Read Your Role Mafia - Game Over

[Electra]

I'm pretty sure this is my favorite type of game.

vote: Sensfan

for not posting yet

[Electra]

MafiaSSK -- Please don't make us read other minis to try to figure out what you personally saw. Summarize or quote whatever it is you want to add. (Except if the game's still running, in which case...probably shouldn't have been mentioned in the first place.)

Kay. he was town in both games and acted WAY differently.

Can you describe the differences?

PS. sorry for lack of posting, I'm too used to going to little italy, and not theme park.

[Electra]

Okay, I promise to post more from now on, if I can remember this forum.

But anyway, I don't find ooba suspicious right now, as he started the game by saying that he didn't want to random vote, which I don't think scum would have done. It's too unnecessary when scum can just vote and blend in.

I also find it interesting that the charter bandwagon lost steam very quickly - while I'd like MafiaSSK to be more specific, I think there's some value to whatever meta he's seen. I also think that charter's posts, especially the one of being sure that SensFan is town, is scummy.

So

unvote, vote: charter

[Electra]

ooba's posts have been not anti-town to me, in fact he has defended himself very well and for now i am going to

unvote ooba

I am still not sold on the charter wagon right now, in fact I am not really liking Electra's vote on charter.

Okay, I promise to post more from now on, if I can remember this forum.

But anyway, I don't find ooba suspicious right now, as he started the game by saying that he didn't want to random vote, which I don't think scum would have done. It's too unnecessary when scum can just vote and blend in.

I also find it interesting that the charter bandwagon lost steam very quickly - while I'd like MafiaSSK to be more specific, I think there's some value to whatever meta he's seen. I also think that charter's posts, especially the one of being sure that SensFan is town, is scummy.

So

unvote, vote: charter

For her third post of the game (one which she apparently can't even remember) she jumps onto the biggest wagon, and with little reasoning. She says "some value to

whatever

meta he's (mafiassk) seen." Whatever meta doesn't sound to me like she has read it, understood it, and completely agrees with it. This seems more like a "Oh crap i am active lurking/not paying attention. Um Um let's see... charter has alot of votes on him, i'll just go with that."

FoS Electra

until I get better clarification of her post.

I don't really get your complaint, I reread the thread and found charter to be most suspicious currently. So did other people, apparently, that's why he has a bandwagon on him. Also, ooba has a lot of votes on him as well, and I specifically said that I didn't find him suspicious.

In terms of the meta statement, I think that there is some value to meta, and I would like him to be more specific, but it's not the main justification behind my vote. The point is that because I think there's some value to it, SSK should elaborate on it.

[Electra]

I also find it interesting that the charter bandwagon lost steam very quickly - while I'd like MafiaSSK to be more specific, I think there's some value to whatever meta he's seen. I also think that charter's posts, especially the one of being sure that SensFan is town, is scummy.

So

unvote, vote: charter

Let me get this straight. So my meta read on Sens is that he is town, and using that is scummy. MafiaSSK's meta read on me is that I am scum, and using that is the best course of action? How is the situation any different?

Same thing for the others who hold this belief.

There's a difference between meta read of town vs meta read of scum. You can play the same way as town and scum, but if you're playing in a different way, then you're more likely to be opposite.

So it's something like...

If A (plays differently), then B (opposite alignments).
But it's not necessarily if B, then A. So you can have opposite alignments but play the same.

That said, SSK, there's nothing for you to catch up on. Mainly we're waiting for more specifics.

[Electra]

What really does is for me is that he came, posted, completely ignored us, and left.

unvote: charter, vote: MafiaSSK

That's L-2.

[Electra]

I think that MafiaSSK isn't a solid lynch. Unfortunately, neither is any of the cases brought up so far. Charter's meta hasn't panned through. ooba's case never went anywhere.

I have deep problems with Electra the Oppurtunist, though. She never posts except to jump on a potential bandwagon with weak reasoning that amounts to 'everything everyone else said'. Post 184 and Post 206 seems like weak reasoning to me. She never really stated why she thought charter was a good lynch. The minute the charter wagon got weak, she jumped on a new wagon, MafiaSSK. And while his lurking is definitely to be considered, I think Electra is taking advantage of various bandwagons.

Vote: Electra

I don't think I have any vote on anyone else currently...

The charter wagon never got weak. I moved off it when it had 4 votes to another one that had 3-->4 votes. The point is that the game was stagnating, and I also explained what made me vote him - the fact that he's been posting but completely ignoring us. If SSK responds with something reasonable, I'll be happy to move back to charter, but it doesn't looks like he will.

Also I've posted plenty without voting, thanks.

