of me wants to say 'what gives you the right to lay down your cards last?' while another part does acknowledge that it were OC and hito who went last yesterday...
I think I can live with you waiting for OC, but don't you think you're going to get away this day without laying down your cards at all.
I've gone after Sir since two days ago and I still haven't changed and still think he is scum and I have said so.
So... apparently you don't read at all (especially when I say hito/sir scum team?) so the rest of what you say falls apart as well.
As for what you linked as "SF's case", why don't you tell me what YOU think about it. I mean, I could knock his case out of the sky quite easily but hey, this is about getting more information about you hito and your way of thinking and playing style.
Sir was always my #1 suspect (more than SF) and my vote sat on him for quite a while but Sir, by admitting the possibility of himself being wrong and such, dropped to being #2 as opposed to #1. SF didn't wish to try, help, change, or contemplate any new possibility so he got stuck with #1.
I didn't see what prevented them from being scum together, so i was ok with SF first and Sir second, even though I preferred Sir first and SF second. Mainly because Sir was scummy for real reasons while SF was scummy based on association and actions in relation to Sir. So if anything, I'm ok with SF being lynched since I did so based on association with Sir which he *refused* to revoke or make comment on from two days ago.
I find it amusing that Sir's case on SF was the 'cheating part' and when SF 'changed ' his mind (which you, hito, bring up against me which is funny since that is why Sir lynched SF and was lying on and such?) and no comment on previous parts but oh well. I was hoping Sir/SF were scumteam and would implode on each other, but I'm ok with Sir/Hito as I mentioned before.
---
Oh you also mentioned about how I said you need to read closer and such. My statement stands. You do need to read closer Hito and bring up a real case. SF's case isn't real at all.
Corvuus wrote:
I didn't see what prevented them from being scum together, so i was ok with SF first and Sir second, even though I preferred Sir first and SF second. Mainly because Sir was scummy for real reasons while
SF was scummy based on association and actions in relation to Sir.
So if anything, I'm ok with SF being lynched since I did so based on association with Sir which he *refused* to revoke or make comment on from two days ago.
I find it amusing that Sir's case on SF was the 'cheating part' and when SF 'changed ' his mind (which you, hito, bring up against me which is funny since that is why
Sir lynched SF
and was lying on and such?) and no comment on previous parts but oh well. I was hoping Sir/SF were scumteam and would implode on each other, but I'm ok with Sir/Hito as I mentioned before.
Wait a minute.
So you suspected SirD the most.
But you were okay with lynching SF because of his relation with SirD.
And the final nail in the coffin for this was when...SirD suspected SF?
And when SF was shown to be town this vindicated your belief that SirD was scum??
And now I'm the other logical scum because I defended the townie you lynched because he seemed suspicious because of his relations to someone else you think is scum????
Townies don't do that, Corvuus. You cannot lynch someone because you think they are the *least* suspicious member of a scumpair, learn they are town, and then ignore that fact, pick a different person to be in your imaginary scumpair, and continue as if nothing happened.
You cannot just say "go read" to this. Explain how you can possibly justify your logic. "He wasn't productive" isn't a legitimate excuse to lynch someone if there's someone else you strongly feel is scum. In fact, the only reason I can think of for you to lynch SF over SirD is "I knew they were both townies and it was easier to get SF lynched." And we both know what role would say that.
Sensfan wrote:
I never denied being wrong when it came to Electra or Wall-E. I didn't push for their lynch for the better part of 2 days, then just as they are guaranteed to be lynch throw out "Well, if (s)he's Town, then (s)he's just a really terrible player!".
Can you man up and do the same? This is probably LYLO, Corvuus. I see you switching to SF instead of SirD because it let you set up TODAY'S lynch as well, killing a player I have repeatedly mentioned I trust (Iamusername) and hoping you can simply coast into an easy win with whoever your scumpartner is.
YOU killed the townie yesterday. I defended him. Do you understand why SF was talking about responsibility when it was clear he was going to be lynched? You have not taken responsibility, Corvuus. Your first post of the day was saying you're "willing to bank on a SirD/Hito scumteam". If you think SirD is scum, why didn't you lynch him yesterday? (And "willing tp admit he was wrong" is a bullshit excuse.) And why do you think I'm scum, besides the fact that I suspect you?
I got town tells from SirD, SF, and Iamusername. I have said this multiple times. SF = townie. Iamusername = townie. And now, my trust in SirD is enough to make me scum?
