In post 258, Mandate wrote:
Because limming scum on d1 and d2 is the primary goal right now and we can think about what comes later later?
I see, although... that sounds like a tall order tbh, how often does that happen in games?
2 shots at hitting scum in an 11:3 mountainous really isn't terrible? and I also don't see in what way the point you're making proves that we shouldn't be scumhunting here.
In post 307, Keyleth wrote:
I wouldn't randomly throw out a townread and defend a player just for the fun of it?
Scum do that, though. Not "for the fun of it", but scum make reads and engage with the game in ways that aren't solely focused on pushing townies over or doing super surface level townie things. Scum want to act like they do as town, to look helpful, to look as though they're thinking about the game, to maintain presence, to cozy up to people, to not get seen as an inactive...
Sakura making a handful of posts that aren't focused on throwing someone under the bus doesn't mean she's town? It feels like a reach
I actually sort of feel the opposite, I think it it gets into a big game of people fighting to be the most town it becomes a lot harder to solve, but I don't think it's as important whether we spare or kill as not sparing scum!Dunnstral and not killing town!Dunnstral.
I've read over Meuh/Dunnstral being teammates in my head for about five minutes, got a headache then dropped the subject because I don't think I can go down that angle without it being random.
Dear Meuh, you spend two of the few content posts you've arguing against Sakura and in the first "perplexed" sounds like it has a negative connotation, but by the end...you find her townie?
Hmmmm
Were you planning to betray me again?!
VOTE: Meuh
The Deathtunnel Archon Shirou without any of his aggro or hyperposting powers.
Legend says that one day he may reclaim his Gnosis and show his effortful form once again, but until that fated day comes...
In post 376, Mandate wrote:
I actually sort of feel the opposite, I think it it gets into a big game of people fighting to be the most town it becomes a lot harder to solve, but I don't think it's as important whether we spare or kill as not sparing scum!Dunnstral and not killing town!Dunnstral.
Really? In my experience of video mafia and other stuff it at least felt a lot harder for wolves to fake a townread on their teammate vs making a wolfcase on inconsistencies of weaknesses villagers do. Maybe I'm incorrect in my theory and have a bit of choo choo brain because of my urge to send over all of Dann/You/Taly
In post 307, Keyleth wrote:
I wouldn't randomly throw out a townread and defend a player just for the fun of it?
Scum do that, though. Not "for the fun of it", but scum make reads and engage with the game in ways that aren't solely focused on pushing townies over or doing super surface level townie things. Scum want to act like they do as town, to look helpful, to look as though they're thinking about the game, to maintain presence, to cozy up to people, to not get seen as an inactive...
Sakura making a handful of posts that aren't focused on throwing someone under the bus doesn't mean she's town? It feels like a reach
forgot to quote this one too
The Deathtunnel Archon Shirou without any of his aggro or hyperposting powers.
Legend says that one day he may reclaim his Gnosis and show his effortful form once again, but until that fated day comes...
I think it's hard to find scum when that scum has no incentives that scum doesn't have. Scum who is a spare contender has the exact same play incentives as town. Sure, the one scum pushing for their buddies has different motives but even if most of the table agrees one person is scum you can't Lim/flip them and all their actions become wifom.
I dunno. I think Taly is the one I'd prefer to flip in the pairing as of right now but I think its possible that neither is scum. It's possible they're still two scum and I'm throwing. Who really knows.
In post 381, Mandate wrote:
I think it's hard to find scum when that scum has no incentives that scum doesn't have. Scum who is a spare contender has the exact same play incentives as town. Sure, the one scum pushing for their buddies has different motives but even if most of the table agrees one person is scum you can't Lim/flip them and all their actions become wifom.
Do you think this is all going to come down to what people think Dunnstral are or is there a route you want to go down regardless if you don't mind me asking?
I don't know how I'm supposed to take this comment. So I'm just gonna laugh.
it's nothing against you
you seem like a fun person
but im having a hard time telling if some of the things you're saying and posting on are actually scummy or if that's just your writing / speaking style
I haven't actually calculated the EV of either option and I want to do that before I answer that question. I think nearly always the play is spare unless I'm quite sure Dunnstral is scum but since spare + kill removes two of the most townread players per phase as opposed to Lim+NK lopping one from top and one from bottom it might actually not be as good an option as it seems at race value.
Since, like, if Dunn is scum and we spare we essentially need the top 8 most townread players in the game to all be town which is a very tall order. Even if we spare Dunn!town we need 6 town or 8 town with 1 scum in the middle which is a little unwieldy to ask for. I'm not sure, I want to see what the math says and maybe revisit the math based on me assuming that I am correct on how many of the top x players I think I can be sure are town on d3.
This is of course assuming I am making the decision in a vacuum, I'm sure other people will have thoughts and I think it's quite likely that we end up sparing no matter what just because that's what people want from an Undertale game and we go from there.
I don't know how I'm supposed to take this comment. So I'm just gonna laugh.
it's nothing against you
you seem like a fun person
but im having a hard time telling if some of the things you're saying and posting on are actually scummy or if that's just your writing / speaking style
Oh don't worry I wasn't offended!
It was just really funny to think about someone saying you having a wolfy personality so I started to laugh. My boss would get a kick out of that one!
If you're having such a hard time though, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have for me!
I haven't thought a lot about it but right now I'm at:
If Dunn is scum we need to choose fight, otherwise any mistake can make us lose the game.
Assuming Dunn is town:
I think if we miseliminate twice sparing start to sound more questionable given we'll need every townie to be correct in the last two potential days (3:4) and (2:4).
I think if we eliminate one scum and one townie, sparring sounds better/good
If we manage to get two scum in d1/d2 it's an auto win by sparring
The Deathtunnel Archon Shirou without any of his aggro or hyperposting powers.
Legend says that one day he may reclaim his Gnosis and show his effortful form once again, but until that fated day comes...
In post 391, Mandate wrote:
This is of course assuming I am making the decision in a vacuum, I'm sure other people will have thoughts and I think it's quite likely that we end up sparing no matter what just because that's what people want from an Undertale game and we go from there.
I think at least for me personally it all depends on D1 considering how much wolves would be in a tough situation because they basically have to defend their partner or pray that they're townread enough to not go over.
Although, I guess if Dunnstral is a wolf they don't need to feel too bad because it's one less slot to worry about but under my current point system I'm not seeing that as the case even though I want to hear from them on Meuh.
In post 183, Taly wrote:
to find associatives in the first 5 pages immediately is asinine in most cases, and i dont understand where you're getting your assertions
mandate
, its almost entirely a grief with my playstyle.
Does this also refer to me? I gave a fairly strong anti-association read.
In post 183, Taly wrote:
to find associatives in the first 5 pages immediately is asinine in most cases, and i dont understand where you're getting your assertions
I wonder how much activity levels matter because if you have to try and find villagers in people that don't post as much it's a lot more of an oh no sort of take in the mercy route vs the fight route. Not that I think we'll probably go that deep into detail. I should probably just keep most mercy/fight talk to myself until we're done.
Also is day 2.5 a real day or just a vote type deal that we can talk about?
Yeah like by the fourth spare you're out the top 5 most town people + Dunnstral and it means scummy slots are choosing between other scummy slots in a scum heavy pool which might be less good than it appears, am gonna check at some point
