Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]
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camelCasedSnivy he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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like lim them if they dont complymaster at being scum(my)-
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AniX NoneUCalledNone
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Presuming you are telling the truth, even if you do die, forcing the Mafia to waste a kill on a role that is only useful under very specific circumstances is a win in my book.In post 2068, DragonEater70 wrote:
I disagree. We have no protectives, so I'll just get killed and we wouldn't have achieved anything.In post 1948, AniX wrote: I'd be ok with no lim, since it is the limited case where we can lock DragonEater into using his cop ability.
This logic only works if we have a reasonable chance of limming mafia today. We don't.In post 2069, DragonEater70 wrote:
But we wouldn't have gained anything. Like assuming we decide on a no-lim, and then scum kills me, the net result of D1 + N1 would have been 1 less town player, with no information gained. It's not useful. If we had more investigatives then maybe it would have been useful.In post 1954, AniX wrote: So? Putting the mafia into a position where they either need to sink a kill into a role that is on the precipice of useless or letting a cop investigation go is a position I want them to be in.
(Sorry, I know there's a tracker but I don't think one town death is worth one tracker result when the scum is probably quite able to use crazy roles which we do NOT know about.
The likely worlds (if you are not mafia) are:
Lim someone:Odds are, at this information level, whomever we lim will be town. You lose your power entirely and as such we get no cop result. Mafia kills someone with a more useful role. We lose 1 town, likely 2, and 1 investigation.
Lim nobody, Mafia kills you:We are down only 1 town and not a useful one. Town is better off for you having died as opposed to one of the power roles. We lose 1 town and 1 investigation.
Lim nobody, Mafia kills someone else:We are down only 1 town but we have successfully created a set of circumstances where you are able to get off an investigation. We are down 1 town but up 1 investigation.
You tell me which you prefer:
-2 dead town, 1 lost investigation
-1 dead town, 1 lost investigation OR 1 dead town, 1 successful investigationOfficial Gimmick List:
INVENTOR OF UPICK!LORD OF THE 11TH HOUR!ASEXUAL!KING SCAR APOLOGIST!DREAMER OF THE NE0N DREAM (SUPP 2021 LAST PLACE WINNER)!
I have donned theRED CROWN-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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How?In post 2074, camelCasedSnivy wrote:
you can force the people with baked goods to eatIn post 2071, DragonEater70 wrote:
Maybe I misunderstood CCS claim, but doesn't the target decide if they want to be roleblocked? Which makes it a useless role?In post 1969, Bingle wrote: CCS roleblocks three people in the same phase.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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They are not wasting a kill, they are earning a free kill. If we eliminate then they'd be wasting a kill.In post 2076, AniX wrote: Presuming you are telling the truth, even if you do die, forcing the Mafia to waste a kill on a role that is only useful under very specific circumstances is a win in my book.-
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camelCasedSnivy he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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"Eat the baked goods or we lim you"In post 2077, DragonEater70 wrote:
How?In post 2074, camelCasedSnivy wrote:
you can force the people with baked goods to eatIn post 2071, DragonEater70 wrote:
Maybe I misunderstood CCS claim, but doesn't the target decide if they want to be roleblocked? Which makes it a useless role?In post 1969, Bingle wrote: CCS roleblocks three people in the same phase.master at being scum(my)-
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Aureal she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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OMFG GUYSIn post 2065, DragonEater70 wrote:
I told you already: I think you should neighborize Ranger.In post 1928, Aureal wrote: Yeah, I already acknowledged that you guys can't be sure that my role is actually entirely the same as the abilities I give to others. I understand that and fully expect that I'm not going to be surviving deep into the game, it's just a matter of whether scum or town kill me off first. What is not acceptable is just waving it all away so I can get killed tonight and leave none of it behind for town when they see in the morning that it all came from town in the first place so they didn't need to be paranoid but OOOOOPS TOO LATE NOW. I will
be using my other neighborhood on someone today so it'd be really cool to get some feedback from others on this stuff but that's not happening because Bingle's been yelling about it being scum.
DE is such obvious scum here
He literally just cut out the last paragraph WHERE I EXPLAIN WHY WE SHOULDN'T GIVE IT TO RANGER YET
so he can just say again that I should give it to Ranger
WTF"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
-furtiveglance-
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AniX NoneUCalledNone
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They get a kill tonight regardless. They are not getting a free kill. They will get that kill regardless of what we do today. Better it be on you than any of the other roles people have claimed. How on earth does that kill they get regardless become "wasted" if we lim today?In post 2079, DragonEater70 wrote:
They are not wasting a kill, they are earning a free kill. If we eliminate then they'd be wasting a kill.In post 2076, AniX wrote: Presuming you are telling the truth, even if you do die, forcing the Mafia to waste a kill on a role that is only useful under very specific circumstances is a win in my book.Official Gimmick List:
INVENTOR OF UPICK!LORD OF THE 11TH HOUR!ASEXUAL!KING SCAR APOLOGIST!DREAMER OF THE NE0N DREAM (SUPP 2021 LAST PLACE WINNER)!
