BooneyToonz XVI: Boons Ahoy! - [END]

[Klick]

For Peregrine being mafia:
1. They need to make Ascetic claim instantly.
2. After day discuss to claim Fruit even if it's not possible.
3. Most likely if mafia they ASK moderator if it's any way possible for Ascetic to receive fruit unless they believe WillBooster works like this and won't bother. I would bother personally.
4. Then they claim Fruit. So they can get. Uh. Well. What?

2 and 4 are the same point?

If Peregrine is town you have to assume that the scumteam has a workaround that allows them to target Peregrine through their Ascetic, AND decided this was a good idea for ??? reasons.

[Klick]

People with towny vibes can be scum and kind of have to be in this circumstance at least for me

I guess I understand that but it is!! Very frustrating to me!! Personally!!! And I feel as if I haven’t done good enough to pass some bar for town to trust me despite what I have to deal with which I do not like!! (That I did not do enough not the other people’s perspectives!!)

I mean it would probably help if I knew who your main was so I could see how you typically play as town or scum. I get the impression you wouldn't want to self-out though.

Atm there's nothing that indicates to me that you aren't just a particularly strong scum player who has put out good vibes. The reasons I townread most of the players I townread here are specifically because I think their play this game is how they would play as town and not as scum. But I don't have any basis to form a hard conclusion for you on that. And your structured way of speech makes it clear that you carefully consider most posts. I don't know what you're capable of.

[Klick]

Can fruit do anything else beyond just being given?? I know that things such as loyal or disloyal fruit vendors have been in mafia games before? But if mafia is giving me fruit can they give it to me and roleblock me or investigate me somehow to see what else I could have had??

Combined roles with Fruit Vendor exist yes
That's what flippyNips is claiming, Weak Fruit Vendor
It can exist for other modifiers too

[Klick]

If that is the case then yes you are correct!! I would prefer to die than have to divulge information about who I could or could not be!!! Though I wish it did not have to be like that and that you would go off of my merits this game!!

I kind of!! Hate meta!!!!!! But I get it!!!!!

I am measuring you by your merit! You're just not as towny as most of the other players in this game because those players are at like a 9.5/10 and you're at like a 7.5.

[Klick]

I love meta, I think one of the best things about Mafia is that it's about real people and how they think and behave.

[Klick]

That's exactly what the real Enchant would decide to say in this situation

[Klick]

JOAT with many different flavors of fruit vendor?

Okay this has some fun potential
It particularly implicates Dragons I think

[Klick]

I think 'Night 3 Stickyfruit Vendor' is the sketchiest claim we have

[Klick]

Potential theory:
- Emperor flippyNips scum
- flippy is a Fruit Vendor, additional power unknown
- flippy targeted Peregrine or Dragons N1, Frogs N2
- flippy did not want to clear Dragons or Peregrine N1 but still wanted to claim Weak Fruit Vendor.

The only question this leaves is why flippy wanted to claim Weak Fruit Vendor in the first place.

[Klick]

It makes sense if Frogs is scum.

Does it make sense if Frogs is town?

[Klick]

Can frogs be scum yet? Please?

VOTE: Flippy and if it's drew I'm not taking the blame for the L

-c

My gut response when reading this is to feel like you have no feelings on whether Drew actually IS town or scum, but you're annoyed that he is now being considered less.

I feel like a viable response you could have made as town here would have been to have a quick skim through Drew's meta yourself and confirm whether what I was saying was true or not.

I feel like the response you've given, while still possible as town, is kind of the response you'd need to give as scum because you want to come back to Drew as an option later.

I'm annoyed because I want to be right but I think you're town and you have concluded that the meta says otherwise. I both want him to be scum and know that nothing is happening without your approval.

I've been pretty town recently, so if this is where you are, maybe you should just kill me.

-c

It's not about *being right* it's about actually being at the correct answer

There is one correct answer for everyone's alignment in this game and ultimately whatever lens you use if you're using it properly should point to that alignment instead of the wrong one

If Drew's scum, then something about how he is playing fits his scum meta instead of his town meta. He isn't somehow perfectly emulating his town game. There should be evidence that he's scum through that lens.

