Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]

[DragonEater70]

Limming a townie is also giving scum a free kill because it ends the game 1 day sooner AND takes a role off the board. An extra chance at a town elimination only is better if we actually use it to lim Mafia. Unless we have good, solid evidence right now at this moment that we are likely to eliminate scum, which we don't, despite what overconfident people think they are doing with their reads, an extra day is better than an extra dice roll lim.

Then if we no-lim and scum "waste" their kill on me, are we all of a sudden going to get evidence? I don't understand your way of thinking.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Guys, for the love of al that is holy. Please. I beg of you. Let's vote scummy players rather than toying around with mech and arriving at a net 0 gain.

who is scummy ill sheep u

[Cook]

hey uh

just realized and i have no basis for this idea being of any merit or not

there were

no

guarantees on any mechanic or anything existing or not aside from 4:13 alignment ratio

[Cook]

our role pm's could be straight up lies

[KatyKimFanClub]

wtf?

[AniX]

I am fine with the philosophy of "Limming Day 1 is generally a good idea". But generally and "We must do it, no matter the specific circumstances of an individual game" are very far apart from one another and especially in this game, general metas MUST make way for specifics.

Guys, for the love of al that is holy. Please. I beg of you. Let's vote scummy players rather than toying around with mech and arriving at a net 0 gain.

This is literally a mech game. It is a game that was created, is run, and revolves solely around mechanics. We SHOULD be focused on mech solving. The people toying around are those going "Sure, the mechanics and role claims would lead us in one direction, but my VIBES say something different"

Limming a townie is also giving scum a free kill because it ends the game 1 day sooner AND takes a role off the board. An extra chance at a town elimination only is better if we actually use it to lim Mafia. Unless we have good, solid evidence right now at this moment that we are likely to eliminate scum, which we don't, despite what overconfident people think they are doing with their reads, an extra day is better than an extra dice roll lim.

Then if we no-lim and scum "waste" their kill on me, are we all of a sudden going to get evidence? I don't understand your way of thinking.

I don't know if you realized this, but there are around 12 other players in this game besides you and the mafia.

[DragonEater70]

Guys, for the love of al that is holy. Please. I beg of you. Let's vote scummy players rather than toying around with mech and arriving at a net 0 gain.

who is scummy ill sheep u

Aureal, Ircher, Doctor Drew.

[DragonEater70]

our role pm's could be straight up lies

Actually that's true, considering the Normal Review Group game had lies in the role PMs IIRC.

[DragonEater70]

Lemmie find that

[Theta Alpine]

by the way
investigation result would not be lost cause i can just treestump dragoneater if they do die

I thought you could only treestump millers and mafia???

ranger can disable that facet of my role for one day/night cycle
and they plan to do it to me tonight so

[camelCasedSnivy]

like lim them if they dont comply

Yeah but do you know if they are lying about it?

they have to eat the baked goods by posting it in here with bold

[AniX]

The fact you, Dragoneater, the person who by their claim should MOST want to be careful about who we eliminate because it is the only way you can contribute materially to the town victory, are the one calling for most recklessness in limming is REALLY interesting.

Weird roleclaim that doesn't fit with ANYONE else's role, weird behavior even accounting for that role existing, maybe you aren't so wrong we should lim someone today, generally when people are claiming weird and acting weird you lim them.

[DragonEater70]

Isabella, Town ???

You are

Isabella

(from Advance Wars: Days of Ruin),

Town ???

. You can't remember anything about your history, but given that you seem to know even incredibly minor details about all the militaries in the world, it's clear that you must have undergone some highly specialised training at some point.

Unfortunately, you can't remember what your role does, either. You know you have an active, targeted night action, that you can aim at one player each night. However, you don't know what effect it will have when used. You can't be certain there wasn't more to the role, too.

You win when all members of the Mafia are dead, or nothing can prevent this.

OK, so this one's just full of mod notes.

First off, this role flips as "Town ???" upon death (implying a half-Janitored flip, but it's actually just the role name), with no role PM listed (even if you normally post role PM information on death, although I'd advise against it for this game). Rolecops will get "???" as their rolecop result when used on this player, without the actual role PM. The best way to get a clue about what it does would be a Follower action (if one of those happens to be in the game), which would see the accurate "miscellaneous, blocking and protective"; if not for that, the players will have to figure out what the action does experimentally. (Note that most bastard games tend to hide the win condition too, but that's very unfun; hiding the role but not win condition is a much more interesting way to do it IMO.)

