Mini 2297 | Conception | Postgame

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s either Hugir/Dan or Furt/Dan.

Hugir is possibly town who fake Green’d there, but if Furt is Red, and Enchant duo live, it proves they’re Red.

[Flavor Leaf]

Multiball and Redirects, gotta love it

[Flavor Leaf]

I wasn’t being sarcastic

[Flavor Leaf]

Ever since Overkill 2, the 27 large theme where I was last one standing as SK, I’ve loved multi ball games here and there.

[Flavor Leaf]

That’s got some bias, of course, but I’ve lost some Multiball and liked the games a lot too, though

[Flavor Leaf]

Let’s do a complete reset.

I got a flyer.

Furt, I’m not gonna insta go after you, but explanation?

[Flavor Leaf]

Hey, sorry that I've kinda stopped playing this.
I did not catched up yet, can I please have a summary of all the claims that happened?

We got Abnegation because we needed to know if the role blocks were true or not. Enchant and ID were on Hugir. Enchant was parity cop ish, where they found out if their target was same alignment as target the night before. IceDrag and Aisa were same alignment, AD got targeted, and wasn’t.

On Day 3, Furt claimed to have Loverized Enchant, Enchant confirmed. Enchant dies here, Furt didn’t die.

Keeper and I are Found Neighbors essentially.

Feysal is a Flyer Vendor.

Hugir is a claimed Redirector.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hugir and I were obv WIFOM claiming Green Scum, and it was clearly akin to a rain dance, as somehow, town has a chance of victory here.

I think we should take the time here, and go over all possibilities before voting, not that I think there’s a quick hammer possibility.

We are playing in a weird scenario that if there are teams of 3, then I’m the only town in this game, and we’re in a hilarious situation.

I am going to proceed like we are in a 2/2 situation, though.

I think we should all say who are towniest read is more than anything.

I think at this moment, oddly enough, I am leaning Feysal for my towniest.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, it's probable Hugir is Green Scum.

AD saying it doesnt necessarily mean they are, though.

Hugir, who did you Redirect?


I think we need to aim for Red Scum today then. If Hugir is suspected Green, we go for Red today, because if we miss, Red essentially has to kill off Green or risk getting killed off.

[Flavor Leaf]

And if we hit Red, then Green is easy tomorrow, just hit Hugir.

[Flavor Leaf]

So Keeper vs Furt is where Red Scum's at almost all the time. Hugir is probs Green.

[Flavor Leaf]

My gut is saying Hugir Town, but it might be one of those times I need to go against it.

However, I’ve been town reading Hugir every day phase off of gut, and maybe that means something.

I think Feysal is probably town. The redirect thing is weird, but it’s weird for Hugir to claim it after I did the flyer claim.

That being said, I realized I shouldn’t have claimed it prior to Hugir right after I claimed it.

Which leaves Furt and Keeper. If that’s the case, Keeper has to be Red Scum, which I can kinda see, but I’ve really been thinking it was AD/Furt.

Agh.

[Flavor Leaf]

Both possible. But def spicy. Idk if I’m ready to agree with either yet, but I think it makes sense if you are town that Furt is Green Scum here.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

It does fit the Keeper goes after Furt, AD defended Furt.

Also, Keeper stewed the Furt scum theory into me could have been straight through AD's doings.

[Flavor Leaf]

im kind of on board with Keeper Red, Furt Green.

[Flavor Leaf]

im kind of on board with Keeper Red, Furt Green.

You're not on board with me being the 1-way Lover/Roleblocker who chose to also kill N1 are you?

I dont think there's anything proving there was a kill every night for both scum teams? Why do you keep acting like AD's word is law?

[Flavor Leaf]

Enchant did claim to have been loverized.

But that seems like a scum role to me, tbh. So beneficial as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Occam's Razor is Hugir/Furt both scum to be honest.

[Flavor Leaf]

Mine, Keepers, and Feysal's role claims come out really smoothly, where Hugir/Furt's had some hiccups and WIFOM all around them.

I think we just kill one of them today.

[Flavor Leaf]

Green scum also had no reason to kill Enchant this night phase since Enchant was only a threat to Red scum.

IceDragon and Enchant both being on Hugir the other day implicates Hugir. It also doesn't make sense for AD to push his own partner as Green Scum, so Hugir is Green Scum or nothing probably.

Leaving Furt or Keeper for Red Scum. Idk, I think I'm leaning Furt here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf is consistently 'leaning' me against all logic, this is surely a scum trajectory

What logic? You and Hugir have the messiest slots.