[Electra]

I don't think SSK is mafia, so while this is a disappointing result, there's no point in continuing to vote him. So

unvote

Knowing that our deadline is coming up soon, and the day having not gotten very far, what does everyone think about a no lynch? I don't know if it's new meta or something to hate no lynches, but considering the nature of the game, where probably a larger percentage of town has roles than normal, it might be best to let everyone get through the first night. At least I am not confident enough in anyone being scum that I'm willing to pursue them with 3 days left til deadline.

[Electra]

I don't think SSK is mafia, so while this is a disappointing result, there's no point in continuing to vote him. So

unvote

Knowing that our deadline is coming up soon, and the day having not gotten very far, what does everyone think about a no lynch? I don't know if it's new meta or something to hate no lynches, but considering the nature of the game, where probably a larger percentage of town has roles than normal, it might be best to let everyone get through the first night. At least I am not confident enough in anyone being scum that I'm willing to pursue them with 3 days left til deadline.

I'm sorry, but given your past record, I just think you may be scum. First, you jump onto two bandwagons, and now you're asking for a no lynch?

My scum-dar is going nuts.

What past record?

If I were scum I would certainly not do something as controversial as suggest a no lynch. (No one bring up WIFOM please, I hate that term. Mafia became a worse game when it appeared.) But since this is a day start, then I'm not as opposed to it as I would be in other situations.

I don't think SSK is scum because he keeps commenting about forgetting the game and stuff like that. I have that problem too sometimes, but generally I'll only say so when I'm town. I only voted him because I wanted to get his input, so I don't see how it's jumping on a bandwagon, since I never intended to lynch him.

[Electra]

If I were scum I would certainly not do something as controversial as suggest a no lynch. (No one bring up WIFOM please, I hate that term. Mafia became a worse game when it appeared.)

Hate to break it to you, but that's WIFOM.

No, it's not.

If I suggest no lynch, then people are going to find me suspicious for bringing up no lynch. Even if they don't find me suspicious for it, they're not going to find me any less suspicious than they would if I had not brought it up in the first place. Therefore, there's no benefit to suggesting no lynch unless I'm town and I believe it might be the best course of action.

[Electra]

Yes, it is.

And you are focusing on the wrong aspect of what you said. It is not about the no lynch part. Saying what you would do if you were scum is WIFOM out the wazoo. You are basically claiming that you expect us to believe that you aren't scum because you did something that you knew people would find suspicious, which you claim you wouldn't do as scum.

No. I'm saying that bringing up no lynch is not suspicious. If I were using no lynch to clear other suspicions, then that would be WIFOM, but I'm not, I'm just saying that bringing up no lynch itself is not suspicious. I'm not saying that bringing it up makes me any more of a town, but it does not make me any scummier.

The reason I hate WIFOM is that people throw it around first of all, without paying attention to whether it applies, and second of all, in most situations, you can pretty much guess which one is going to happen so by using WIFOM, you're just ignoring evidence.

As for claiming, I believe full claims are always good, but it's up to the townie to hold back things that might be beneficial to the town as a result.

[Electra]

I would also like a claim from SocioPath. :p

Also, ooba, it's true that SSK did what you said he did, but why does that make him scummier? It just makes him annoying. Generally the most annoying people aren't scum.

[Electra]

jelly, I unvoted SSK.

Mod Note: Fixed, and thank you.

[Electra]

Electra, do you think SocioPath is town or scum?

Honestly, I was mainly hoping that he was going to claim vanilla, which would obviously be a fake claim since from the intro post I'd assume that vanillas all get the same PM.

I read through his posts before he claimed, and the nature of his posts seemed slightly scummy, but not enough to mean anything.

However, I now think he's scum, so

vote:sociopath

The first thing is his semi-claim. He claimed that he had an ability when pressed for a claim. This is clearly an attempt at stalling while he thinks up a role claim. The way he claimed it also makes it look like he has some sort of powerful role "I'll claim this: if it hasn't been apparent, I'm not a townie. " Then he claims an essentially useless, one shot ability. I fail to see a reason for his ability to be one shot considering the limited application of it. On the other hand, it's extremely easy to fake the one result that he needs. So I'm not buying it.

On the subject of SSK, I find it unlikely that Mafia says things like "do whatever you want, lynch me." Town is much more likely to do something like that, or an SK. The reason is that town and sk have no ties, if they get lynched, then they can just be like, whatever, the town was dumb. In terms of Mafia, they would be letting their partners down if they threw in the towel, so it's just socially less acceptable. :p

[Electra]

On the subject of SSK, I find it unlikely that Mafia says things like "do whatever you want, lynch me." Town is much more likely to do something like that, or an SK. The reason is that town and sk have no ties, if they get lynched, then they can just be like, whatever, the town was dumb. In terms of Mafia, they would be letting their partners down if they threw in the towel, so it's just socially less acceptable. :p

I'm sorry, but this IS WIFOM. I personally pride myself on being able to have no ties to my partners no matter how badly I play. I would likely welcome death if I thought it was imminent, part to play on this naivety that only townies/SKs are willing to say "Ok, lynch me", and part to confuse the hell out of town when I flip.

