Mini 720 - SPQR Mafia {Game Over}

[Assmaster]

Simulpost with glork there.

I think you're stretching it a bit there Glork. First point. Second, Third are fine.

Yos, I think you're being a bit disregarding re: Xoxtm.

[Coriolanus]

.

You have interacted at reasonable lengths with me, dahill, xtoxm, and Yosarian2.

You have addresssed Tuberkulos and Erratus exactly once.

Unless I missed something, you have not ONCE mentioned or talked with Charter, Vincent, Incog, Pathetric, or Ass.

i read a mini game on this site where a player (meme, i think it was) said something about not mentioning when you think a player is town. that is something i thoroughly believe in. i think pathetric has been providing the greatest insights in this game so far (particularly the ether half), and i view ass and charter as very town. i admit that i haven't really considered vincent and incog, and that is probably a mistake of mine. but i think on the whole those players were not worth engaging.
i do suffer from tunnel vision. and maybe you're right; maybe i haven't engaged enough or have been aggressive enough. but i think that's an indication of a mistake, and not of being scummy. because the intent is certainly there.

You seem to want everyone to do this, but you don't seem especially willing to practice what you preach.

i don't think this is an accurate depiction of my behavior.
i questioned the notion of the chainsaw defense. i engaged yosarian on the benefits of lynching xtoxm. these are both recent things, yes, but for five pages three players all the rest of what was out there was garbage about whether i was an alt.
but i guess this is only applicable to recent events, because it was only recently that i started "preaching". to be honest, you haven't given me much of a chance to engage anybody. and i was involved in the two arguments i cited above. what more do you want me to do?

If you are dissatisfied with this, I can pull as many examples as you want until you're satisfied.

you use what works for you. i don't have the skill, time, patience, willpower, or willingness to use rhetoric well.

And I'm not saying this to get a point across to anybody but YOU. This is how I play at times, and you're going to have to deal with it. End of story.

don't care. i'm just here to state what i'm not going to do.

So don't go telling me that verbosity isn't useful to a protown player, because I guarantee you, you are DEAD wrong in that regard.

also don't care. FWIW, i'm never going to believe that (verbosity is not rhetoric.) minimalism seems to me always the way to go.

Who is this directed at, and where did that person refer to the wagon as "useless"? Nowhere between pages 6 and 9 was that word ever used, aside from your post. For someone who just bitched to me about "oratorical gymnastics," you have chosen your misquote rather poorly.

quotations were a mistake and i apologize for them. the point still stands.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

7 to lynch.

Xtoxm: 3 (Incognito, Yosarian2, dahill1)
dahill1: 3 (Pathetric, charter, Coriolanus)
Coriolanus: 2 (Glork, Assmaster)
Glork: 1 (Xtoxm)
Erratus Apathos: 1 (Rally Vincent)
Rally Vincent: 1 (Erratus Apathos)

Not Voting: 1 (Tuberkulos)

[Assmaster]

Right, starting to lose myself from drink. I'm out.

Happy, with my reads, or admitting they can't be accurate with present posts, on about a third of the players.

[Assmaster]

I appreciate you all pausing the game for me until I got back. Thanks.

[Assmaster]

Dear lord I am out of practice. :/

[Assmaster]

Fos: Pathetric

[Assmaster]

Hey look someone else has posted in thread in the past day oh no wait.

@Pathetric: Would you mind giving me a basic overview of the main discussion topics between the two of you pleeeeesssssseeeeeee.

@Dahill, would you mind linking me to a game you were scum in please? I gave up after 10mins work cause christ it shouldn't take that long.

[Coriolanus]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=

but that's a newbie game. dahill1 has a bizarre propensity to be town in his completed games.

also, i think assmaster might be high. maybe.

[dahill1]

Hey look someone else has posted in thread in the past day oh no wait.

@Pathetric: Would you mind giving me a basic overview of the main discussion topics between the two of you pleeeeesssssseeeeeee.

@Dahill, would you mind linking me to a game you were scum in please? I gave up after 10mins work cause christ it shouldn't take that long.

i've actually never been scum except for my very first game on the site
i replaced in about halfway through iirc

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7473

[Yosarian2]

Lol @ primate

SO, why the FOS? I don't see it, but then again both Ether and Patrick usually tend to look town to me.

[Coriolanus]

bet you it was for

. i think pathetric has been providing the greatest insights in this game so far (particularly the ether half),

[Assmaster]

Hey look someone else has posted in thread in the past day oh no wait.

@Pathetric: Would you mind giving me a basic overview of the main discussion topics between the two of you pleeeeesssssseeeeeee.

@Dahill, would you mind linking me to a game you were scum in please? I gave up after 10mins work cause christ it shouldn't take that long.

i've actually never been scum except for my very first game on the site
i replaced in about halfway through iirc

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7473

Thats not very helpful, <:evil: >

bet you it was for

err, no. That's a ridiculous reason.

It's primarily vibes. Their opinions are seem more like positions they are imho, a little too hasty in adopting, and Pat's posting in particular seems wary.