I can't find any. I see the opposite.

I'd be interested in seeing you do the same thing - looking at a few of Drew's games, seeing how he typically plays and the differences between his alignments, and then coming back to this game and seeing which fits his play here better. I feel like if you did, you'd either more comfortably see Drew as town, or you'd see the opposite and we could have a conversation along those lines and come closer to the truth of the situation.

I feel like the more confident I get in my solving, the more dejected you feel. I don't like sapping the fun out of things, but I feel like I'm just trying to do my job in this game same as you're trying to.

[Klick]

I feel like anyone that gets any amount of pressure in this game just goes 'wtf y'all I'm town why are we still suspecting me I guess you can kill me but I'm town and it's on you for getting it wrong'

Like this game DOES have an answer. Out of all the people pulling that card, there has to be at least one scum. If you think you're obvious town and suspicion on you is unreasonable, spell that out for the class.

[Klick]

VOTE: Dragons
For their shade on me

Yeah that makes so much sense. Town never question the assumptions! After all they're performing so well for us. Maybe you should try scumhunting if you don't want to be questioned. Sitting there like a lump and only bothering to participate when I annoy you is a great way to lose if you're town

It's funny how we pretended the ranger mislim was going to make us think and then came right back to me like we were lining up if she flipped scum. Good thinking team 10/20

I'm trying to solve mate. Tell me where my solve is failing and why instead of telling us all we're playing badly.

[Klick]

Who is scum that I am saying I cannot see as scum

[Klick]

Enchant is never scum
Norwee is never scum
Frogs is like 99% never scum, and if they're scum it's with exactly flippy
Mala and Drew are very very towny

Flippy/Dragons/Peregrine.

why did you come to these conclusions

sorry i'm kind of jumping all over the place so if you answered let me know and i'll try to find it

~std

Which ones do you disagree with in particular?
What's your position? Who is viable/particularly likely scum from your perspective?

I'm not interested in arguing all of my reads to you I'd rather argue the ones that matter

[Klick]

Sorry was calling family!
I've got half a post written up

[Klick]

I think Norwee has a level of comfort in himself and the way he's expressing his opinions that doesn't exist in his scum play. When Norwee is scum from what I've seen he makes pushes with a certain amount of fabricated force. Whereas when he's town he's a lot more nuanced in his takes because he is actually thinking about them.

Just as a somewhat random sample from his ISO:

There are a lot of defenses on Frogs for what i think are objectively bad reasons, but that also means a push there right now will probably get us nowhere.
Them not playing doesn’t mean they are town or scum imo, it just means they aren’t playing.

assuming I'm not under pressure right now: peregrine and doctor drew have towny vibes

assuming I'm under pressure right now: peregrine and doctor drew are NAI

This is a weird post and i’m not sure what to make of it.

Again i agree with you that Temporallich’s vibes are really weird in this game. But i don’t think i’ve ever played with them before so i’m a bit hesitant to vote them just because of that.

But then again idk where else to vote so why not.
I don’t find the case on Whemestar very compelling.
VOTE: Temporallich

There's hesitance, there's a full thought process, there's nuance. I find it really hard to express the exact thing I am seeing, but it has something to do with the *purpose* of the posts. I see no motivation or agenda in the first post except for the primary driving force of actually letting out legitimate opinions on Frogs' alignment. The TL progression is also just acted out, as opposed to projected. What I mean by that is that Norwee develops a particularly detailed take on TL without much of a conclusion, and then votes TL while still not resolving the actual read. This is genuine detailed thought and it's not the way I have ever seen scum!Norwee operate.

For contrast take Norwee's ISO in this game: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=56&t=90333&user_select%5B%5D=33279
(I wanted to take specific quotes and put them here but it's annoying difficult to accomplish that from a locked thread)

When Norwee is making posts it is more... declarative? Just take a look at his first 40ish posts. He makes points and puts on a false sense of confidence, and above all there's generally a clear purpose. He wants to have clear stances on furtive his early push, on Shirou his scumbuddy, on Pooky. He takes harder stances because he wants them to be clear, he doesn't want to be questioned. There isn't nuance, there's a projected 'look at these neat thoughts I'm having'.

