Guns & Roses VI [Game Over]

[WhemeStar]

You never answered my other question btw

[Dunnstral]

Dunn

, is it fair to say your posts are very passive and provide little to the discussion even though there's a decent amount of volume to them?

No I don't believe that is correct. I do believe my posts move the discussion forward. They're not passive because they are asking new things.

[Enchant]

My final proposal is atleast one of wheme/alicae are scum. I still probably kill both though if i had choice.
I don't believe both are town. Never.


For anyone who consider me "bad" for claiming rose.
Issue is i didn't claim rose, i just pretended i am one. Like any PR pretends they are VT D1.

If i was asked question "hello are you cop" in normal D1, even if i was cop, my answer will be "No, i am VT". And probably yours will be too.
If you needed to answer every fishing question truthfully to have any credibility afterwards, you wouldn't last long.


And as worldwide, vig has right to not CC all vigilante claims. They have gun for it.
Anyone demanding stupid 1vs1 is foolish at best and scum at worst. Even if i win 1vs1 against Wheme, i still end up being shot for my troubles. And wheme hypothetically could be town, which leave me with tomato in the face.


If you wonder why i am mad. I am forced to pick gun, because i knew my rose pick most likely will be disbelieved, because i am Enchant and presumably, my goal is to grief everyone in every game. Even then, rose only justified if i am sure i live longer than D2.
So i picked gun and decided to get one shot off and that's it, but you can't even let it happen.

I guess there's no escape from terrible meta players.

[Taly]

I don't think "meta" is a good representation for why you're wagoned,

Enchant

.

1.

If you tried to force a massclaim in 87 and 171, why did you start your claim with a lie 123 166?

2.

Your read progression on

Wheme

is inconsistent:
87 108 - They're conftown because the other guns must be mafia.
166 184 - You said that you didn't believe that and that you are confident

Wheme

is mafia, wanting to kill him without resistance, the reason for your "read" in the previous posts.
428 - You don't really care to read

Wheme

even though you want to kill there, mostly off the original basis that they picked gun.
502 - They're scum with

Alisae

, another gun who scumreads BOTH you and

Wheme

.

You're also saying that your shot isn't even yours, even though

Wheme

is a scumread for you. Who else would you shoot?

After reading your ISO, I'm even more confused why

Wheme

townreads you, and why you're both not very talkative to the other when a lot of discussion is about both of your slots in some form or direction.

--
I had another important reason but my brain flopped.

[Taly]

Dear

Aristeia

,

Vanity votes bad

Sincerely,
Someone who vanity votes a lot

[Taly]

half-expected

ari

to vote me when she returns, id be disappointed otherwise I DESERVE SUSPICION.

[Taly]

fuck akathisia, completely unrelated to this but fuck akathisia

[Taly]

Dunn

, is it fair to say your posts are very passive and provide little to the discussion even though there's a decent amount of volume to them?

No I don't believe that is correct. I do believe my posts move the discussion forward. They're not passive because they are asking new things.

reads please

[Taly]

Alisae

- Town

Gamma Emerald

- Town

Theta Alpine

- Town

Titus

- Slight town

Malakittens

- Slight town

Celebloki

- Null town

The Bulge

- NA

mfeathers

- NA

Aristeia

- idfk

Dunnstral

- Nullscum

WhemeStar

- Nullscum

SirCakez

- Nullscum

Enchant

- Scum

Probably good to start ISO grouping in

Dunn/Wheme/Enchant/Cakez

since those are my bottom.

[Taly]

With so many roses, there doesn't seem to be a need to be secretive about claims this time, maybe.

Assumption "All mafia and some townie picked guns" asking for self.

Picking rose as scum is hard to justify.

Dunn

and

Enchant

open with similar themes,

Dunn

saying there isn't a need to be secretive and

Enchant

goes on to push for massclaim after making an assumption that mafia cannot be rose.

VOTE: Celebloki

Bad vibes

Noted

VOTE: malakittens
Still confused and kinda bothered by the suggestion that I’m skilled with mech, I can handle it but I would not say I’ve been pivotal to helping win a game that way

How does that make them mafia as opposed to just being wrong?

+1 good question actually

i do not think there are any advantages to doing so

maybe

i mean i could see some but
without trackers or anything like that there is no way to prove someone could visit if we have less then four people claim gun

The advantage is that we know there are 10 roses and 4 guns:

If mafia fake claim rose we know we can trust the gun claims

If mafia true claim gun they can be held accountable for where they are targeting

The downsides to claiming is that mafia can then target the guns. And the knowledge of guns today may not be helpful.

I like this point arguing against massclaim.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

Enchant

posits

Wheme

conftown with the mafia = all gun route, and relays a plan for all the guns to circle kill the other... I don't understand the town-motivation behind this. I know with

Alisae

there's an explicit scumread outside of their idea about how guns function in this game, but this feels like it could be

Enchant

wanting role information to tailor potential NKs. The town-motivation is less straight-forward if any is present, especially because the

Wheme

townread here was false.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

This actually does ping a bit like rolefishing, tbh. Kind of wondering if

Bulge

picked up on that.