Keeper+Feysal slots have little to no fog shrouding them. If you flip town, if I were scum, the other scum just shoots me and it's a loss, so I don't really get your point here.

I feel like ever since I've been here, this is the extent of your push on me, and it feels purely defensive in an aggressive way. I don't really think you have any reason to push me as scum that wouldn't be forced or baseline.

Hugir and Keeper also have been saying you're likely scum here, yet with me, it's me consistently 'leaning' you.

I think it's fair to lean everyone right now, and I have been going through everyone this day phase. I went from strongarming, as ActionDan attacked my push on you, to pillow arming, where I was pushing you less and less.

Can you explain why you think me 'consistently leaning' you is a scum trajectory?

Because I feel that my trajectory is pretty standard, and even has been more forgiving than the scum read I had on you.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's baffling that my role doesn't make sense as a scum one, and these people are just chucking everything out the window to decide that I'm a scum roleblocker, when I should be soft clear for not doing the nightkill N1 or I would have died.

Make it make sense

Why would you have died?

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Hugir

But why?

this is not a partnery interaction between keeper/AD imo. Could it be AD defending Hugir?

Ahhh...could AD-Hugir stuff be Red Scum distancing?

[Flavor Leaf]

It's baffling that my role doesn't make sense as a scum one, and these people are just chucking everything out the window to decide that I'm a scum roleblocker, when I should be soft clear for not doing the nightkill N1 or I would have died.

Make it make sense

Why would you have died?

As in scum redirected to scum kill themselves

Oh, I'm nearly fully on board with Hugir as scum at this point, so I'm not taking too much stock into their ability.

[Flavor Leaf]

But I always do this with Hugir, so I'm also torn between believing it or not.

[Flavor Leaf]

Green Scum had no reason to kill Enchant. They were no longer a threat. The double kill possibility? Sure, but I don't buy it because Red NEEDED to kill Enchant, so Green had a pass to go elsewhere.

So it's either switching kills or blocked.

Once I get to work, I'll find some time to do some VCA/Theory Spec.


@Hugir - If you're scum, you're doing well simply because tone wise, I believe you. My issue is I just don't see Keeper or Feysal as scum here ever. They seem genuine, and ActionDan-Keeper interactions looking back is funny.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Furtive - Did Enchant know that it was you they were loverized to when they were told they were loverized? Or did they just get informed they were loverized?

[Flavor Leaf]

I see the case on Keeper. I just can also see them doing all that as town.

Thing is, the Keeper announce is confirmed to be a role doing, and the only non confirmed possible role to be able to do it is Hugir’s Redirect. I would expect scum to get something out of doing it if Green Scum.

But i think it’s fairly close to certain scum have extra factional abilities. Occam’s Razor is that it switches.

I think Rauth’s role directly implies it as well because i don’t think it makes sense to “Check” if your action went through on a kill with the setup.

The Flyer Vendor is actually a really cool role in the setup thanks to roleblock/redirect/anti redirect possibilities.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hugir, why am I not an option for you here?

[Flavor Leaf]

Here’s my thing, why does Enchant die in a Green Scum Roleblocking world?

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay then.

I think Furt fade today, then you Redirect Keeper to Keeper.

If Keeper/Furt are both scum, that just is a win, right?

That also would out you if you were scum. And Feysal or Myself died.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m okay going tomorrow with 4 alive.

If that happens, we just fight it out.

[Flavor Leaf]

Probably ends with a Hugir/Keeper debate.

Both you and Keeper are putting me as town, so I’m pocketed by one of you. I can make a scum case and a town case for both of you.

If Feysal’s scum, honestly, gg.

If people think I’m scum, we can fight it off tomorrow.


If Furt ends up being town, scum still have to try and cross kill, or lose, so that’s funny.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like Hugir Scum always shoots Keeper here, Keeper scum always shoots Hugir.

If a roleblock happens, we’re in 3p Elo.

Furt is the best fade today.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Furt

Still think Furt is Red.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Hugir - You see his slip?

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, it’s not a slip.

It is if he’s implying we’re scum together, but the logic they’re trying to use likely comes from scum.

If it’s 3/3, Hugir/Myself have no reason to pair up on Furt if we’re partners or if we’re against each other. It’s just lose-lose both ways.

[Flavor Leaf]

Furt, you’re going “won’t listen to reason”

What is said reason? That there’s a lot of role interaction? That’s why you’re scummy, to be honest.

Try to explain where you think scum is.

If you’re town, you are already implying you think it’s Hugir and I, but you’re spending all your time trying to convince US that we’re scum. You’re battling this game directly at us, not with us, which is scummy.

It’s completely performative looking.

What are your reads on Feysl and Keeper?