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
Well, I'm convinced by your case on Corvuus. Not so much about why you switched to Adel - that seems to be the back and forth that has made this whole game a dangerous, annoying slog.
But the post in 1149 seems to be the question Adel wanted answered, and made the speed comments about. Your Corvuus case was, in fact, time-consuming.
I still trust SF, and I still trust Iamusername even more. Since he wanted me to take a stand-
Vote: Corvuus
this post caught my attention.
@hito: why did you accept SensFan's case against Corvuus as legitimate? Why did you accept his post as an adequate explanation for flip-flopping on Corvuus's alignment?
I SenesFan and I posts between 1151 and 1161 when SirDan posted
sirdanilot in 1161 wrote:
unvote vote SensFan
L-1. I am now getting more and more sure that we've found scum. Hito is also worth looking at tomorrow, so is Adel and probably OC.
SF, I asked you to quote a post you had made at the correct time. But you didn't, because you hadn't made such a post at the correct time. Instead you constructed a case on corvuus...
Did you have a chance to read these posts?
Why was 1151 the last post you made before the day ended?
~~~
@ Corvuus: when you cast the hammer on SensFan in post 1174, you wrote:
So... no skin off my nose. If you can't admit you were wrong and can't see how many times I said I may be wrong and EXPLICITLY given you the chance to change, then you aren't likely to grow up or change. It is a 'evolve or die' type thing and you have chosen to die and not take responsibility.
Vote SensFan
L-1 I believe.
Corvuus
Why did you think it was L-1?
Didn't you see that sirdan wrote that his vote was L-1 in 1161?
~~~
@OC it is after lunch. Where is your promised post?
The burden of proof is on the negative for a case. After all, Sens quoted Corvuus and explained his logic on why he believed those are scummy. I don't need to say "why" I agreed - the why is what Sens supplied, that's the point of a case. When you need to prove a why is if you don't agree, and think is logic is flawed. Basically, my answer is that I agree with Sens evaluation of the posts and follow his logic. Corvuus is the one that needs to prove they are false, not I to prove they are true.
I wouldn't call it "flip flopping". It was over a day that showed the change. A flip flop is when there's a page between or something. He changed his mind, that's not so wrong. Besides, aren't we saying he thought Corvuus was town based off of one thing he mentioned in an IM conversation?
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
hito, I think you need to reread pages 45-48 again.
you probably also need to reread my last post since you missed two questions:
Did you have a chance to read these posts?
Why was 1151 the last post you made before the day ended?
would you please answer them?
hito wrote: Besides, aren't we saying he thought Corvuus was town based off of one thing he mentioned in an IM conversation?
The problem I had with Sens wasn't that he changed his mind, it was that he couldn't explain when he changed his mind and why he changed his mind. (btw, I was aware of the IM quote when I started my long posts against Sens, but I was holding it in reserve, not expecting sirdan to steal my thunder).
As Sens put it
SensFan wrote:
hitogoroshi wrote:But the post in 1149 seems to be the question Adel wanted answered, and made the speed comments about. Your Corvuus case was, in fact, time-consuming.
The post in 1149 is asking be to explain why I went from "ridiculously large Town" read on Corvuus to "Corvuus is Scum"...
so he confirmed that he had a "ridiculously large Town" read on Corvuus
Yes, I've read those posts. 1107, as I said, had far too much fat for me to glean anything useful out of, but I've read pages 45-48 otherwise and posts 1151-1161. Why are you asking now? It looks like you're still trying to cast suspicion on SF even though you've killed him! Though, in all fairness, that smacks the most of a townie trying to defend their mislynch.
And 1151 was my last post because Corvuus killed SF the next day before I could say anything else. Of course, he said "L-1 I believe" so he'll say it was an accident because after all of the time he spent writing the post he couldn't spend the 30 seconds counting from the vote count on the previous page.
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
hitogoroshi wrote:Yes, I've read those posts. 1107, as I said, had far too much fat for me to glean anything useful out of, but I've read pages 45-48 otherwise and posts 1151-1161. Why are you asking now?
When comparing you and sirdan, one of you thought the case against Sens was convincing at pretty much the same time the other decided that Sens' defense was convincing.
