Mini 707: Cops and Robbers Mafia (Game Over)

[Mizzy]

...Well, that made my mind up for me.

Myk has pointed out that cry hasn't done very much that has been noticeable (other than attack Ether) and not only do I agree with that but I see cry getting right back into the same rut as she was in before. She's not scumhunting. If anything, she's acting on gut, which at this point in the game, is very anti-town in my eyes.

I mentioned before that I was neutral (with a side of suspicion) about:

Fuzzyman
Empking
crywolf20084
mykonian

Fuzzy claimed cop, which I won't second guess at this time, and mykonian claimed miller, which again, I have no reason to doubt so will accept as true, tentatively. And Emp I think is just a crappy player but not necessarily scum (I'm leaning town on him.) That leaves:

Fuzzyman

Empking

crywolf20084

mykonian

Out of the other folks, corporate is innocent if Fuzzy & myk are to be believed, and since I am accepting that for the moment:

Ether

corporate

q21

And there is the potential scumteam.

Looking at this, it makes sense that cry and Ether have been at each others' throats; distancing. And neither of them have done much that's been noteworthy which makes me think they are flying under the radar.

Thus:

Vote: crywolf20084

for a blatant OMGUS vote, a shitty case, and being a hypocrite. Along the rest of the case above. And

FoS: Ether and q21.

Let the flame wars ensue.

[Ether]

You went from being way lower on my scum list to the top. You voted me without a case, and I have a very big feeling that you're scum. You went from leading the town, all while you kept saying you were town, and then you've turned over a lurker leaf. Now you are (thankfully) back and with this BS vote on me, while most have decided that I have actively been actively scum hunting. I have this major scum vibe coming from you and I would like to see you get lynched.

This is where my vote is gonna stay until you're gone.

Pointless flourishing. You have a big feeling that I'm scum that you're not gonna back, so I'll return the favor. The town agreed yesterday that you were fit to lead them, and you kept saying you were town. Today you lurked for a bit, but anyway, your vote now sucks. The town agrees that I have been actively scumhunting and I am totally actively scumhunting you are so wrong about me die scum die. More flourishing.

Fo' sho.

It's noticeable, yeah, but not in a good way.

She's not scumhunting. If anything, she's acting on gut, which at this point in the game, is very anti-town in my eyes.

To be fair, I'm pretty much running on gut at this point myself. I figure Fuzzyman, Mykonian and Corporate are probably all town and ought to be left alone for a bit even if there's the chance they aren't. You're kinda bad but you did get that big wagon yesterday that I should probably read first, and q21's kind of in my "maybe" pile but Crywolf bugs me more anyway. That is pretty much my entire line of thought.

And neither of them have done much that's been noteworthy which makes me think they are flying under the radar.

Pffphphffphft.

[Mizzy]

Ether, you spent half the game AWOL without notice, you're playing by gut right now (which you admitted) and you voted someone without a decent case (which you also admitted.) You've done very little in this game. You can Pfft all you want, but it's still true.

[Ether]

Bullshit. I spent the other half the game producing like half its content: even after being inactive for a month, I

still

have the highest post count total of any role (adding replacements together) in this game. I have most certainly not done "very little" here. I've deteriorated almost everywhere; there's an ongoing game that I actually

did

flake from around this time, as well as the C Invitational a few months ago. And after Fuzzyman's and Mykonian's claims, I'm kind of shaken up, and it's damn lucky that I've gotten enough of my grip back to

have

"gut" to run on instead. Which isn't a bad thing anyway.

Incidentally, I saw Canary viewing the thread earlier and I would very much like to know what he's thinking.

[Mizzy]

Bullshit. I spent the other half the game producing like half its content: even after being inactive for a month, I

still

have the highest post count total of any role (adding replacements together) in this game. I have most certainly not done "very little" here. I've deteriorated almost everywhere; there's an ongoing game that I actually

did

flake from around this time, as well as the C Invitational a few months ago. And after Fuzzyman's and Mykonian's claims, I'm kind of shaken up, and it's damn lucky that I've gotten enough of my grip back to

have

"gut" to run on instead. Which isn't a bad thing anyway.