The action itself is a Loud Jailkeeper action; the target will learn which player targeted them with it, but not what the action did. (So this is symmetrical: both Isabella and her target will be aware that the action was used, but neither will be aware of what it does.) As usual for a Jailkeeper, it protects its target from any number of regular kills (but is pierced by roles like Strongman), and also roleblocks the target (again, this is just a regular block, which is pierced by roles like Strongman).

However, there's also a passive, which the player finds out about via PM when they die (

warning, part of this is a lie to the player, so this isn't

exactly

how the role actually functions

):

When Isabella dies

The shock of dying helped to jolt your memory. You couldn't remember your history because it wasn't just you! There were so many clones of you, all connected, all starting from a shared blank slate, and sometimes they hear each other's thoughts. Perhaps some of them are also playing this game?

Each time a town-aligned player replaces out, you will have a 50% chance of replacing in in their place, and your new slot will be confirmed as town-aligned. (This is a replacement in the normal mafiascum.net sense, i.e. your original player slot will remain dead, but you will take over the new slot and gain its role and all the information, PT access, etc. the role previously had.) As such, you will not be given access to the dead thread until the replacement happens (or the game ends). This replacement can only happen once; once you replace back in, it won't happen again.

(If you are unwilling to continue playing in the game, let the moderator know; in this circumstance, you will still have a 50% chance of replacing in, but when this happens you will be immediately replaced out in favour of some other player, meaning that the functionality of your role will still be available and help town, but you won't have to personally do anything.)

So this is just a regular replacement, with two differences: a) the player who replaces in is someone who was previously a player in the game (and thus may be able to carry over knowledge they had from before they died originally), b) the replacement is modconfirmed town (treat this as a standard Innocent Child behaviour, but the confirmation is purely on alignment, there's no confirmation of role). So it'll look something like this:

name

replaces

name

.

name

is confirmed to be aligned with the Town.

In particular, the role of the replaced slot doesn't change; it'll continue to be the same role as it was before, and Isabella the Town ??? is still dead. (Flavourwise, this is a case of Isabella's memories manifesting in one of her clones.)

One note:

the 50% is a pure mod lie

. It's actually "whenever a town-aligned player replaces out and the moderator doesn't immediately have a replacement handy". However, you can't tell the players that until postgame because otherwise, they may be able to deduce that a Mafia-aligned slot was Mafia-aligned from the fact that Isabella's player didn't replace it.

I remembered there being more lies but whatever.

[DragonEater70]

The fact you, Dragoneater, the person who by their claim should MOST want to be careful about who we eliminate because it is the only way you can contribute materially to the town victory, are the one calling for most recklessness in limming is REALLY interesting.

Weird roleclaim that doesn't fit with ANYONE else's role, weird behavior even accounting for that role existing, maybe you aren't so wrong we should lim someone today, generally when people are claiming weird and acting weird you lim them.

Is it really hard to believe that I don't want to die N1 and waste the fact that we didn't kill? If I die N1 I at least want it to happen after we killed scum today.

[Cook]

Isabella, Town ???

You are

Isabella

(from Advance Wars: Days of Ruin),

Town ???

. You can't remember anything about your history, but given that you seem to know even incredibly minor details about all the militaries in the world, it's clear that you must have undergone some highly specialised training at some point.

Unfortunately, you can't remember what your role does, either. You know you have an active, targeted night action, that you can aim at one player each night. However, you don't know what effect it will have when used. You can't be certain there wasn't more to the role, too.

You win when all members of the Mafia are dead, or nothing can prevent this.

OK, so this one's just full of mod notes.

First off, this role flips as "Town ???" upon death (implying a half-Janitored flip, but it's actually just the role name), with no role PM listed (even if you normally post role PM information on death, although I'd advise against it for this game). Rolecops will get "???" as their rolecop result when used on this player, without the actual role PM. The best way to get a clue about what it does would be a Follower action (if one of those happens to be in the game), which would see the accurate "miscellaneous, blocking and protective"; if not for that, the players will have to figure out what the action does experimentally. (Note that most bastard games tend to hide the win condition too, but that's very unfun; hiding the role but not win condition is a much more interesting way to do it IMO.)

