Mini Normal 2303 [Postgame!!!!]

[fireisredsir]

This one has little time for semantics. Basically, agreeing with generic points or using them as the basis for a townread can be sheeping. Black felt more analytic. Italiano was a headnodder.

If Ausuka is town and Italiano scum it is sheeping of generic points to pocket.

Your assertion is flawed in its dualistic exclusionism. Agreement with generic statements is still agreement, this one never said it is alignment indicative but the fact of the matter is it happened.

Furthermore, just because a statement is generic does not mean that it is valid. The underlying issue here is the cook wagon yet you exclude this fact to focus only on whether it is valid for this one to note patterns that might lead to readforming.


This one is curious why you are saying this at all. While you don't feel scummy this is a sidetrack.

that thought process makes a lot more sense to me, especially saying that italiano felt like generic agreement in order to pocket

i was asking about it bc it didn't make sense to me and i wanted to see if it was a real thought you had with internal consistency or if it was you looking for easy reasons to shade people without critically thinking about them

it now feels more like a real thought to me so ty for clarifying. semantics matter, this is a game of words

[Asri Teroka]

Asri I'm confused about your progression here. In the first quote it seems like you're suggesting I have an informed read on Ausuka. Where does the townread come from?

Don't be confused, you're reading too much into it. This one has you as provisional town because you've felt town.

[Ausuka]

My personal view is that asri's approach to the cook wagon was the towniest of the 'cook wagon is bad' people by a lot

I think voting and pushing me for putting her at e-2 logically follows much better from the feeling of the wagon's growth being scum motivated compared to what Cook and HPE were saying at the time. I think like poking at people on the wagon and agreeing with the offended is probably the approach I'd expect from town with that view, and I get the feeling they genuinely believe the things they say confidently even though I don't understand most of it

I think cook's approach to it was probably the worst - stuff like including the RVS vote alongside me and fire after saying the growth of the wagon was specifically scum motivated, and saying my vote was unexplained when it was like the most explained vote on the wagon, indicates she's like not really hunting organically on the wagon to find the mafia and just going through the motions

As I said I didn't like HPE not commenting on who on the wagon was scum, or even really if it scumreads the wagon or just finds it anti town, but I think it's more likely to be town struggling for motivation compared to Cook's approach

[iamveryhappy]

wat

This one TRIED but it didn't really understand, only vaguely. It seemed like scumread stuff and more on the whole flashwagons thing though. This is probably because it read while 1) tired from staying up late and 2) tired from having just woken up. It will take a more proper reread later.

o okay

[Ausuka]

I think it's very unlikely Italiano's sentiment was meant to pocket me - it's a really common view to think early wagons are anti-town, so I don't think the default assumption should be that there's bad motives there, and anyway Italiano commented on liking wagons before the whole argument really took off

[fireisredsir]

i don't love the "no the real issue is the cook wagon not my response to it!! focus on that!" tho, when actually i think the responses to it are a lot more interesting in terms of reading people than the wagon itself, but eh

it's a little deflect-y but it might just be an attitude thing i remember sort of similar vibes from hollow knight

[fireisredsir]

I think it's very unlikely Italiano's sentiment was meant to pocket me - it's a really common view to think early wagons are anti-town, so I don't think the default assumption should be that there's bad motives there, and anyway Italiano commented on liking wagons before the whole argument really took off

i think its a reasonable thought for asri to have

he's seemed kinda buddying to me at times

[Ausuka]

Fwiw I tentatively agree with fire that hu tao is probably town now because their posts have a "I am in the right here and all of you are fucking stupid" vibe (exaggerating obviously) - having said this I am not giving townpoints for this doing forward so don't do it

I think 263 is +town because I think it's a fine observation and fire is like, kind of the opposite of an easy target here.

[Asri Teroka]

This one has little time for semantics. Basically, agreeing with generic points or using them as the basis for a townread can be sheeping. Black felt more analytic. Italiano was a headnodder.

If Ausuka is town and Italiano scum it is sheeping of generic points to pocket.

Your assertion is flawed in its dualistic exclusionism. Agreement with generic statements is still agreement, this one never said it is alignment indicative but the fact of the matter is it happened.

Furthermore, just because a statement is generic does not mean that it is valid. The underlying issue here is the cook wagon yet you exclude this fact to focus only on whether it is valid for this one to note patterns that might lead to readforming.


This one is curious why you are saying this at all. While you don't feel scummy this is a sidetrack.

that thought process makes a lot more sense to me, especially saying that italiano felt like generic agreement in order to pocket

i was asking about it bc it didn't make sense to me and i wanted to see if it was a real thought you had with internal consistency or if it was you looking for easy reasons to shade people without critically thinking about them

it now feels more like a real thought to me so ty for clarifying. semantics matter, this is a game of words

Thank you, you feel genuine to this one here. While semantics matter here, it is still a game so this one has little desire to argue in circles about words but overall get and got what you're saying.

[Ausuka]

I think it's very unlikely Italiano's sentiment was meant to pocket me - it's a really common view to think early wagons are anti-town, so I don't think the default assumption should be that there's bad motives there, and anyway Italiano commented on liking wagons before the whole argument really took off

i think its a reasonable thought for asri to have

he's seemed kinda buddying to me at times

I mean I think asri is town too, I just don't agree with the read for the reasons I stated and I think italiano is probably town

[Ausuka]

Black do you have a reason for suspecting the cook wagon other than "there is usually scum in a group of five people"

[Asri Teroka]

Italiano has given town vibes but not enough to sway this one. For now what they're saying is sort of blurry and this one honestly feels like not really reading their posts, much less engaging. In honesty this one is tired to try and parse whether bad pushes come from scum or town lol.