Incidentally, I saw Canary viewing the thread earlier and I would very much like to know what he's thinking.

As it was pointed out to me once, post count (i.e. activity) doesn't mean a whole lot. Quality over quantity. And I accept that you were helpful day 1, but that time has long since passed. What I'm saying is that you do need to get back on track. I don't like seeing votes from nearly pure-gut from you.

[Green Crayons]

Incidentally, I saw Canary viewing the thread earlier and I would very much like to know what he's thinking.

Some of us read the thread while at work and so therefore post when possible.



I started this reread as a focus on q21, but to be honest he hasn't said much throughout the entire game relative to all the other players. I noticed an initial back-and-forth between him and Mizzy, but I can't tell if that's artifical or genuine. I don't like his 228's comparison between Mister and myself - it looks forced and like he was trying to find some way to slip in that he thought I was town. Otherwise, his posting is nothing exceptional and he flies well beneath the radar. I still don't have a real read.

That said, it was Wolf who was once against nabbing my attention and who I ended up focusing on in my reread.

I think Ether’s trying to get complete control of the town, and I’m not about ready to just hand it over, which makes me pretty suspicious.

Ether was trying to "get complete control of the town" by asking people questions and getting them to contribute. Wolf attempting to slander active contribution and discussion that promotes active contribution from other players is scummish.

Bite me. I need my Bio class for my career. I think that it's a little bit more important than a game, but I'm caught up now am I not?

Uh, the issue that Ether is pointing out isn't that real life is keeping you away from MS, it's that real life is keeping you away just from this game, while you are still quite active in others on the site.

Never answered this discrepency as the corporate money train immediately left the station thereafter and attention was diverted away from wolf. I still find it scummy.

I don't know if I like your vote on Simpor, Ether. Truthfully, I think Ether's acting very scummy, not power-role-y.

A great way for scum to look good is to protect innocents. If wolf was scum, she would have known Simp was town. A good indicator, for me, to determine whether or not disliking a vote is genuine is when the person says "I don't like this vote because of x, y and z." Wolf says "I don't like this vote. Ether's scum or a power role!" It positions herself as looking good without any rationale behind it, and then there's the whole Ether is either scum or a power role (and I don't see why Ether's potential power role was even brought up).

Please List {Fuzzyman, Green Crayons, q21} in order of scumminess.

There. Yeah, you're trying to understand where the town feels for them, but to me it just seemed demanding, despite the 'please'.

I think it's just your way of speaking. It always seems to me pushing to mold the town into your ways of thinking.

Back-peddling. I find it hard to believe anyone could see Ether's above quote as an example of her attempt to take over and control the town.

At first he [GC note: Simp] was neutral because he had so few posts, but now with 10+ posts, and the usual expanse between the posts, I have a feeling with his supposed limited experience that he doesn't know how to play town.

Never explained why she didn't like Ether's vote on Simp, but now with two good minds (Patrick and Ether) voting the guy wolf warms up to the idea with the above nonsense.

Mish-mash of my thoughts.

You are no better than me, unless you are one of two roles. Mason, you have someone who is knowning on your side. Or Scum, then you know who you should jump onto.
There are some other things that you maybe a tracker/watcher/cop or some other information gathering role and you know something that I don't at this point of time.

Ether seems to think that this isn't a big deal, but crywolf totally made a jump here that I think is pretty big. The above quote is in reference to Ether's comment: "I'm summarizing my behavior toward you: ... getting annoyed because you had the nerve to insinuate that I was no better than you." That emphasis was crywolf's in her response, not in Ether's original post. But it should be noted that this emphasized portion wasn't Ether referencing knowing more about the game. At all. She was talking about being productive and active and otherwise helpful. So from that, crywolf suddenly thinks (as seen in the pulled quote above) that somehow Ether was flaunting a power-role status. Or a lack thereof. The whole thing just seems off since Ether was talking about involvement and crywolf started talking about who has (and has not) power roles. And who better to know if someone has a scum power role or not? It just strikes me as funny (in a weird way), and I don't see how it's not as suspicious (if not more so) as Simpor taking this thread and running with it. I'll also note that she picks up this thread even after Simpor, and on 206 comments upon her thoughts re: Ether's power-role status. Because...?