The point is, no one besides me thinks that Mafia is less likely to do this, so it's not going to confuse anyone else, so Mafia are still less likely to do it. :p

I just feel like everyone's so in love with the concept of WIFOM that they ignore that sometimes Mafia and town ARE more likely to do specific things. But I don't really want to argue about this, this is just why I don't find SSK to be scummy.

[Electra]

Unvote, vote Sociopath

I want an explanation of this vote.

He's obviously given up on playing this game and intended to move things to night. He already said that he's fine with his own lynch, so he's probably not going to give any explanation.

I don't really understand people saying they're voting him solely for the claim and now that he's claimed, it's fine. Would you believe him if he claimed unnightkillable doctor?

[Electra]

@ Seraphim - my voting for Sociopath was first based on his assumption that townies have unique special notes, then his claim which I did not think would be in the game, since it just seemed _so_ useless. (Which I guess it was supposed to be.) If he had not claimed one shot, I might have believed him.

I feel that SSK is the correct lynch today, barring any surprising developments. There's a reason that it's not a typical survivor strategy to just claim survivor. If you're not protown, you're against us. :p

I also find charter suspicious for being very pro-Sociopath near the end of yesterday- he talked about not finding SP suspicious and agreeing with him and such - it would be a mafia thing to do since he knew that SP would turn up townie.

vote: mafiassk

[Electra]

Wow, you think SSK and Yaw are scumbuddies so you vote me? That makes a lot of sense.

[Electra]

@ Yaw - My statement that there was some worth to SSK's meta had nothing to do with him as a person or player. It basically just had to do with the fact that he claimed to have useful meta so I thought it was worthwhile to look at it.

And I think Seraphim's "I just think you may be scum" is meant in a confident way- try rephrasing it to "I think you just may be scum", is what I believe he meant by it.

[Electra]

That rephrasing is still wishy-washy. :p

Have you played with SSK before, or read any games he's been in? Would you react similarly if anyone else in this game claimed to have meta information on another player?

Nope. Probably, so long as they presented it in a similar way- SSK said it very confidently, and when asked about it initially gave specific games where his meta came from. Of course, when probed, it deteriorated, but generally I don't think people are as confident about meta as he was.

[Electra]

Yay for protown vigilantes, maybe?

I want to ask a question - mainly,

do you think that SensFan is likely to be town?

You can answer in and out of the context that charter is Mafia.

For me, I feel like he reads as town, but in addition to that, I find charter's statement of "I'm pretty sure sensfan is town" to indicate that he would be more likely than not. It's a typical Mafia thing to do to say this about someone you know is town, as a way of buddying up to the townsperson and also in case Sens is lynched, it would be an i-told-you-so.

Anyway,

vote:Seraphim

. I have reason to believe you may be scum, and so I would like a claim from you.

[Electra]

Uh... when I see roles that are antitown being killed, I like to hope that there are protown vigs. I know that it's probably actually an SK, but I have wishful thinking.

@Seraphim - Don't bother with a case on me, I have a much better case on you. I need more responses about the SensFan thing though.

[Electra]

omg, you guys are so annoying. That's what I actually thought.

Anyway, I will claim since no one wants to respond to me. I'm a cop, I know that Sens and Seraphim are not the same alignment, and I think that Sens is town. Hence I find Seraphim to be scum. His claim of vanilla does nothing for me.

[Electra]

You were at L-3. Did you REALLY need to claim?

I didn't claim because of votes, I claimed because I have a result?

[Electra]

I didn't claim because of votes, I claimed because I have a result?

Then why didn't you claim earlier when you first posted if it's so important?

Because it doesn't say that Seraphim is scum, I am deducing it based off my assumption that Sens is town and I wanted other people's opinions on this issue before I claimed but no one responded besides Seraphim, and there was no point to just sitting here waiting for nothing.

[Electra]

Every night I submit a name and I get told if the person I submitted is the same alignment as the last person I submitted. The first night I get told that it's not the same, but since I don't have a submission before that, it's meaningless.

Night 1: Sens
Night 2: Seraphim - not same

[Electra]

I can't target myself.

@ Sens - Obviously it's a weird mechanic, are you surprised considering the game? You just don't like me. Why is the first target a poor choice? I chose you because I thought you were likely to be town and therefore a good base point for investigations.

