Mini Normal 2303 [Postgame!!!!]

[Invisibility]

interestion
I think that's like the first time anyone has to say anoything about voting T3
that or I'm blind

people have been saying things

[Invisibility]

but then lately i was thinking that he's fallen off a bit and has felt more passive and reactive. the continued push on cook doesn't really feel that much like he's continuously trying to sort her based on new information, feels like he's kinda already decided

I could definitely pick up the slack wrt to other slots lol but I think in Cook's case there's not a whole lot of new information to sort with. It's kind of part of the reason I am so suspicious of her is that her posts seem like nothing. And I'm not counting 1242 cuz that felt like more of the same but long. We might see some more conclusive conclusions from her when she reads the other half of the game

[Invisibility]

can you explain what you liked about her reread post

[fireisredsir]

there's something to the consistency of thought process i think

even on the reread there's a lot of places of like, "im confused", "i don't know how to read this", "huh i guess i did react badly here", which to me kind of really tracks with how she appears to be approaching the game in real time as well. it reads more like a townie struggling to feel confident in reading people and not really sure how to approach that, which also checks out with not playing in a while

i would expect scum who is getting pushed mostly for not really scumhunting much to fix that and change approaches. i would expect town who is getting pushed for not really scumhunting to *try* to fix it, but maybe just kinda end up in the same place more or less. and i think the post feels more like the latter to me

like its possible she just doesn't know how to fake scumhunting as scum and this is just her trying her best, but idk, part of me buys it

i did as i was writing this have a moment of thinking that maybe she saw people townreading katy partly off him feeling lost and confused in a towny way, and decided to just lean into that, but im not sure if the requisite self-awareness is there for that

[fireisredsir]

i think the short version is, its the fact that she tried but didn't really have that much as a result of it anyway


not trying at all -> probably scummy

trying and suddenly having confident takes and reads -> more nai, but leaning scummy?

trying, but still not getting much out of it -> a little towny

[Invisibility]

oh yeah true I didn't think about it that way
VOTE: Italiano ok sure Cook gets to live to D2 for that I think

[Hu Tao]

I don't get your progression here. Should I not have been voted if you were suspect of me?

You could be scum but I think a Cook lim is a better option, and my vote on her had multiple purposes

black should shut up and stop pushing me, you're going to get reread really closely to make sure that i'm not missing something

This kinda feels like a threat and a little omgus

Also, you wanting to lim Hu Tao doesn't really track with what you said 12 hours ago:

clearly s_s takes the time to read the thread though. so that could also point to tactical lurking?

i dunno. unless consensus says "vote here" i don't want to lim here.

i want to lim a talker

Why does SS get special treatment but not Hu Tao?

Good catches. If cook is scum someone being suspected right now might be scum and they are trying to push a soft narrative to save them

[Hu Tao]

SS/Cook definitely has equity as a scum team. It almost feels like SS went out of his way to engage with Cook early in the game. I mentioned earlier that some of these questions feel like fake solving attempts. Obviously I could be wrong about that but I do get those vibes from these questions. They never really went anywhere and I think scum interactions tend to go that way a lot. In my experience as scum I like to engage with my buddy a little without pushing too hard. There's sort of a fear there that you don't want to cast

too

much shade on them early, unless you're doing a bus or something (which doesn't make sense early D1 imo). So it ends up looking like SS/Cook interactions. Showing an interest in solving on the surface but not much there

These are a few of the posts I don't like:

i don’t like it and think its wheels might have been greased by scum somehow

Do you think you're particularly likely to flail when wagoned, and scum know this? Or why do scum want this wagon to be a thing

i don't like that mason claim, ESPECIALLY now that it fell flat.

This is interesting. So you think the mason claim was scummy even ignoring the fact that Invisibility denied it. Does that mean you think it clearly wasn't serious? Or that you think it was serious but a gigabrain scum play for some reason?

not that it makes him townier to me, but that the play was made to try to regain towncred

I don't understand, do you think there's a world where Italiano doesn't walk back that claim? Or what exactly about the walkback looked like a grab for towncred (I'm not really sure what he'd have to be on to think any of that would give him towncred)

i'm not italiano, i didn't claim mason and get shut down

Neither did he, he made an obvious joke/exaggeration and people took it seriously for some reason.

And then there's this subtle defense of Cook that I pointed out that just seems like the softest attempt to diffuse pressure. Like a pin needle poking the tiniest hole in a balloon

I think a Cook lim is more beneficial than SS, and if she flips red then I think it's safe to look here on D2

You've actually convinced me on voting Cook here. So i would be fine with that. I'm going to finish catching up first

[Hu Tao]

I think Hu Tao is probably town here. Black was a little scummy for our whole effort exchange but after long and intense deliberation I have decided it is "small potatoes" and I'm not gonna place Black in the scumbin. Italiano's claim kinda made me think he might actually be town since he sort of justified it but I kept going back and forth and I decided to just ignore it cuz it's either ballsy town or ballsy scum lolz. Also Cook and Black suspecting him gave me pause but I think Black isn't scummy anymore and Cook's stuff like 579 is weird and kinda noncommittal. Could easily see partnership there. I will have to think about what it means for Cook to be sticking to it and then relenting after she realized she was painting herself into a corner or something cuz I thought I first that indicated nonpartnered scumminess. Either way we should lim Cook I think lolz

Pretty much how I see things right now too

[Hu Tao]

SS can lurk his way to D2 I guess

I think we should go here

VOTE: Cook

i disagree, i'm sure i'll be much more interesting tomorrow

Personally I'm fine taking this at face value even though it is ++scum for her to say it, and we can lim her D2 if we don't like it

I don't think town win rate goes up much from limming scum day 1 anyway

Terrible post. Not even sure if this is sarcasm or how I should interpret this post

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Cook

Maybe they should have been cooked earlier

[iamveryhappy]

bruh not cool
hu tao now officially enters the list of who I really wanna lim but slightly after ausuka italiano and asri

[Asri Teroka]

By decree of this one's vizier you are in the list of those who will either be killed by vigilante or elimination, probably not living past Night Three. This one is little impressed by such estimates though and for now name you as an idle amusement. There is some mystery, yet it is simply not enticing enough to even attempt to unravel. Time is more efficient a tool in some cases.