I don't know if I like your vote on Simpor, Ether. Truthfully, I think Ether's acting very scummy, not power-role-y.

The above comes from November 25th. On November 29th, crywolf does her PBP analysis of Simpor. When questioned by Patrick about her apparent heel-faced turn, her response is: "At first he was neutral because he had so few posts, but now with 10+ posts, and the usual expanse between the posts, I have a feeling with his supposed limited experience that he doesn't know how to play town." It should be noted that between her not-comfortable-with-Ether's-vote-on-Simpor stage (she thought he was only a 4.5 on November 23rd, after all) and her PBP (which notably lacked any hard points against Simpor other than a summary), Simpor only posts four times. So within the time span of four days and with four posts, she is confident to say that because of the "usual expanse between the posts" (which simple math averages one post per day during the time period where she had a change of heart) is extensive, she apparently feels that Simpor is second in line to be scum because of his apparently purposeful lack of activity. It just looks like re-positioning.

Add-on: And your last sentence, especially the words "and pointing out that I myself am not lurking is "too far."" is pretty much waving a neon sign saying: LOOK I'm acting town!!!

I chose to ignore this for a reason. Seriously, I don't like when people go spewing "Lookie at meee!! I'm tooooooown!!!!"

Are you really accusing someone for being too townie? Seriously, I think you infected Mizzy. Get yourself detoxed.


So, yeah. I find crywolf suspicious. Somehow makes a leap that Ether is somehow alluding to the fact that she does/doesn't have a power role and faults her for it. Then she faults Ether again for contributing and wanting others to contribute, classifying it as an attempt to "control the town" ...by asking them to contribute by answering questions. Then faults Ether again for being too much of a townie. It's like she has some underlying motive for attempting to heap suspicion on Ether for no good reason. I'll note at this moment in time that Simpor has also kept Ether high on his suspicion list.

And her heel faced turn re: Simpor is super weak.

I still stand by all of this.

Crywolf strikes me as town who realized deep in her heart that I was telling the truth but is too proud to admit it. I can try to defend her more later, but long story short, I'm just not feeling it.

This is the extent of defense wolf made for herself. Oh, wait. It wasn't made by her. She just sort of disappeared into the background when Emp hit the scene and he and I started going at each other's throats.

no i was not willing to hammer him. i was trying to bring attention to what i thought was a L1 situation.

i dont want to vote for him cuz i think fuzzy and cry are more scum then he is.

Do you even have a reason why you think i'm scum???

I think it's pretty silly/scummy that she's critizing someone for not laying his points out against her in an orderly fashion while simultaneously ignoring my issues with her conduct which were laid out in an orderly fashion (per my post 331).


aaaaaaaaaaaaaand I stopped at page 20. Another 15 pages of read through would just kill me.

You sound annoyed. Why?

Personal naivety and stupid assumptions on my behalf.

Alive (9/12)
crywolf20084
mykonian
Fuzzyman
Empking
q21
Mizzy
Green Crayons
corporate
Ether

Fuzz, corp and myk are out for today.

1.

I don't know if Fuzzscum would be crazy enough to do this gambit. I'm disinclined to think of him as scum because of this reason.

2.

Myk pretty much confirmed corp as town. Either myk's telling the truth (would come up guilty) --> makes Fuzz insane --> makes corp town; or Myk is lying (thus must be scum; would come up guilty) ---> makes Fuzz insane ---> makes corp town.

3.

Myk could be a scum trying to throw out an early role claim to pre-emptively throw off the suspicion wagon, but I don't really want to mess with him right now. Alternatively, Myk and Fuzz could

both

be scum with corporate being a godfather. I don't think that's a large possibility (if it ends up being true, three cheers for Fuzz for picking two scumbags two nights in a row).