[Electra]

I can't target myself.

@ Sens - Obviously it's a weird mechanic, are you surprised considering the game? You just don't like me. Why is the first target a poor choice? I chose you because I thought you were likely to be town and therefore a good base point for investigations.

I find it very weird and useless. I also am finding it incredibly likely that you are Scum looking to grab 2 mislynches.

Oh, and way to answer to my request for the EXACT mechanics, then when others point out the lack of logic behind your choices, add another restriction...

You don't think the doc was very weird and useless and too? And the role that was "pretty much useless"?

Two mislynches?

In other words, you think Seraphim is town now? This doesn't make any sense to me. The only way you would know this is if you were scum and didn't want a lynch of Seraphim turning up town to equal a lynch for you the next day.

Also, I should think it's pretty obvious that I wouldn't be able to target myself. What roles can target themselves?

[Electra]

@ forbidden -
I'm not sure if I want to completely rethink my opinion of Sens yet, but his reaction is definitely scum-ish and Seraphim's reaction so far has been more town. Of course Seraphim had the luxury of reacting after several people responded.

I am confused by Sens's reaction because he voted Seraphim yesterday, indicating that he thought Seraphim was scum. If he were town, then my claim should be the nail in the coffin or whatever that phrase is - he should take this as Seraphim definitely being scum. However, he's attacking me instead. I can't really think of a reason for him to do so if he were town.

@ Seraphim - My role does indeed have have a name, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to claim it (does it count as quoting the role PM?). It has the word cop in it though.

Not sure if Electra has really helped much here. First, charter could have tried to give Sens a townie pass incase he (charter) got lynched people could go back and say "Oh charter said he thought sens was townie and was trying to buddy up" much like Electra did. Electra's post also shows that (if she is telling the truth) that sens and serph are not of the same alignment, but it is not stated what aligenment either of them are, just that they are different. If we lynch one and said person turns town, then scum can get a kill in before their mate is lynched the next day. Or as Sens said Electra can be pulling off a gambit here, by lynching one and setting up the other person for the next days lynch by saying if one dies and is town the other is the opposite aligenment.

I think tomorrow doesn't matter as much as you think. The doctor equivalent is dead, and I would assume that I'm pretty much the cop equivalent, so the best choice for Mafia to kill would be me.

[Electra]

I definitely was not aware that it became the standard to include 'I can't target myself' in a role claim. To avoid any future confusion, I also can't target dead players, players not in this game, the mod, celebrities, and trees.

@ Sens - Do you think Seraphim is town now, then?

[Electra]

@ Sens - Do you think Seraphim is town now, then?

I have no idea. I just don't like your claim.

I'm asking you what you think not what you know.

Also, you don't like my claim, what does that mean? That you don't believe it? If you don't believe it but you think Seraphim is scum, that makes no sense.

You need to make a much longer and more in depth post. You haven't expressed any thoughts about most of the players and what few thoughts you've given have been short and inconsistent.

@ Seraphim's post - To me, it says pretty much nothing. It seems scummy because it's the post he "promised" but he comes up with no new conclusions, plus it's not a very good analysis. He says three suspects but doesn't express anything definite at all.

I do think Wolf is suspicious for the listed reasons, but if Seraphim is scum, then he could be bringing Wolf up as a form of distancing. Similarly, Wolf could be bussing Seraphim.

I want to hear more from Empking, Sens, and Tamuz on the entire situation. It doesn't cut it to just talk about one aspect of my role claim.

By the way, it's not just a doctor - in general, cops can't investigate themselves. (Think about cops with varying sanities - what would be the point of this if they could just check themselves?) Also roleblockers can't block themselves or it would be a neverending loop. :p I fail to see how this nitpicking tells us anything, since it is not a scum tell or a town tell.

[Electra]

Also, you don't like my claim, what does that mean? That you don't believe it? If you don't believe it but you think Seraphim is scum, that makes no sense.

This is just plain incorrect, and I'm sure you know it.

What is incorrect? I am not saying something that could _possibly_ be incorrect. I'm asking you questions.

You have made like 8 posts that are extremely short and have yet to address anything.

I don't think Seraphim is cleared, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense for you to be a serial killer. This would also explain charter's post - I don't think he would do it if you were scum with him, but if he thought you were town, then it would make sense. It would definitely explain your reluctance to address this situation because unless Seraphim is scum, a lynching of any of us would result in a lynching of you and you can't win unless you are alive at the end.

[Electra]

I also think that he has a good reason to disbelieve the claim.

Why?

What reason is there to disbelieve the claim?

Just pointing out that I essentially claimed cop for this game and I haven't been counterclaimed.