I think after Wheme claimed gun, all 3 other guns are mafia and it's all pointless.

Weird logic loop, even with this read being false, it's positing that only town gun would claim.

i want to move off rvs but no one has scumpinged me yet so someone do that please

Fluffy posting

i do think the guns/roses claim discussion over the past few pages has been generally town-motivated

I didn't agree when I first read that

ok so why did you decide to pick rose?

Because it implues mafia need to remove me at some point.

The post preceding the lie that

Ari

caught.

I think massclaim is good, so we force everyone who claimed gun to shot each other, because i don't believe Mafia didnt Went full 3 gun fun.

Wheme is conftown, unless atleast one gun claims.

I never would go for that if I have a gun. I would shoot my reads period.

I smell you don't have it.

I might. I might not. Why are you speculating?

Because i have nothing to do.

Likelyhood you picked rose as town are 90%.
Maybe higher.

It seems you started this conversation assuming that Titus is town by saying you believe they are a rose. I think this is potentially weird, you have a strange perspective here.

See, this is actually a take I agree with on

Dunnstral

, their diction just feels off to me. I'd figure a townie would have a more articulate thought than "strange perspective" and actually do something with teeth here, like a vote or harder push.

:/
I just stated scum can also win if all town roses are dead
That’s been a thing in every run of this setup

I've never played this setup before but it just feels silly to me to pick rose as mafia - I'd pick gun every time

I am inclined to agree with this. Extra kills are more powerful for mafia than for town. On the other hand I've played a run of this setup where town only had 3 roses at the start and it felt pretty doomed.

The reasoning here makes sense, even though I disagree with the very premise that mafia are always going to be guns here.

The other game with 3 roses was a mafia win, after all.

I thought enchants answer was a banger

Ima shoot Ali I think

Wondering where

Ali

came from here.

Ok you got me i did in fact pick gun.

I pretended i townread wheme, so i can shot wheme in the face without being shot back but i guess it's blatant i always pick gun.


Bruh game.


So yeah. Crosskill?

The post where

Enchant's

stance on his claim and

Wheme

completely 180

VOTE: enchant
looks like a flailing wolf to me, this feels notably different from just normal Enchant scumminess

Feels slightly superficial read here, like I can see anyone coming up with this as a justification to vote

Enchant

. Am I being too harsh on

Cakez

?

Of course you can't let me shot wheme, until she wastes gun on some random townie, uhum.

I see this as attempt to powerlim me so Wheme can say "oh i joked i am in fact rose" on D2.

Posits that

Wheme

will waste a gun, but not that they're scum?

Also says that the votes are an attempt to powerlim so

Wheme

can say they lied about their claim... I am wondering what made

Enchant

want to do massclaim if they presumed who would claim is lying.

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Fair question, I'm not sure an

Enchant

-partner would give attention to this publically

Why would you shoot Wheme?

Cuz i am only town gun.

I don't believe one scum picked rose.

Same justification, only town gun can be

Enchant

... which is ???? Completely wild assessment to me. How can nobody else conceive the idea of town-gun if they themselves do?

Actually... if you are a town gun, why are you claiming instead of just shooting at night?

BeCaUsE EnChAnT NeVeR pIcK rOsE aS tOwN.

I TRIED to hide until i get my shot, i just realised that if i get wagoned to E-1, people just disbelieve me and it's blatant i am lying anyway.


So if pick rose, everyone push me for picking rose and when i do pick gun, everyone still push me, because they can't bear mind that i do have gun.

Literally unplayable.

It's not about the gun, it's about how you interacted regarding the claims and your reads.

yeah, I don't understand the drive for the D1 claims, seems senseless to me

At this point it is likely too late

The gun claims are likely either both town or 1 town 1 mafia

Mafia know everybody else is a rose

Town /maybe/ has 1 more gun hidden, assuming one of the current claims is mafia.

Hmmmmm...

On one hand, I like this post superficially because

Dunn

is giving a very real possibility of TvT here. But they aren't really doing much to caution the current suspicion alongside this. I also wonder if this post can come from an informed perspective.

I think enchant is town

K.

i think you are mafia w/ enchant

This seems unlikely

Tbh,

Dunn

, how has your

Wheme/Enchant

reads evolved and do you really think an

Enchant

flip is good here?

Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.

VOTE: SirCakez

Why?

Like I mentioned before, I don't feel that

Celebloki

said much to suggest

Enchant/Wheme

cannot be scum, so this feels like a purposeful counterwagon. The intentions behind that are less clear.

Regarding 261 by Malakittens I don't think Enchant was ever scumread for "picking gun". I do believe the reasons were: "enchant is claiming rose but would pick gun as town", "enchant is being deceptive", and "enchant is a flailing wolf". In light of that I find post 261 pretty suspicious.

