Mini 707: Cops and Robbers Mafia (Game Over)

[charter]

Vote Count:

Fuzzyman - 1 (corporate)
Green Crayons - 1 (Empking)

Empking - 3 (Fuzzyman, crywolf20084, mykonian)

Not Voting: (4)

Green Crayons
Mizzy
Ether
q21

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

[Green Crayons]

In reviewing Fuzz, I have come to the conclusion that he started out the game as moderately protown but has ended up as highly suspicious.

Fuzz started out with his big stretch vote that was a load of crap but I wasn't going to fault him at the time because he was trying to get us off of the "random voting stage." I stood by his move to get us off the randomness at the time, and I still support that move generally in any game whatsoever.

At the time I was making a big ole fuss about how shortsighted it was for other players (such as Mizzy) to vote people (such as Fuzz) who were attempting to move the town away from random voting and in doing so I was answering and attacking a good majority of points - even those that were not made directly towards me. Because of this, Fuzz wrote in one of his "here's how I feel about the rest of the town" posts:

GC -2- This guy is also a likely townie, but I'd really like for him to stop bailing me out from people's attacks. I'm quitefine defending myself, and don't want to be thought of as someone who was cuddled up with you if you happen to flip scum later.

Now, I wouldn't qualify what I was doing at the time as "bailing [other player] out from people's attacks." I was pointing out shitty logic and calling people out on it. Regardless, this is how he interpreted my action and denounced it for whatever reason. That's all and good and I took minor offense to my play somehow coming across as a personal white knight instead of simply attacking bad logic, but other than that I really just let this statement slide at the time.


From there, Fuzz moved on to greener pastures, voting Mizzy because my infallible logic (har har) and then corporate because he was being a jackass and playing poorly for no good reason other than because he could (and thus not helping with any rereads because all "good" town/scum would vote for the purposefully unhelpful player).


After this feast of null tells all around, Emp decided to crash onto the scene with his logic-defying arguments and liberal definitions of mafiascum jargon. And it was almost immediately after that Fuzz attacks Emp's logic/person/whatever. Now, considering most of Emp's attacks were on me and all of them did not even consider Fuzz, one could easily qualify Fuzz's play as "defending" me/Ether/whoever else was facing Emp's illogical wrath. This is play I don't necessarily have any qualms with, but when one player decides that a certain performance is bad play and then decides to partake in that very same play, the hypocrisy smells pretty bad.

Also, the use of such lines as:

Your 354 was referring to GC's 350? I guess it was just so arrogant and ignorant that I couldn't tell.

...Is more ad hom than legitimate argument. Emp wasn't doing himself any favors in trying to win friends and he was(/is) a guy not easy to like. Comments such as the above that attacked Emp's character rather than the already meaty field of questionable logic seemed to hope for other people to vote against the player based off of how much they disliked him instead of legitimate reasons.


When the thread's focus significantly shifted to Simp, Fuzz pulled this number:

unvote; vote: Simpor

to counter Pat's unvote. I personally feel that Simp needs the pressure. I trust y'all to not make a hammer in bad judgement, and we'll be able to jump on anybody who does tomorrow, right?

Patrick noted at the time how odd this whole thing was ("I'm not sure what the point of [Fuzz's] 279 was. Simpor was spiritually at lynch-1, what does he need more pressure for?"). Fuzz then proclaimed that Patrick was townish because he unvoted to get Simp away from -1L, ignored the similarity with other players doing the same thing (Ether) while ignoring the fact that he undid the qualifier of his perception of Patrick's town-ness by putting Simp back at -1L.

When Ether points this out to him, he confesses about lying re: how much sarcasm he was using/if any at all and revotes Simp, but he fails to explain the disparity between his beliefs in the Player X -1L unvoting/Fuzz -1L voting action. It's a really weird post (424 to be exact) that doesn't actually hit upon the main point, it just seems to focus upon a bunch of minor points to make it look like Fuzz is being productive/helpful when I don't think he really is.

I also don't like Fuzz's 575 and 578. But I've done more reading in the past twenty minutes than I've done for a good week or so, so I'm going to take a break.