I have a little bit of trouble understanding why hito-town would be willing to hammer Sens on one page, and on the next cite a Sens post (that didn't convince anyone else) as a reason to completely abandon the Sens wagon.
in answer to "hito: why did you accept SensFan's case against Corvuus as legitimate? Why did you accept his post as an adequate explanation for flip-flopping on Corvuus's alignment?" hit posted:
hito in 1208 wrote:The burden of proof is on the negative for a case. After all, Sens quoted Corvuus and explained his logic on why he believed those are scummy. I don't need to say "why" I agreed - the why is what Sens supplied, that's the point of a case. When you need to prove a why is if you don't agree, and think is logic is flawed. Basically, my answer is that I agree with Sens evaluation of the posts and follow his logic. Corvuus is the one that needs to prove they are false, not I to prove they are true.
no. You agreed with a case I felt to be very underwhelming, and only a page after threatening to hammer. I want to know why you though Sens's case against Corv was convincing, and why you thought it was a sufficient explanation for Sens moving from "Corv is town" to "Corv is scum" even though he totally failed to communicate
when
he moved from "Corv is town" to "Corv is scum". That your reaction was so different from everyone else's (exception: OC) stands out. Why were you so sure that Sens was town?
i thought it was L-1 since OC had unvoted and for some reason I thought OC was around and voting on the two people (Adel and SF) and not that his vote was on Sir.
I probably should have checked but at that point, I didn't really care.
Oh and Hito, SF wasn't the 'weaker' scum pair.
Sir was scummy and was #1. SF defended him for NO reason and NO subsequent answers, suggestions, defense ever made.
Now that we know SF is town, I have NO clue as to why he would do that and consistently mis-read, misinterpret and mis-play the game.
So I began to think SF, assuming intelligence, has to be scum for having such horrible play. His subsequent hand waving actions, quicklynching etc. just made me think he was scum in addition to Sir but because of SF on day 1, I was still so-so that SF 'may not be' scum.
I stated that fact SEVERAL times but SF couldn't careless, didn't read or want to scumhunt or look at Sir. Even when I told him that I didn't really think he was scum (two game days ago) but I couldn't understand why he would defend Sir who consistently misreads and misinterprets everything. Then SF did the same.
So Sir was my #1 because of real reasons from two days ago. SF was #2 due to his association and "refusal" to even consider Sir might be scum. We now know SF is town and I have no 'intelligent' answer for why a townie would so completely and utterly believe Sir to be town that he would not read, misrepresent and mispost and then go quicklynching other players for extremely weak reasons (which SF admitted himself!).
So I stated (beginning of yesterday) I wanted Sir dead first. After the wagon went after Adel or SF, i was willing to compromise since at that point SF wasn't helping or even trying. His 'dying wish' accusation against me was pointless and nonsensical.
Question for you hito: would you have hammered Adel? Yes or no?
Question: Why did you believe SF? Give your interpretation and statements of the past 2 days (or whole game) and say why you think it is true. The problem with SF's case on me... is that SF himself can't POSSIBLY believe them to be true and he was just writing it.
I mean, he would rather try to make me look bad and let himself get lynched then actually play the game, make a real case and a real post. Both Adel and Sir voted to lynch SF based on his 'crappy case/improper timing' etc. on me. So if they didn't believe SF's case (and SF didn't elaborate) then what are you agreeing with and putting forth? What logic did SF say that made sense?
Adel - I was willing to hammer for two reasons. Firstly, I misunderstood what he meant about the "if claim townie > lynch" thing. When he explained the reasoning behind that tell, I realized it didn't apply to him. Secondly, it seemed like he was dodging SirD's question. Secondly, it seemed like he was dodging the question I thought SirD had posed. However, when he cleared up the misunderstanding and answered what I thought the question was in 1149, I realized that (while I didn't agree with his reasoning in that respect) that post was quick to write and it obviously wasn't a scum avoiding the question.
As I've said before, it's a bit hard to go back in time, because SF's case has now been even more validated by Corv's current actions:
Sensfan wrote:Taking whichever of the two wagons is getting the most support, which shows he clearly doesn't care that much about who gets lynched, as long as its not him or his buddies, and as long as he can look somewhat consistent.
Sensfan wrote:Ok, so more misreps, trying to set up two lynches, claiming he is 100% sure its a dan/Sens scumpairing, throwing out a random half-ass line at the end that serves no Town purpose, and claims that I "will die." Funny, and here I thought it was only Scum that could single-handedly decide to kill someone...
We're seeing that NOW. Sens being a townie has done nothing to mitigate him suspecting SirD, apparently. If I was hunting scum, I'd go for my biggest suspicion first. Taking out Sens allows him to set up a lynch.