Emp is super strong town candidate.

His play screams anti-scum to me. The end.

I still like Ether's play.

I'm not as sure as I have been in the past, but I'm still leaving her in the town column for now. She's been more beneficial to discussion than many other players... at least when she deigns to play these days.

That leaves crywolf, q21 and Mizzy for today.

crywolf I could go for. Mizzy I could go for. In that order. I don't know if I could see them being scum together, though.
q21 I have a shitty read on, and would appreciate other people's comments about him to better form my own opinion.

[Ether]

What I'm saying is that you do need to get back on track. I don't like seeing votes from nearly pure-gut from you.

I am back on track. I'd give high odds that my List is the exact same now as it would have been had I been more active. If you want, I could add on top of my previous "process of elimination" clause that I feel Crywolf's votes all alternate between reactive OMGUS and opportunistic bandwagoning, but it's still my gut that makes me dislike it. (shrug)

What's your own vote for, anyway? We all know how I feel about hypocrites.

crywolf I could go for. Mizzy I could go for. In that order. I don't know if I could see them being scum together, though.

I could. Mizzy's Cryvote gives me some pause, but when she originally posted that List it was four people with Fuzzyman and Mykonian safely nestled in there as well. (Credit for voting Crywolf over Empking, though. Hmm--Mizzy, what changed between those two lists?) Her view that I'm bussing Crywolf is just ridiculous.

(I say this, but I still haven't reread the Mizwagon.)

[q21]

When did you get corporate result, why didn't you non-stop attempt to get him lynched and why exactly are you claiming?

I got the result on Night 0, and I feel I gave a good attempt to get him out Day 1. I'm claiming because q21 was worried that he would kill a power role by voting Emp.

I wasn't worried about lynching a power role, I was saying that Emp played this way as a power-role. Means that as much as I may want to see him dead I know that I probably shouldn't infer his alignment from his play style... it just hurts so much.

That said I think I will believe your claim. It explains you hopping between simp and corp on day one... at least enough that I'm willing to unvote.

Unvote, Vote Mykonian

I don't like miller claims and personally I read it as a godfather trying to bale corp out. Anyone else see that?

[Ether]

Considered it. Don't find it likely.

What do you think of the me/Crywolf/Mizzy spat?

[q21]

Ether.

I would generally see your crywolf vote as cause for concern, but I kind of feel the same way about her. Her vote for you is fairly clearly OMGUS, part of her explanation for it states that people think she's scumhunting, which is patently untrue. I could go for a crywolf lynch, I suspected her before and she hasn't done anything to mitigate that. Rather the opposite really. I want at the very least to see more reactions to my vote on mykonian, though.

As for Mizzy, I find nothing particularly wrong with her method of reasoning - deciding who you think is scum by eliminating those you think are town is reasonable - but I think her conclusion is no more than a third right.
Her later claim that you've done little this game is a gross exaggeration. You hadn't done much recently, but the whole game...?

[Mizzy]

What's your own vote for, anyway? We all know how I feel about hypocrites.

Try reading my post.

[Mizzy]

(Credit for voting Crywolf over Empking, though. Hmm--Mizzy, what changed between those two lists?)

Wait, I just saw this. How can you even ask that question seriously? What major event happened between list #1 post and #2 post? Just two role claims, that's all. You really didn't read my post at all, did you? You just skimmed it.

P.S. Sorry for the double post.

[q21]

I fail to see how those claims would affect your view of Emp v CW though?

[Ether]

What he said--the claims have nothing to do with Empking. Why are you patronizing me?

Try reading my post.

Soooooo...process of elimination, distinguishing a specific target to vote through your gut views of me, q21 and Crywolf.

Yeah. Me too.

[Green Crayons]

Actually, I reverse my order. I think I might want Mizzylynch over wolflynch.

So indecisive

!


I'll think things over. Myk should be happy now, there's plenty for him to talk about.

[Ether]

I still prefer my Cryvote, but I think they're both scum, so eh. What made you find them an unlikely scumpair in 855?