[Electra]

Just pointing out that I essentially claimed cop for this game and I haven't been counterclaimed.

Just pointing out that means shit all.

Why?

You continue to make short posts that address nothing and have no backing and are just plain rude.

You say you're busy but apparently this doesn't keep you from being on Mafiascum, it just keeps you from posting any content.

unvote

,

vote:SensFan

Welcome to L-1.

[Electra]

I also think that he has a good reason to disbelieve the claim.

Why?

What reason is there to disbelieve the claim?

Just pointing out that I essentially claimed cop for this game and I haven't been counterclaimed.

The fact that you added to your exact role claim when people mentioned mistakes.

I added something that I thought was obvious already. As I've said, what reason would you have to believe that my role could target itself when the vast majority of roles cannot do so?

[Electra]

I personally believe Electra's claim

Any particular reason you believe a prematre, unprompted, claim of vague investigative role that requires two lynches to prove?

What more suspicious?

Situation A:

People: random stuff
Electra: Hey guys I have a result that might be useful to the town!

Situation B:

People: OMG ELECTRA DIE DIE SCUM CLAIM
Electra: Hey, I'm a cop also I have investigation results that might be helpful but I didn't feel like mentioning it earlier.


@ Tamuz - I had to reread your post several times to make sense of it. I'm not sure about Shadowgirl's modkill - while it did say she could be modkilled, it told her what would cause this, and so I think she would probably prevent it?

As for saying different alignments... Seraphim has claimed vanilla. Sens has yet to claim, but at this point, if he claims a role with a weird alignment, I will find this very suspicious since he completely does not believe my claim.

It's not a matter of testing exactly. It's about deciding who is more suspicious. We shouldn't lynch blindly, I just thought this would help us narrow down our options.

Now I actually have a new suggestion.

Is there any one else the town finds particularly suspicious enough to lynch? I have my own opinions about other members of the town, but I want to know what other people think.

There is the option of lynching none of Seraphim, me, or Sens, if we are decently sure about someone else that's scum.

Then:

1) If the Mafia kills me, I am confirmed, and you can continue to decide between Seraphim and Sens with more certainty.
2) If the Mafia does not kill me, then I will have a new investigation for tomorrow which will improve the quality of the information we have.

[Electra]

I have my own opinions about other members of the town, but I want to know what other people think.

Wanting to fit in much?

Rude much?

Really, your defense is just more rehashing on the whole I can't target myself thing? Not only that, but you have failed to give any reason that it does matter. Also, while you requested a 100% role claim, that does not mean I have to comply. It wasn't intentional for me to not include the part about not targeting myself (I didn't even think about that stipulation when I was claiming) but assuming I have some other part in my role, for example, if mafia targets me for a kill, they get an extra night kill, I certainly would not claim that because there is no reason for the town to know this and the information is only beneficial for the mafia. Also, there is no point to saying that I was holding anything back, one, because if I said this, then the natural response would be to demand what I'm holding back, and two, in this case, I didn't consider this to be holding something back.

I'm really not seeing how this is important still, and I'm certainly not seeing why this specifically would cause anyone to not believe my claim.

My PM does indeed say that I can't target myself. Does that matter?

[Electra]

Hm...

As far as I can tell, it's too risky for Sens to claim that Caboose has a power role, however it's true that Sens could be a Mafia role.

What were your reasonings for each of your night choices?

Paraphrasing my role PM:

Which-of-these-is-not-like-the-other Cop

Sesame street references.
I can check one player every night, not myself, I will either get exact same or not same, first investigation will get not same,

I win with town and stuff

Enjoy the game

There's more elaboration of my role in the special notes

[Electra]

I am reluctant to lynch SensFan because he claimed a fairly useful power role.

I feel like logically, of the two, Seraphim is the best lynch - if he's town, then sad, but we do know Sens is scum. If we lynch Sens, and he's telling the truth, then we lost a good power role.

However, I am reluctant to pick between the two because if it goes incorrectly, it's very easy for the consensus to be to vote me the next day, and then I'm fairly certain the town loses. (assuming 8 players left, 2 night kills and 2 incorrect lynches) If we go to night with all three of us alive, then the next day, we either get two more investigations (assuming that Sens's role not alignment is confirmed by Caboose) or confirmation of one of the alignments.

I am sure that at least one of wolf, Empking, and Tamuz is scum, and although it's very late, maybe we should look at them.

Empking - has not made very many posts overall, and never supported any bandwagon. Has never made a post longer than two sentences.

wolf - also did not support the charter wagon, and voted ooba for doing so. attacks me for voting charter, and says "I am still not sold on the charter wagon right now" but is clearly never going to be sold on it. He voted ooba and SSK but not charter. voted Seraphim while the town leaned Sens - mafia trying to differentiate himself? He says Sens broke down my claim, but essentially followed my claim by voting Seraphim.