And look. Almost 100% sure it's a dan/sens scumpairing. On Corv's first post, he just changed it to a hito/dan pairing in a single sentence because I "said something silly". He hasn't said a word on why I'm suspicious, and why should he?
It doesn't matter who the second "scum pair" member is, since he just wants to use the SirD lynch he set up and win.
Corvuus wrote:
So I stated (beginning of yesterday) I wanted Sir dead first. After the wagon went after Adel or SF,
i was willing to compromise
since at that point SF wasn't helping or even trying. His 'dying wish' accusation against me was pointless and nonsensical.
Compromise? So what you're saying is "I didn't think he was scum, but as long as we could lynch someone instead of talking more it'd be fine"? You should have fought for a SirD wagon with all of your might, and, if he was scum, used that to build a convincing case against SF. You can't say that because he "wasn't playing the game" you lynched him. If you honestly believe you've got scum in your sights, there is no reason to ever "compromise" unless a deadline has been set.
Also, "pointless and nonsensical"? There is a point, I've alluded to it multiple times, and you're ignoring it. Responsibility isn't some empty word. You had an "almost 100% scumpair". You lynched one member, they flipped town. You cannot, cannot, cannot, simply plug me into the slot the dead townie had after half a sentence saying I'm silly and proceed as if nothing has happened. Responsibility is understanding that Sensfan flipping town has changed the game considerably. You CAN'T ignore it, and yet you are.
If you don't quote that previous paragraph and refute the point, in detail, I really have no choice but to assume you're just trying to get your planned lynch on with as little fuss as possible and I'll vote you.
Question for you hito: would you have hammered Adel? Yes or no?
No. Scum would have let SF live, and the next day nothing would have really changed. It sucks that Sens died, but (and no offense to him) he may end up doing more in death than in life.
We KNOW he was a townie now. That's a major point, and I don't think you appreciate what it does to your case, Corvuus.
Question: Why did you believe SF? Give your interpretation and statements of the past 2 days (or whole game) and say why you think it is true.
I believed him because of his style. He knows how to play a good scum, and a good scum wouldn't do some of the things he did. It comes down to this - the scum don't get as passionate about a game as townies do. I don't think it's possible to fake how SF took the game. I know that's a lacking explanation - if I could better explain my town reads I would have been talking a lot more in this game.
My semesters are delayed from normal so it's finals week now for me. If you feel like I missed a point feel free to let me know and I'll try to get to it.
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
Corvuus wrote:I didn't see what prevented them from being scum together, so i was ok with SF first and Sir second, even though I preferred Sir first and SF second.
Mainly because Sir was scummy for real reasons while SF was scummy based on association and actions in relation to Sir.
So if anything, I'm ok with SF being lynched since I did so based on association with Sir which he *refused* to revoke or make comment on from two days ago.
What. the. hell.
In that case, you should have kept your vote on me. Definitely. I'm really starting to suspect you more and more now corvuus, although I'll be honest I didn't suspect you day 2 and not that much day 3 either.
I find it amusing that Sir's case on SF was the 'cheating part' and when SF 'changed ' his mind (which you, hito, bring up against me which is funny since that is why Sir lynched SF and was lying on and such?) and no comment on previous parts but oh well. I was hoping Sir/SF were scumteam and would implode on each other, but I'm ok with Sir/Hito as I mentioned before.
Give me a case on hito
right now
or I am seriously going to plan to vote you.
Oh you also mentioned about how I said you need to read closer and such. My statement stands. You do need to read closer Hito and bring up a real case.
SF's case isn't real at all.
Corvuus
SFs case is strengthened because we know SF was town. Therefore you can't just dismiss it. I think that you should now reply to that case and defend yourself against it as if SF were still alive.
I'm not very comfortable letting adel slip by unnoticed though. I do not feel very comfortable to let her away this time again. Day 2 there were people who found omni scummy, and day 3 I was this close to letting her get lynched.
well, in no particular order and based relatively on time.
-----
Hito, you state that SF plays 'good scum' but really, SF wasn't playing as Good scum or good town. So I don't understand your logic in that you trust SF since he wasn't playing 'good'. I mean, my reason for suspecting him is because his play was crap and Sir, etc. all say that he *is* a good player.