DO YOU GUYS WANT TO FIND ANSWER URSELF OR WANT MY HELP

Yes

Ali’s reasoning is very weird

Still want you to explain this

I have so many thoughts I don’t want to share I am a genius

K...

Wheme's

posts aren't really giving much and that's intentional. Really helping me sort that slot... /s

VOTE: The Bulge

Interesting, I wonder where this came from, and also where the feels on

Celebloki

dissipated, was it because

Celebloki

wanted to counterwagon him and

Enchant

?

Is this your defense of eliminating

Wheme

over yourself D1...?

If you eliminate Wheme, who i will shot?!

Just let crosskill happen, fools.

Never convinced by your reasoning for killing

Wheme

Idk, Titus maybe.

K? More focus on

Titus

Enchant picking gun is NIA for me
I don’t really see why people are scumrrading enchant for it

Can you point to somebody scumreading Enchant for picking gun.

Mind meld
No one thinks that's why Enchant is scummy.

Cakez

parroting

Dunn

on something I actually had the similar perception as

Celeblok

I feel like Enchant and Wheme both being scum is almost like *too easy*? Like I feel like they would have solved this shit in scum chat or something by now. And they are both a little naturally scummy I think

I never really like these types of posts. It always feels like an easy out to backpedal when a read is correct or incorrect when convenient. The whole idea about scum solving this in their chat is WIFOM. The benefit of the doubt that

Cakez

supposes here is muddled by the previous statements, so I'm left feeling less sure on what

Cakez's

actual read of

Enchant

and

Wheme

and their wagons are.

Ali want to vote bulge with me

Another

Bulge

reference with no clear prompt from the other ISOs I've grouped here.

[Taly]

Conclusions from 509

- Able to see

Dunn

with some town motive. +Town
- Grievance with

Cakez's

posting strengthens -Town
-

Celebloki

,

Titus

,

Aristeia

,

Alisae

, and

The Bulge

are good next potential ISO groupees. Namely

Celebloki

and

Bulge

at the moment.
-

Wheme

does not make anymore sense to me, except for perhaps why they do not scumread

Celebloki

~Null
- I don't feel my suspicion on

Enchant

was absolved. ~Scum

[Enchant]

Here we have another show off of Taly.

[Taly]

So when I do ask for people to engage with me, I'm told that I should provide my own thoughts instead and that I am unproductive.

But when I do, I'm also subject to dismissal by people saying I'm showboating.

I'm being reminded why I don't play mafia often.

My 503 is a really good post to engage on if you want to dissuade me,

Enchant

.

[Taly]

Can someone do something other than disparage and trivialize my motivation.

[Enchant]

Anyone who try to convince me that something i see happening is not happening and in fact i imagining it are my enemy of this game regardless of alignment, and will be treated as such. Given:
1. I pose as rose because it's most senseble thing i can do as gun in game where i can be conftown as solo town gun picker and i see someone claiming gun, maybe to bait me, maybe it's legit town i don't care. Yes, i am very interested in counterclaiming D1 and then being shot. (It's sarcasm). I can't just shitpush wheme directly as it's as same thing as just plainly revealing a gun so pretending i buy claim is most direct and winnable way for me because i just live until N1 and shot them. THEN i can claim shot.
2. You pressure me into claiming because obviously i would't get rose as town (which is in fact INCORRECT).
3. You then say how "it's bad" and vote me.

Any post containing "No it's not like that it's your guilt Enchant" can be printed on paper and burnt and i don't care to talk about it then.
Naturally i am punished for not lurking in this game and being Enchant. And it's fucking clear.


Anyway, my idea:
I shot Wheme
Alisae shots me
You vote out alisae D2 regardless of what Wheme flip.

At minimum nails 1 scum always. And no you don't let Alicae live by being somehow convinced that mafia picked two roses if wheme flips town (SOMEHOW). I know you will throw game anyway but i will be dead so it's not my concern anymore.
MAYBE you can consider Alisae town if Wheme flips scum. Maybe. I still try to kill both.

[Enchant]

Why even do that?

Well if you vote me this day, then Alisae shots Wheme (or does not), Wheme flips and you need to vote Alisae as well.

Ergo if you don't bother any guns, situation will be resolved in shorter time than if you voted out me first.

[SirCakez]

Aristeia why do u feel so much less present d1 then last game we played together

[Taly]

When did I pressure you into claiming? I've been against claiming in the first place.

[Titus]

The Enchant wagon is stupid. Enchant's actions flow from his belief. It's also opportunistic.

[Gamma Emerald]

He literally contradicted himself

[Enchant]

When?

[Gamma Emerald]

If you are actually town gun, you never call wheme conftown.

[Enchant]

If you are actually town gun, you never call wheme conftown.

We have clear different opinions on what to do, but my goal was to not be shot.

[Enchant]

I guess i feared wrong faction lol

[Taly]

VOTE: SirCakez