Toriel's Patience (end)

[Taly]

We eliminate here

Night 2 skipped

Then we vote Mercy V Fight

Dunn

dies

Night 3 skipped

We begin

Mercy or Fight

with a spare or elimination

Then, scum NKs happen for that subsequent nightphass

@Mod, can you confirm or correct this sequence of events?

Dunnstral will be eliminated or spared this game.

OH, that makes this easier

im doubly more interested in

Mercy

then

i really do think

Dunn

is town

[Taly]

i thought

dunn

would get flipped THEN we go into

mercy/fight

[Dannflor]

town core is like implosion, taly, keyleth, ydrasse

This feels like a really gross towncore. Like... I'm never comfortable hard townreading Ydrasse after too many games of watching Mena do that and lose hard. Taly is probably just the leader here and the more I think about the gamestate being weird the more I think that's not really townreadworthy-ish. I'll admit I've been falling into the trap of letting Taly be my rock to kind of guide me, but I don't know that there's something he's done to deserve that. Implo is solidly null for me, and a hard townread there is just :/ And legitimately I can't remember shit for keyleth's alignment.

I explained my implo town read like a few times over and no one engaged with it

I feel like implosion is someone that people desperately want to stay in the poe

Ydrasse is not that hard to read in my opinion and that also ignores that there is a large volume of content by mandate that can be town read

It feels a bit like you lead with the conclusion that this is a gross town core and then tried to justify that

[Dannflor]

VOTE: bingle

[Taly]

I feel like implosion is someone that people desperately want to stay in the poe

i actually like this take, but i want to hear more

[Dannflor]

I don’t know the reasons for scum reading him are just so nebulous aside from Meuh’s d1 case

I feel like there have been very loud voices such as mandate and myself who have voiced a town read on him for specific reasons and that hasn’t really been engaged with

Scum need to angle to be in the spare pool and if there too many townies in the spare pool than the game becomes impossible to win for scum

[Dannflor]

That’s why I’ve also been suspicious of voices like sakura and bingle (and alisae) who have pushed a deep wolf dannflor narrative for reasons I can’t really comprehend

I think I have the ability to obv town when I need to but i think the deep wolf narrative is an easy one to push without a lot of substance behind it and keeps me out of the spare pool

[Dannflor]

for legal purposes im not saying i scum read sakura in the above post

sakura please do not get angry at me

[Dannflor]

shirou can you summarize the beeboy meta town case

[Bingle]

why dont you challenge me if you think my townreads are unearned?

I may well challenge you, but I'm still catching up. Patience, Mr. Toucan.

[Taly]

we went from trying to pocket me to trying to dethrone me very quickly,

bingle

, im intrigued

[Taly]

is it because i want your partner,

freedom

, flipped?

[Taly]

Aorn, I intend to hammer

Meuh

. I don’t feel good about it,

but Ali’s post that it’s a wolf wagon doesn’t really resonate and I don’t think we have time to go somewhere else.

The

freedom wagon is like literally all of the people I find most sus at the moment

, so bleh, and I’m not really feeling it.

Why has RN been off the table?

Is there something ubertown from ari I’m missing?

[Bingle]

I haven't actually calculated the EV of either option and I want to do that before I answer that question. I think nearly always the play is spare unless I'm quite sure Dunnstral is scum but since spare + kill removes two of the most townread players per phase as opposed to Lim+NK lopping one from top and one from bottom it might actually not be as good an option as it seems at race value.

I didn’t even really consider sparing takes town power away from town just by virtue of being right. I guess it’s negligible with enough townbeards and a mechanical plan *bingle*…probably.

The idea is that spare and nk both targeting the top of the list means that weak town players are much more of a liability in a spare route game. I don't subscribe to the logic but do understand it. Spare is by far the superior option mechanically.

[Bingle]

we went from trying to pocket me to trying to dethrone me very quickly,

bingle

, im intrigued

I literally haven't thought about the game in two days, you can probably blame sudden shifts on that.

[Bingle]

i either end this game with a bunch of cracked eggs on a clown mask that i wear

or a town win

Why not both?

[Dannflor]

i don’t think you played hard enough if you don’t look back at your posts after the game is finished and cringe at least once

[Bingle]

Yeah idk Alisae I’m on page 15 right now and every mandate post is like….man that’s a really town process. I just don’t see scum even considering “oh I have to skirt around this overarching concept because even mentioning it could potentially invalidate catching scum in a strategy with a potentially large flaw”

The potentially parts are particularly notable to me since I often find myself setting slots up with a scum expectation and form a better read on whether they meet or move away from that expectation but that’s on a grander scale.

RC is actually one of the handful of players I was saying could reasonably do this as scum.

This post pings hard.

Like, I feel like knowledge of the tinfoil of RC=mandate is probably a big highlight in the scumthread, and this just feels like setting up to doubt the mandate slot. I don't think these are both scum from this positioning.

[Bingle]

i don’t think you played hard enough if you don’t look back at your posts after the game is finished and cringe at least once

Never look back in sadness. Only full, unmitigated fury.


DANNFLOR WHY HAVE YOU BETRAYED ME!

[Taly]

maybe the game

is

as easy as

Freedom/Bingle/X

[Keyleth]

Does this make one of Bingle/RCEnigma a wolf? It sort of makes me want to move my vote but that's really greedy so I shall just sit here and just, ya know sit with this thought in my head. I share the opinion with Dann that I don't really understand the Implo townreads but my read on them has gotten a tad lower because of the public opinion. Maybe I shouldn't follow that though? It's hard because I like to trust overall say vs my own, especially in a game where people seem very familiar. Feeling like a double voter.


The downside of Taly being the first spare is I don't get to log on and smile at Taly posting noise. It's charming.

[Taly]

So we are sparing

Keyleth

immediately after me, don't even question it

[Bingle]

I think RC could’ve won this game in his sleep by not outing and probably would have had more fun doing so

Not really? Like, this game is super resistant to tentpole players. RC can't just dictate lims forever, because if he's town he just gets spared and then has no game control. Honestly RC signing up for this would be surprising to me.

[Bingle]

So we are sparing

Keyleth

immediately after me, don't even question it

[Taly]

I was partially joking because I was flattered by

Keyleth]/b] but honestly, I think she is just town and I would be fine if she got spared