This is one example but it's emblematic of a pattern of behaviour that is alignment-indicative for Norwee.

Also Norwee has made it evident that he has a lack of understanding of the mech side of things. Scum would necessarily need to be understanding that at the moment and Norwee just doesn't. I don't expect this to carry much persuasive weight but I do think it makes him town.

[Klick]

maybe

i think i'm gonna VOTE: dr. drew

~std

Hi Fen I'm curious what you think of these posts

I've just done a meta dive on Doctor Drew. My suspicion was correct, his town and scum games are completely night and day. As town he's very free and confident, significantly more sarcastic, comfortable, and has his filter off. He isn't afraid to upset.
His scum game is watered-down. On the whole he gives much more straightforward content. He projects the reads he wants to be seen by the thread before committing to them, giving a sort of trail to see his progression from. He isn't comfortable, he is much more reserved and tries to be friendlier.

UNVOTE:

This is his town game. If he's scum here it's a massive deviation from his usual pattern of play.

I also think his progression on Theta doesn't happen if they're partners. He's properly pushing Theta. Drew!scum prefers to shade and distance while developing natural-looking discussion between himself and his buddy. Here Drew just... has a suspicion.

Can frogs be scum yet? Please?

VOTE: Flippy and if it's drew I'm not taking the blame for the L

-c

My gut response when reading this is to feel like you have no feelings on whether Drew actually IS town or scum, but you're annoyed that he is now being considered less.

I feel like a viable response you could have made as town here would have been to have a quick skim through Drew's meta yourself and confirm whether what I was saying was true or not.

I feel like the response you've given, while still possible as town, is kind of the response you'd need to give as scum because you want to come back to Drew as an option later.

I'm annoyed because I want to be right but I think you're town and you have concluded that the meta says otherwise. I both want him to be scum and know that nothing is happening without your approval.

I've been pretty town recently, so if this is where you are, maybe you should just kill me.

-c

It's not about *being right* it's about actually being at the correct answer

There is one correct answer for everyone's alignment in this game and ultimately whatever lens you use if you're using it properly should point to that alignment instead of the wrong one

If Drew's scum, then something about how he is playing fits his scum meta instead of his town meta. He isn't somehow perfectly emulating his town game. There should be evidence that he's scum through that lens.

I can't find any. I see the opposite.

I'd be interested in seeing you do the same thing - looking at a few of Drew's games, seeing how he typically plays and the differences between his alignments, and then coming back to this game and seeing which fits his play here better. I feel like if you did, you'd either more comfortably see Drew as town, or you'd see the opposite and we could have a conversation along those lines and come closer to the truth of the situation.

I feel like the more confident I get in my solving, the more dejected you feel. I don't like sapping the fun out of things, but I feel like I'm just trying to do my job in this game same as you're trying to.

[Klick]

Also Norwee has made it evident that he has a lack of understanding of the mech side of things. Scum would necessarily need to be understanding that at the moment and Norwee just doesn't. I don't expect this to carry much persuasive weight but I do think it makes him town.

great according to you i'm town

~STD

Pretty sure Ceph is fully caught up on today's mech current events

[Klick]

In White Flag there was nothing to back up my assertions because I was bullshitting them. I didn't look at TGP's meta (I don't think?), I just insisted things were towny because it was good for optics.

Here I've actually gone through and found actual differences between Drew's town game and Drew's scum game. You can verify them yourself. PLEASE verify them yourself. I want critical engagement on this point because it is actually why I believe Drew cannot be scum in this game.

To dismiss it as 'dubious at best' without actually looking at it is disingenuous.

[Klick]

'Meta is dubious' is dubious

[Klick]

'Meta is dubious' is dubious

"'Meta is dubious' is dubious" is meta

[Klick]

you kind of handwave the meta argument without examples so i'm not sure what you're expecting me to do?

