Mini 730 - Hard Nights in the City - OVER!

[Nameless]

Voting for somebody who isn't your must suspected player, but has a bandwagon and you believe to be nonetheless scummy ... I'm not seeing that

as

suspicious as some people are making penguin thus out to be. Townies do that too, it's called compromise. Also, a vote can be known to be for pressure and still serious if somebody is willing to lynch for unanswered questions. Depends how you define "pressure vote", eh.

@ Atronach, I'd say Don overestimates the significance of his earlier exchange (edit: actually, he seems to do that with IP's vote too, not commenting much on other players or exchanges even though he has contributed reasonably. Hmm.) leading to the lylo comment. Planning lynches is bad, but planning your own lynch is stupid and really a nulltell. Your accusations of desperation seem to be reaching.

@ canadianbovine re: "Aren't scum usually on the first bandwagon?" Idiot scum might jump at the first bandwagon, yes, but you could also interpret your comment as slightly cleverer scum trying to show yourself as townie by not doing so. And asking questions is digging yourself into a hole now? Don't like that post. General statements possibly implying alignments without specifics or arguments. (Nb. I might be reading into one post too much here.)

@ insanepenguin02 re: #112, did you forget which game we're playing? Holding back analysis on who is scum (not to trust) because you don't trust people? WTF, I call BS. And re: #114 Lol, obvWIFOM and poor attempt at deflecting suspicion. What I said earlier defending you? Consider that retracted! (Currently undecided on whether to vote just on the basis of those two posts, will give you one post to explain these comments.)

@ Megatheory, re various parts of #120: when first reading the initial exchange between you and Don I got the feeling that you were being more aggressive in arguing, while Don was more responsive to everything you said. That, and a few specific things you said I disagreed with, was why I suspected you of deliberately exaggerating the argument. Since that point Don turned more aggressive towards you (and now IP) though.
Oh come on, my first three questions in #34 were obviously rhetorical.
I'd call Don more at fault for the initial exchange because Don was the one to self vote. So, yeah.

[geraintm]

This is the second time somebody has taken that statement seriously (or am I just imagining the "=P"?) and

that

starts to worry me.

i actually deliberately put in such an obvious line into my post 15, the "you think it will hurt us that much? " just for shits and giggles really. i thought it was such an over the top attempt to appear clueless newbie town it was funny, it wasn't meant to generate a page of discussion about it.

This is a very poor retroactive excuse for something that IMHO shouldn't need one.

FoS: Geraintm

sorry, i didnt realise the =P meant it was a joke
my post was on day one, still in the pregame stage, i thought some silly posting was ok then. problem was 5 pages of posts when by before i could realyl explain myself.
it is a dead issue though

Q: who was speculating on don/maga pairing, i missed that.
and frankly, whoever it was should stop, it is almost impossible to succesffuly hunt scum day one but to get at pairings just tends to set up the town for bad lynches day two.

[Danchaofan]

it's not megatheory, it's megapost... unexpectedly unable to use the computer since my last post so I just caught up reading and allowing thing to si

[Nameless]

Hey geraintm, how about you read the thread yourself instead of asking others to look back for you. Then you'll be able to make serious contributions instead of generic townie strategy that's been mentioned before and you're probably only saying to try and appear townie yourself!

[Danchaofan]

SoC needs quote tags. Other than that good stuff. (summaries are helpful). I think I've clarified that the crap logic in my first vote was for RVS purposes. I think I also misinterpreted what gera said which might have lead further misinterpretation of what I said.

Side note: I have a feeling I'm being suckered into believing female's innocence. The avatars aren't helping >.<

if i were to assign each player a number and then roll a die to cast my vote "randomly", i would have just as much chance of landing on myself as any of you. to insinuate that a self vote in the rvs is any more or less informational or beneficial to town than any other random vote in the same stage of the game

before

ensuing discussion reveals any relevant information regarding players alignments is bad logic.

