Artem (4) - Danchaofan, BSG, Lynx the Antithesis, Charter
BSG (2) - Alvinz95, Xdaamno
Charter (1) - Panzerjager
Artifex (1) - Lowell
Not Voting (4) - Artem, Master Ruck, Artifex, Darox
With 12 alive its 7 to lynch
Deadline is still January 25th
So 1) you dodge the issue of acknowledging you wanted to vote for charter but didn't because it would come across as scummy 2) You create a scum team of BSG and charter for really bad reasons. 3) BSG, scum? only if you like omgusArtem wrote:What Idofind interesting is that you're so concerned with whether I voted or FoSed somebody, while completely disregarding my given reasons. You said that you don't see the WIFOM. It was pointed out to you. Yet you seem adamant about your opinion of charter putting you at L-2.
I can FoS charter. I can also vote for him. It doesn't make much difference right now as there is no bandwagon on him. I'm not pouncing on an easy target. I'm giving him a slap on the wrist, because townies (assuming he is one) shouldn't play with WIFOM as it distracts and confuses the town.
The fact that you're pouncing on me, while disregarding my arguments against charter tells me that you're really not so worried about the bandwagon on yourself. Why would that be? (One scenario may be that charter (or somebody else on your wagon for that matter) is/are (one of) your buddy(-ies), so you know that they may unvote you at any point to prevent a lynch of you.)
is wifrom.Artem wrote:(b) If I voted for my buddy to distance myself from them, why would I unvote them when they were not in any danger, especially since I didn't vote for anybody else?
Artifex wrote:Isnt the WIFOM in question that Panzer said it was scummy to put someone at L-2, then Charter immediately did it as a response to what Panzer said...no scum would open themselves up to scrutiny like that. Or would they, knowing we'd all think that? Or *switching wine, switching wine*BSG wrote:And I don't see the WIFOM.
I think I might be getting caught up into a semantics argument. I'm assuming someone is easy if they are doing scummy things. Thus, I equated lynching the easy target to lynching the scummy target. The most blatant example of something scummy one could do was to claim scum so I gave that as an example.charter wrote:Going after easy targets is scum tactics. Town goes after scum, not whoever they can lynch easiest. For me, it depends on how someone claims mafia (though it doesn't occur frequently enough to worry about) before I decide whether to vote them, but many players have policies of voting anyone claiming mafia.dan wrote:Maybe I have a slightly more fundamental issue. What's wrong with going after easy targets? i.e. if someone outright states they are mafia, are they an easy target? Should you vote for them? (assuming nothing crazy like suicide roles.)
If we're calling 'charter put BSG at L-2 after Panzer said putting someone at L-2 is scummy' WIFOM, then I did it because A) I don't think it's WIFOM or scummy, so this whole thing never even entered my head and B) because I saw a great opportunity to uncover links between BSG and anyone and how BSG would react and C) it was coincidental, that was my last post before I was leaving for a while. I fail to see how me doing it right after you said it would be scummy is any more WIFOMy than if I did it a while later either. Since I don't see this, I saw you basically arguing that whoever puts someone at L-2 is suspicious, which is ridiculous.Panzerjager wrote:Way to dodge my question charter. Why did you intentionally lead the game into WIFOM teritory? You purposely put a L-2 vote for virtually no reason after I had said it would be scummy to do so, without explaining yourself. Pressure was already there so if you are town or scum you'd already gained that. The extra advantage you get as scum would be dragging the game into WIFOM territory confusing players and taking discussion off a buddy(I believe discussion on Artem had just start) and on something that we couldn't lynch you for exclusively.
How do you explain Artem being my top suspect currently?Panzer wrote:I believe you voted to intentionally to pull discussion away from Artem.
Unfortunately, it isn't OMGUS. You're still going on about L-2 being claiming time, when page two is NOT claiming time, even if you're at L-1. Claiming when not under real pressure is scummy too, so if BSG had claimed we'd have even MORE to work with. Plus, I find your putting someone at L-3 then saying whoever puts them at L-2 is horribly scummy. It A) stops pressure on the person getting wagoned and B) gives you a new person to call scum when someone puts them at L-2. I found your original statement to be quite scummy.Panzer wrote:And I appreciate the OMGUS suspicion you throw at me at the end of your post.
Just quoting this as a reminder to myself if panzer is revealed scum.dan wrote:Whats wrong with panzer again? Most of your post seemed to address artem.
I'm not entirely sure what else you want me to say. I've provided my view of the "easy target" argument in #68. The rest of your post simply comments on my skill level and provides an advice. I've noted it.Panzerjager wrote:Artem, I wanted you to answer that.Panzerjager wrote: So voting someone you find scummier then everyone else is scummy and attacking an easy target? Riiiiiiight. Also, if you FoS someone who is claimed scum, you clearly are a poor player. Assuming their are no Jester-esque roles, you lynch the claimed scum, period.