~std

Go and look for the things I'm saying with a quick skim through some of Drew's scum games and town games

If I quote examples you're going to argue with the examples
I believe these things as a result of a holistic reading of Drew's differences as scum and town

[Klick]

im also not saying all meta is bad (although i kinda think it's not great) i'm saying your argument that "look at drew's meta and see for yourself" is kind of dubious

~std

If you actually have a look and then disagree with what I've said then we can discuss it having both informed ourselves

[Klick]

I'm going to hang out some washing and then half-ass some examples of stuff that I read about 18 hours ago

[Klick]

Actually no I don't need to argue with 'I don't really believe in meta' because it's a nonsense point

It's fine if you disagree with me on lack of belief

[Klick]

i mean even like a direction to look is fine like "here's a scum game, he was X, Y, and Z in it" and "here's a town game, he was A, B, and C in it" and i'll look at those games for myself

Here's a town game; look for these things in it:

As town he's very free and confident, significantly more sarcastic, comfortable, and has his filter off. He isn't afraid to upset.

Here's a scum game; look for these things in it:

His scum game is watered-down. On the whole he gives much more straightforward content. He projects the reads he wants to be seen by the thread before committing to them, giving a sort of trail to see his progression from. He isn't comfortable, he is much more reserved and tries to be friendlier.

[Klick]

I think we can ultimately get a vote down whenever we want

I always struggle to decisively call someone scum but I'm very comfortable with my townreads

[Klick]

I would sheep Enchant tbh

[Klick]

If we were pretty sure in flippy being scum or had good reason to eliminate them then I'd advocate for it simply because taking out a scum in this scenario would turn this from a good situation into probably autowin
If we can't meaningfully differentiate between the three on alignment then yeah I think flippy stays alive for checks

[Klick]

I think something that lends credit to both Drew and flippy's claims is that in order to get a guilty check with them they have to die reducing our numbers, and innos aren't super reliable with all the blocking going around

They aren't as strong as they seem without careful coordination, and yeah I can see scum having the ability to mess with them as well

I'm more convinced in my townreads by behaviour than I am by role

[Klick]

Peregrine I know you don't like the current trajectory but I can't tell who you think the scumteam actually is

There is *a truth* to the current game state. What pieces of the puzzle do you truly feel confident in?

[Klick]

It is fun to be a selfish player when it comes to mafia, but!! Being a team one usually wins you a lot more games, even if it means doing things you do not want to for the betterment of others!!!

This is a very true statement

Can you see why I'm concerned you could be secretly a very skilled scum player? You have a lot of the theory down

[Klick]

"All the blocking"? All what blocking?

-c

Wheme's role, Frogs' jailkeep, you
Are there any others?

[Klick]

Peregrine's Ascetic

[Klick]

There are plenty of reasons an action would fail here

[Klick]

If you can't meaningfully differentiate us on alignment then like get good?? It's wild to me that you can generate 5 rock solid diamond tier townread with few to no doubts then you get to us vs. Someone who has not even played the game and throw up your hands and declare it impossible

We've been over why I'm not confident about your alignment several times
I know you want to be obvtown but that's different from actually doing things that you wouldn't do just as effectively as scum

[Klick]

Like what is there to 'get good' about
If it can be discerned that you're obviously town you should be able to *demonstrate* why that is the case

[Klick]

Oh wait that would be self-meta and self-meta is bad

[Klick]

You're not going to tell me what I am and am not considering lol

'Obvious' has a meaning
You are not 'obvious' town
If it's 'obvious' to you that you would only ever be town here, there must be reasons for that and I want to know them

[Klick]

Ceph the first scum ISO of yours I clicked on you were adamantly pushing into the thread that you were obvious town the same way you are doing right now.

PEdit: lol that is what I am currently doing!

[Klick]

I will say that the reason I haven't done one up to this point is mostly because I don't have a lot of confidence that it will produce anything of value because I have a large amount of respect for you as a scum player and not much confidence in my own ability to discern the differences when it comes to strong scum

But I suppose that's no excuse for not trying

[Klick]

I'm going to go wander to the shop and come back to this in like half an hour

[Klick]

If Norwee!town genuinely thought that post made me obvtown, was he just meant to shut up about it to avoid looking bad?