I don't think RVS should be completely random. But, let's NOT get into a big discussion.

[geraintm]

Hey geraintm, how about you read the thread yourself instead of asking others to look back for you. Then you'll be able to make serious contributions instead of generic townie strategy that's been mentioned before and you're probably only saying to try and appear townie yourself!

i've looked
post 84 had the two of them down as the most scummy in a list, but didn't say they were a pair
post 96 by don is where he makes mention of them being treated as a scum pairing
i just don't know why he said that though.

[ChaosOmega]

CO - Anti Town =/= scum

While this may be technically true, in the sense that not everyone who performs anti-town actions is scum, there's really not much else for me to go on. Unless you have better suggestions on how to find scum, I'm going to stick with this method.

unvote, vote: insanepenguin02

Your vote with no reasoning presented was EXTREMELY suspicious!

Why? It was on the start of page 2, we were still in the random voting stage. Would my vote have been less suspicious if I would have tacked on a hokey bullshit random reason?

And then why did you point out Juls not voting yet?

...are you seriously questioning me pointing out suspicious behavior in others? You know what game we're playing, right?

In your last post (your reasoning behind Mega's vote), you say that there really isn't much to go on. So why did you vote instead of FOS?

You voted for canadianbovine on page 2. I'm assuming since you don't want to look like a hypocrite, that you had a lot to go on when you made that vote. So I'm curious as to your well-founded case on him after only 40 posts.

Oh, and making a ranking system to place a vote on the player you ranked as 3rd scummiest looks extremely suspicious, I don't care how you justify it.

[insanepenguin02]

Wow - I have played in much more fun games than here! My bad for trying to get discussion going through asking questions, offering some analysis, and trying to get opinions out there. IT DEFINITELY GOT OPINIONS OUT THERE! So from now on it is a MAFIA

LAW

that I vote for who I think is the scummiest right off the bat and not offer any other explanations than that?!

Here you go:

Unvote

-

Vote: Chaos

with an

FOS: don and mega

Chaos has been the last one to jump my bandwagon and I saw him as being slightly scummy earlier, hence my vote for him

being the scummiest player in my opinion

at this point.

I have been known for playing the game a little different than what all of the "mafia pros" play it as I don't really care about what I

should

do. Look at my past games for evidence to that. But I would have to say that in this game in particular, you guys have completely over-reacted. How?

1) I made my vote for my own reasons, in the long-term benefit of the town, against mega. He never responded until just now so I didn't get the info that I wanted out of him and then that gave everyone time to pick that vote apart.
2) Also, at the time of my vote (writing my long post), mega was at 2 votes (I thought mine would be 3rd but during my post, somebody else also voted mega, putting him to 4 instead). But still, that is a developing wagon and he was still VERY far from being lynched (half-way). IMO, that is not very scary, especially at the start of the game.
3) To say that I have a "well-founded case" is COMPLETELY over-reaction! I gave some very initial analysis and asked questions to let everyone find more out about everyone else. To say that I had hard evidence and that all of my "rankings" and thoughts were in concrete is absurd.

But I digress...

[don_johnson]

Wow - I have played in much more fun games than here!

really? why is this not fun?

[ChaosOmega]

So from now on it is a MAFIA

LAW

that I vote for who I think is the scummiest right off the bat and not offer any other explanations than that?!

What benefits do you see from not voting who you see as the scummiest player?

To say that I have a "well-founded case" is COMPLETELY over-reaction! I gave some very initial analysis and asked questions to let everyone find more out about everyone else. To say that I had hard evidence and that all of my "rankings" and thoughts were in concrete is absurd.

My thoughts exactly. You asked why I voted without much to go on. Well, you did the same thing. Hell, everyone does at the beginning. For you to find me suspicious because of that is ridiculous.

But I would have to say that in this game in particular, you guys have completely over-reacted.

Disagree. Regardless of your reasoning, ranking people by scumminess and then voting for somebody that you ranked at 3rd as soon as you post that analysis looks off. I would have jumped on it as well when you posted it if I would have had internet access.

