Cephrir 3 - (OhGodMyLife, Qwints, Jazzmyn)
Apothecary 1 - (MacavityLock)
Not voting 5 - (Apothecary, Cephrir, Corvuus, Elmo, LLamaFluff)
With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.
I just want the reread from Jazz, I have her as town right now and would rather get a little more information about the game from my town reads before I put my vote on Ceph.OhGodMyLife wrote:I´m confused. Why are we still on day two?
I just dont think SC would of pushed his scum buddy Apoc the way he did when there were other options available. There was the early Atlas wagon, there was my push on Ythill, there was the talk of an MM wagon. SC just kind of sat on the Apoc wagon though the entire time, without really showing any intention of ever moving his vote. Due to this I just have to put Apoc as town, I dont see it as bussing.Elmo wrote:I also have this question mark about LF. I am curious why (going from memory) you said ML going back to Apoth is a "huge black mark" against him, it doesn't strike me as scummy rather than a disagreement with you. This is moreso because I think he's quite likely town.
Done more research on how the tell he is using to show the Apoc -> SC connection can be applied to Apoc -> most people, and use more of the SC -> Apoc connection given that in his post 58 had almost twice as many Apoc -> SC interactions then the other way around. When you just look at the Apoc -> SC interactions it does look like scum buddy interactions, but SC -> Apoc/other suspects makes Apoc look very town.Elmo wrote:I agree that Apoc is less likely to be scum because of SC's interactions with him, but I don't see why ML's suspicion "feels wrong" as opposed to a townie being misguided. It seemed quite natural, from what I recall, not like he dived into it... what specifically do you think he's less likely to have done if he were town?
I didn't say it proved anything. I just find it a bit more believable.qwints wrote:Now you're saying that ythill's death proves that he was correct about atlas.
I'm confused. Ythill is dead town. MM/OGML doesn't make much sense as an SC-buddy anymore as I described, though I am looking at that mostly as OGML -> SC interactions vs other way around. Atlas/qwintz is currently my second scummiest read. (Changes to that will likely depend on Jazz.)LlamaFluff wrote:@ML - Can you explain why interactions between SC and other players apart from Apoc make Apoc scum? Primarily focusing on SC-other wagon possibilities (Ythill, MM, Atlas).
As Ceph is in the middle of my scumlist right now, I don't feel like I should be the one building a case on him, nor do I feel like I should be defending him specifically. What else could a long in-depth post accomplish?Apothecary wrote:One thing that niggled me was the long post you made drawing connections between me and SC, and posted afterwards exclaiming you wouldn't do the same on Ceph. That seemed very.... Interesting.
I what what the what? Are you confusing me with OGML?Apothecary wrote:Elmo... He's been a strong pusher for the Ceph wagon. I don't think he's scum, but I strongly disliked the wagon.
I was quite specific in those posts about how I felt about Ceph.Apothecary wrote:I never said anything about building a case, or defending him. Just showing us where you stood at that point. You certainly showed where you stand on me. It'd be nice to see that clarity on the main suspect of most people.
I did try to defend myself from OGML at first, but it seems pretty hopeless as even a few players who aren't voting me have declared an intent to. I would think that the general lack of hesitation on my wagon would make a few players realize what (I assume) is going on here. If a mafiate was getting lynched today, their partner if they have one would probably be defending them to the max realizing that they could get screwed. Anyway, since both you and Corv seem to want a defense against Corv.Apoth wrote:One thing I will complain about is his lack of defense now.
Not voting much isn't a scumtell? My vote typically moves around a lot at first then sticks in one place, be it a player or no one, for most of any given day until I see something I can really get behind or make a case of my own... isn't that how most people do it?Corvuus wrote: He then FoS' and votes for SC... and basically never votes or FoS' *anyone* else for the rest of the time (at least that I can see except for MM when he is *asked to place his vote*). He unvotes after SC's claim but doesn't vote Apoth (or FoS apoth or do that much in the beginning) but then he comes out with MM (OGML now) as being SC's scumbuddy.
This is exactly like OGML's case. The motivation you assign to my SC vote is that I'm trying to look townie, but at the point at which I voted SC, that wagon wasn't really moving yet. I think I was one of the more pivotal votes there that allowed the shift, and I hate to bring up meta, but I've never bussed anyone (the only exception being on one occasion when I realized my scumbuddy had been investigated guilty). I had figured SC was scum all day, and when OGML offered a chance to get rid of him I was all for it.Corv wrote:That... is probably the single most 'darning evidence'. SC as scum claims doc in attempt to kill a real doc (if we have one), survives another round (but he will be lynched eventually before end of game), Ceph gets on SC's wagon to look townie (Ceph has voted or FoS SC the entire game practically)
I just get tired of saying this. All the cases I've seen against me today have decided that I'm scum before the case is actually made. Yes, it's possible that I'm scum and my motivation is as you've interpreted it. But there's also the possibility that I just wasn't sure about Apoth and believed MM was scum.Corv wrote:*AND* Ceph stays off Apoth so that when town lynches town, the odds of there being "no scum" on the wagon at all is slim and by setting MM (OGML) as SC's scumbuddy when SC does flip scum, MM (OGML) may be lynched next as the fall guy and thus the end game is 'do-able' since SC's scum lynch would cost town at least 3 players so scum team can still 'eek' out a win.
Or alternatively, OGML entered the game and began playing in a pretty protown manner, and it took me a while to forgive the role for its previous incarnation.Corv wrote:I guess if Ceph had ever addressed more why MM/OGML was scummy, then I would be less certain but... MM being replaced by OGML threw out the old plan of 'pinning the guilt on the newbie MM' who would have been ineffective at defending himself from being a scumbuddy lynch.
See above, and also I was probably being OMGUSy. I can't help it sometimes >.<Corv wrote:Ceph 'backtracking' from OGML as scum
Well as to my pairing him up with SC, that was just an overdramatic statement made because I believed both were scum, not because of any connections between the two. If you really want me to go post why I thought MM was scummy then I will do that; I thought it was glaringly obvious.Corv wrote:and not really being able to say why MM/OGML was scum/scummy and why they were buddies... makes me believe it is a scum ploy and that Ceph is scum (plus Ceph-SC interaction with each other, and comments when I made my illogical leap from Primate to SC being scum).
I don't know why no one can find my initial defense from OGML. It's there, people. I don't know why anyone blames me for ceasing to try after I was on L-1 for about forever with multiple players expressing a desire to hammer me.Corv wrote:Ceph also had ample time to defend himself and this position but he hasn't, even when I unvoted and he could have come out and said many things to try to convince me and such...
This says absolutely nothing. Neither you nor OGML, nor anyone, has invalidated my initial defense; OGML basically just steamrolled over it because he'd already decided I was scum. You yourself used the words "tunnel vision"; it's quite applicable both to your case and OGML's.Corv wrote:instead, I just re-read, re-think and find that I do see OGML's point of Ceph trying to pawn MM off as scumbuddy, etc. and that, in addition to other points, brings me back to...