[Klick]

Klick is making very good points in post 3013 and you're dismissing it like a professor taking a look at my exam paper.
You're being the most scummy and hypocritical player i've ever seen in my mafia career and fully deserving of being voted to death for this play regardless of what you actually are.
I won't shed a single tear. You lost all chance at making me trust you in this game anymore. You fucked up.

What? Does anyone else understand what this dude is so mad about?

-c

Yes

You asked for why I thought Norwee was town, I gave you my thoughts in good faith, and in response I got this:

Also Norwee has made it evident that he has a lack of understanding of the mech side of things. Scum would necessarily need to be understanding that at the moment and Norwee just doesn't. I don't expect this to carry much persuasive weight but I do think it makes him town.

great according to you i'm town

~STD

maybe i got the right vibes but the wrong person klick is protecting?

or maybe i'm just assbackwards who knows

VOTE: norwee

~std

When Norwee is making posts it is more... declarative?

StD is just boxed in scum arguing nonsense.
Let’s fortnite emote on their decaying corpse later.

My reads could be awful in this game, but i stand by that this is my towngame to a T.

What i don’t like about StD is that they seem to mainly just complain about townreads on me rather than actually explain why i’m scummy and should be eliminated.

I think i’ve been very townie in this game.

Seriously if anyone looks at my ISO this game and claims i’m scum do they think i’ve levelled up and become a master scum player or something.

Because i’ge been town all game?

I would also keep FB in this game if i was scum, they told me previously that if they were scum and i was town in a game they would want to keep me alive purely for amusement and i'm also wanting to do the same if i'm scum and he's town in a game.

seems pretty declarative

also fluff:

Now i’m scared to lolpost and shitpost.

If we trust the setup info that's in front of us and assume flippy town, these are all town:

Klick
Frogs
NorwegianboyEE
Emperor flippyNips

Leaving:

Kitty Trauma Team
Here There Be Dragons
Enchant
NorwegianboyEE
Peregrine

Am i schrodingers slot.

NorwegianboyEE killed, WhemeStar saved:

{NorwegianboyEE,

Firebringer

, Kitty Trauma Team, Enchant}
{TemporalLich, Peregrine}
{Here There Be Dragons}
{Klick}
{Doctor Drew}
{Frogs, Emperor flippyNips}

WhemeStar directly killed:

{Kitty Trauma Team, Enchant}
{Peregrine, TemporalLich}
{Here There Be Dragons}
{NorwegianboyEE,

Firebringer

}
{Klick}
{Doctor Drew}
{Emperor flippyNips}
{Frogs}

Feel like i should seriously consider Ranger's reads today as an act of apology.

@Frogs Current thoughts on the game?

It's about the response I expected, but it also shows your lack of respect for the thoughts being put forth and I can understand why it would upset Norwee
Especially considering Norwee has a similar site history to me in regards to people not respecting his thoughts

And you're now both basically trolling over the last page

So 'u mad' is about the most disingenuous thing you could be posting at the minute

[Klick]

Also I went and found a town and scum game of Drew's for you to look through to try and understand why I townread him as much as I do, and you both kind of just... ignored it after I found what you wanted

i mean even like a direction to look is fine like "here's a scum game, he was X, Y, and Z in it" and "here's a town game, he was A, B, and C in it" and i'll look at those games for myself

Here's a town game; look for these things in it:

As town he's very free and confident, significantly more sarcastic, comfortable, and has his filter off. He isn't afraid to upset.

Here's a scum game; look for these things in it:

His scum game is watered-down. On the whole he gives much more straightforward content. He projects the reads he wants to be seen by the thread before committing to them, giving a sort of trail to see his progression from. He isn't comfortable, he is much more reserved and tries to be friendlier.

[Klick]

Right let's think for a second.

Total list of fruit claimed
N1: Peregrine (sender unknown) and Dragons (sender unknown)
N2: Frogs (sent by Emperor flippyNips)

Is this all of the fruit we know of?

[Klick]

So two fruit of unknown origin N1, and one fruit of known origin N2.