I have donned theRED CROWN-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Okay let me put it this way:In post 2082, AniX wrote:
They get a kill tonight regardless. They are not getting a free kill. They will get that kill regardless of what we do today. Better it be on you than any of the other roles people have claimed. How on earth does that kill they get regardless become "wasted" if we lim today?In post 2079, DragonEater70 wrote:
They are not wasting a kill, they are earning a free kill. If we eliminate then they'd be wasting a kill.In post 2076, AniX wrote: Presuming you are telling the truth, even if you do die, forcing the Mafia to waste a kill on a role that is only useful under very specific circumstances is a win in my book.
Let's take, for the sake of argument, a mountainous setup with 4 scum and 13 town (17 players total).
If town eliminates every day and scum kills every night, then if town is doing a really bad job and hitting town only, you'd have:
Dawn of D1 - 4/13
Dawn of D2 - 4/11
Dawn of D3 - 4/9
Dawn of D4 - 4/7
Dawn of D5 - 4/5 (ELO)
End of D5 - 4/4 (scum wins)
Scum wins at end of D5 after 5 eliminations.
Now if town doesn't eliminate D1 you get:
Dawn of D1 - 4/13
Dawn of D2 - 4/12
Dawn of D3 - 4/10
Dawn of D4 - 4/8
Dawn of D5 - 4/6
Dawn of D6 - 4/4 (scum wins)
But in this scenario town only got 4 chances to do an elimination, instead of 5 (since they didn't eliminate D1).
Therefore this is the equivalent of giving scum a free kill.
No obviously we are no in mountainous but unless we have some good, usable night actions which will find us scum (rather than just negate scum actions, for example by way of roleblock), then we are still giving scum a free kill for no reason.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Can someone who is experienced and knowledgeable about this site's meta (and more importantly, the theory behind it) back me up here?-
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camelCasedSnivy he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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we could theoretically lim KKFCmaster at being scum(my)-
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DkKoba They/ThemSurvivorThey/Them
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lame scummy gotcha roflIn post 2081, Aureal wrote:
OMFG GUYSIn post 2065, DragonEater70 wrote:
I told you already: I think you should neighborize Ranger.In post 1928, Aureal wrote: Yeah, I already acknowledged that you guys can't be sure that my role is actually entirely the same as the abilities I give to others. I understand that and fully expect that I'm not going to be surviving deep into the game, it's just a matter of whether scum or town kill me off first. What is not acceptable is just waving it all away so I can get killed tonight and leave none of it behind for town when they see in the morning that it all came from town in the first place so they didn't need to be paranoid but OOOOOPS TOO LATE NOW. I will
be using my other neighborhood on someone today so it'd be really cool to get some feedback from others on this stuff but that's not happening because Bingle's been yelling about it being scum.
DE is such obvious scum here
He literally just cut out the last paragraph WHERE I EXPLAIN WHY WE SHOULDN'T GIVE IT TO RANGER YET
so he can just say again that I should give it to Ranger
WTF-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Dude, I cut out the quote as well. I think I accidentally used the quoting by marking text feature instead of the quote button.In post 2081, Aureal wrote:
OMFG GUYSIn post 2065, DragonEater70 wrote:
I told you already: I think you should neighborize Ranger.In post 1928, Aureal wrote: Yeah, I already acknowledged that you guys can't be sure that my role is actually entirely the same as the abilities I give to others. I understand that and fully expect that I'm not going to be surviving deep into the game, it's just a matter of whether scum or town kill me off first. What is not acceptable is just waving it all away so I can get killed tonight and leave none of it behind for town when they see in the morning that it all came from town in the first place so they didn't need to be paranoid but OOOOOPS TOO LATE NOW. I will
be using my other neighborhood on someone today so it'd be really cool to get some feedback from others on this stuff but that's not happening because Bingle's been yelling about it being scum.
DE is such obvious scum here
He literally just cut out the last paragraph WHERE I EXPLAIN WHY WE SHOULDN'T GIVE IT TO RANGER YET
so he can just say again that I should give it to Ranger
WTF-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Strengthened.In post 2041, Ranger wrote:
What do we gain from letting DragonEater70 investigate by nolimming? Assuming it goes through, a single town player, statistically speaking. If DragonEater70 hit scum, it'd be better, sure; by the odds, still unlikely.In post 2032, Theta Alpine wrote:but if we want to give dragoneater an actual shot at using their ability in order to chain ability confirmations we could no lim to be safe
What do we lose from nolimming to guarantee it? Assuming scum shoot, a single town player.
