Mini 703 - A Roccisi Autumn - Over

[Rage]

Lionheart has the benefit of the doubt for now.

Does that mean he responded to a prod or something?

He has posted. He doesn't have an avatar so it's easier to skip.

[Adel]

the scummiest post I've seen in a long time:

Awww man, we lost a gun inventer, that sucks. That could have come in useful later.

Still got no clue how we were supposed to guess Puta was a cop, been over every word and it still doesn't make sense.

Speaking of which, do we have any other investigators who could have found stuff last night?

seriously, this is who I am replacing?

[tubby216]

yup happy holiday's adel

[darkdude]

Well, most of the time people who get replaced out are bad players...

[Adel]

yup happy holiday's adel

so why is your vote on me?

Also, why are people being allowed to lurk through this game so easily?

while I am rereading, I think it is time to build a pressure wagon:

vote: IH

Post or Perish!

[tubby216]

because i think the other case goin on darkdude is bs. so rather than simply unvote and leave it outthere floating i decided to leave it on you until i get a good read of you.

[Adel]

tubby: do you mind answering some questions about the case against darkdude?

1. What do you think the legitimate reasons (i.e. non-bullshit reasons) to be voting for darkdude are?
2. Do you think that all three people voting for darkdude are scum?
3. If you think at least one of the people voting for darkdude are not scum, why do you think that a townie is voting for darkdude?

[ThAdmiral]

a quick question: who thought that Puta Puta might be Gimbo before he was lynched?

I don't know who gimbo is...

Can somebody tell me who gimbo is?

[TDC]

Vote Count

Adel (3): tubby216, Rage, chuckrock
Darkdude (2): Ectomancer, Korts
IH (1): Adel

Not voting (4): IH, Lionheart, darkdude, ThAdmiral

Prodding IH.
I am not content with the amount of prodding I had to do recently. Let me remind you it's only a little over two weeks until deadline.

[tubby216]

tubby: do you mind answering some questions about the case against darkdude?

sure no problem

1. What do you think the legitimate reasons (i.e. non-bullshit reasons) to be voting for darkdude are?

i think perhaps the rquest for the finding holder to breadcrum was pretty scummy.

2. Do you think that all three people voting for darkdude are scum?

no i do not think all of them are scumm i think that its more like one of them is scummy, I believe ecto to be town, normally scum won't take the lead in getting a wagon goin nor will they defend their cases so hard. now wether or not that makes korts or thadmiral scumm i have no idea, i will re-read on that and post more later

3. If you think at least one of the people voting for darkdude are not scum, why do you think that a townie is voting for darkdude?

see above


now i have some for you,

1)do you believe the case on you/BoW is valid?
2)do you think you should full claim since Bow kinda soft claimed?
3)who do you think is scummiest on your wagon and why?

[darkdude]

Ugh...

Vote: IH

[Korts]

a quick question: who thought that Puta Puta might be Gimbo before he was lynched?

I don't know who gimbo is...

Can somebody tell me who gimbo is?

Gimbo is a player who was banned for ruining multiple games, I think. Claiming scum complete with scumpartner out of frustration, the lot. He was notable for posting every alternate minute, usually partly or fully off-topic. Also had a manic style. And when he was banned, he tried to come back multiple times with several alts. Unfortunately, he had a very recognizable playstyle. You missed out on all this?

Also, I shamefully admit that I didn't even suspect Puta of being Gimbo.

I'll try and summarize the darkdude case sometime tomorrow.

[Adel]

1)do you believe the case on you/BoW is valid?

I recognize that BOW made posts that contain many tells that can be counted as scummy. I believe that BOW was probably a VI, and those tells from his posts should probably be discarded as not being likely to correlate with alignment.

2)do you think you should full claim since Bow kinda soft claimed?

I had no idea he softclaimed. I do not think it is a good idea for me to claim at this point. Do you want me to claim?

3)who do you think is scummiest on your wagon and why?

I do not know who the scummiest person is. I haven't read the game deeply yet, and I haven't even started a full analysis of it. It will probably take me until about Thursday of next week to post any conclusions that I can be really confident of.

[Adel]

I just noticed that Ectomancer and IH haven't posted in the last three days.

mod:

would you please prod Ectomancer and IH?

[Adel]

I just noticed that Ectomancer and IH haven't posted in the last three days.

mod:

would you please prod Ectomancer and IH?

nevermind, I forgot about

All Mod communication should go through PMs, please do not request me to do things in thread. You may never quote anything you received as PM from me.

from the rules.

sorry.

[Adel]

... not to mention that I missed where the mod posted in 358 that he just prodded IH.

[Ectomancer]

I just noticed that Ectomancer and IH haven't posted in the last three days.

mod:

would you please prod Ectomancer and IH?

Well, I've said my piece on DarkDude. I told Rage what I thought of the case on BoW, who is now you. Im now in my waiting for others to chime in phase.

On Puta: I also had no knowledge of a Gimbo, much less that Puta might be it.he.she.