[Mizzy]

You said that the only thing on Emp was that he made no sense, so Mykonian noted his sub-par defense. Myko now wants confirmation that you are withholding your vote in spite of that, your opinions on his defense, or both.

I would personally prefer both.

I meant that I didn't see a lot of headway in current conversations other than "Emp makes no sense." That had nothing to do with the case.

I am withholding a vote because (from highest to lowest in importance):

1) The wagon and the speed with which it formed feels a little off to me.
2) It feels like the town is tunnel-visioned on the easiest suspect, not necessarily the best suspect.
3) Having sub-par defensive skills (or sometimes even a sub-par defense) is not indicative of scumminess. Which is kind of on the same line of thought as "being anti-town does not make someone pro-scum".

[mykonian]

...

It stays hard to have this game active.

Mizzy, do you still have something for me?

[crywolf20084]

I want to know where Ether went. She is suddenly VERY quiet.

[mykonian]

and you have found your big target again, well done.

I wouldn't say that only Ether is inactive the last time...

[crywolf20084]

No. I wouldn't. She just had opinions. And corperate has disapeared now too so... I dunno.

[Green Crayons]

Vote: Fuzz

.

Other people should do the same.

[Mizzy]

...

It stays hard to have this game active.

Mizzy, do you still have something for me?

Did I forget to answer something for you? Sorry, the game is really slow and it's hard for me to stay interested.

[charter]

I will send out more reminders tonight if any need to be sent. I'm not going to replace people until after Jan 1st.

[mykonian]

...

It stays hard to have this game active.

Mizzy, do you still have something for me?

Did I forget to answer something for you? Sorry, the game is really slow and it's hard for me to stay interested.

You had a case on me. I thought you had said you would post it, but you still haven't.

[Mizzy]

...

It stays hard to have this game active.

Mizzy, do you still have something for me?

Did I forget to answer something for you? Sorry, the game is really slow and it's hard for me to stay interested.

You had a case on me. I thought you had said you would post it, but you still haven't.

Honestly, I'd have to re-read to see what I was thinking at the time, but I don't remember right now. *Sheepish grin*

[mykonian]

never mind then. It wouldn't be much use if you have to think it up now.

[Green Crayons]

Just because she can't remember what the details were to this case doesn't make that case any less useful. It just means she can't remember.

Anyways, people should start a Fuzz wagon.

[Empking]

We already had one. How interesting that your new target is the one you know will have support..

[mykonian]

yes, and go fast through this day...

fuzzy was already the target, we finally had it at something else...

I thought you wanted to take a look at mizzy and ether too? What happened to that? The case on fuzzy I posted already on the first page day 2. You only used a few more words. It is not that hard to get a lynch then, does it?

Plz take a look at the other people before we lynch fuzzy.

[Green Crayons]

We already had one.

Doesn't mean that we shouldn't have another. Or does your logic dictate that if a player survives one bandwagon then he must be innocent? Because I can't see why else you would be pointing this out.

How interesting that your new target is the one you know will have support..

So are you suggesting Fuzz

isn't

a good target?

And wouldn't I just help push your sorry ass into a lynch if I wanted something easy - as your post suggests?

yes, and go fast through this day...

fuzzy was already the target, we finally had it at something else...

Whatever you're trying to say here isn't getting through. Please pad your message with more complete thoughts.

I thought you wanted to take a look at mizzy and ether too?

Mizzy, not Ether. Never Ether. I have always been a staunch supporter of Ether. And I'll look at Mizzy later - I looked at Fuzz and didn't like what I saw, for the moment that's more than enough effort from me to put into this game when so many others aren't doing anything.

The case on fuzzy I posted already on the first page day 2.

Yeah, I noticed that once I got to the end of my reading - I was posting as I went through and didn't see your post until I was pretty much done. Also, I noted I didn't enjoy anything about his responses to your criticism. So.. I don't understand. Are you criticizing me for independently coming up with the same issues against Fuzz as yourself?

It is not that hard to get a lynch then, does it?