Why would SF throw the game? quicklynch people, build no case, etc. You considered that horrible scum play and thus SF *had* to be town? Your point of view, logic, etc. makes NO sense and that is why I easily find you scummy. It is also PoE, where OC, i have town reads on, Adel, I am so-so but town leaning, so guess who is left? Sir and Hito.
-----
SF's case is NOT strengthened by himself being town. That is like saying his case is strengthened MORE if SF was doc or cop. His alignment doesn't mean crap in making his crap case suddenly real.
I mean, I could argue that Wall-E, Electra, etc. all were town and flipped town and said 'screw you SF' but hey, I didn't and it wasn't my reasoning for it. SF wasn't scummy and deserving death because of mislynching Wall-E, Electra, etc. he was scummy because he refused to state opinions, make cases or do real scumhunting other than "Why is this person still alive? Why haven't we lynched them yet".
But hey, let's play this farce for you guys.
Now if you want to make this a REAL game. Then let's include ALL of SF's posts. Not just his 'last minute' blerb which you guys seem to be doing and your accusations which don't make sense if you read the WHOLE game.
------------------------------------------
But to deal in chronological order:
Sir, I kept my vote on you. I switched my vote because I thought you would hammer Adel over SF and I would rather lynch my #2 scum choice over Adel-town. Simple isn't it? Why should I give power/choice to Hito when I asked him to kill Sir and Hito REFUSED, stated he believed SF (for crap reasons) and what would the game be in now if I hadn't done that? Adel would be dead, and I would still be going after Sir/SF. I explained why I switched my vote and what I originally thought.
-------------------
Hito: you mention that you wouldn't have hammered Adel and that scum would have let SF live. and that SF would do more in death than life. So here you state that you don't think SF played a good game (or at least imply it) which brings up WHY did you believe and trust him beforehand if this is your viewpoint. In addition, you say that SCUM would have let SF LIVE. I didn't let SF live, therefore according to your statement, I'm not scum.
So you don't really mean that statement but what other possible interpretation is there? you could say that you meant Adel instead of SF but then you specifically continue the sentence to say SF was useful in death which means you are lying in order to make yourself look better which means you are scum. I can see why you didn't talk and lurked since subconsciously you can't help but condemn yourself.
------------------------
Ok, you ask me to quote your paragraph, so here goes.
"Compromise? So what you're saying is "I didn't think he was scum, but as long as we could lynch someone instead of talking more it'd be fine"? You should have fought for a SirD wagon with all of your might, and, if he was scum, used that to build a convincing case against SF. You can't say that because he "wasn't playing the game" you lynched him. If you honestly believe you've got scum in your sights, there is no reason to ever "compromise" unless a deadline has been set."
I didn't say I didn't think he was scum. I said I thought he was scum because he was NOT playing town and his actions were exactly what you were accusing me of. I.e. "running around and lynching people" with little to no reason. So if you think that is a 'scum point' on me, then surely you see it on SF. And then chronologically it doesn't make sense since
1. You accuse me (as SF does) that I don't care who I lynch but i am just running around lynching people.
This is blatantly false since the only person I have lynched is SF. Check the votes. Did I kill Wall-E, make no cases, no statements, no actions as to why I did so? SF himself said that he had no real case or 'little to nothing' on Wall-E but he did so. If i was scum, why would I care? Why would I target Sir/SF the WHOLE game instead of lynching 'anyone who cares who' which is what Sir/SF (and checking the votes, you as well Hito) were doing.
I said NO to mindlessly lynching and people ignored me. That you accuse me NOW of mindlessly lynching is hilarious since it is what you guys did and I wasn't mindlessly lynching but trying to get rid of a anti-town/scummy player.
As for fighting for a Sir lynch with all my might, you haven't been reading this game. I've been trying to go after Sir for 2 game days now. 2 FREAKING game days.
It started with the case on Electra, the confusion with OC, the misreading and misrepresenting, etc. Then SF jumps in and says "i don't see it" even AFTER it is proven that Sir was wrong. Sir stated he is time-limited, etc. etc. and SF keeps defending Sir for no reason. (we know SF is town now so indeed NO reason).
SF, as town, should have let Sir answer on his own against the valid accusations brought up by OC and myself. It was normal, sensible and had nothing to do with "cheating incident" etc. Then the "cheating incident" happened, the case on Sir got dropped (since I was considering leaving/replacing out) and then after it was resolved, I was hanging around but trying to re-read and INSTEAD of me (as you accuse of being scum) trying to lynch Wall-E or Electra (like SF pushed the ENTiRE time for based on emotional/crap reasons) I said NO. Wait. You can't rush off like that.
