Mini 707: Cops and Robbers Mafia (Game Over)

[Fuzzyman]

Simpor, who is most scummy in your book, and why?

[crywolf20084]

@crywolf

you mean were passed the random voting phase? :p

..... I refuse to go there corperate.


@Simpor: I too would like to see who you seem scummy, and the why part would be really nice.

@Ether: I don't think I'm gonna post my PBPA on you because, A) It's too long already and i doubt i'm halfway done, and B) out of the context of the rest of the posts, I think I'm starting to understand you. I'll have some thoughts

[Fuzzyman]

Alright. I just did a run through of Simpor's posts. And I gotta say, if he doesn't just blow my mind with his reply to mine and crywolf's question, he can expect a vote from me. I'll be able to deal with corporate tomorrow.

[charter]

Vote Count:

Fuzzyman - 2 (Mizzy, q21)

Simpor - 4 (Ether, Patrick, corporate, crywolf20084)

corporate - 2 (Tisp, Fuzzyman)

Not Voting: (3)

Empking
Simpor
Green Crayons

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!

[Mizzy]

Mizzy, are you complaining about the derailed Corpwagon? You should come vote Simpor with us.

No, I'm not. I wasn't convinced of the wagon then and I am less so now.

If I'm lynched this day it's going to be really interesting to see what the rest of you in the town will think of Ethers posts, since I will turn up as a townie.

In cry's words: "Lookie at meee!! I'm tooooooown!!!!"

Cry:

Why did you call out Ether's townie-talk but not Simpor's? I see you voted him but it surprised me that you were specific at Ether but not Simpor.

I do like the Simpor wagon in a way because he stinks of scum, but like corporate seemed to be, he could be another unhelpful townie. Two votes and a threatened vote worry me...the shit is rolling downhill too fast.

[crywolf20084]

Mizzy, are you complaining about the derailed Corpwagon? You should come vote Simpor with us.

No, I'm not. I wasn't convinced of the wagon then and I am less so now.

If I'm lynched this day it's going to be really interesting to see what the rest of you in the town will think of Ethers posts, since I will turn up as a townie.

In cry's words: "Lookie at meee!! I'm tooooooown!!!!"

Cry:

Why did you call out Ether's townie-talk but not Simpor's? I see you voted him but it surprised me that you were specific at Ether but not Simpor.

I do like the Simpor wagon in a way because he stinks of scum, but like corporate seemed to be, he could be another unhelpful townie. Two votes and a threatened vote worry me...the shit is rolling downhill too fast.

I didn't notice it, but it's not as obvious as Ether's; ie:

Crywolf: you have accepted that I am a pro-town towngoer who glows radiantly with towniness and has only the best interests of the town at heart (y/n). We'll go forward from there.

She said town four times in that statement, where as Simpor's is a claim to towniness that I do not believe.

[Green Crayons]

Mish-mash of my thoughts.

You are no better than me, unless you are one of two roles. Mason, you have someone who is knowning on your side. Or Scum, then you know who you should jump onto.
There are some other things that you maybe a tracker/watcher/cop or some other information gathering role and you know something that I don't at this point of time.

Ether seems to think that this isn't a big deal, but crywolf totally made a jump here that I think is pretty big. The above quote is in reference to Ether's comment: "I'm summarizing my behavior toward you: ... getting annoyed because you had the nerve to insinuate that

I was no better than you

." That emphasis was crywolf's in her response, not in Ether's original post. But it should be noted that this emphasized portion wasn't Ether referencing knowing more about the game. At all. She was talking about being productive and active and otherwise helpful. So from that, crywolf suddenly thinks (as seen in the pulled quote above) that somehow Ether was flaunting a power-role status. Or a lack thereof. The whole thing just seems off since Ether was talking about involvement and crywolf started talking about who has (and has not) power roles. And who better to know if someone has a scum power role or not? It just strikes me as funny (in a weird way), and I don't see how it's not as suspicious (if not more so) as Simpor taking this thread and running with it. I'll also note that she picks up this thread even after Simpor, and on 206 comments upon her thoughts re: Ether's power-role status. Because...?

I don't know if I like your vote on Simpor, Ether. Truthfully, I think Ether's acting very scummy, not power-role-y.

