Mini #717 - Alpha Centauri Smalltown (Game Over!)

[Raging Rabbit]

The most significant thing I can glean from this is that ortolan didn't make the NK and targeted me rather than a scumbuddy (which is what a scum doctor would've probably done), so he's likely not scum. Empking didn't make the kill either if ML's telling the truth, and charter used his action on killing farside. So assuming Oman chose to redirect something rather than kill, the scum kill was made by either DP, Ceph or Occam (or, far less likely, ML). That doesn't help all that much, now that I think of it.

And yeah, we know the SK offed Oman. Vig kills have distinctive flavor.

[ortolan]

Orto, why did you chose charter to claim after you?

I was curious about his choice of targets. I assumed the mind worms death was the serial killer and didn't put two and two together in regards to the opening post saying only the vig has distinctive kill flavour.

I cant image scum would redirect an invention or mason over something like a kill or block of some sort....They didnt bother with redirecting or blocking (if they had that) the vig which I find very interesting. However, the jailer could have blocked the redirector..that we will not know.

The reason scum might not redirect/block the power roles is that they're obviously accountable for their actions the next day. I don't like the way you're implicitly trying to clear MacavityLock here (not that I've previously found him particularly scummy), by suggesting he can't be scum otherwise he would have roleblocked the vig.

If he were scum there's no good reason why he should block the vig unless he thought he could argue he found charter scummy and thus blocked him; it's still possible he didn't block charter because he's his scumbuddy, or if he's scum and charter is town he didn't block him because he knew there was a high likelihood charter would kill a townie anyway (which in fact he did), plus if he had blocked charter he'd need to explain himself anyway.

[Empking]

I got no sabilities.

DP rolled without asdking the town. He rolled so he could no if the person with the first choice would hurt the scum. Only scum would do that.

DP admitted to having a night action. He is BP. BP does not have a night action. Scum have a night action. Therefore BP is scum.

[Raging Rabbit]

Where did he admit to having a night action, exactly?

[iamausername]

"I swear sometimes they're watching me."

-- Bozon Pete, Shift Foreman, Metagenics Biomachinery Division

-=Vote Count #18=-

Drunken Piper (1) - Empking

Not Voting (7) - Cephrir, charter, Drunken Piper, MacavityLock, Occam, ortolan, Raging Rabbit

5 to lynch.

[Empking]

His unwillingness to part claim is as good as admitting it.

[Cephrir]

No, it's really not.

[Drunken Piper]

I have no clue what emp is saying now..
he is as understandable as a cow.

(drink)

I don't like the way you're implicitly trying to clear MacavityLock here (not that I've previously found him particularly scummy), by suggesting he can't be scum otherwise he would have roleblocked the vig.

Interesting you read my remarks that way (noted). If I was leaning anyone as being scum..it was was charter when I wrote that. I found it interesting that the vig was not redirected by scum to kill someone they chose. granted you are right, Oman would have had to be accountable for his actions...but he could have simply said "I thought he was scum". So do you think charter should be held accountable for his actions?

The most significant thing I can glean from this is that ortolan didn't make the NK and targeted me rather than a scumbuddy (which is what a scum doctor would've probably done), so he's likely not scum. Empking didn't make the kill either if ML's telling the truth, and charter used his action on killing farside. So assuming Oman chose to redirect something rather than kill, the scum kill was made by either DP, Ceph or Occam (or, far less likely, ML). That doesn't help all that much, now that I think of it.

I find this post interesting too. If you take all of the claims at face value and assume the three killed last night did abasolutely nothing..then you could come up with your conclusion. I guess I am confused by the point of this post? We have three scum (2 mafia and a sk) left...most likely they are lying about their actions...ALSO, we are not sure what the three dead did.

His unwillingness to part claim is as good as admitting it.

I dont even know what the fuck you are talking about..

EMP please answer my questions...reposting them so you dont ignore them AGAIN..I am not going to go away...I notice how you started ignoring me once I caught you in a lie...

acutally emp, I dont have a fucking clue what you are saying..did you or did you not intially attack me for wanting random claiming? AND why are you ignoring questions?

Empking, partially claimed, no night action.

Emp were you targetted last night with anything or are you going to not answer that question either?

please address this post.

Lying 101,
get your facts straight, son.

(sip)

I didn't have a problem with choosing randomly. I had a problem with allowing you to know who would go first.

Vote: Drunken Piper

Trying to get random claims with a descision from the town to do that clearly not pro-town plan.

As I have no night action.

DrunkenPiper, you can go first.

so I am scummy for wanting the random claiming? WHY IS RANDOM CLAIMING SCUMMY?

As Popcorning is more pro-town.

backtracking, stretching, and lies...YOU HAD A HUGE PROBLEM WITH RANDOM CLAIMING...

vote empking

(unless something in claims changes this)

You orginally spouted that I must be scum because I wanted random claiming..now you are saying you didnt have a problem with random claiming after I pushed you to explain why. I didnt care who went first...I just wanted it to be random. THAT IS WHY YOU INTIALLY ATTACKED ME.

you lied about not thinking random claiming is scummy (which is why you first started attacking me). Now you are back tracking on that. You are stretching with you "case": Over reaction is scummy...and since I didnt claim (even though I dont have night actions) after you wanted me to..I must me scummy.