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE: Furt

I’ll give it time, but like…come on

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re also acting like I have been specifically o my going for you, when I’m completely aware that Keeper/Hugir could just be the two remaining scum.

So you’re not even locked.

“Won’t even listen to reason?”

I’m here and listening. What are the reasons? Why are they better than the reasons I could find for everyone else in the game being town?

There is a scum case and a town case for every player in this game. Some of these “reasons” are just not real.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Furtive - Did Enchant know that it was you they were loverized to when they were told they were loverized? Or did they just get informed they were loverized?

I told them, we had a PT. They didn't use it much though, and were pretty miffed about being targeted.

So they didn’t get mod confirmed Loverized? It was strictly because the two of you got put into a Vaccuum?

[Flavor Leaf]

Day 2 FINAL

KawaiiKame

(HAMMERED) - Feysal,

Abnegation

, furtiveglance,

IceDragon, Aisa

, Flavor Leaf
furtiveglance (1) - The Keeper

Not Voting -

Enchant

,

ActionDan

, Hugir,

KawaiiKame

I accidentally made it Green for Town, but yeah.

I keep going back to this. Do I really think zero scum was on Kawaii here? I specifically stated earlier I think there was scum in that first 4. So far that whole wagon is all town. I know I’m town, and out of Feysal/Furt, I always am leaning Furt here.

Leaving perfectly Hugir and Keeper as the unflipped off the wagon.

Hugir Redirect annoyingly keeps them alive today, even if they are scum, but they are stuck because if they don’t Keeper to Keeper, they’re dead every time, so if a kill goes through, Hugir is always scum.

4 alive in an elo is fine, we just play it like the last day every time.

[Flavor Leaf]

Feysal - Flyer Vendor
furtiveglance - 1-shot 1 way Loverizer
The Keeper - Found Paired Neighborizer
Flavor Leaf - Found Paired Neighborizer
Hugir - Redirector


Rautherdir - Green Checker
Hell Froze Over - Blue Ascetic Stump
KawaiiKame - Blue Neighborizer
Aisa - Blue Compulsive Permanent Combined Bodyguard Roleblocker

Abnegation - Blue Changing Miller
IceDragon70 - Blue Redirector-Proof Booster
ActionDan - Red Redirector
Enchant - Blue Delayed Parity Cop

[Flavor Leaf]

You know what, Keeper is insanely likely to be scum here probs.

You wanna know what happened Night 1…Blue targeted Keeper.

You wanna know what happened Day 2 start.

Keeper was confirmed not Green Scum.

If Keeper’s role is they get targeted by the other Affiliation, they get that ability pairs insanely nicely with a Redirector Partner.

Keeper is Dan’s partner then.

My only issue is I really don’t want to deal with a no kill night and choose between Furt and Hugir, because gut says Furt, mech says Hugir.

[Flavor Leaf]

The Living

Feysal - Flyer Vendor
furtiveglance - 1-shot 1 way Loverizer
The Keeper - Found Paired Neighborizer
Flavor Leaf - Found Paired Neighborizer
Hugir - Redirector

Personally, with the Redirections, I think the Flyer Vendor is a fantastic addition to this game on a setup level. It can mess with possible Redirections, and is just Fun With Redirect, essentially. Keeper didn’t claim until way later, which could have been a calculated move in case it was something like a Disloyal Vendor or something.

The more I think about it, the more I kind of like One Way Loverizer too. That’s a role that doesn’t make sense to have more than 1-shot, and I had a limited action myself if I found the player.

It’s also a fantastic way to deal with Abnegation’s Miller role.

ActionDan specifically commented on thinking Blue and Keeper were Masons, which is kind of an interesting level of distancing if Keeper is his partner. I like that play a lot. Keeper had been playing this like a Masonry, and Keeper had been pushing Furt, which could have been ActionDan making the GameFic of ‘Flavor was strongarming Furt all game’. And Dan supported Furt onto me early, so I’m starting to think Keeper more and more.

Hugir Redirector claim is a nice symmetry to Red Scum, and Green Checker and Redirector vs Green Partial IC and Redirector checks out balance wise.

Confirmed Blue

Hell Froze Over - Blue Ascetic Stump
KawaiiKame - Blue Neighborizer
Aisa - Blue Compulsive Permanent Combined Bodyguard Roleblocker
Abnegation - Blue Changing Miller
IceDragon70 - Blue Redirector-Proof Booster
Enchant - Blue Delayed Parity Cop

Scum Confirmed

Rautherdir - Green Checker

ActionDan - Red Redirector

[Flavor Leaf]

Long story short, there are no factional abilities, and likely just alternating Night Kills.