[tubby216]

1)do you believe the case on you/BoW is valid?

I recognize that BOW made posts that contain many tells that can be counted as scummy. I believe that BOW was probably a VI, and those tells from his posts should probably be discarded as not being likely to correlate with alignment.

2)do you think you should full claim since Bow kinda soft claimed?

I had no idea he softclaimed. I do not think it is a good idea for me to claim at this point. Do you want me to claim?

3)who do you think is scummiest on your wagon and why?

I do not know who the scummiest person is. I haven't read the game deeply yet, and I haven't even started a full analysis of it. It will probably take me until about Thursday of next week to post any conclusions that I can be really confident of.

ok fair enough. I think you have satisfied my suspicion enough for now. However please note I will be watching your posts closely
but i feel ih 's lurking is a bigger problem, so i'll

unvote

vote ih

[Adel]

However please note I will be watching your posts closely

Good! Since you are watching closely, can you spot any errors in this:

[Adel]

tubby:
still alive in

• 1. Xyl's Relative Chaos - Night 3
  2. Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Day One
  3. Newbie 673: (Day 2)
  4. Family Guy Mafia - FCC gets da boot (Night 1)
  5. Mafia 82: International (Day 4, four dead again)

Finished Games:

• 1. Mini 669: Mod Abandoned -- townie?
  2. Newbie 644: Kodak City, Muffin District (wrecked) -- scum
  3. Newbie 675: Zeroville Heights (Fell Off a Cliff) -- townie

Wow, you have had horrible luck with your games not finishing. Sorry about that.

[tubby216]

tubby:
still alive in

• 1. Xyl's Relative Chaos - Night 3
  2. Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Day One
  3. Newbie 673: (Day 2)
  4. Family Guy Mafia - FCC gets da boot (Night 1)
  5. Mafia 82: International (Day 4, four dead again)

Finished Games:

• 1. Mini 669: Mod Abandoned -- townie?
  2. Newbie 644: Kodak City, Muffin District (wrecked) -- scum
  3. Newbie 675: Zeroville Heights (Fell Off a Cliff) -- townie

Wow, you have had horrible luck with your games not finishing. Sorry about that.

yes yes i do but i am still here and i am still tryin go me!!!

[ThAdmiral]

@ adel: Have you found any algorithms that help catch scum? I figure there would be ones that would at least increase the odds of finding scum by a bit, and I know you've been experimenting, so...

Also how do you feel about the darkdude case? And who are your suspects?

[Adel]

I need to reread again, from where I left off last time.

Vote: Tarballs,

because I remember being suspicious of him.

I don't understand something about day 1: on page 6 we have

Tarball did tons of fence-sitting pointing out how he doesn't like this or that but no solid FoS or Vote. gorball does the same thing, criticizing almost everyone and in the end abruptly votes for Rage which makes no sense. Very scummy imo.

and

As for Tarballs, there is now a pattern of joining big wagons at opportune times. I don't know if that's deliberate, or it just happened that way. He hasn't posted enough for me to make a full judgment. The only time his one big/useful post mentioned Puta was about him being scummy for the "killing a cat" comment, which I took to be at best a joke on Tarballs' part. It feels like EasyWagoning at the moment.

and

Ecto, I'm not saying everyone on that wagon is suspect. Just a couple people. Given that you're not on any wagon, I'm also wondering why you're defending people without letting them answer on their own.

As for Tarballs, there is now a pattern of joining big wagons at opportune times. I don't know if that's deliberate, or it just happened that way. He hasn't posted enough for me to make a full judgment. The only time his one big/useful post mentioned Puta was about him being scummy for the "killing a cat" comment, which I took to be at best a joke on Tarballs' part. It feels like EasyWagoning at the moment.

Defending? It's called educating. You showed a lack of understanding regarding pressure votes being used to change the behavior of a player. Case, point, and example laid out for you right here in this game.
In any case, assume you could interpret my post as defending someone, what relevance would my lack of a presence on a wagon have to do with that defense?

Now a couple questions of you. If you are so sold on Tarball, why is your vote still on Rage, who is one of the recipients of Tarball's votes that you are using to make your case? Is that a sloppy bus? If not, isn't your case on Tarball dependent upon Rage being town?

Also of interest...why would you give Puta a clean slate? What comment would have inspired you to make that statement?

Summary: I see you mudslinging with seemingly contradictory premises. Your vote is sticking to Rage while you probe reactions to your statements about 2 other players.
Then, on the flip side, you give a "clean slate" to a player at L-2, whose alignment just might get revealed today.

Isn't that amusing?

and

Defending? It's called educating. You showed a lack of understanding regarding pressure votes being used to change the behavior of a player. Case, point, and example laid out for you right here in this game.
In any case, assume you could interpret my post as defending someone, what relevance would my lack of a presence on a wagon have to do with that defense?

I have no problem with pressure votes. I understand them and don't need someone to explain them to me. I felt that two of the five votes currently on the wagon were made strangely, and I pointed that out. I'm still wondering why you tried to answer the questions I had for those players yourself.