[Nameless]

@ insanepenguin02 re: #112, did you forget which game we're playing? Holding back analysis on who is scum (not to trust) because you don't trust people? WTF, I call BS. And re: #114 Lol, obvWIFOM and poor attempt at deflecting suspicion. What I said earlier defending you? Consider that retracted! (Currently undecided on whether to vote just on the basis of those two posts, will give you one post to explain these comments.)

Unvote; Juls - Vote: insanepenguin02

Although, I'm not liking the way Chaos exaggerates the scuminess of what I'd consider the least significant point against IP. (And Chaos, the obvious difference between your first vote and IP's first vote is that IP's was clearly a joke vote whereas you implied you had reasons for yours that you didn't give.)

[Porkens]

vote: insanguin

I think it's time for a claim, pengy.

[SpyreX]

The when does a theory become mega votecount:

Gerantim(1): Danchaofan
Don_johnson (1): Juls
ChaosOmega (2): canadianbovine, insanepenguin02

Insanepenguin02 (6): Plum, Megathory, Don_johnson, ChaosOmega, Nameless, Porkens.

With 12 left it is 7 to lynch.

Insanepenguin02 is at L-1

[Nameless]

vote: insanguin

I think it's time for a claim, pengy.

unvote

[Plum]

Wow - I have played in much more fun games than here! My bad for trying to get discussion going through asking questions, offering some analysis, and trying to get opinions out there. IT DEFINITELY GOT OPINIONS OUT THERE! So from now on it is a MAFIA

LAW

that I vote for who I think is the scummiest right off the bat and not offer any other explanations than that?!

Here you go:

Unvote

-

Vote: Chaos

with an

FOS: don and mega

Chaos has been the last one to jump my bandwagon and I saw him as being slightly scummy earlier, hence my vote for him

being the scummiest player in my opinion

at this point.

I have been known for playing the game a little different than what all of the "mafia pros" play it as I don't really care about what I

should

do. Look at my past games for evidence to that. But I would have to say that in this game in particular, you guys have completely over-reacted. How?

Appeal to emotion, appeal to meta (an illegitimate usage thereof, to clarify); generally bad.

Ah, Penguin's at L-1??? I've seen town Porkens do stuff like this, but I don't love it either.

FOS Porkens

perhaps?

Premature hammerer (before claim and/or without a nice thought-out reason for hammering now) will be automatically assumed to be scum in my eyes. Ah, nevermind, on preview Nameless has unvoted.

[Nameless]

And to elaborate on that now I'm not worried that someone will quickhammer while we still have like a week left of D1: Porkens has contributed very little thus far, except for maybe one post that was only answering questions directly posted by IP to him. At that point he even promised "moar later", but 48 hours later jumps out of nowhere to place someone at L-1 having personally said nothing against them thus far.

I do not like this.

Vote: Porkens

(And since somebody will probably ask me this, the reason I put IP at L-2 myself was that I had promised to vote IP if he didn't respond to my concerns, which he then ignored. However, right now I'm pretty suspicious of Chaos as well, for virtually the same reasons as Porkens - Aside from one post belatedly explaining a vote against Mega, he's done nothing but exaggerate the scuminess of specific actions by IP. I don't have much free time left now, I'll need to do a reread later today.)

[don_johnson]

i have no problem with a claim. penguin has done nothing to alleviate suspicion. his explanation of a "pressure vote" seems contrived.

[Porkens]

*sigh*, this always seems to happen day one.

I don't want to/will not regurgitate what you all have already said. I've decided that yes, penguin should claim or die, based on the cases

you people

have presented.

And christ, I hope someone does quckhammer. that'll certainly give some direction to day two.

[canadianbovine]

@ canadianbovine re: "Aren't scum usually on the first bandwagon?" Idiot scum might jump at the first bandwagon, yes, but you could also interpret your comment as slightly cleverer scum trying to show yourself as townie by not doing so. And asking questions is digging yourself into a hole now? Don't like that post. General statements possibly implying alignments without specifics or arguments. (Nb. I might be reading into one post too much here.)