[Pathetric]

The Corwagon is stupid. Glork bugs me a lot; I'd move my vote to him without batting an eyelash. Actually, there are a few people that's true for.

I don't get Primate's explanation of his FoS. But sure, here's a summary, enjoy and please never ask me to do this again. This is color-coded so that statements that only I believe/believed at the time are in

gold

and Patrick's exclusive beliefs are in

blue

. We mostly agree.

• Dec. 17th
  • that defense was kind of weird from Glork
  • I hate Erratus's joke excuse for a vote
    • no, wait, that vote sort of makes sense considering what he'd already said
  • let's vote Glork
  • How does Incognito find this game confusing?
  • Primate's thing on Corio came off weird but we disagree on why and agree with the sentiment anyway
  December 18th
  • Xtoxm's selfvote is scummy, but Glork's vote is Space Monkeyish
    • Glork's vote is perfectly acceptable but I am ignoring Xtoxm I will read him and Corio later but in any case the Xtoxmwagon pisses me off
  • Dahill and Yosarian are weird
  • Tuberkulos
    • Yeah, he's scummy
    • Eh
    • Wait, no, that Primvote is townish, never mind
  • Dahillvote is good
  December 19th
  • oh wow Dahill was the guy in the Worst 5 thread who sheeped on Glork
  • Rally's Erratus vote
  • Dahill's nonresponse to Glork's unexplained vote is a double standard
    • no, that's null
  December 20th
  • Erratus is townish Yosarian is scummy what is up with Glork's response
  • the acceptability of Dahill's response
  • wait, Erratus isn't voting Yosarian anymore?
  • Glork is too smug about Xtoxmscum
  • not enthusiastic about Glork's Corio FoS
  • If we are counting his railing on Erratus then Yosarian has scumhunted so far this game otherwise he has not
  • the bottom of Ether's list at this point, in order: {Primate, Tuberk, Erratus, Xtoxm}
    • actually, Erratus's quick voteswitch was kinda weird, never mind that bit
  • we are still voting Dahill and not Yosarian
  • silly Xtoxm
    • scary Xtoxmwagon
    • • Corio wins
  • Glork is scummy
  • Yosarian is probably not scum with dahill
  December 21st
  • Incognito's Xtoxmhate is weird
  • Glork's Corvote is stupid
  • Holy shit there are a lot of scummy ICs in this game
    • maybe we're crazy. ._.
    • no Patrick we are messengers of TRUTH.

This doesn't cover everything. There's something in particular we're waiting to spring.

Secretly,
-Ether

[Coriolanus]

is this conversation directly quoted from a chat service or PM? if so, what are you using? or is this a summary of a discussion?

[Pathetric]

Nothing is a direct quote; it's a summary based on my AIM logs.

[Pathetric]

(-Ether.)

[Tuberkulos]

Dear Ether,

Could you answer this, please?

What did you think my reasons were for voting Assmaster?

The reason for why I wonder is because you said:

I understood Tuberk's vote at the time and it was the first thing I liked out of him.

But when I explained exactly why I voted Assmaster you apparently had misunderstood my vote, correct?

My advertisement wasn't a joke, though I admit skimmed your explanation pretty badly after seeing that it was indeed something about pushing the Xtoxmwagon. I didn't realize your dislike of Primate's remark wasn't based on the context: in general, I think selling wagons is a necessary way to move the game forward.

Hence my question.

Thanks in advance!

Sincerely yours,
Tuberkulos

[Erratus Apathos]

Has anything?

i agree. so why use them?

Why use anything? Well, it beats using nothing.

Regarding Erratus: Now I understand the subtle difference that he (and Patrick) are trying to make here. Nowever, I do not agree with it

at all

. "Can't say anything wrong if I don't say anything at all" is what I'm getting out of that, and that really irritates me.

I don't even understand why this argument is still in play, considering I've no longer said nothing.

But since it is still in play, think of it this way: Would my Yos vote have been more valid if I'd participated in a completely unrelated discussion before posting it? Because that's pretty much the bottom line of saying that an inactive player doesn't have room to criticize an active player's posting.

[Pathetric]

Dear Tuberkulos: Hmm. I could have sworn I'd answered this already, but apparently not. It was an extension of my 124; I thought your Primvote was for advertising a wagon to "kick off" a game that had already been kicked off, denying previous material. (For the record, I was fine with his baiting you response.)

Erratus: Chainsaw defense might hypothetically be useful as an associative tell, I guess...I haven't researched it thoroughly, and I wouldn't expect to use it often outside of certain formats like Vengeful. As an independent one that prompts you to vote the defender over the defendee, it's bullshit. Having said that, I don't really have a problem with the fact that Rally is being voted. (shrug)

To both of you: What are your opinions on Xtoxm, Coriolanus and Dahill?

The next sig-line in the pattern isn't particularly apt this time,
-Ether

[Tuberkulos]

Dear Tuberkulos: Hmm. I could have sworn I'd answered this already, but apparently not. It was an extension of my 124; I thought your Primvote was for advertising a wagon to "kick off" a game that had already been kicked off, denying previous material. (For the record, I was fine with his baiting you response.)