RandomGem/Tamuz - did not suspect charter, commented on how he has trouble suspecting people on day one, lots of random posts without much content. votes SSK for the hammer being "scummy" despite how SSK already claimed survivor.

I have trouble following Tamuz's posts due to the structure of them, but I don't think there are particular tells.

[Electra]

How is it a false comparison?

Mostly the fact that 2 of those three roles have a meta of being protown, I believe.

First of all, no. More importantly, though, this role has no meta.[/quote]

Who do you want to lynch? I believe you have yet to vote.

[Electra]

I really don't think Forbidden is scum considering she was second on charter's wagon. I don't think there are enough people interested to push a Forbidden wagon, so given this, Sens, is Seraphim your second choice? You have no opinion on Tamuz/Emp/wolf?

[Electra]

I believe Caboose, it certainly makes sense.

I sort of want some people, namely Empking, Tamuz, and wolf, to claim as well. The reason is- the doctor is dead, I claimed a cop role, and was not counterclaimed, so there is no cop role among them. Not sure if this is actually a good idea. I just feel like they're getting by by not posting and being under the radar and that's quite irritating.

unvote, vote: wolf

I would rather just leave this Sens/Seraphim/Me thing untouched for now and see what the Mafia does about it. I can't think of a real reason why it's better to go for the 50/50 shot here and risk losing a power role.

I feel like wolf is extremely scummy and defended charter very intensely the first day.

There are no extensions in this game?

[Electra]

Not really much for me to do here because it seems you are all voting me just because we are near deadline. I still find Ser the most scummy, and Tamuz with his sudden MIA status makes me think he is content to sit back and watch people argue.

You can claim.

[Electra]

Very true, and it looks like i will have to claim now, being as people have jumped onto my wagon, and i am sure one of them is scum.

I am a Survivor Town Person. Once per night I can send in a guess at what group will kill me. if i guess right, I win. If I am alive at end game with at least one town member I win.

As it is, it is strange to see no one going after Seraphim after most seemed to come to the conclusion that Sens is pro-town, just to see if Electras claim is what she says it is.

From what I've seen of this game, there is only one killing group, so long as Caboose is telling the truth. So your role doesn't really make sense, not only that, but what are the potential groups that you can guess?

[Electra]

Doesn't say, just says scum group. At first I was told i had to pick THE person that would do the killing, but PJ amended that and said i can just pick a player and if he/she is in that scum group that kills me then it counts as me picking the right person.

So what have you picked so far?

What is your actual role name?

You have to pick a person? In your original post, you said you picked a group.

Do you think it's unfair to give you a role that is strictly easier than a townie to win with?

Do you think Caboose is lying, because your role implies that there are 2+ killing groups, but if he's telling the truth, it seems like there would just be one?

[Electra]

Very true, and it looks like i will have to claim now, being as people have jumped onto my wagon, and i am sure one of them is scum.

I am a Survivor Town Person. Once per night I can send in a guess at what group will kill me. if i guess right, I win. If I am alive at end game with at least one town member I win.

As it is, it is strange to see no one going after Seraphim after most seemed to come to the conclusion that Sens is pro-town, just to see if Electras claim is what she says it is.

From what I've seen of this game, there is only one killing group, so long as Caboose is telling the truth. So your role doesn't really make sense, not only that, but what are the potential groups that you can guess?

No. Someone has to have killed ShadowGirl or Ooba. There were 2 kills that night. I used my kill on charter N2, not N1.

Shadowgirl could have been modkilled?

[Electra]

Also, Caboose, what is your role name?

[Electra]

Seraphim, if you are town, you should think: what if I (Electra) am scum, so Sens flips town. Then tomorrow, the town decides to lynch you (Seraphim) instead of me, so then you lose. You're not afraid of this situation at all? This is what I'm afraid of, but obviously the opposite, hence I don't want to lynch Sens.

I am firmly convinced that wolf is the correct lynch, especially since his claim sucks.

[Electra]

No, because I know I will flip town. Are you saying I should be attacking you?

The point is, even if you know you're town, no one else does, so potentially people will lynch you tomorrow if Sens is town. And then you lose.

Obviously I know I'm town, so if Sens is town then you're obviously scum, but I can't necessarily convince the town to lynch you over me.

[Electra]

Yay.

I hope he's scum.

I'm generally good with catching fake claims, but Sociopath already tricked me this game so hopefully that won't be a trend. I think this one makes much less sense than Sociopath though.

