Crackers! Mafia -- Game Over. See page 50

[populartajo]

Hi guys. Will reread the thread and come up with something
In the meanwhile, anyone would like to explain me the game in few words and make a brief summary of everything going on here, like why Korts has 4 votes and such?

[populartajo]

I am making notes at the same time I am reading the thread so I am going to do this the most understandable possible.

Here we go.

Page 1-4. Random stage. Notably BM, CKD and DGB making random accusations. Some CKD-BM rubbing in the first pages.
Page 5. Korts suspects rolf for picking Yos. CKD joins. Rolf likes to ask who is the most protown player. Des feels town.
Argg, CKD feels scummy in 114. And he continues until 121. Bringing non related things to make rolf look bad.
Ah, the guy notices in 124. Yeah, rolf is also prob town which makes CKD look even worse.
131 the same distracting question. I dont like how CKD keeps pushing the question: acting town vs being town.
132 CKD starts making a little sense but I think its late.
Hah, DGB agrees with me. Des and vollkan join shortly.
Kison's 138 is interesting. Will be good to look after.
Oh 139. "Noted". Noted.
CKD is fighting hard after.
Des's 145 is glorious.
Sensfan's 148 will be good to look after.
Some Kison-rolf fight, BM joins shortly, votes des, votes DGB, jokes and jokes, when is he going to learn?
Rolf's 172 is valid.
More BM random shit.
193. Hey RR you are late.
Guardian's 195. Interesting post.
Elmo's 204. Hey, dude you are also late.
210. LMAO.
Guardian and Vollkan debating about self-voting. Booring,
Nice, 220 has a vote hidden in all the sea of text. Guardian voes DGB.
Pretty much convinced both rolf and des are probtown. Not sure about Korts but CKD is prob scum.
More proofs that rolf is prob town with Elmo's birds.
Kison's 249 shows rolf unvoting. Possible backtracking. Would be good to look after.
RR feels town in 251 except for the Elmo vote.
I agree more with Elmo's list in 260 than with rolf's one.
BM's vote in 267 is retarded.
BM's 272. Rolfmao.
Vollkan interrogates rolf.
300. Fuck its like the 100th time BM votes rolf.
Ouch, some BM-rolf fbashing.
Here comes Yosarian. Lets see if I agree with him.... Yeah, partially. Votes CKD.
Korts votes BM.
Sidenote : where the fuck is CKD?
BM votes Korts. This realation seems interesting.
331. Yep, Elmo is prob the same town suffering to make a long post.
Argg, Elmo, Volkan and Yos start his mini debate theory game.
CKD votes himself. Yep, Ive seen that too.
Guardian is killed after making a lot of sense. Not sure why Elmo thinks scum did this NK but I dont think he as scum would have made that comment.
Wait. What are CKD and DGB talking about?
Vollkan and des have a nice chat. But Im too tired to look at it.
Come on. 2 more pages.
RR comes back in 378. More questions. Dont like this.
Ah, that explains it. DGB is blind.
More Vollkan-des-Yosarian chat. I am tired, will read them prob later.

[populartajo]

Conclusion

.
Either rolf and des are manipulating me like shit but they really scream town to me. DGB also felt town until he had that chat with CKD some pages ago, totally exaggerating an hypothesis the later brought to the table.
Elmo hasnt posted much but he also feels town. Gut.
BM is just being BM but slightly scummy.
Korts also I dont find him particularly scummy but there is something I dont like about him. Prob related to his stance in the rolf-CKD battle. Will reread him soon to have a better feeling about him.
Yos and Vollkan are hard to read but I expected to get a town read from them but havent. So neutral and will look closely at his post some time from now.
CKD felt scummy since page 5, pushing a weak case, and then went V/LA. When he came back he voted himsef. Yeah, he is the one I want to lynch today.
Kison at the same time also feels off sometimes, for not seeing the blatant CKD's scumminess. Add Sensefan to that group.
RR doesnt post much and when he does he generally asks questions. Not too fan of this.

[populartajo]

Triple post for the

win

vote.

Vote:CKD.

[populartajo]

Quick posting to tell you that this thread needs more CKD's lynch.

[populartajo]

Quick posting to tell you that this thread needs more CKD's lynch.

[populartajo]

Someone should give this girl an award. Rly.

[populartajo]

Kison, why dont you like CKD's wagon?