[Flavor Leaf]

Keeper Red
Hugir Green

[Flavor Leaf]

there's nothing that proves factional abilities, though

[Flavor Leaf]

I think the possibility of Redirect is too dangerous because as scum, if we hit town today, you can just win if you know who other scum is, which i feel is becoming obviously Keeper.

[Flavor Leaf]

No. They’ve been gone for a bit.

We are not a Mason Vaccuum

[Flavor Leaf]

Affiliation Vacuum.

So i guess it kinda makes sense they said Mason. But that’s our Notion, not where Invocation is

[Flavor Leaf]

“We now know that Abnegation was a special miller, and without both factions having an investigation, her role would not make much sense.“


Parity cop interacted with it

[Flavor Leaf]

With that said, while I still don’t think I’m wrong, I must ask you this because I simply can’t unsee it.

I think the possibility of Redirect is too dangerous because as scum, if we hit town today, you can just win if you know who other scum is, which i feel is becoming obviously Keeper.

This is the second time where you blindly assumed that scum has to kill, even if it ends up costing them. Why is that?

i don’t like the idea of them No Killing, but if they do that’s fine too because we get the next day.

[Flavor Leaf]

Weird thing right now is Hugir using stuff that requires us to trust their word on seething that happened and acting as it’s fact is something I don’t like.


I’m pretty sold on KeeperScum, and when they get targeted by the other Affiliation, they get their Green IC public shout out.

I’ve been thinking about it, and I think Blue/Keeper were pretty obvious Day 1 crumbing at each other, so why would Keeper have targeted Aisa.


@Feysal - what are your thoughts on Furt?

[Flavor Leaf]

Wait, there’s probably only one kill per night anyways.

There might not be Multitasking scum then.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Hugir’s making a strong case that sounds good and logical, I just dont really believe anything they say. Like I wanna believe them, but paranoia keeps me away.

I kind of think Furt’s being obvTown lately too.

[Flavor Leaf]

Weird thing right now is Hugir using stuff that requires us to trust their word on seething that happened and acting as it’s fact is something I don’t like.

I mean that's why literally I've been spending half of the time explaining why I wouldn't be lying about things I say. That's where "even if I was scum" thing is coming from. To show that I have no reason to lie about things I'm saying because it wouldn't make sense as either alignment for me.

Yeah, but that’s just as much a reason for why you would do it like that as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

What are your thoughts on my Keeper theory?

[Flavor Leaf]

Feysal could have just been targeted by IceDragon the day they died. They were strong town reading them. Was IceDragons ability permanent or night only

[Flavor Leaf]

It feels like you’re trying to make it so there has to be a Roleblocker in this game, and if you’re town, fine, that can be a solution, but I don’t have any reason to be able to take that at face value. I have to trust you completely with it.

That’s the issue. If you’re town, you’re doing the right stuff, but you gotta see why it’s hard to trust that.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wait, there’s probably only one kill per night anyways.

There might not be Multitasking scum then.

Let me tell you why scum must have multitasking.

We know that scum has the following:
1. Some sort of factional ability
2. Their role
3. Factional kill

Unless you're assuming something silly like 3-men scumteam, one member has to perform more than one action to fully utilize their kit via pigeonhole principle.

Idk if there’s proof for #1

[Flavor Leaf]

And alternating kills between scum teams cancels it out too. Using ability on night they don’t have the kill makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

And you’re the only one besides Feysal with an action that seems to be unlimited, so it really doesn’t apply to anyone else herr

[Flavor Leaf]

Furt being a JOAT like makes sense in a possible scumFurt world.

Idk, i kind of like the one way Loverizer in this setup here, and think they’ve answered well today.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, but that’s just as much a reason for why you would do it like that as scum.

:shrug:

It really all boils down to this.
Why intentionally choose a hard and risky path when I can choose much easier path and achieve the same result.
For one of the laziest player in this site, that is simply unthinkable for me.
Like it's actually very frustrating. But I can't blame it on others not knowing me. That's not how the game works at all.
Therefore I gotta keep on trying.

You’re saying it’s hard and risky, but I think it’s helped you so much more.

If that’s the case, why do anything risky as scum? Because the reward is usually too good to pass up.

[Flavor Leaf]

Then it’s Furt and Keeper.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oi. Where’s Hebichan

[Flavor Leaf]

Where do we kill first?

[Flavor Leaf]

furt just really doesn't seem like scum who's on the verge of losing.

[Flavor Leaf]

furt, can you at least see that I'm town at this point yet?