A nolim breaks evenifnothing goes wrong.
Personally, I'd prefer eliminating scum today. If we get it right, DE70 still gets an invest anyway. If we get it wrong, then at least we didn't put the game on hold for a single investigation where we likely break even.
I suppose the question then is simply this; do you believe thechanceof getting a guilty warrants aguaranteedloss of eliminating scum today?
I don't. I'd prefer a chance to eliminate scum, which if right, gives a chance of a guilty still.-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I was so sad when I heard the news. Apparently it's related to some drama with the site being basically unmoderated, so it was taken down.In post 2049, Skygazer wrote: omg is epic mafia gone?-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I thought Ranger was the Epicmafia pro here.In post 2047, Cook wrote: koba's gonna pull some wizardry out of hammerspace and they're going to solve the game based off of epicmafia-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Replace Cook with Ircher and I'm in!
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Theta Alpine she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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by the way
investigation result would not be lost cause i can just treestump dragoneater if they do diealter of rautherdir
as town won 5 games | lost 6 games | mislimd 3 times | dayvigged once | nightkilled 3 times | vengekilled once | survived 3 times
as scum won 5 games | lost 1 game | eliminated twice | dayvigged once | vigged once | survived once | perfect scum victory once
and if you count large normal 204 then i won that game after replacing out as scum-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Yeah but do you know if they are lying about it?In post 2075, camelCasedSnivy wrote: like lim them if they dont comply-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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I thought you could only treestump millers and mafia???In post 2093, Theta Alpine wrote: by the way
investigation result would not be lost cause i can just treestump dragoneater if they do die-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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If u guys vote me DE70 will lose role but it would be net 0 investigations. Problem is that my role is random and thus will likely hit town.-
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AniX NoneUCalledNone
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Limming a townie is also giving scum a free kill because it ends the game 1 day sooner AND takes a role off the board. An extra chance at a town elimination only is better if we actually use it to lim Mafia. Unless we have good, solid evidence right now at this moment that we are likely to eliminate scum, which we don't, despite what overconfident people think they are doing with their reads, an extra day is better than an extra dice roll lim.In post 2083, DragonEater70 wrote:
Okay let me put it this way:In post 2082, AniX wrote:
They get a kill tonight regardless. They are not getting a free kill. They will get that kill regardless of what we do today. Better it be on you than any of the other roles people have claimed. How on earth does that kill they get regardless become "wasted" if we lim today?In post 2079, DragonEater70 wrote:
They are not wasting a kill, they are earning a free kill. If we eliminate then they'd be wasting a kill.In post 2076, AniX wrote: Presuming you are telling the truth, even if you do die, forcing the Mafia to waste a kill on a role that is only useful under very specific circumstances is a win in my book.
Let's take, for the sake of argument, a mountainous setup with 4 scum and 13 town (17 players total).
If town eliminates every day and scum kills every night, then if town is doing a really bad job and hitting town only, you'd have:
Dawn of D1 - 4/13
Dawn of D2 - 4/11
Dawn of D3 - 4/9
Dawn of D4 - 4/7
Dawn of D5 - 4/5 (ELO)
End of D5 - 4/4 (scum wins)
Scum wins at end of D5 after 5 eliminations.
Now if town doesn't eliminate D1 you get:
Dawn of D1 - 4/13
Dawn of D2 - 4/12
Dawn of D3 - 4/10
Dawn of D4 - 4/8
Dawn of D5 - 4/6
Dawn of D6 - 4/4 (scum wins)
But in this scenario town only got 4 chances to do an elimination, instead of 5 (since they didn't eliminate D1).
Therefore this is the equivalent of giving scum a free kill.
No obviously we are no in mountainous but unless we have some good, usable night actions which will find us scum (rather than just negate scum actions, for example by way of roleblock), then we are still giving scum a free kill for no reason.Official Gimmick List:
INVENTOR OF UPICK!LORD OF THE 11TH HOUR!ASEXUAL!KING SCAR APOLOGIST!DREAMER OF THE NE0N DREAM (SUPP 2021 LAST PLACE WINNER)!
I have donned theRED CROWN-
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Guys, for the love of al that is holy. Please. I beg of you. Let's vote scummy players rather than toying around with mech and arriving at a net 0 gain.-
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KatyKimFanClub he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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But, I think dying earlier here has utility for town, since I'm going to be a liability come endgame since scum will never kill me.
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