SF started the wagon, Hito and Sir jumped on. Simple as that. Accusing me of 'lynching whoever i want' is so blatantly silly and a lie and that is why i said that SF couldn't POSSIBLY believe it himself and he himself said he had a 'ridiculous' town read on me. Why would I care about mislynching so much and then suddenly, I don't care anymore even when I have stated the same two people the whole time.
yeah, you guys definitely aren't reading.
-----------------------------------------------
"Also, "pointless and nonsensical"? There is a point, I've alluded to it multiple times, and you're ignoring it. Responsibility isn't some empty word. You had an "almost 100% scumpair". You lynched one member, they flipped town. You cannot, cannot, cannot, simply plug me into the slot the dead townie had after half a sentence saying I'm silly and proceed as if nothing has happened. Responsibility is understanding that Sensfan flipping town has changed the game considerably. You CAN'T ignore it, and yet you are.
If you don't quote that previous paragraph and refute the point, in detail, I really have no choice but to assume you're just trying to get your planned lynch on with as little fuss as possible and I'll vote you."
This is quite easy to refute that I don't know why you even ask. My contentions against SF was that he was running around and lynching people with little to no care, no scumhunting at all. Either SF is scum (which since you guys accuse me of this, you SHOULD have seen the case on SF for this) or he is townie who just couldn't careless about the game (which is probably the case).
If I am scum, and SF is town, then why would I go after SF? Especially when SF thinks and says I am town and SF is doing my job FOR me by making up stupid cases and voting to lynch people and not get information. If anything, scum would be singing SF's praises and following him around, which in this case, they did. Sir and Hito. Sir I have from earlier, but Hito, the case on you is simple because of your weird illogical statements of believing SF despite EVERYTHING SF has said and done and your conflicting statements regarding it that you continue to make. When I throw you in with Sir it isn't "hey, I need another victim" it is because SF as townie was leading the charge, and scum was just following and lynching townies.
So do you *really* think I am scum based on your read of the entire game? That I would unnecessarily make my own life difficult by trying to go after SF who 'everyone else thinks is town' *AND* who is doing my job "FOR ME" by lynching town.
But hey, let's assume that you believe this. That you think I am scum playing some deep insane psychological game.
The rest of this is more for Adel and OC's sake so they can see what I was really thinking (as opposed to what Sir/Hito say).
I named Sir first since I felt certain he was scum. I named SF second and tried to threaten, bully and force SF to REALIZE this in the hopes that he would stop blatantly buddying and defending Sir.
Why would I do this? Why would I name SF as 100% based on Sir's alignment?
You say because I am trying to mislynch. I say I did it because, for the past 2 game days I have been trying to get SF to STOP BUDDYING AND DEFENDING SIR if he is town.
i mean, I would assume ANY town player would read a "stop defending Sir or I will vote you/consider you scum if sir flips" as a "you are crossing the line" etc. but SF never cared. I stated this way back in day 2 and I have been trying to test, poke and get SF to make a case on Sir so I could separate the two. Instead, SF... just runs off and makes a case on Electra, OC, Wall-E, etc. and NEVER addresses Sir, what we thought about it and why I (and OC and someone else i think) hated SF for doing that.
If SF had at any time dropped his "blindness" to Sir, and made discussion, then I would have considered more. I hinted at it to SF when I said if he admits he is wrong/makes a case on Sir, then it is fine as well. Stop the blatant buddying, especially if you are town. SF instead... makes a illogical case on me that basically is more of a case on himself, asks me if I take responsibility (which I should have taken as a warning sign since SF at that point was determined to have me mislynch him so that I would be lynched as well despite his knowledge that I'm not scum) but oh well.
Everything I have done has been, to a degree, with calculation. Sir/SF were running around lynching people and ignoring me and going to continue to ignore me yesterday (game day) and they went after OC (who has been absent/lurky) but for little to no reason... again.
Continuing the ol' "lets randomly lynch and see what happens". So, whether you believe me or not, I staged/planned my explosive/angry post where I said that Sir or SF will be lynched today and I will not accept anyone else. I made as many scummy comments as I could simply because I wanted a reaction out of you 'bums' who had switched so easily from OC, to Adel.