[populartajo]

vollkan is also trying way, way, way too hard to stop the ckd wagon. so yeah, you're right, vollkan is scum.

Heaven forbid somebody shouldn't agree with you

I support the motion that no one should disagree with rofl.

vollkan, how about actually making an effort to pretend to scum hunt? This game isn't the debating club, and besides, after you're dead, we're going to need to know who you were bus'ing.

Can you please provide us with a list of who is scum and who is town? Just a list. No verb.

Yeah.

[populartajo]

I dont have anything else to say. This thread needs CKD lycnhed. Its the most optymal lynch I can think after my reread.
Deflecting much? And why did you pick me over other people who doesnt even have other posts? Whats your opinion of CKD?

[populartajo]

CKD'S lycnh is optymal for me because I think that CKD has more prob of turning scum than Korts.
I love u too, Korts but what did that last post try to accomplish besides avoiding my questions?

[populartajo]

We can wait. In the meanwhile, why I am different than other quality posters in this game?

[populartajo]

I pointed to other players because it seemed strange that you only singled me for not posting a decent thing lately. You've explained why. Meh, dont know if I buy it but It seemed to me like you were deflecting people's attention to me when, again, Im not the only one not posting decently lately.
Tell me, is it fair for me to ask me a question like that? Yes or no and why?
Waiting for your CKD read and vote, hopefully.

[populartajo]

The fact that Volkan and Yos still fill this thread with walls of text makes me dislike rereading this game already.
I thought Yos was a good reasoner but some points against des make me worry about this.
Mafia isnt that hard, really. What CKD did at the beginning of the game is a classic scumtell and thats why its the most optymal lynch right now.
I can understand what Kison is talking about but when I think Im prob right in something I am not going to hear others as long as they dont give me a good damn reason to change my mind.

[populartajo]

Classic scumtell was pushing for a weak case (rolf), bringing unnecessary things or weak arguments to discussion.
The SK discussion is an unnecessary thing.
131 is a good example of pushing weak arguments.
I also feel what rolf is feeling in those first pages about des. Ask everyone. I would be ext surprised if Des comes up scum.
You ask how rolf thinks des is town in page 3. Tell me when rolf became obvscum to you? Your vote was based in a case or in gut?

Also, non related stuff, when the hell did you say that I played badly in Nice Shot?

[populartajo]

Im here and still happy with my vote but I can vote for BM if you people want.

[populartajo]

CKD and Kison both vanillas. Meh. Will reread the game knowing this.
For now, the most possible thing is prob one scum in the CKD wagon.
Still thinking that rolf is town. I can understand why he pushed that wagon cuz I did it too. Im thinking this CKD and friends vs rolf and friend thing is a town vs town fight with some infiltrators and some scum avoiding direct implicaton
Regarding, Sens, Not so happy lynching a lurker. Id prefer a replacement or massive prodding.
..............
Im happy with this.

Vote : BM

DGB has hypnotized me with his new santa hat and BM is making no sense. Also, for some reason, he wasnt reading the game and its bringing dumb scenarios to make DGB look bad. Never knew what was his real stance in the CKD-rolf affair.

[populartajo]

BM, some players choose not to have their names show on the online list.

WIFOM I know, but why would Yosarian, if he did the kill, draw attention to himself by posting around the time of the kill? Do we know whether there was a delay between the kill order and the mod executing the order? Was Kison a menace to Yos's continued survival?

I dont know why listening to this woman makes me have an erection.

[populartajo]

Just for the record, BM also used this tactic in Adel's Nice Shot. Want to take a guess about his alignment?

[populartajo]

Thx for that BM.
This means I have to evaluate some things.
Will reread and come up with something decent tomorrow.

[populartajo]

Hai, FL!

[populartajo]

Thats why yos was feeling a bit weak when reasoning against vollkan and des.
I dont know, rolf. Yos messed twice with Korts' name. I mean, if they were scumpartners he would think twice before confusing him with Kison, right?

[populartajo]

OH, I only just noticed that Yos is now dead, was a mafiate, and was a Godfather.

I laid back from the game for a while because I felt I was interfering with the scum's natural flow of bus'ing. And I had noticed that some players were bus'ing Yos, but Yos did not seem scummy to me.