[Electra]

If he jumped on the Sens wagon for the lynch, then people could unvote and vote him? He's never stated any reason for suspecting Sens. It's not like he'd be hammering.

[Electra]

I honestly don't know why it's so hard for us to lynch Electra, Sens, or Sera. From today, we know that one of them is lying scum. Why don't we lynch one of them to narrow the field?

If that's the point of this lynch, then Seraphim is the logical choice, not Sens.

[Electra]

Interesting.

Anyone want to step up and take the credit for the Mafia kill?

How should we proceed from here? Perhaps more of this claiming stuff that's been serving us so well?

I have a cleared innocent from last night, so there's only two options left for scum.

[Electra]

Claim from Tamuz and Emp.

Care to share results, Electra?

I thought maybe there would be a reason to wait until both of them claimed.

If not I will share.

The kill wasn't done by you? (as in you weren't just kidding about being one shot?)

[Electra]

I want you both to claim because there's an unanswered for kill. Tamuz needs to claim before Empking, because Empking is the innocent I got (exact same as Seraphim).

[Electra]

I want you both to claim because there's an unanswered for kill. Tamuz needs to claim before Empking, because Empking is the innocent I got (exact same as Seraphim).

SLOW DOWN!

Sens and charter were Mafia B. So, logic would dictate that there has to be a Mafia A, most likely with 2 people in it, which means that Sera and Empking can still be scum.

I still would like to see Tamuz claim.

Oh, I guess so.

I just assumed that Mafia B was arbitrary (originally I thought it meant Mafia A, B, C).

Wouldn't Seraphim have the same alignment as Sens if he were Mafia, though? (mafia-aligned) Also, where did the kill go night 2 if there are two killing groups? If Sera/Emp are scum, that does make sense about why they decided to kill Sensfan, but Sera's wishywashyness at the end of yesterday seemed fairly townlike.

Anyway, I'll wait for the claims. Maybe a prod/replace on Tamuz, since he's been absent for a while?

[Electra]

limited access/vacation until after the weekend, sorry

[Electra]

I get a kill every night unless I end up targetting a dead player or I end up targetting myself.

How would you target yourself?

I lied because I needed to get my kill on Sens in because I knew that no one in this game would grow a backbone and lynch Sens.

Why did lying make it more likely for your kill on Sens to go through?

I'm trying to figure out these NKs, myself. I killed SG, charter, and Sens, but I don't know how the scum kills worked.

Why did you kill Shadowgirl? What made you so willing to use your vig kill every night?

I know I'm not the SK. I'm just not. If you lynch me, you'll lose because there's most likely 2 mafia A out there and I'm not one of them.

How can you suggest the possibility of a Mafia A when you know that you're responsible for half the night kills? Where did all the other kills go?

-------------

Possibilities:

Seraphim and Empking are Mafia A.
Caboose is a Serial Killer, Kinetic is Mafia B.
Caboose is a Serial Killer.
Kinetic is Mafia B.

I am reluctant to believe that Seraphim is Mafia due to his dithering before voting yesterday, so if the town consensus is that Seraphim and Empking are likely to be a Mafia A, I would prefer an Empking lynch.

Kinetic's role seems too weird to be a fake, but it could easily be a Mafia gambit due to the ??? of Yaw. Yaw and RandomGem didn't really interact, but RandomGem did random vote Yaw. I would have expected them to "talk" more about who they would target though.

Caboose is very sketchy and weird, and I want some answers from him.

For now, my preference is to vote Caboose. Yes, we lose if Seraphim and Emp are Mafia A, but there's been zero indication of another Mafia group since Caboose has claimed all the nightkills in question.

[Electra]

Are you forced to make night kills, Caboose, or can you choose to not kill one night and kill the next night?

I don't know about A or B, there appear to be many arbitrary things in the game. For example, your whole targeting yourself thing doesn't seem like it would ever happen.

Does it mean that you can't kill yourself?

Potential lynches for me are Empking, Caboose, Kinetic.

If we lynch Empking, and he is Mafia A, then we win because we know Seraphim is Mafia A and Caboose can kill him.
If we lynch him and he is town, then there is either one scum left, or two scum of differing alignments and nightkills. If there is one scum left, we could tell who it is by the nightkill - Caboose will obviously kill Kinetic if he is protown. Kinetic could kill anyone, but town would win. If Caboose is the remaining scum, he would be screwed because there would be no second kill that night, and so regardless of who was killed, the town would know to lynch him and would win.
If Caboose and Kinetic are both scum, then they will not know this. Caboose's only play is to kill Kinetic, because if he is the only remaining scum and does not kill Kinetic, then the town will know that he is scum. Kinetic can expect to die at night if Emp turns up scum, and if he and Caboose are scum, then he essentially chooses who wins- SK or town.
The only tricky thing is if Mafia has a roleblock - Kinetic can block Caboose, kill someone random (me for example) and then frame Caboose for the kill and try to lynch him.