[iamveryhappy]

By decree of this one's vizier you are in the list of those who will either be killed by vigilante or elimination, probably not living past Night Three. This one is little impressed by such estimates though and for now name you as an idle amusement. There is some mystery, yet it is simply not enticing enough to even attempt to unravel. Time is more efficient a tool in some cases.

bro
did you just soft vig

[Invisibility]

bruh not cool
hu tao now officially enters the list of who I really wanna lim but slightly after ausuka italiano and asri

why

[Invisibility]

I would still vote Cook if the wagon comes to that since the post wasn't that townie lol

[fireisredsir]

bruh not cool
hu tao now officially enters the list of who I really wanna lim but slightly after ausuka italiano and asri

where did your ausuka suspicion come from?

[fireisredsir]

SS/Cook definitely has equity as a scum team. It almost feels like SS went out of his way to engage with Cook early in the game. I mentioned earlier that some of these questions feel like fake solving attempts. Obviously I could be wrong about that but I do get those vibes from these questions. They never really went anywhere and I think scum interactions tend to go that way a lot. In my experience as scum I like to engage with my buddy a little without pushing too hard. There's sort of a fear there that you don't want to cast

too

much shade on them early, unless you're doing a bus or something (which doesn't make sense early D1 imo). So it ends up looking like SS/Cook interactions. Showing an interest in solving on the surface but not much there

These are a few of the posts I don't like:

i don’t like it and think its wheels might have been greased by scum somehow

Do you think you're particularly likely to flail when wagoned, and scum know this? Or why do scum want this wagon to be a thing

i don't like that mason claim, ESPECIALLY now that it fell flat.

This is interesting. So you think the mason claim was scummy even ignoring the fact that Invisibility denied it. Does that mean you think it clearly wasn't serious? Or that you think it was serious but a gigabrain scum play for some reason?

not that it makes him townier to me, but that the play was made to try to regain towncred

I don't understand, do you think there's a world where Italiano doesn't walk back that claim? Or what exactly about the walkback looked like a grab for towncred (I'm not really sure what he'd have to be on to think any of that would give him towncred)

i'm not italiano, i didn't claim mason and get shut down

Neither did he, he made an obvious joke/exaggeration and people took it seriously for some reason.

And then there's this subtle defense of Cook that I pointed out that just seems like the softest attempt to diffuse pressure. Like a pin needle poking the tiniest hole in a balloon

I think a Cook lim is more beneficial than SS, and if she flips red then I think it's safe to look here on D2

You've actually convinced me on voting Cook here. So i would be fine with that. I'm going to finish catching up first

can you explain why this post convinced you?

[sheepsaysmeep]

HPE is being replaced.

[Something_Smart]

what did you/do you have to say about black's read of you?

As was pointed out, you can read my posts in the pages preceding this one.

I get scumreads from people unfamiliar with my playstyle all the time. They usually take the form of "he's making pointless posts/asking questions that don't go anywhere and avoiding making any actual arguments". It tends to come from town although it can be scum who thinks they've got a good target (though picking out a green as an easy target probably takes some guts). My content this game has been a little more tangential and sporadic than usual, I can't immediately intuit whether it makes scum more likely to push me, though I'd think it probably does.

I haven't seen anything that indicates that Black's read is in bad faith or disingenuous; I have issues with some of the individual points, but I don't need to repeat them, you can just read my posts. I think cases are generally +town because you're putting yourself out on the line and opening your reasoning up to being picked apart, I don't think this is an exception.

[Something_Smart]

Something Smart, when you can, can you give a rundown on T3's Black vote and why you think it was made?

Weird request. Especially since it seems like T3 talked very little about Black before the vote, and T3 is basically a black box anyway as far as I'm concerned.

So I don't really feel like speculating what Black said that caused T3 to not like her, I think that would just be stabbing in the dark.

[Something_Smart]

What is your read on Cook?

Don't have one at the moment

[ItalianoVD]

What's up peeps? I'm back and refreshed. This work week was ridiculously draining, but I'll be free for the next couple of days so ready to get back into this. This is my preliminary thoughts. I’ll go into more detail later.

[ItalianoVD]

Re: pg 51 discussion: I think townreading players is way more effective than scumreading them. Or I should say that sorting to townread players is better than sorting to scumread them. Scumreading gets you tunnelled and causes you to lack focus for later in the game when it's neededause now the townie thinks they're something and that the town needs to follow them and that there's no way anybody else's opinion matter. I know this from personal experience unfortunately. There have been so many times I thought I "cracked the code" for some player using meta, or traditional scum tactic hunting just to find out they were town and had a bad day or was bored and maybe just wanted to change up how they play.

Scum don't like people getting townread and want less cohesion in a town. I think the more cohesive we can be the better for us.

[ItalianoVD]

With all that said I think most people agree that Cook is scummy. I don’t remember who specifically said it but I disagree that Cook should NOT be today’s elimination. It will give us more information than limming a lurker slot or the awful policy lim I think scum are trying to push through on Asri.