Dan wrote: Artem, (b) is Wifom?
Sure, it's WIFOM if you think that I (as scum) would do something pointless, just for the whole sake of later claiming that it was pointless for scum to do that. I would still like to hear from Lowell why he thinks his reason (b) has good motivation for scum.BSG wrote:Don't like this. Isn't this WIFOM?Artem wrote: (b) If I voted for my buddy to distance myself from them, why would I unvote them when they were not in any danger, especially since I didn't vote for anybody else?
@Charter: I still see what you've done as WIFOM. Lynx sums it up the best:charter wrote: What advantage would I gain as scum doing that I wouldn't gain as town? Why did I do it?
Placing somebody at L-2 to look for reactions is scumhunting. Doing what somebody called scummylynx wrote: However, the part most of us find scummy is the fact that charter placed the L-2 directly after Panzer stated it was scummy to do so.
The assumption is made for the sake of the argument. If that assumption is not made, the argument makes no sense.charter wrote: Why are you assuming I am town on page 2?
It's hard to distinguish between scum and town when somebody jumps on an easy target, unless, of course, you know the alignment. However, I used it as an argument to vote Artifexdan wrote: ATM, I find artem the most scummy. You never satisfactorily answered what is wrong with pouncing on easy targets. Sure there are opportunistic scum, but there are also people who, for good reasons, seem scum.
Can you break these up and provide the appropriate quotes, please? I'm having a hard time seeing how you've derived all of that from my three paragraphs.dan wrote: So 1) you dodge the issue of acknowledging you wanted to vote for charter but didn't because it would come across as scummy 2) You create a scum team of BSG and charter for really bad reasons. 3) BSG, scum? only if you like omgus
Well, if this statement is truecharter wrote:I fail to see how me doing it right after you said it would be scummy is any more WIFOMy than if I did it a while later either.
then I agree with you, and would find nothing suspicious about your actions at all. I just find it really difficult to believe that Panzers actions and yours were unconnected...At the time it was my very strong impression that you had deliberately voted BSG because of what Panzer had said.charter wrote:Panzerjager wrote: C) it was coincidental, that was my last post before I was leaving for a while.
I dont see how you can say the idea of it being WIFOM or scummy never occurred to you- it's clear that you were aware of what Panzer was saying and were in fact responding to it.Charter wrote:I see what you're up do. I disagree about putting someone at L-2 being scummy. I also note how you wait to put BSG at L-3 and then say that putting someone at L-2 being scummy.
unvote, vote BSG
Changes toLynx The Antithesis wrote:I'm not a huge fan of the Artem L-2 vote from charter, but I do find it interesting that Artem didn't vote. There's no reason not to vote. I think Artem is being careful not to draw the same attention he received from his first vote.
Then changes toLynx The Antithesis wrote:I'm not voting Charter becauseI don't find his vote suspicious.I think it fufilled it's intended purpose by evoking a response. On the otherhand, you FOSed him. You've expressed some suspicion of the move so thats why I asked why you didn't vote for him.
So do you think it's scummy only because of the WIFOM? Do you think that charter is not an opportunistic scum pouncing on an easy target then?
And then comes full circle toLynx The Antithesis wrote:Artem,I would put someone at L-2 just to see what happens.Mostly, as a means of pressure to see how the wagonee would react.
Lynx The Antithesis wrote: However,the part most of us find scummy is the fact that charter placed the L-2 directly after Panzer stated it was scummy to do so. This is a direct challenge to it and entirely WIFOM(why would I place the vote if I knew it was scummy? What scum would be so boisterous?)
I'm sure BSG is a big girl and can handle herself, so why do you feel compelled to hold her hand through it here?Lynx The Antithesis wrote:BSG shouldn't be worried about the wagon on himself because the wagon is largely from the random voting. I think to say that's he's not worried because a scum partner's on his wagon is a stretch. I wouldn't be worried about it either because there's no basis for the wagon. There's little he can do to defend it. All he can do is continue to scum hunt which he is currently attempting to do.
The biggest problem I have here is BSGLynx The Antithesis wrote:And just for everyone's info as Master Ruck has stated, I first said BSG has nothing to worry about because most of the votes on her were random. So don't jump to the conclusion that BSG is a calm townie because I may have instilled some sense of safety in her without hearing from her first. Fault on me cause it defeats any purpose of gauging her reaction from the wagon.
Xdaamno hasn't unvoted me.Rules wrote:[01] VOTING METHOD: Votes must be in bold. example: Vote: LlamaFluff If you do not bold your vote, it will not be counted. You must unvote before casting another vote, if you wish it to count.