To both of you: What are your opinions on Xtoxm, Coriolanus and Dahill?

All right, that would've been a pretty valid reason to vote him too, I guess. I also bought that he wanted to see my response.

Xtoxm

Xtoxm has definitely not been a benefit to town so far. His self-vote and claim doesn't sit well with me at all. Some of you have played with him before it seems and claim that he has done similiar things in the past as town, so when looking at his history he might look town (not so scummy) to you. I have never played with him and when looking at this game solely (combined with the fact that he isn't a newbie), I read him as scummy.

Dahill1

Dahill1 got stuck at why Coriolanus was so defensive when pressured about being an alt. I don't understand why Dahill1 got so caught up in that because he didn't even find it scummy.

Dahill1's defense about quoting Glork has flaws. He claims at first that it is the location of the forum that depends on wethever info about other players is useful. Which in itself doesn't make any sense to me. An opinion or argument has as much value in a mafia game as it does in a mafia discussion elsewhere, in my opinion.

Hypothetical Situation 1: a) I say it's not scummy to do "XXX" in a previous game I have played here.
b) In a later game, I call someone out for doing "XXX". This is a contradiction because I previously had stated my stance which was clearly "XXX" isn't scummy.

Hypothetical Situation 2: a) I post someone's opinion on "YYY" which is contrary to another player's in mafia discussion. The opinion states that doing "YYY" isn't scummy.
b) I call someone out in a game for doing "YYY". This isn't contradictory because I never agreed that doing "YYY" wasn't scummy.

Hypothetical Situation 2

is exactly what we have here. But I don't understand the difference if

Hypothetical Situation 2

had occured in an actual mafia game. In other words, if Dahill1 had made the exact same quote in an actual mafia game dose that automatically make him agree with the argument/statement/post he quotes?

First it's the location of one's post that matters if it's of value or not. Then it's also the amount of times you make that post. His arguments aren't solid.

Coriolanus

Coriolanus got quite worked up in the alt-or-not discussion, but it's nothing that interests me. I don't understand his logic about letting Xtoxm live through the day if he is scum.
"Officer, we have reports on a violent man at Ceasars Palace."
"Okay, but let's go the Mirage instead."
"But Officer..."
"No butts! Let's go to the Mirage. Maybe there is a criminal there too?"
Makes no sense to me at all.

vote: Dahill1

[Rally Vincent]

I have difficulties reading Pathetric, but I found your summary interesting. Your heads seem to be split in opinion on dahill (as for Dec 20), and Dec 20 + 21 mentions glork glork glork. Yet you don't vote glork, which seems rather weird to me if you deem him that scummy. Why is that?

[Pathetric]

We're not really split on out opinion of dahill. I'm not wild about his explanation for non-explained votes being scummy, but could just about see it being truthful; Ether thinks he's just flailing. He also didn't attack Glork for doing the same thing (lynch-1 to boot), which Ether is somewhat more willing to put down to some "trusting the ICs" thing, although I could still just see him taking a swing at an easier looking target. His Xtoxm vote is lame, "you are just not being helpful at all and pretty much all your actions so far have been anti-town" is an excuse to place a vote.

Glork is on the list because I don't like his case against Corio at all. He characterises Corio as "Yet he just spent an entire page defending Xtoxm, rathar than hunting scum." which makes no sense, why can't Corio have been doing both those things? He asked Yos2 valid questions there, and he's taking a stand. He's doing plenty, more than a number of others. I'm not agreeing with Glork's assessment of him at all, and combined with his absurd stance on the EA/Yos2 argument, it bothers me quite alot.

Thirdly, I actually thought exactly what dahill thought about the whole "post restriction" comment... I'll just QFT Post 185 here.

I'd also like to know what's scummy about this.

The only thing I can even see as odd about Corio is his comment that Xtoxm can easily be taken care of later if scum. I'm not convinced it's scummy though. *shrug*

@RV, vote could easily be on Glork or Yos2 instead, not really seeing why number of mentions in the summary should equate to how suspicious we are of each of them (which is very close between the 3). What's your opinion of Corio? Are you going to respond to the guy you're voting?

Mod

: Can we get a deadline extension since it's christmas?

Patrick.

[Coriolanus]

christmas drama is flaring up, so let me just respond to one thing:

Coriolanus got quite worked up in the alt-or-not discussion, but it's nothing that interests me. I don't understand his logic about letting Xtoxm live through the day if he is scum.
"Officer, we have reports on a violent man at Ceasars Palace."
"Okay, but let's go the Mirage instead."
"But Officer..."
"No butts! Let's go to the Mirage. Maybe there is a criminal there too?"
Makes no sense to me at all.

i have major issues with this analogy, in that the town doesn't use the same methods a police force would. let me try to use it anyway:
"Officer, we have reports on a violent man at Ceasars Palace."
"Okay, but let's also go the Mirage. There seems evidence that there is violent activity over there that may be connected."
"But Officer... Can't we put that criminal off until tomorrow? This one's easier."
"Awww shucks, alright. Caesers it is!"

[Coriolanus]

and what's especially problematic is that

i don't think xtoxm is a criminal.