I wanted focus of attention since i wanted to see scum flail trying to build a case on me and trying to confront me directly. I especially wanted SF to build a case on me PRECISELY because he had me as so obvious town and yet, instead of using that, scumhunting, or doing anything with it, he had ignored me the whole time. So in actuality my 'gauntlet' throwing down was, my saying to SF, 'either he make a case on Sir and drop his buddying (if he is town), or he make a case on me who he KNOWS to be town by his own admissions and continue to ignore Sir (scum option).'
Adel was worried (which i thought was a good sign of his towniness) but what did Sir, SF and Hito do? SF made his 'crap case' on me. Sir and Hito were willing to follow suite and keep following SF but his case was so nonsensical and SF didn't care to adjust, refine, or heck even try anymore so Sir dropped him and voted him. The fact that you think his case makes sense "now" after his death, yet you voted for him because of his case before his death is FAR WORSE than my hammer and mislynching him for very real reasons which, apparently, Hito and Sir agree with since they are accusing me (falsely) of the things I accused SF of.
but hey, I tried. I thought Sir/SF was it since SF refused to get it or change and I didn't see why a townie who doesn't know the alignment of anyone would blatantly 100% hold on to Sir.
Hito's post of 'blindly supporting SF' worried the heck out of me since not all 3 could be scum but I thought it may just be lack of reading or newbieness.
but oh well.
If anything speaks from the dead, then you should include Wall-E and Electra who both voted and went after Sir and they both turned up town (electra was doc even so it should carry even "More" weight.
I probably missed something so if you wish, quote it to me and we can try this whole thing again.
I just find it amusing that you say I am scum trying to 'link' lynches together, when my actions prove the exact opposite. I.e. If I am scum, why would I argue so hard for Sir and then SF, lynch SF (who if I am scum, I know is town) which would subsequently make me look really bad precisely because of all the statements and such that I have made?
Corvuus-scum simply does not make sense since my actions are not optimal scum play but rather, my attempt at optimal town play which was to separate SF and Sir and figure them out. SF refused to be separated, so he needed to die and I take 100% responsibility for that. So you saying that I am blindly linking and lynching, is amusing since by no means am I blind or random. I've been adjusting, rethinking, 'evolving' my play while Sir/Hito... you guys are amusing since you only count "SF's scum tells" or 'weak scum tells" but you ignore everything else.
If you can build up a case on me as how I went from being town (as you say yourself Sir, that I seemed town to you on previous days, and SF felt the same and you went after him for changing his mind) to being scum and why this is my optimal scum play for my actions, then go ahead.
Hito, I won't even ask you since you contradict yourself in the same posts (you say you would hammer Adel at the top, and then you say you wouldn't hammer Adel at the bottom, and you make weird statements about it that still don't make sense).
At this point I’m at a total loss. I was felt pretty confident that Sensfan was scum. Now that he’s flipped townie, I am doubting my other convictions. I really don’t have a good feeling for who is scum and who isn’t.
I had pretty much convinced myself that Coovuus must be a townie based on his third vote on Afatchick, but I’m not sure anymore. It could have been a misleading vote that didn’t get removed before it was obvious afatchick was going to get lynched. Maybe it was some kind of scum gambit? And with his vocal position against sirdanilot, he seems to me that he would have been a better nightkill choice instead of iamausername.
But what I do have is a decent idea of who is not associated with whom.
Of the four people left other then myself (Corvuus, Adel, Hitorogoshi, and Sirdanilot) we have six possible combinations.
1. Corvuus and Adel
2. Corvuus and Hitorogoshi
3. Corvuus and Sirdanilot
4. Adel and Hitorogoshi
5. Adel and Sirdanilot
6. Hitorogoshi and Sirdanilot
I would think that due to the constant barbed rhetoric between Sirdanilot and Corvuus that the two of them wouldn’t be scum together. Hitorogoshi seems to also be anti Corvuus. Adel seems to be an equal opportunity offender, but I see less rhetoric against Corvuus from him then against Sirdanilot or Hitorogoshi.
So to me the pairings look like it’s either Hitorogoshi and Sirdanilot or Corvuus and Adel. I am split between the two and not convinced yet of which pair is the scum pair.
I should have lots of free time tonight and I’m planning on reading this game from the beginning now that I only have 4 players’ posts to scrutinize. I hope this will give me a better feeling of who is scum and who is not.
hitogoroshi wrote:I got town tells from SirD, SF, and Iamusername. I have said this multiple times. SF = townie. Iamusername = townie. And now, my trust in SirD is enough to make me scum?