Speaking of scum, why do you GET to decide you popcorned first?

also new questions..

WHY DO YOU KEEP IGNORING QUESTIONS?
Explain to me why over reaction is scummy?
If you think I am scum, why have you not produced a case?

[ortolan]

So do you think charter should be held accountable for his actions?

Of course, I am waiting for him to reply to your question in Post 598.

[Empking]

DP, you have more votes than me. You should answer the questions for you first.

[MacavityLock]

The most significant thing I can glean from this is that ortolan didn't make the NK and targeted me rather than a scumbuddy (which is what a scum doctor would've probably done), so he's likely not scum.

Two things:
1) orto didn't make the S.C.U.M. NK. There's no reason he can't be the SK.
2) As RR is not confirmed, we cannot make any conclusions about protections either.
Still, as I haven't found RR that scummy, I agree with this in general.

Empking didn't make the kill either if ML's telling the truth, and charter used his action on killing farside. So assuming Oman chose to redirect something rather than kill, the scum kill was made by either DP, Ceph or Occam (or, far less likely, ML). That doesn't help all that much, now that I think of it.

Because we don't know the exact actions of the JK or Redirector, we can't come to any complete conclusions here either.

@mod

, I don't think I saw this in the rules, but I'd like some clarification if possible: If someone gets RBed, JKed, or Redirected, are they told about it?

[MacavityLock]

Sorry for double post.

We have three scum (2 mafia and a sk) left...most likely they are lying about their actions.

The SK does not have to lie. They both get their regular action + a NK and that NK is untrackable.

[iamausername]

@mod

, I don't think I saw this in the rules, but I'd like some clarification if possible: If someone gets RBed, JKed, or Redirected, are they told about it?

Tracker (or someone using the Track/Watch inventions) would be informed that they were blocked, but not that they were redirected. No other roles would be informed about either.

[Occam]

I have to say, Emp is looking a lot worse that DP in this exchange. Emp, regardless of who has more votes, I believe DP asked you those questions before you asked him. Answering them would be nice.

I also don't understand how not claiming is the same as admitting to being scum. Especially since he's BP - the only logical conclusion to draw from his unwillingness to claim is that he was waiting to reveal whether or not he was targeted. How you can draw the conclusion that he's scum from that, I'm not sure.

I don't think either side of this claiming order debate is any more or less right or scummy than the other. It really doesn't matter whether the person who starts is randomly chosen by dice or if someone just starts. To me the order of night actions method made most sense, but regardless, I also don't understand Emp's insistence that rolling dice was scummy. How? It's still random and DP still can't control it.

For pressing this bizarre, weak case to no logical end,

vote: Empking

[Drunken Piper]

Emp or Occam can answer this.
because i really am getting pissed.

(sip)

what questions have I not answered? Please provide a link or post number..

.why is no one else up in arms about Emp's avoidance of questions, lies, and shitty anti-town play?

Emp, another question (they are starting to pile on now)...if you think I am scum..why at the very least are you not providing your case?

[Occam]

.why is no one else up in arms about Emp's avoidance of questions, lies, and shitty anti-town play?

I just voted him for it.

And I don't think I ever said you (DP) were not answering questions.

[Raging Rabbit]

I find this post interesting too. If you take all of the claims at face value and assume the three killed last night did abasolutely nothing..then you could come up with your conclusion. I guess I am confused by the point of this post? We have three scum (2 mafia and a sk) left...most likely they are lying about their actions...ALSO, we are not sure what the three dead did.

1.) Orto, Fully claimed. Protected RR and was not targetted(chose charter to go next)
2.) charter, partially claimed. Killed farside
3.) Cephrir, fully claimed. Did nothing and was not targetted(chose occam, who has already claimed)
4.) Occam, fully claimed, did not commute and was not targetted (chose DP)
5.) DP, fully claimed, no night actions and was not targetted (chose ML)
6.) ML, fully claimed, block Emp and was not targetted (chose RR)
7.) RR, fully claimed, tracked "confirms that Orto protected RR" and was not targetted.

other claims out of popcorn order:
Empking, fully claimed claimed, no night action and was not targeted.

I know that neither me nor ortolan made the kil. charter didn't because he vigged farside. Emp didn't unless ML is lying or unless ML's block was tampered with. That leaves Ceph, Occam, DP, as our most likely killers, with Emp or ML being less likely possibilities.
The three dead guys don't influence this that much - farside couldn't, Oman and Yos may have only if they targeted ML - which makes no sense for Yos, and is possible for Oman - so Emp is a bit more likely, but still not as much as the other three.
That doesn't tell me all that much, and tells the rest of you less since you less since you don't know I'm innocent, but since you questioned the analysis itself...

Also, why would you automatically assume scum lied about their actions? They may want to tell the truth in order to look pro town and in case I tracked them. The SK has no reason to lie whatsoever.