I don't understand how all of these could be true. Two apparently scum-given actions N1 and neither of them happen on N2.

Occam's Razor gives two most likely explanations:

1. Flippy is scum, gave fruit to Peregrine or Dragons N1 but hasn't claimed it. That just leaves one fruit unaccounted for.
2. Dragons or Peregrine are lying about receiving fruit, again leaving one fruit unaccounted for. (They could both be lying, but I'm going for the simplest explanation)

This just reinforces the reads I'm already at lol

[Klick]

What I'm bothered by is that no one involved in this trio seems that bothered by the fruit shenanigans

[Klick]

Part of me thinks we shouldn't be relying on checks here because that just opens us up to scum roles that we don't know about screwing with it

[Klick]

Here's what I want to do

VOTE: Emperor flippyNips

Malakittens tracks Here There Be Dragons
Here There Be Dragons gives StickyFruit to Enchant

[Klick]

UNVOTE:

Mmm actually Mala on Dragons is redundant

[Klick]

I would like to eliminate flippy today though I'm pretty sure

[Klick]

Actually this should be fine

VOTE: Emperor flippyNips

Malakittens: IF flippy is scum, track Here There Be Dragons; IF flippy is town, no action

Here There Be Dragons: give StickyFruit to Enchant

[Klick]

You can say that as many times as you'd like but unless you give us some better direction you are exactly as culpable as everyone else in the game.

[Klick]

I think a flippy town flip here also gives us enough info that it's probably a decent result

I actually think it's probably a good thing if Mala's action is ambiguous?

[Klick]

Like if she's going to track tracking onto Dragons is the best option
But I think it should be ambiguous whether she is actually doing that or whether she's saving her shot

Thoughts?

[Klick]

I'm not particularly interested in the discussion about anyone's character right now

[Klick]

Here There Be Dragons: give StickyFruit to Enchant[/b]

PFFFFT hahaha funny joke

~std

Change of plan

Malakittens, definitely track Dragons please.

[Klick]

I find this weird from two separate angles

Dragons explicitly said they were

not

following the leash, claims to have done so anyway, AND the kill was on Enchant

On one hand, both the change of heart and the kill happening on Enchant simultaneously is a pretty bad combo. In theory a scumteam without Dragons on it would not have a ton of reason to kill Enchant here. It isn't that sensible that it would be framing Dragons, because Dragons weren't projecting that they were targeting Enchant.

On the other hand, assuming Dragons is scum also assumes that they willingly entered this situation when it should have been otherwise avoidable?

PEdit: how exactly does me directing Mala to track you make me scum

[Klick]

I think some of the defensive stances by klick are more in line with his scum play even if he wants to handwave that argument away

It's in line with my play, period
I approach Mafia primarily through finding people as town and defending them and not through confident pushes on suspected slots

[Klick]

Klick set me up to be tracked by mala

If you're assuming I'm scum who had incentive to have Mala track you

why did I kill Enchant after end of day yesterday

[Klick]

I don't think STD is scum.
I think something has gone wrong.

[Klick]

I think his reaction to this situation is very towny.

[Klick]

I think Dragons' dead-end unvoting me when they thought TL had an inno on me was genuine.
I think as scum they would have talked around that piece of evidence instead of halting at it yesterday and ignoring it today.
I think STD actually just thinks I'm scum here and that's why he's pushing me.

[Klick]

It does also leave me with a very big question mark as to who it would actually be yes.

Someone has given you fruit Nights 1 and 3 (most likely the same scum role). It's not me, it's not Frogs, it's almost certainly not Mala (unless it's some sort of Fruit Vendor Tracker!).

[Klick]

Drew, who did you target last night?

[Klick]

I am doing some chores and then reading this game from the top.

[Klick]

I am now

[Klick]

I don't understand why I am the sole driving force of progress in this game

[Klick]

Other people can also make decisions if they believe in them and want to stand for them

[Klick]

I am really really good at putting them off and dragging them out.