Chief Yos bus'er: vollkan.

unvote, vote: vollkan

RLY?
I think everybody should go back, reread Korts and find out if their claim makes sense. Im saying verybody because I dont have the time right now to do it.
Rolf, why do you believe him?

[populartajo]

Well, if Korts is indeed a vig then it would be helpful if he stoped trusting his gut since we can use him as a second lynch, right?
What are the odds of two mafia groups, taking in count the role Yos had?
This FL-Vollkan thing smells bad, like the Yos-Vollkan thing did.
I promisse Ill reread this soon and come back with at least one scum. Apparently, Korts' decisions dont make much sense so Id like that he, plz, points out his breadcrumbs and precise quotes of the players he killed that finally decided their respective fates.

[populartajo]

RR, welcome to the townies club.
After that posts, Korts is screaming either SK or second mafia group, if he indeed killed Yos.
Yos and Kison, I can buy discarding the problems with vig timing. The Guardian kill is the one that makes me wonder its protown motives, specially as Guardian was screaming that a kill would eventually generate a lynch.
And why did you claim, did anyone ask?
But if youre telling the truth, we'll know eventually. I say we keep him alive, use his kill as a second lynch and shotgun some mafias in the way.
So des, rolf, RR and apparently DGB are probtownies, leaving an interesting amount of players to look right now.
Vollkan, Sensfan (FL) and Elmo.
Thoughts of these players?

[populartajo]

Adel, I think RR isnt voting anymore.
I like Elmo's last post.

Unvote Vote : Vollkan.

I think there is a big chance that either he or FL, if not both, are scum.
Claim, plz.

[populartajo]

L-1, BTW.

[populartajo]

Damn, sorry for the triple post.
If Vollkan isnt scum and if scum hasnt killed yet then I can autolynch vollkan if they decide to kill right now.

Unvote.

But I think he should claim, anyways.
Adel, also I think the number of nonvoters is off.

[populartajo]

Des, Ill try to do one soon.
TBH, I had at some point of my replacing reread, the intuition that this Yos-Vollkan debate was something very illogical and very weird. Ill reread that again to find out why I had that feeling.
This is pretty much between Vollkan and FL. With the incredible amount of townie reads I have in this game, I think that one is prob scum if not both.
For the record, I disagree with the Elmo hate. Rolf and Korts, explain pluz.

[populartajo]

Vollkan, Im admitting I am a lazy bastard and just thought that one (if not both) of you and FL had to be scum since I have townie and neutral reads from other players.
I promissed a reread, dont worry, and Im going to do it tomorrow but it would be helpful if both of you present concisely your cases against each other.
Dont lynch anyone in the meanwhile.

[populartajo]

Why'd you think Tajo's scum, Rabbit? He seems townish to me. Not contributing tonnes, but what is there reads town. I suppose that haven't seen him as scum, and I only played with him once, like a year ago in a newbie game. But I'm more confident about him than a bunch of other people.

Ever since his entry post he seems to happy sticking to the backround, posting little substance that almost always goes along with popular opinion. I get this feeling he doesn't really care much about who gets lynched, which is very different from the town-tajo I played with who seemed much more emotionally invested in the game.

I usually get more involved in small games and in games near to Lylo. Nice Shot Mafia is a perfect example of this and you can ask des if it helps you increase your possibilities of finding scum..

[populartajo]

RR, it was prob me. I might be wrong but if Korts is indeed SK/comp vig and the scum decides to kill we only have 8 players alive, autolynching FL immediately with your vote, right?

[populartajo]

RR, it was prob me. I might be wrong but if Korts is indeed SK/comp vig and the scum decides to kill we only have 8 players alive, autolynching FL immediately with your vote, right?

Korts already killed today. We have 9 alive.

But if scum kills, what do you think its going to happen?

[populartajo]

Shit you are right. I thought it would be 4 to lynch.

Unvote Vote:FL.

Townie reads, Vollkan and FL top suspects, etc.

[populartajo]

Woot I hammered scum.
Why am I not confirmed?

[populartajo]

Woot I hammered scum.
Why am I not confirmed?

Why do you think that would confirm you?

I never said that would confirm me.
Its like all are having a party of confirmed townies for suspecting FL and Im not invited when she was my top suspect (along with Vollkan) for a long time.