1) orto didn't make the S.C.U.M. NK. There's no reason he can't be the SK.

By scum I meant S.C.U.M. There's no way for us to track the SK via night action analysis.


Empking's behavior is scummy, no question there, but I've seen him make a similar nonsense attack as town before so I'm not drawing radical conclusions yet. I would like him to start answering questions, though, and am taking note that he isn't.

[charter]

I think popcorn holds people accountable for more choices, and is thus slightly better than random.

Agreed. Also, I wasn't targetted by anyone last night.

I protected Raging Rabbit last night

I am interested that no-one targeted him in light of the pro-town read I was getting on him and the fact he is the tracker (although it could be put down to nightkill-WIFOM either way)

I would like to hear from charter next.

Btw I would prefer if the last two were MacavityLock and Raging Rabbit, in that order, cause they can potentially contradict people's claims if they're lying (and otherwise the people in question will know in advance to nominate an alternative lie).

How do you know no one targetted him?

Ort you shouldn't have claimed first. DP rolled so he could change his reaction to popcorning once he knew who was going first. We shouldn't have gave that to him.

Almost sure DP is scum.

I think you're following false leads. DP had the same chance as going first as anyone. Plus, he wanted random, which means that he wanted it so that no one had any say in when they went, meaning no one could possibly plan anything.
589- I agree that you caught Empking, but I don't really see it as some scum plan from him. Sure he could still be scum, but I don't see this action as a scumtell.

Charter, why did you decide to kill farside?

I was about as sure that her and ort were scum. I also figured I'd have a much easier time today getting Ort lynched, so her.
600- I actually agree a lot with this.

607- DP, for Oman to redirect me, he would have to know WHO I was killing, not that I was killing.
609- No, that's not how it works.

I see Empkings attacks as anti-town, but not really that scummy.
Occam (and everyone) what is your opinion of Ceph? Mine is that he is scum.

Vote Ceph

[MacavityLock]

Charter, why did you decide to kill farside?

I was about as sure that her and ort were scum. I also figured I'd have a much easier time today getting Ort lynched, so her.

Why did you kill at all last night?

Occam (and everyone) what is your opinion of Ceph? Mine is that he is scum.

Vote Ceph

Why is Ceph scum? Why is ort no longer scum?

Also, I'd like for us to come up with a settled nomenclature for the S.C.U.M. that isn't "scum". I'm kind of sick about the confusion based around "scum". Any ideas? How about "mafia"?

[Raging Rabbit]

Ceph is a prime suspect, possibly along with emp. I need to hear more from both and do at least a partial reread before settling on a vote.

Also, I'd like for us to come up with a settled nomenclature for the S.C.U.M. that isn't "scum". I'm kind of sick about the confusion based around "scum". Any ideas? How about "mafia"?

Mafia, SK, scum in general works.

[ortolan]

charter didn't because he vigged farside.

Sorry, where in the rules does it say the vig can't also make the nightkill? I can't find it...

How do you know no one targetted him?

Sorry, I meant targeted him for the mafia/SK night-kill.

About Empking: yes, he looks scummy. I have previously played with him in a game where we were scumbuddies, and he also looked scummy in that. I'm in I believe two ongoing games with him (this and another, there might be one more I can't think of also) and think he looks scummy in both of them. I do also recall someone specifically saying he has a scummy meta. So currently I'm probably neutral on him.

[Raging Rabbit]

Quote:
...and you're a member of the Society of Centauri for the Unity of Mankind (or S.C.U.M. Alliance). You have decided that the goals and ideals of XXXX and YYYY are compatible with your own, and have formed a Pact of Siblinghood with them to try to conquer Planet together.

At night, you may communicate with your Pact Siblings using the following link: [URL], and you may choose one member of the Alliance to attempt to assassinate one of the other faction leaders

instead of performing their usual night action (if any).

You win when all survivors are members of the S.C.U.M. Alliance, or it is inevitable that this will be the case, or if any phase (Day or Night) begins with exactly two players alive, and one is a member of the Alliance and the other is an Isolationist.

[Empking]

I have to say, Emp is looking a lot worse that DP in this exchange. Emp, regardless of who has more votes, I believe DP asked you those questions before you asked him. Answering them would be nice.

I also don't understand how not claiming is the same as admitting to being scum. Especially since he's BP - the only logical conclusion to draw from his unwillingness to claim is that he was waiting to reveal whether or not he was targeted. How you can draw the conclusion that he's scum from that, I'm not sure.

I don't think either side of this claiming order debate is any more or less right or scummy than the other. It really doesn't matter whether the person who starts is randomly chosen by dice or if someone just starts. To me the order of night actions method made most sense, but regardless, I also don't understand Emp's insistence that rolling dice was scummy. How? It's still random and DP still can't control it.

For pressing this bizarre, weak case to no logical end,

vote: Empking

When did he ask the first qquestion? (That I didn't answer.)

DP is dodging the question and in order to disguise that he's asking more questions. That's what scum would do.

[Raging Rabbit]

What question is he dodging?

Congrats on a great avatar, ortolan.

[Empking]

CKD & DP; Do you support random lynching?