[Empking]

[

I don't like miller claims and personally I read it as a godfather trying to bale corp out. Anyone else see that?

Normally I'd agree but this set-up seems like it'd have roles that relate to cops such as millers.

I haven't found Myk (at least as Myk) scummy and I believe his claim.

[mykonian]

myk is happy, and started with looking at the four persons that seem to be in the spotlight. Later today you should get a post from me about that.

[Ether]

I just typed out a nice logical paragraph detailing the natural extensions to a point of view which I myself don't agree with. Long story short:

q21, why are you voting Mykonian instead of Corporate?

[mykonian]

yes, GC, let´s see what I can do with a reread!

crywolf:

she starts very slow. This is pointed out by Ether. In post 68, she still hasn't said anything usefull, but accuses Ether of active lurking (wasn't the case, I thought).

Although post 74 could be true.

The game finally starts for crywolf with post 141: and I must say that I like it. She posts relevant things against Ether.

crywolf votes corporate in post 172. Can't blame her after the previous posts from corporate. Fourth vote on corporate.

the "Ether trying to lead the town is scummy thing" is probably a stretch. Seems more like Ethers playstyle (finally, a positive playstyle argument!)

Nice PBPA's on the people that should have been looked at. (why does ether question?).

I feel post 305 is spot on. Ether seems a little concerned with her protown image.

post 323 is close to bandwagoning on simpor. Town could do it, but we know now what simpor was.

in post 509 we finally hear that crywolf will be active again.

almost 100 posts further crywolf posts... a new scum list

around she defends GC good. let's buddy up to the most protown player.

why is crywolf the only one that thinks it weird that fuzzy kept a guilty for himself? post 832.

And the conclusion to this story, in post 849: votes between ether and crywolf. Ether doesn't bother to post a case, crywolf reacts on that. While crywolfs reasons (apart from the vote on her) can only come from Ethers early play, Ethers reasons could only be lurking: so who is the person that makes the OMGUS vote here? Crywolf, while all day, ether was high on her scumlist. I'm on crywolf's side here. Ether makes no sense, she just voted to be earlier then crywolf (mizzy, why are you so eager to scream OMGUS here?)

Ether:

Starts towny by scumhunting (called so by mizzy)

begins early with getting crywolf active.

post 75: why say you are town?

post 77: more prodding crywolf (5-6th post about it)

post 89:

Dislike q21's vote, regardless of Mizzy's alignment.

not explained...

more asking for activity.

No. I'm not thrilled with Mizzy, but I completely believe that her job is serious business. And she

still

manages to be more active than half the game. I think the focus should move to someone else for today.

So how did your read go, Corporate?

distancing? but still getting your buddy out of the firing line? and more asking for activity.

post 128: votes crywolf (lurking I guess from the post)

post 131: asking for prods

146 finally confirms that 128 is a lurker vote.

then we get questions about corporates other account.

in this gap till 262, I think I have seen 4 prods/lurker-attacks

292: insinuating she is town.

Crywolf strikes me as town who realized deep in her heart that I was telling the truth but is too proud to admit it. I can try to defend her more later, but long story short, I'm just not feeling it.

Like I said, the power role sentiment seems vaguely familiar but I'm not sure where from. But it wasn't in question form, and no one could possibly expect me to react to it in a way that betrayed my role at all. Simpor's question could have been harmful, because it both encouraged Crywolf to look, and could have said something about

her

role.

The bit about there being more going on in her subconscious than she's willing to say also explains the change of heart on Simpor. Meh.

Technically

that

wasn't a "too townie" fallacy, though I'm sure I've myself up for some of those as well with my brilliant blazing towniness. (The fallacy wouldn't be "Ether's calling herself town," but instead "Ether is scumhunting and inhibiting lurking and actively participating in the discussion and she is totally awesome and it's fairly obvious that she's trying to lull us into a false sense of security.")

And Simpor's most recent posts are super weak. I don't blame her for her vote at all.