This is my first non newbie game, and scum has always been on the first bandwagon. so i guess i could agree newbie scum/idiot scum would jump on to the first bandwagon.

What I meant about Penguin digging himself a hole is how he decided to ask 3-5 questions to everyone, and he's going to have to post more and more because now he has discussion with everyone. And the more he posts, the more WIFOM and ironic he gets.

[canadianbovine]

Plum in the same post your FOS on Megatheory turned into a Vote, what sparked this?

After all that analysis and having found multiple players looking at least moderately scummy, I didn't think a vote would be at all out of place, and would, in fact, be a good idea on my part. I FOSed Mega in the course of my stream-of-conciousness post and having concluded said post, found him the scummiest overall and thought my vote would be a good place. You'll notice that I didn't preview my post and edit it afterwards (note the lovely broken quote tags etc.); I suppose if I'd done that I might have removed to FOS and just voted Mega at the end. Just didn't happen that way, though.

Ahh i see. it was just strange cause it seemed like you were contradicting yourself, but i understand that you might of left it, and gone back, rushed to finish it up at the end, hence not previewing.

[canadianbovine]

and btw mod: i took my vote off chaos in my reply to IP.

[Megatheory]

Juls

, maybe you missed it, but you didn't answer this question:
It's strange that you would finger insanepenguin for the same thing you were accused of. What sets you apart from him in the early game?

Side note: I have a feeling I'm being suckered into believing female's innocence. The avatars aren't helping >.<

I've done that before. Who in particular are you talking about and why did you bring it up?

I'm not sure what to make of penguin's reaction to his bandwagon. He is responding mostly to the accusations regarding voting for the player he ranked thrid scummiest, but I had other reasons for voting him and some other people did as well. I'd like to see him respond to those other reasons in more detail.

I will say that his wagon seems to have grown very quickly.

*sigh*, this always seems to happen day one.

I don't want to/will not regurgitate what you all have already said. I've decided that yes, penguin should claim or die, based on the cases

you people

have presented.

And christ, I hope someone does quckhammer. that'll certainly give some direction to day two.

I understand if you don't want to just repeat what has already been said, but it would help a lot if you would highlight whatever reasons stand out the most for you.

[Plum]

I've seen you act somewhat this way with early-ish Day 1 bandwagons, Porkens, but I want to adhere to my general rule of making people explain votes, especially important votes (e.g., an L-1 vote). For now I'm just going to nag you. Surely you have some opinions on some facets of the case on IP? Something that seems like a weaker tell than the others, or something which wasn't emphasized enough, etc.? I just think that overall more info from you on this vote, even if it's just a summary, has a fair chance of being useful for the town later.

Thanks

.

Nag nag nag nudge nu?

[Juls]

@Megatheory - I realised what I was saying at the time of my post (that we both were kinda in the same boat). I knew I had not posted much in the way of content but I felt the difference was the post I was writing. I also stated I was getting a bad vibe from him. Bad vibes aren't something I can put my finger on...something just wasn't sitting right with me.

Another thing I noticed different about penguin was he seemed to be "chatting" whereas at least I was trying to work my way into the conversation, I just really didn't have much to add to that particular discussion.

And I did look over this question on my first read through, sorry.

Also, I am really not liking Porkens L-1 vote. Even though I don't have warm and fuzzies about ip, I think Porkens bandwagon vote with a claim request so early is suspicious.

[Atronach]

*sigh*, this always seems to happen day one.

I don't want to/will not regurgitate what you all have already said. I've decided that yes, penguin should claim or die, based on the cases

you people

have presented.

And christ, I hope someone does quckhammer. that'll certainly give some direction to day two.

Why hope for the quickhammer? This is already a fast game. The deadline is a week away. Why the preoccupation with a claim so soon?