The action itself is a Loud Jailkeeper action; the target will learn which player targeted them with it, but not what the action did. (So this is symmetrical: both Isabella and her target will be aware that the action was used, but neither will be aware of what it does.) As usual for a Jailkeeper, it protects its target from any number of regular kills (but is pierced by roles like Strongman), and also roleblocks the target (again, this is just a regular block, which is pierced by roles like Strongman).

However, there's also a passive, which the player finds out about via PM when they die (

warning, part of this is a lie to the player, so this isn't

exactly

how the role actually functions

):

When Isabella dies

The shock of dying helped to jolt your memory. You couldn't remember your history because it wasn't just you! There were so many clones of you, all connected, all starting from a shared blank slate, and sometimes they hear each other's thoughts. Perhaps some of them are also playing this game?

Each time a town-aligned player replaces out, you will have a 50% chance of replacing in in their place, and your new slot will be confirmed as town-aligned. (This is a replacement in the normal mafiascum.net sense, i.e. your original player slot will remain dead, but you will take over the new slot and gain its role and all the information, PT access, etc. the role previously had.) As such, you will not be given access to the dead thread until the replacement happens (or the game ends). This replacement can only happen once; once you replace back in, it won't happen again.

(If you are unwilling to continue playing in the game, let the moderator know; in this circumstance, you will still have a 50% chance of replacing in, but when this happens you will be immediately replaced out in favour of some other player, meaning that the functionality of your role will still be available and help town, but you won't have to personally do anything.)

So this is just a regular replacement, with two differences: a) the player who replaces in is someone who was previously a player in the game (and thus may be able to carry over knowledge they had from before they died originally), b) the replacement is modconfirmed town (treat this as a standard Innocent Child behaviour, but the confirmation is purely on alignment, there's no confirmation of role). So it'll look something like this:

name

replaces

name

.

name

is confirmed to be aligned with the Town.

In particular, the role of the replaced slot doesn't change; it'll continue to be the same role as it was before, and Isabella the Town ??? is still dead. (Flavourwise, this is a case of Isabella's memories manifesting in one of her clones.)

One note:

the 50% is a pure mod lie

. It's actually "whenever a town-aligned player replaces out and the moderator doesn't immediately have a replacement handy". However, you can't tell the players that until postgame because otherwise, they may be able to deduce that a Mafia-aligned slot was Mafia-aligned from the fact that Isabella's player didn't replace it.

I remembered there being more lies but whatever.

GOD i want to be on a veiled committee now

[DragonEater70]

ranger can disable that facet of my role for one day/night cycle

Is that facet confirmed to be a "modifier" that would actually get disabled?

[DragonEater70]

GOD i want to be on a veiled committee now

Yeah that role is pretty sick ngl

[Theta Alpine]

ranger can disable that facet of my role for one day/night cycle

Is that facet confirmed to be a "modifier" that would actually get disabled?

yes desperate is explicitly a modifier that effects any action i do

[DkKoba]

eliminating is +info for town

Sure if 100% of your reads are based in mechs it doesn't help but revealing a slots alignment helps inform night actions better

[Political Clout]

anix is saying implicitly that the info we get from dragoneat is better than info we get from a flip. anix is also saying dragoneat is scum. these two facts don't mesh well.

[Theta Alpine]

we get info about pc and dragoneater and one slot of dragoneaters choosing by forcing dragon eater to do their cop

[Theta Alpine]

it is not just one slot we get info on from this maneuver

[Political Clout]

actually with anix passively pushing no lim, voting me, calling dragoneat scum might be town for scatterbrain reasons.

[DkKoba]

actually with anix passively pushing no lim, voting me, calling dragoneat scum might be town for scatterbrain reasons.

Anix vote on you is mech related fwiw

[AniX]

anix is saying implicitly that the info we get from dragoneat is better than info we get from a flip. anix is also saying dragoneat is scum. these two facts don't mesh well.

If DE is telling the truth, the first is correct. If DE is scum, the second is correct. Obviously these do not mesh well, which is why I am trying to decide which one I think is more true.