First off, I don't think Crywolf was actually fishing; second, this doesn't cover why it's okay for him to ask. (But you agree later that the fact he asked was scummy, so fair enough.)

cut the last part out of this: again insinuating she is town, and a surprising stance on crywolf, seen the latest events. A town gut read.

This day has now officially gone on waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long.

is not a scummy statement on the bottom of page 21.

Dislike Mykonian, and Canary's Simpvote still kinda rubs me the wrong way. Not really averse to the Fuzzwagon, either, though; I'm not sure where I stand on much right now. Meh.

cut again something out of this, this part interested me. This was short after day 2 started. Why not give reasons why you dislike me?

this results in a vote on me in post 570: no reasons given.

the unvote in post 613 is nice, after two people hopped on the bandwagon, for not liking me (mizzy), and getting ether back in the game (GC). Wait, sorry, mizzy didn't vote me, only didn't like my posts.

then we have "point K" of my case: Ether voted me for it (she says that in post 803), because it would be a lie. I tried to show a pattern in fuzzy's behaviour, and she picks one point out as a stretch. I must say, I have probably been wrong about fuzzy.

and now we get to the real mess. The vote from ether on crywolf. No case, nothing. Crywolf reacts on that (she had ether longer on her scumlist) and sees this as a good reason to vote ether. Like I said with crywolf, who OMGUS-votes here? Ether, that actually had a town-gut-read on crywolf before, or crywolf that had reasons all the time to go after crywolf. I think I have heard the term: preemptive OMGUS before, and I think it applies here.

funny thing is how eager mizzy is to scream OMGUS... at crywolf. That can't be a good move.

conclusion: Ether has done a good job early in the game to look active-protown by going after lurkers and making them do something. But, as you have pointed out with that meta about me, this is not a hard thing for scum to do. Plus the view statement that insinuate you are town, I think you are too concerned with it.

Most of the time I had problems to point out where Ether was really standing: because she attacked a lot of people. But that last crywolf vote really makes no sense, and makes her scum nr.1 to me.



I'm lacking concentration now, I'm going to try to do the same for q21 and mizzy tomorrow. That's also why I wait with my Ether-vote. Maybe I find something about the other two tomorrow.

[Ether]

I don't see why Mykonian has ranked me above Crywolf; the only point where he posts our actions in contrast is the OMGUS thing. I had a town gut read on Crywolf

a month ago

, when I didn't think she could be scum with Simpor. Circumstances changed. You could try to paint it as preemptive OMGUS, but it doesn't seem fair to restrict me from attacking someone the instant it lays suspicion on me. And I'm under the impression that Empking would have been at the top of her List at that point anyway.

Crywolf's PBPs were not "nice." I "questioned" them because they didn't provide any new content, as I said at the time. I could have filtered Corporate and Simpor for that. However, at the time, I pointed it out as polite advice. A towngoer might theoretically derive value out of an exercise like that, but people reading the summaries wouldn't.

why is crywolf the only one that thinks it weird that fuzzy kept a guilty for himself? post 832.

It's not weird. She was just trying to throw doubt onto him. I'll justify why, unless you'd like Fuzzyman to do so instead.

I haven't the slightest idea why I'm still being attacked for calling myself town. It's null. Seriously. (Actually, it's a sign of me having fun with a game. I don't find being scum fun. Ether calling herself town is townish.)

rather than deconstruct it, let's apply a bit of meta. Filter my posts in Pick Your Poison 3. These two posts in particular should be good examples of my rampant egotism.

Filter Patrick's posts for more even more of that sentiment. (We've been in like 8 games together, plus he's modded 3 games I played in, two of them to endgame, plus we talk like every day. He's qualified to meta me.)

I don't see why you keep drawing attention to me prodding people. I'm not even sure if you're trying to paint it as good or bad. I mean, you make it

sound

bad, but prods are inherently

good

, so I'm sure you understand why I'm confused here. (And even when I said that you sometimes bumped the thread as scum, I also said lightly that I personally didn't possess the capacity.)