[Klick]

I'm abandoning bunk reasoning and looking for the good stuff, starting from the top

[Klick]

I've been in a surprising number of situations lately where town has decided to start trying one round too late, after feeling that domething was off but not doing anything about it. This is me trying to preempt that.

[Klick]

Peregrine are you an alt? Do you have sizable Mafia experience?

I have mafia experience!!!

You may make your own assumptions about me being an alt or not though!!

That's fine, no worries

Do you prefer town or scum? How confident are you as scum generally?

I think it's telling that from as early as this I've been questioning Peregrine's experience
I think there's been something in my gut telling me for quite a long time now that Peregrine fits 'fairly strong scum player' rather well

[Klick]

Right now I don't want to be sheeped I don't feel confident enough for that
I'm either going to become confident enough for that or just get out the reads that I am confident enough about and sheep Frogs

[Klick]

I trust Frogs and I trust Mala
I literally just need one confident read outside of that for this to be free

[Klick]

I think Norwee was a more likely kill N1 than WhemeStar, and I think Norwee is not likely to be scum by behaviour.

VOTE: Peregrine

If no one else is going to push for something then I guess I'm just going to drop a vote here.

[Klick]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

[Klick]

Second guessing is always a bad idea lmao

[Klick]

VOTE: Norwee

Yeah I don't think there's any chance of Drew!scum here.

Not around, will post properly later. (I won't be around to unvote, so you'll have to unvote if you change your mind Frogs)

[Klick]

I'm pretty strongly leaning it just being Norwee. Frogs is clear by flippyNips, Drew has no reason to no-kill, both are townier by play than Norwee.

[Klick]

Ali's partner showed back up they must be town

[Klick]

Norwee came into last Night pushing a big case on Frogs in the PT with me and got deflated a bit when I reminded him that Frogs was cleared by flippyNips

Btw Drew my full role is Recharged 2-shot Interdimensional Traveler

I used the first shot on you N3, discussed the decision with Alisae
Used the second shot on STD N4

[Klick]

Cakez said I can just vote klick and run with it.

I am really tempted to just do that.
Flippy elim was really bad, claiming to Norwee when they have no reason to claim to Norwee is worse and I expect better from Klick if they're town. There's no town motivate to do that but there is plenty of wolf motive to do that.

The town motivation for the flippyNips elim was that my choices were flippy/Dragons/Peregrine and flippy read as most likely to be scum
If flippy elim was bad then you possibly should not have insisted on sheeping me onto a townread when I was not confident myself

I think being skeptical of the choice of claiming to Norwee is much more reasonable but it would not be the first time I made a poor role-based choice for what seemed like good reasons to me at the time

case study where I make a choice to avoid getting my role checked by the Visionary in order to test someone else's claim (and then forget to submit a Night Action the next Night)

I find it very likely that if I were scum here I would choose to either claim to Norwee significantly earlier than N4, or more likely just roll with a clear STD and go for something like Norwee->Drew or Norwee->Mala

[Klick]

I think there are both self-behaviour and external reasons that I am demonstrably town in this situation that you are aware of that you have to choose to ignore in order to follow the less decisive role evidence you see that indicates Klick!scum

[Klick]

In theory scum had no way of knowing Drew took no action N4
So most optimal kill for scum is Drew, not Mala

There's not a sensible explanation for Klick!scum doing this
The explanations for Frogs!scum doing this are nearly as bad

My explanation for Norwee!scum doing this is literally 'Norwee forgot about Drew being a Hider'

It never came up last Night in the neighbourhood
But he DID demonstrate that he forgot Frogs was cleared by flippyNips, demonstrating that he could have also done this with Drew's role

[Klick]

Step forward challenger

[Klick]

What did you do last night

[Klick]

Let me know if you want anything. I'm low motivation but I would rather like to win.

[Klick]

?????

Good game Drew

[Klick]

The interaction with me delaying the Mafia Doctor into saving Frogs on the night I delayed STD, creating a completely separate unknown explanation for there being no kill, is incredibly frustrating.

[Klick]

Roles are a distraction, treat all games like they're mountainous tbh

[Klick]

Can you leave me alone?

Like seriously, don't join more games with me and leave me the fuck alone.