[populartajo]

Some of your strong read townies were also in both wagons and voted for vollkan also. Im only a sad consequence of a series of unfortunate events. (not noticing that it was still 5 to lynch).
We are in good shape though and we have a good amount of strong protown players. Id rather lynch someone else since I know Im town but I can understand if you guys want to lynch me or Kortsvigged anyways.

[populartajo]

Well played, rolf.
I found this regarding Elmo.

FL feels pretty townish

upon entry. I remember that Sens response felt decent, too. (Also, I since learned that Sens had RL issues, I think, which changes the interpretation of the lurking a bit.) Hum. Yos pressing on Sensfan seens opportunistic enough that I give her slight town points for it.

It's irritating, because I seem to keep saying X isn't strong enough, Y isn't strong enough, but I'd much rather do that than go a mile a minute in the wrong direction.

I think FL is probably the person I have the weakest read on

, right now... the quote above means I'm probably going to be rereading (again) Sens/her next.

Bolded for emphasis.
I think Elmo is a more possible scumpartner than Vollkan now that Yos and FL have both come up scum and I think busing that hard from both sides is a little crazy. However, since I know Im town and DGB, des and RR have strong protwon reads Im thinking Korts should vig/kill Elmo today.

Vig/Kill: Elmo.
Vote:Vollkan.

Im voting Vollkan since its the only option I have left if Elmo comes up town.

[populartajo]

Im here. Sorry for my sudden absence.
I skimmed the last three pages and Vollkan was lynched (yey, was right again) and now Im thinking something I read somewhere, I think it was des. If Korts is a SK then I think its time to lynch him since we either win or we get rid of a possible complicate daykill.
I can start claiming and that matches my offer to lynch me if its still safe to do it. Im vanilla.

Vote:Korts.

I still think all my town reads are townies and that Im inclined to believe Elmo for that breadcrumb in the exclamation mark next to BM.
Either that or Im playing with a genius in the scum side.
Im at work right now and should be able to reread tomorrow. Just thought you would need my thoughts.

[populartajo]

Prob V/LA since today until after Christmas, maybe more.

[populartajo]

There is not much I can argue about when my lynch is only a consequence of maximizing the odds for finding scum.
So yeah Im ok with my lynch as long you dont screw it tomorrow.
In the other hand, if RR or des, or even DGB are scum Im going to nominate one of them for an award.

[populartajo]

Im getting a little paranoid with different people as I really expected people like des, Elmo, RR and DGB to play optimally. I know Im town so if one of these guys is scum then Im pretty much giving him/her the win with my(our) lazy attitude.
My problem with the plan is why dont we lynch our source of an unwanted kill tomorrow (Korts) rather than someone who doesnt make sense as scum. (me)?
If we lynch Korts and if we assume a 4 team scumgroup then there would only be one scum left with 5-4 players alive and many scum connections waiting to be analyzed.
My question here is what happened to scumhunting?
I know I might sound a little paranoid but if the idea is maximizing the odds of winning then why RR and des, even me, are assuming that the other is town or genious scum?

[populartajo]

Des, to help you with you reread, I pushed either FL or volkan as scum yesterday, my supposed scumpartners.
I think I need to reread RR since I definitely think you are 100% town, I believe Elmo's breadcrumbs and I find DBG-FL pretty hard to believe as scumpair.

[populartajo]

RR, were you confirmed at some point in the game?

[populartajo]

In what possible scenario are you scum? 2 GFs right?
Do you think Elmo is telling the truth?
Thoughts of DGB?

[populartajo]

I was just going to post that Korts is a very active poster.
If we are looking about worst scenarios and risking a win to a hidden scum then Korts

has

to be one of them.
I find unlikely that we have another scum in the setup TBH but in all scenarios we are getting rid of an unwanted death and a very very likely SK.
I dont like how many theories are considering me as scum. I know its for prob reasons but the only thing that indicates that Im scum that I can think is that I made a mistake before hammering FL, my main suspect with vollkan, the other scum.
Many things could be said about other players and you all are not even considering that prob.

[populartajo]

Hmm. Tajo, if you assume I'm town, and that we'd lynch Korts-SK, Des would be killed, and RR+DGB would lynch me for the town loss tomorrow, which do you think is better?

Des, if we lynch Korts, then we'd have five alive tomorrow; minus the mafia kill, that puts us with four alive in LyLo. So we couldn't practically lynch me to confirm my results, right?