Most of my questioning was for people on my peripheral; I found Simpor and Tisp obvscum, and I think I was fairly clear on that matter. (On that note, I started attacking you because you replaced Tisp.)

I was mostly skipping around here; I probably missed a bit. Feel free to draw attention to that bit.

[mykonian]

I tried to find what made you look towny, and if that really makes you town. An important thing seems to be the prodding. However, scum could do that easily. You have questioned a lot of people, but in the end, your main attention seemed to go to people that (active)-lurkers. Again, not really wrong, their play wasn't good, but that doesn't make you obv-town. But the activity things, and your posts seem to tell us you are. Why?

and the preempive omgus, it is just a word. While your play against crywolf is weird (no reasons, nothing, the only thing I can come up with, is a lurker-vote), crywolf's vote is natural. There was already suspicion, and your vote on crywolf makes absolutely no sense. Mizzy's omgus call on crywolf is simply not deserved.

and yes, the last events color my views while rereading. Crywolf hasn't been very active (only one real stance I can find, against you), while you have been prodding and questioning people.

and I'm happy that fuzzy didn't claim right away, in this case it helps us a lot, and if he looked at the game, thought it unlikely that he would be nightkilled, then it is completely justified. Doesn't mean that the question doesn't need to be asked.

and since this is my first game with everyone here , I don't do anything with meta. Via other ways (MD and so) I heard that I can't expect brilliant play from him. Lucky for us, he tries.

[Ether]

I call myself town because I find it fun to do so. I like having fun.

I

am

town because I was the most active player in the game on Day 1, and am retaking that position again now that I've recovered. I'm town because I obviously care about this game. I don't invest this much as scum--you can say what you want about how

you

won't use meta, but it's an effective tool. Patrick and I have already done the work for you, and you're playing suboptimally if you're going to willfully toss that aside.

Hell, you said yourself in 567 that I can "prove [myself] to be town by hunting scum," and I've very much been doing that. (That was, incidentally, the reason for my specific timing on voting you. Partially because it was evidence that you hadn't been following the game, on top of my previous Tisphate, mostly because it was funny to vote you at that exact moment.) There was a lull in Day 2, but I'm back now, and I assure you my alignment didn't change overnight.

I don't understand what you're saying with me versus Crywolf. You're talking about today, right? With you and Fuzzyman as town, there was no vote I could have placed that

would

have been a natural follow up, and voting was still the most effective statement I could make about my current beliefs. Bandwagoning is one thing, but I don't see why it would have been better play to foreshadow a future vote for someone who wasn't actually under much suspicion at the time, or scummy that I didn't.

(Also, I would say that Crywolf's vote

was

OMGUS, and in a bad way, but I hate having OMGUS debates because I use a nonstandard definition for it and keep having to throw disclaimers in when I talk about it on most other people's terms. I assume you're insinuating that I'm scum with Mizzy, since that's the only way that worrying about her interpretations makes sense.)

[Mizzy]

I call myself town because I find it fun to do so. I like having fun.

I

am

town because I was the most active player in the game on Day 1, and am retaking that position again now that I've recovered. I'm town because I obviously care about this game.

No, if you were town then you would be town because your role PM said so. And if you care oh-so-much about this game, why did you disappear? You were on your last prod when you came back. That does not tell me you care about the game; it tells me the opposite, in fact.

[Ether]

My role PM does in fact refer to me as town, but I'm trying to give useful answers here.

I disappeared because I fell into a spiral after Simpor's alignment came up--I find it difficult to post when I don't know where I stand on anything, and even more difficult to catch up once I've initially fallen behind. After doing the latter, I hated myself too much to resume caring again. That's a chronic flaw in my personality--I've already cited other games that I'd also slipped in from around that time. After the prod, I pulled myself together, but I think that's the first time I've ever done that anywhere to this magnitude.

That is how much I love you guys.

What I'm saying is that you do need to get back on track.

Make up your mind. Now that I'm thinking straight again, you're instead trying to take a "No you

were

gone that is permanently unforgiveable" position.

And you still haven't answered the question about your stance on Empking.