Give it a few days.

[iamveryhappy]

pushing invis now
hi
answer my questions here
-what did you learn of the cook wagon?
-do you townread italiano here, and why? I have a suspicion of you two buddying here, what do you say about it?
-whose post do you hate most in this game? (excluding openers so you can't use hu tao's opener as the answer)
-who you suspecting the most? can be more than one, give short reasons/quotes why

[Cook]

ausuka you asked... one question. i missed it. why is that such a big deal to you

[iamveryhappy]

others can also answer my questions, 2b (the buddying question) doesn't apply.
Here are my answers
1. probably a scum wagon given how fast it was crearted and how fast it dissolved
2. nah, the buddying thing
3. italiano asking for townvibes
4. invis+italiano might be a scumpair here, I stated my reasons in page 12. given there are no third party stuff I believe it should be a 3v10, so I am looking for the third scum that had some interactions w/the two

[Ausuka]

ausuka you asked... one question. i missed it. why is that such a big deal to you

It isn't?

[Cook]

ausuka you asked... one question. i missed it. why is that such a big deal to you

It isn't?

then why bring it up twice?

Spoiler: receipts

cook wagon slowly building.
I need to see the people on the wagon's justifications, don't just give "oh idk bc of the vibes" as a reason
rvs is a valid reason

I wanted to give her a chance to answer my questions first but it doesn't seem like she's interested in doing that so shrug. I think 111 and 112 are worded in a way where I'm not sure I'm not misunderstanding anything but my concerns are

1) She says, "man i’m having a real hard time following this game! y’all are posting so much" which is a fairly common sentiment to see in games but I can't say I've ever seen it on page 5. She had made a few posts already and they were pretty evenly spread out throughout the thread, but the posts weren't game related; I don't think she was struggling to keep up with the post volume. I think it's more likely she was struggling to engage in scumhunting/alignment discussion which is something I think comes from scum more often.

2) Struggling to keep up with mafia play is, like, +scum chance but also something that can come from people of either alignment who haven't played in a while. In this case, I think it's more likely than usual to come from mafia cook because she tries to paint it as people being hyperactive and flooding the thread rather than her being disengaged from mafia; I think this shows an interest in like, Not Looking Bad and it doesn't feel like it's organic posting I guess. Similarly, she later implies that she's being voted for inactivity when in reality cook has been like, right in the middle of postcount at pretty much all times.

3) with 112 I still don't really get what it means so I don't want to jump to conclusions here but it felt like piggybacking fire's 'push' on happy (which in hindsight wasn't a real push i guess) which felt sort of bad

so that leaves katykimfanclub, ausuka, and fireisredsir unanswered for their votes. not going to jump to conclusions yet but i think there's a red somewhere in these three, statistically at least.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

What?

I made a pretty long post outlining my justification for thinking Cook is scum and also asked her questions which got ignored

Katykimfanclub's vote was in rvs and putting her as part of this group definitely needs explanation

man i’m having a real hard time following this game! y’all are posting so much it’s almost like hyperposting is a way to townlead

"defensive" is a bit of a weird read of that post

agree and i think that maybe my wagon knows something about me

In what way are you having trouble following it? Also like, can you explain what 112 is getting at because I don't think I understand

i couldn't follow if fire, invisibility, and happy were saying

anything

of substance.

112... what do you want me to say?

[Asri Teroka]

Cook, is fire saying anything of substance at the moment?

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one was thinking the Cook wagon had minimal casing going on and it understands why now. It and Katy were just RVS votes, Invis was a joke vote following my joke push, fireisred's vote was vibes which he only elaborated on close to 100 posts later and after he'd already left the wagon to get on me, and Ausuka actually presented a case. This one supposes with actual hindsight and analysis that it was overreacting considering only 2 of the 5 votes had anything to do with scumreads, but it's still kind of a weird wagon.

If

there's scum on the wagon it's likely Ausuka or red, but it could really just be a silly wacky wagon that just kinda materialized, and it thinks that might be more likely?

[Ausuka]

ausuka you asked... one question. i missed it. why is that such a big deal to you

It isn't?

then why bring it up twice?

Because I can and because I think it was relevant - I don't think not answering the question is scummy in itself, but it supports the argument of other things, like you not really seeming to actually care that much about sorting the wagon. Like it's possible that you missed the question and you missed my explanation and you decided to include a RVS vote in your POE and you actually did see sorting your wagon as a priority, but in combination these things aren't that likely. Also, twice is like, not a very high amount.

man i’m having a real hard time following this game! y’all are posting so much it’s almost like hyperposting is a way to townlead

"defensive" is a bit of a weird read of that post

agree and i think that maybe my wagon knows something about me

In what way are you having trouble following it? Also like, can you explain what 112 is getting at because I don't think I understand

i couldn't follow if fire, invisibility, and happy were saying

anything

of substance.

112... what do you want me to say?

112 wasn't really a push question, I just genuinely do not understand what you're trying to say. like 'maybe my wagon knows something about me' - what do they know? Is this related to a scumread on happy?

[Asri Teroka]

Ausuka

[Asri Teroka]

If Erynis and Cook were to be scum... who would be the partner? Veryhappy?

[iamveryhappy]

how bold of you to suggest I'm scum when I'm cowonftown

[iamveryhappy]

y-you scummy wummy baka

[Asri Teroka]

Suggest?