It's interesting to note there isn't actually an endgaming mechanic that I can see, but it's pretty much the same, I think.

So do you think DGB is scum?

[populartajo]

Just pointing out that if Korts is the only mafia left we are going to look very funny postgame.

[populartajo]

No, I think she's town; but pretty much every other realistic scenario leads to a town win. Meh.

Also, yeah, I think Adel is probably laughing her ass off. How long have we been at this, now?

So if you think shes town with RR town also who is the other scum left? Me?

[populartajo]

I bet many of you dont even think Im scum.
Just thinking why dont we try this exercise with DGB?

[populartajo]

I think RR or Elmo have a reason to think DGB is more prob town than me but I cant find it. I know these guys are around so correct me if Im wrong.

Unvote Vote DGB.

[populartajo]

On top of this, that Korts hasn't been involved in this discussion increases the chances of him being anti-town. As town, I would expect him to be contributing, looking for the last scum since, as a Vig, he'd

know

that there's Mafia left alive. Instead, he's mostly stopped posting altogether.

Excellent point.

Excellent timing, as you would say.
Opinions of the current plan and such?

[populartajo]

Well, DGB. I was thinking the same thing but if Korts is the only mafia left (SK) or Elmo is lying then tomorrow des, RR and the other prob townie between you and me should lynch any of them according to actions/claim.
The only scenario we are talking right now is which of us has more probs of being a hidden scum that wrecks the town tomorrow if Korts is indeed the SK.

[populartajo]

Good luck town. Lets hope for the best scenario tomorrow.

[populartajo]

Conclusion

.
Either rolf and des are manipulating me like shit but they really scream town to me. DGB also felt town until he had that chat with CKD some pages ago, totally exaggerating an hypothesis the later brought to the table.
Elmo hasnt posted much but he also feels town. Gut.
BM is just being BM but slightly scummy.
Korts also I dont find him particularly scummy but there is something I dont like about him. Prob related to his stance in the rolf-CKD battle. Will reread him soon to have a better feeling about him.
Yos and Vollkan are hard to read but I expected to get a town read from them but havent. So neutral and will look closely at his post some time from now.
CKD felt scummy since page 5, pushing a weak case, and then went V/LA. When he came back he voted himsef. Yeah, he is the one I want to lynch today.
Kison at the same time also feels off sometimes, for not seeing the blatant CKD's scumminess. Add Sensefan to that group.
RR doesnt post much and when he does he generally asks questions. Not too fan of this.

this was populartajo's third post in the game. He nailed it.

Yey! GG town!
The time the last day lasted is a proof that how this town worked effectively to maximize the odds of winning the game. Funny how all got paranoid at some point of the day.
I think this is the best town Ive seen since my arrival here. Des played perfectly and it was obvious he was going to attract doc protection. He has some amazing posts D1. RR also was excellent after D2. Good job with the protections, rolf. Finally, its a good thing CKD acted like he did since it pretty much helped me to have that nice read of everyone I had above.

[populartajo]

My strong protown reads (des and rolf, even DGB) came from their respective analysis of the CKD wagon.
Especially des' analysis of the situation was what prob led to the doc protections and posterior attempts to kill him.
So I wouldnt say CKD's lynch was useless.
And I still think he was mildly scummy not so much for his behaviour that started making sense after some pages of weak attacks. He was attacking someone I thought was pretty much town (insert easy target theory and avoidance to see town behaviour theory, here)

[populartajo]

how did you get strong town vibes from rolf? he refused to answer questions, was coy and was responsible for hanging me (town). I understand now why he stated des was so town" but didnt back it up with anything...because (and I was right) it was bullshit...he WAS just trying to draw a kill on des so he could block...it wasnt really based on anything. It was a good play actually, but it pinged my radar as scummy.

I dont know what exactly made me think rolf couldnt be scum now that I quick reread for an answer. It was pretty much gut combined with the idea that I didnt think rolfscum would have pushed "des is town" so hard with the possibility of a doctor in the setup. When you started attacking him I immediately sided with him since you cant blame us (the townies that supported your wagon) for considering your behaviour scummy towards him. There were some weak attacks and rolf was like fighting them not optimally but really really in a townie manner. Thats it basically.
Just curious, at some point, did you think des was scum?

[populartajo]

I'll send pm invite/reminders to any of you that are interested in playing again

*raises hand*

/in

If you consider me worthy.