Now a couple questions of you. If you are so sold on Tarball, why is your vote still on Rage, who is one of the recipients of Tarball's votes that you are using to make your case? Is that a sloppy bus? If not, isn't your case on Tarball dependent upon Rage being town?

I'm... not sold on Tarballs.

He hasn't posted enough for me to make a full judgment.

I do agree that my case on Tarballs probably falls down if Rage isn't town. Aren't I allowed to think that two generally opposing players are scummy in their own way?

and

In my opinion, I'd prefer Tarball's lynch than Puta Puta's. It doesn't make any sense to me why anyone would want to breadcrumb as a killer if they were scum, quite the opposite I'd think, and Puta Puta is likely to get targeted during the night anyways if he lives today. I mean, that's just WIFOM at this point, but if Town thinks he's scummy, either way (pro or anti-town) he's not much of a threat today. It also gives any potential investigators purpose during the night, but let's not talk too much about that touchy subject, eh?

Now, I'm not saying I believe the "oh, that? That was meant for another game!" excuse he's got going on right now, but I don't think there's enough evidence for me to believe he's scum and I think there's more enough reason to believe Tarballs is instead.

Unvote

Vote: Tarballs

all of these were posted within 8 hours. Tarballs is mentioned far more times on page 6 than on any other page. He picks up one vote, and then people stop talking about him. Why is that?

16 hours later Ecto votes Puta with 147, and ~ 4 hours later

Hmm. I'd say Tarballs and Ecto may be scumpartners. Ecto started pushing Puta's wagon not when it was valid, but when more and more people expressed suspicion of Tarballs. Deflecting attention much?

vote: Ectomancer

@ Korts: why did you focus on and vote for Ecto instead of Tarball at this point?

There was more overall suspicion on Tar, and one person (Rage) was actually voting for Tar.

about 2.5 hours after tubby placed Puta Puta at lynch -1 with post 210, Korts made the very next post:

also don't like the "just an average townie" soft claim by BoW. He's certainly becoming more suspicious, but it's not quite enough for me to change my vote yet.

Okay, so you had to bring the "soft claim" up again. Why? What does it prove in terms of scumminess?

As of now in the reread, Macavity is leading my scumlist by far, with Tarballs a not-very-close second. I'll continue later, but I have other things to do.

the full post is very long, and Korts doesn't mention Puta even once. Note that Korts vote was actually on Puta Puta at this time.

@ Korts: why were you willing to leave Puta Puta at lynch -1 when Macavity was the scummiest on your list, and Tarballs (who actually had a vote on him) was a distant second?

~~~

To be frank, I can imagine MacavityLock being a vigkill. He was under considerable pressure yesterday, therefore I don't think he fits the profile of a mafia NK.

I still haven't gotten round to a reread, though. Give me 'til weekend.

Which posts show that MacavityLock was under "considerable pressure" during day 1?

~~~

@ ThAdmiral: yesm I don't have any feeling about the darkdude case yet since I haven't looked at him yet, I haven't eliminated anyone from suspicion yet but I am working on it.

[darkdude]

Adel, I have no idea how to use your chart...

[Korts]

Tarballs is mentioned far more times on page 6 than on any other page. He picks up one vote, and then people stop talking about him. Why is that?

I have no idea. I was behind in my reading at that time, so that's a reason for why I didn't continue the Tarballs discussion at that time, I don't know about others.

Korts: why did you focus on and vote for Ecto instead of Tarball at this point?

Because it was Ecto who seemed to be deflecting, and not Tarballs.

about 2.5 hours after tubby placed Puta Puta at lynch -1 with post 210, Korts made the very next post:

also don't like the "just an average townie" soft claim by BoW. He's certainly becoming more suspicious, but it's not quite enough for me to change my vote yet.

Okay, so you had to bring the "soft claim" up again. Why? What does it prove in terms of scumminess?

As of now in the reread, Macavity is leading my scumlist by far, with Tarballs a not-very-close second. I'll continue later, but I have other things to do.

the full post is very long, and Korts doesn't mention Puta even once. Note that Korts vote was actually on Puta Puta at this time.

@ Korts: why were you willing to leave Puta Puta at lynch -1 when Macavity was the scummiest on your list, and Tarballs (who actually had a vote on him) was a distant second?

You are conveniently ignoring the fact that this big post you speak of was a catching-up post and I adjusted my reads to that. Meanwhile, in the present, Puta was more than worthy of a lynch for his unhelpfulness; I just hadn't gotten to that point in reading up that it should've been worth mentioning.

Which posts show that MacavityLock was under "considerable pressure" during day 1?

I don't have the time to go back and find the specific posts, but I expressed solid suspicion on Macavity, and I remember Ecto doing so, too. At the time I posted the "considerable pressure" post, I also believed that ThAdmiral had fingered him as a suspect, too (apparently not, though). Three people is considerable pressure, no?