In my limited experience in playing mafia, it is rare that a townie feels strongly enough to say for sure that xyz is a townie and to defend them. You've done it with both SF and Iamusername by your own admission. And conveniently both have flipped townie. Usually townies are not confident enough due to lack of knowledge to take a strong stand with someone, and when they do take a stand, it’s usually saying that xyz seems scummy, not that they = townie.
I really don’t like the fact that what you’re trying to say is that you have a super keen sense of townie and scum detection, and that you just knew these two people were townies based upon that. I think it is much more likely that you are scum and KNEW that SensFan and Iamusername were townies.
sirdanilot wrote:Now that's a dilemma. One part of me wants to say 'what gives you the right to lay down your cards last?' while another part does acknowledge that it were OC and hito who went last yesterday...
I think I can live with you waiting for OC, but don't you think you're going to get away this day without laying down your cards at all.
I think that hito is scum, but I am not sure who his partner is yet.
I suspect it is OC, but I am not totally convinced yet.
OverCaffeinated wrote:So to me the pairings look like it’s either Hitorogoshi and Sirdanilot or Corvuus and Adel. I am split between the two and not convinced yet of which pair is the scum pair.
this runs perilously close to not being an opinion at all.
Again, my time is limited here, but I'll respond to a bit.
Adel: What I meant to say was "SF knows how to THINK like a good scum". He was a townie in the game(s) I did the meta on, but he's repeatedly said what a good scum would do in certain situations after the fact. (I try to meta people IC'ing in newbie games as townies, they tend to tell you exactly what they think and exactly what they think is good play.)
Corvuus, your post was way to long for me to respond to it all, but here's a couple simple misunderstandings I can clear up with a minimum of fuss:
1. You accuse me (as SF does) that I don't care who I lynch but i am just running around lynching people.
Not at all. I don't accuse you of running around lynching people. What I'm accusing you of is setting up a SirD lynch - one which you have spent "TWO FREAKING DAYS ON" - and abandoning it to go with the flow and lynch SF, confident that you could pick up where you left off the next day.
When I said you don't care, I was referring to the fact that your reasons for suspecting me were bad because you only need a SirD lynch to win. I'm not saying you've ran around lynching willy-nilly, I'm saying that you've planned it considerably, and after all you don't need a good case on the second "scum buddy" if you know the game will end after the next lynch.
Hito: you mention that you wouldn't have hammered Adel and that scum would have let SF live. and that SF would do more in death than life. So here you state that you don't think SF played a good game (or at least imply it) which brings up WHY did you believe and trust him beforehand if this is your viewpoint. In addition, you say that SCUM would have let SF LIVE. I didn't let SF live, therefore according to your statement, I'm not scum.
You missed the qualifier there - I said that HAD I LYNCHED ADEL scum would have let Sens live BY NOT NIGHTKILLING HIM. This is because there was so much hate for Sens that it would have been a relatively simple matter to lynch him the next day. Assuming 2 scum, that would be the end of the game.
Which is something I'd like to present to Adel. If you had been lynched, and flipped town - even if I had been the one to drop the hammer - who do you think would be on the gallows the next day? I find it hard to believe it'd be anyone other than Sens, especially with two scum to guide it that way.
Basically, I think the only way Adel could be scum is if Corvuus is scum.
To all - I think Sens is a good, intelligent player. Don't take that as an endorsement of me by anything he's ever said in this game.
To all, but especially Corvuus - if you want me to answer questions the next few days you'll have to make them short and easy to notice. Rest assured I will not vote while this hasty.
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
hitogoroshi wrote:
Which is something I'd like to present to Adel. If you had been lynched, and flipped town - even if I had been the one to drop the hammer - who do you think would be on the gallows the next day? I find it hard to believe it'd be anyone other than Sens, especially with two scum to guide it that way.
agreed. SensFan could be an easy lynch.
Scum have been known to shy away from hammering townies though: they don't want to be held accountable for the lynch of an innocent. I know that when I'm scum I prefer to let townies lynch each other, and I prefer not to hammer. Hammering often draws too much attention. My theory of your scum-psychology includes you shying away from hammering a townie.
I'm absolutely stumped. corvuus' huge post (which I read entirely, despite having difficulty to focus on it) made me a tad less suspicious, especially towards the end.
I'm sorry but I don't think I'm able to coherently reply to anything right now. Too much information makes my brain overload. I would really appreciate it if anyone who wants me to reply to anything would post a short post to guide me to what I should reply to.