If we lynch Caboose, and there is a Mafia A, we lose. If he is the SK, then we win. If he is town, but there is no Mafia A, then we also win because we know to lynch Kinetic next time.

If we lynch Kinetic, and he is town, and there is a Mafia A, then we lose as well. If he is Mafia B, then we win since if the game is still going on, we know to lynch Caboose.

So lynching Caboose and Kinetic have the same exact result - if Mafia A, we lose, if no, we win. Lynching Empking will make us have a 50% chance of losing if there are Mafia B and SK left, but we have a good chance of winning ignoring roleblock complications.

So I think the Empking lynch makes sense, and I do find him most suspicious of those remaining.

For the record, my list:
scummiest
Empking
Tamuz
Seraphim
Caboose
least scummy
in terms of actions, and ignoring roles.

[Electra]

vote: Empking

[Electra]

Seraphim, why is Caboose the best play?

That point you bring up is kind of weird. Then again, there have been some super weird roles in this game.

The claiming a separate alignment thing is sketchy because it means that I can't get any results from him, but if he were scum, he could just kill me and not worry about that.

[Electra]

If there is a Mafia A that's not you and Empking, who else besides Caboose is in it?

[Electra]

I'm going to

unvote

, by the way, so no one cuts discussion short.

[Electra]

Kinetic, I'm obviously not lying, since my role has been verified. Why would Mafia have such a convoluted role, and why would Mafia claim when I did, anyway?

Why do you think Mafia A would be more likely to be me and Caboose, than Seraphim and Empking?

Honestly, if there _is_ a Mafia A, then I would lean towards it sharing a kill with Mafia B (alternating night kills) rather than each having their own kill simply because of how they're named.

[Electra]

Well, I will

vote: Empking

I don't think Caboose is scum after this exchange, but even if he is, voting Empking is definitely the most logical choice for the town to win.

Kinetic, your suspicions of me are complete BS, either you are scum or you are just ignoring everything that happened this game. Please explain to me how I would know what I knew if I were scum, and why I would claim when I did if I were scum. I'm pretty much the most confirmed role here, and you are failing to see this. Also, there have been plenty of Mafia games where there are two Mafia that alternate night kills, it's not the standard, but neither is anything else in this game. Are you even reading my posts? What about them is scummy? It's possible Caboose is the an SK but it's impossible for him to be Mafia A.

The other thing is that lynching Empking is obviously the better play in terms of probabilities, if you're just going to ignore everything that happened in this game.

[Electra]

Fine.

I still think you're being too... something... about this gambit thing. Maybe once I've played more games on this site, people will know that I never make gambits as Mafia because it's just a bad play.

But if Empking and Seraphim are Mafia A, then I can't think of any reason for him not to lynch Caboose.

So

unvote

,

vote: Caboose

[Electra]

Sigh.

I checked Kinetic last night, and he was not the same, so obviously,

vote:Kinetic

.

Unfortunately, I do not have the energy or the desire to convince Seraphim otherwise. So I will answer your questions, but I will make no arguments of my own.

If you are town, Seraphim, then you win if you lynch Kinetic. If you lynch me, you lose. It's really that simple; I don't say these things when I'm mafia. So your fate is in your hands. Have fun with it. (If you're scum somehow, you win automatically of course :p ).

[Electra]

I didn't think Caboose was scum, but Empking was obviously not going to vote himself, and I figured that it wouldn't hurt us as long as there was no Mafia A. Unfortunately, Seraphim decided I was Mafia at some point, which made 0 sense, considering that I said that Sens and him were opposite alignments and Sens turned out to be scum.

If we had just ignored roles and lynched whoever was most suspicious though, it definitely would have been Kinetic based on Caboose/Seraphim's play. Sigh. Whatever.

[Electra]

You know, please, don't blame me for thinking you were scummy. It was really the AoE at the end that made me vote for you, while Kinetic had laid out, quite nicely, some logical points.

I made a mistake. your play made me think you were scum. *shrugs* I suppose this has been a rather humbling expierence...I thought that Electra was scum, and rather than listening to facts, I tunnel-visioned her until she died. Which turned out to be our loss.

Oh well. Good game, Mafia! You had me fooled the entire time. XP

I will blame you for thinking that I'm scummy, thanks. :p It's not your fault that we lose though. The town was pretty sucky except for Caboose.

People just need to realize that I'm never scum if they think I'm scum. When I'm scum I just get nightkilled. There's no need to lynch me ever.