The above comes from November 25th. On November 29th, crywolf does her PBP analysis of Simpor. When questioned by Patrick about her apparent heel-faced turn, her response is: "At first he was neutral because he had so few posts, but now with 10+ posts, and the usual expanse between the posts, I have a feeling with his supposed limited experience that he doesn't know how to play town." It should be noted that between her not-comfortable-with-Ether's-vote-on-Simpor stage (she thought he was only a 4.5 on November 23rd, after all) and her PBP (which notably lacked any hard points against Simpor other than a summary), Simpor only posts four times. So within the time span of four days and with four posts, she is confident to say that because of the "usual expanse between the posts" (which simple math averages one post per day during the time period where she had a change of heart) is extensive, she apparently feels that Simpor is second in line to be scum because of his apparently purposeful lack of activity. It just looks like re-positioning.

Add-on: And your last sentence, especially the words "and pointing out that I myself am not lurking is "too far."" is pretty much waving a neon sign saying: LOOK I'm acting town!!!

I chose to ignore this for a reason. Seriously, I don't like when people go spewing "Lookie at meee!! I'm tooooooown!!!!"

Are you really accusing someone for being too townie? Seriously, I think you infected Mizzy. Get yourself detoxed.


So, yeah. I find crywolf suspicious. Somehow makes a leap that Ether is somehow alluding to the fact that she does/doesn't have a power role and faults her for it. Then she faults Ether again for contributing and wanting others to contribute, classifying it as an attempt to "control the town" ...by asking them to contribute by answering questions. Then faults Ether again for being too much of a townie. It's like she has some underlying motive for attempting to heap suspicion on Ether for no good reason. I'll note at this moment in time that Simpor has also kept Ether high on his suspicion list.

And her heel faced turn re: Simpor is super weak.



Ether: Why should I vote Simpor? I'll delve into why I can't currently buy into a vote for him, and you help me see things your way.

Your original assertion was that he was fishing for power roles... but crywolf pulled power roles out of her ass, laid it on the table for everyone to see/comment upon, and then even picked up the conversation later.

You then (post 207) say you dislike the juxtaposition of "How dare you ask me about Ped" and "I like questions," but those aren't quotes, they're paraphrased sentences and you ignore a part of his post entirely... which completely and totally warps what the post was.

You asked: Simpor, what do you like from Ped?

And why the hell

do you care if Crywolf thinks I have a power role? (My emphasis.)
He responded: I could ask you,

why the hell

do you care what I like about Ped? (My emphasis.)

If you don't see that he was mimicking your tone/word usage, you're being willfully blind. Hardly an "overreaction" (as you framed it in your post 246), at least no more so than your original overreacting in phrasing such a statement. He also responds to your question, further showing that he wasn't saying "How dare you ask me about Ped" but saying "Why do you have to be so abrasive and because I'm reacting to your perceived hostility I'm going to be abrasive right back at you." The straw-man argument re: fear mongering is shaky, simply because it was a general statement that is, generally, true.

What I saw about Simpor was more that he seemed to go to some length to avoid explaining why he asked the question in the first place, instead he seemed to throw it back at Ether, then pointing to crywolf with a, "but she did it as well!" type of defence (which I would disagree with anyway). He has actually answered it now, but not especially convincingly;

seems kind of obvious he was asking her for a reaction. Why would it have been useful to get crywolf's take on whether or not Ether's a powerole

?

This is the only real thing I can get behind in suspecting Simpor.


Ether/Patrick: If Simpor turns up town, who should we have lynched instead? If Simpor turns up scum, who is most likely to be the scum-buddies?

Vote: crywolf

, because a no vote is a wasted vote. And she's most suspicious to me at this point.

[Empking]

Empking, what do you think of Ether's actions?

Who do you think is more scummy, corporate or simpor?

I think Ether's actions are scummy and screams like scum trying to convine people as scum.

I think Simpor is more scummy out of those two. Though if I was a vig, I'd vig corporate.

Unvote

Vote: Ether

[Fuzzyman]

I think Ether's actions are scummy and screams like scum trying to

convine

people as scum.

Do you mean "convince", "convict", or some other word that is not in my vocabulary?

[Empking]

That makes no sense.

I meant.

I think Ether's actions are scummy and screams like scum trying to convince people she's town.

[Mizzy]

Empking, what do you think of Ether's actions?

Who do you think is more scummy, corporate or simpor?

I think Ether's actions are scummy and screams like scum trying to convine people as scum.

I think Simpor is more scummy out of those two. Though if I was a vig, I'd vig corporate.

Unvote

Vote: Ether

A 1-point case? With no solid posting about it? Weak.

[Mizzy]

Oh and,

Unvote

for now. Fuzzy is actually participating at the moment.

[Green Crayons]

And empking takes the cake for supporting this stupid idea that acting like a townie makes someone suspicious because they are acting a townie. He managed to flop onto that horrible logic train wreck in his first post!