What? Are you suggesting that somehow the guy with a single vote (now two, with my vote) on him is the easy lynch so I'm trying to push it simply for that reason alone? Not the guy who, with my vote added, would be -1L and with half the town hating his blind "logic?"

I pointed out my suspicions of Fuzz back on Day One. I'm sorry that I was flushing them out, but I'm pretty sure that's part of the game. You'll have to excuse me.

[Green Crayons]

Oh, missed this.

Plz take a look at the other people before we lynch fuzzy.

I have.

I don't want to lynch Emp. His play shows that he's a jerkass, not scum.
I don't want to lynch Ether. She's obvtown.
I don't want to lynch corporate. His playing is antitown, not scummy.
I don't want to lynch crywolf. I reread through my previous suspicions against her, keeping what Ether had to say about her in mind and decided that my suspicions were probably more off base than not. In light of this, I think she's much more town than scum.

I do want to lynch Fuzz. Reasons as stated.
I do want to lynch Mizzy. Reasons as stated way back in Day One. After a while of seeming a little more more town after her work took over, bits and pieces started to strike me as scummish as the thread went on, but I would need to do a reread to smooth out these accusations.
I do want to lynch myk. Ether and Patrick didn't like him. Patrick is a great scum hunter. He was also town. Ether is an above average scum hunter. She is obvtown.

I don't know about q21. I don't really have a read on him, he's just sort of meh. I don't feel like doing a read of him.

[Ether]

That will hopefully not happen again.

This is mostly a check-in. I'm still not thinking straight in this game; there are a lot of people I seem to be blanking out. (Annoyingly, Fuzzyman and Mykonian are among them.) I'll try breaking out the filter later; my parents have expressed irritation about how late I'm staying up.

The fact that Empking is tunneling on Canary specifically makes it drastically less sinister to me--he's not gonna get lynched like that. A part of me does worry that it's a ploy to avoid other topics. I'd still guess that he's town; his wagon doesn't really sit well with me, and there's some WIFOM about how my meta defense did get him off my back. (At the time, I interpretted q21's 466 as saying that Empking use obfuscating stupidity as a scum tactic--I didn't check up on Mini 617, but apparently he was town. Note to self: filter 617, compare Empking's tunnelvision between the two games.)

I like Canary's and Mizzy's reactions to the fast Empwagon.

Still overloaded with work but I wanted to chime in. I feel like mykonian is overthinking things, pointing fingers a little early, and in general, is seriously bugging me. His role speculation is infuriating, as is his implied viewpoint that his opinion is clearly the way things should be done.

This feels odd. My name could have fit into like 3/4ths of that.

[Empking]

I don't want to lynch Emp. His play shows that he's a jerkass, not scum.
.

Yety its you who has to resort to insults and lets lynch and bandwagon the people not in our group. (Simpor, Corporate and me.)

[Green Crayons]

Yety its you who has to resort to insults

Strawmanning! Strawmanning!

Show me where I am using

only

insults so that I have "resorted" to them instead of throwing a single one in there to sum up my general belief as to what kind of player you are which has been an evolving notion voiced throughout the game. Furthermore, prove to me that this "insult" is not just an accurate label which you helped to define for me but that you just don't like.

Ah man, this

is

fun. I can see why you do it, Emp. Talking about inane minor points while ignoring the forest does give one an incredible rush!

and lets lynch and bandwagon the people not in our group. (Simpor, Corporate and me.)

I have no idea what you're saying here. I don't want to lynch corporate or you. I have expressed why that is the case. I did want to lynch Simp. Not quite sure why you are grouping those three players together.

Also, yes. I want to lynch the people I find suspicious. I don't want to lynch people I find not suspicious. That's generally good play. Are you suggesting I should do the opposite?

[Empking]

Vote Green Crayons

[Fuzzyman]

Your vote is already on GC. Are you trying to emphasize something?

[Empking]

Vote Green Crayons

[Fuzzyman]

Oh, it's an imperative.

No. If you are able to pull a case on him out of your butt before you get lynched, then the bandwagon will come. But for now, no.