I'm still blaming crywolf for infecting this game with that psedu-logic.

[Empking]

When did I say acting like a townie makes someone suspiious?

Quotes please.

[Green Crayons]

That makes no sense.

I meant.

I think Ether's actions are scummy and screams like scum trying to convince people she's town.

Deconstruction time!

I think Ether

Here's the focus of your criticism: Ether.

Ether's actions are scummy

Here's the conclusion: That Ether's actions are scummy. To reach this conclusion, one will need to find a reason to come to this point.

and screams like scum

An addendum to your main conclusion, that not only are her actions scummy, but they are something that scum apparently regularly does.

trying to convince people she's town.

Say what? Are you suggesting that she's being helpful, being productive, being

townish

in order to pull the wool over our eyes - to "convince" us that she's town? (Answer: yes, yes you are.)


Put it all together: By acting in the only way that would convince us someone is town - that is, by acting town - you are saying that she is scum.


Unless if I'm sorely mistaken. By all means, explain to me what non-townie things she is doing to make us think that she is town and thereby fooling us all into thinking she is town when really she is scum doing non-townie but not-suspicious and actually really convincing seeming-like-town (but really aren't pro-town) actions.

[Mizzy]

Green, your past post was chock full of win. That's exactly how I have been thinking but I couldn't really put it into words.

I can understand how excessively screaming "I'm town!"

can

be scummy, but it's all in context. Ether has been under little to no pressure this game, so I don't find her actions or words scummy and don't see how anyone else could. Maybe if she were under some pressure, I might, but she doesn't really need to convince anyone, does she?

[Empking]

You're sorely mistaken.

Crywolf: you have accepted that I am a pro-town towngoer who glows radiantly with towniness and has only the best interests of the town at heart (y/n). We'll go forward from there.
.

For example.

[Green Crayons]

So you didn't catch the tongue-in-cheek aspect of the fact that Ether was apparently attempting to discern whether or not crywolf could actually get off that fence that she's been on the entire game of being incredibly vocal about her suspicions of Ether to the point of pretty much obstructing crywolf's ability to be critical towards anyone else so that, regardless of how crywolf felt, they could then move forward in a hopefully productive manner?


I'm going to guess that you missed that.

Also, how is that selected quote supposed to be convincing anyone that Ether is town? That quote is asking if a specific player thinks she is town or if she is not town. If that's all it takes to convince someone that you're town, then, well. Shit.

Do you think I'm town or not town?


...Did I convince you yet? I'm curious, does this logic extend to other players? Could I ask if you think Patrick is town or not town, and then expect you to be convinced that he must be town?

[Empking]

She's planting the idea that she glows radiently with towniness.

[Green Crayons]

In asking a question if someone thinks if she is town or not town. Gotcha.

[Empking]

FoS: GC

He strawmanned the original argument.

[Mizzy]

You're sorely mistaken.

Crywolf: you have accepted that I am a pro-town towngoer who glows radiantly with towniness and has only the best interests of the town at heart (y/n). We'll go forward from there.
.

For example.

What, is sarcasm suddenly illegal?

She was still under (and is still not under) pressure.

[Mizzy]

FoS: GC

He strawmanned the original argument.

IGMEOY: Empking

for completely ignoring the completely valid logic in lieu for an attack.

Sorry for the double post.

[Empking]

Are you saying that she was being sarcastic? So she isn't really pro-town?

Who said she was under pressure?

Do you think scum only want to look town when under pressure?

[Mizzy]

Are you saying that she was being sarcastic? So she isn't really pro-town?

Who said she was under pressure?

Do you think scum only want to look town when under pressure?

Why don't you ask Ether whether or not she's pro-town? I don't know one way or the other, so asking me is moot.

Have you been reading at all? I said that she might be dropping hints at being a townie but that's only scummy in certain contexts. She had (and has) no pressure on her, so her saying it isn't really scummy. If she were being pressured and were using the townie-talk as a defense then I might consider it scummy, but she wasn't so at best it's a null-point.

And scum aren't the only ones who want to look town whether they are under pressure or not.

"Planting" an idea takes a lot more subtle nudging and a lot less in-your-face obvious sarcasm than Ether put forth. You act as though she was trying to hint gently that she's pro-town instead of what she actually did which was respond to previous attacks on her excess townie-talk by adding more to it, emphasizing that it's a ridiculous thing to attack. But I think the humor flew right over your head.

You still haven't bothered to answer to the post 342. In its entirety. Can you do that please?