[Flavor Leaf]

Hugir's like the only one pushing some type of agenda, either alignment this game. The rest of us just kinda sitting back and going uhhhhh who the fuck knows.

That's why my gut is still telling me Hugir Scum here

[Flavor Leaf]

but like, furt scum do any of this weird stuff, one liners, kinda doing nothing, no reasoning push?

KeeperScum i can see, but it's not too much different than their town game here tbh. It's just an analyzing everything else.

Ice Dragon, Enchant Day 3 wagon on Hugir being all town makes sense why Green Scum Hugir kills IceD. RedScumKeeper kills Enchant Night 4. GreenScumHugir kills Hell Froze Over Night 1. And RedScum kills Aisa or Abnegation Night 2.

[Flavor Leaf]

It doesn't make sense for me as scum to not just go along with you here because I could have just stuck with Furt/Keeper.

[Flavor Leaf]

“gut says town but mech says scum.”

im a lot past this tbh.

it's not quite flipped, but almost flipped.

[Flavor Leaf]

It looks like you're doing a Tactic Change right now, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

You know what's funny? My first game on this account I caught GIF Scum. Just an interesting tidbit more than any relevance, but it does show that my gut when they are scum is solid. My gut when they are town is not.

Hugir, you said I'm being nothing like Demon Slayer, but I literally flip flopped on you over and over to the point I ended up saying you were most likely scum on the day before I died, so Idk what you're getting at with that.

[Flavor Leaf]

However, your Nexus tinfoil theory, and poisoner obsession over there actually coincides with your play here.

What is my agenda here if I were scum? You said 'Flavor trying to keep me in the lim pool' when you've been in the lim pool. 2 out of the 3 of you, Furt, Keeper are scum, and I feel like I've been pretty open about my thoughts and I feel I've put a lot of analysis on all over the place.

[Flavor Leaf]

if we somehow end up in a situation where there's 1 town, 1 green, 1 red, townie NEVER vote

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Furtive

[Flavor Leaf]

I think I’m giving it to Hugir if they’re scum, but for the most part, they’ve made everything they’ve said make sense to the people within this game in someway.

Because of the factional ability confirmation, I can’t rule out them telling the truth, and they did choose some weird way to go about their role.

If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but I have had Hugir as town the majority of the game, and I know I have a tendency to go back and forth on them incorrectly.

[Flavor Leaf]

My choice of Furt over Keeper is because I’m okay making the choice here today between Hugir and Furt.

I’d rather tomorrow with Keeper than Hugir + Furt.

[Flavor Leaf]

My immediate response into this game was that both Furt and ActionDan were scum.

I’m just going back for it.

Annoying if Hugir is scum, but they worked for it, and not really getting much else anywhere else besides Feysal, which I like their posts and think they’re town on top of Flyer Vendor.

[Flavor Leaf]

My immediate response into this game was that both Furt and ActionDan were scum.

I’m just going back for it.

Annoying if Hugir is scum, but they worked for it, and not really getting much else anywhere else besides Feysal, which I like their posts and think they’re town on top of Flyer Vendor.

Do you still think furt is flipping red here

No, they would be Green here.

[Flavor Leaf]

However, the Loverizer thing is so sketch as Green.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Hugir


Furt not coming after me and going Hugir instead is town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, Furt Keeper lol

[Flavor Leaf]

Watch it be Furt Feysal

[Flavor Leaf]

tracks.

Keeper told me they weren't scum in PT, so i think ill believe them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kill Furt tomorrow after I die.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm town A!

[Flavor Leaf]

Hugir was not worried about Feysal this day phase, he was trying to convince me this day phase all day onto Furt.

It's just Furt.

[Flavor Leaf]

Lol, was I really right with the Action/Furt team early? probably not, but imma full send like i was and feel the repercussions later.

[Flavor Leaf]

yeah, im trying to hide some things of my reads to throw off, but it's both really obvious and really doesnt do shit. while Feysal is like 90% town, theres still the chance of scum, but i am leaning in Keeper/Furt, might even lean Keeper, who knows.

We'll see who makes it out

[Flavor Leaf]

Congrats.

@Abnegation - WE HAD IT WITH FEYSAL.

ActionDan did well at setting up the game and controlling it, though, so big props there.

Glad I died tbh.

[Flavor Leaf]

Don't worry i will blame Flavor Leaf

Eh, still better than giving up because I didn't like a night action that happened :shrug:

[Flavor Leaf]

ActionDan is a legend. Can't praise high enough at how good his scum play was.

Like, I came into this game seeing he was scum, and he worked the game, and got me to not only ease off of that scum read, but move me off of his partner Feysal, and we all faded Abnegation.

All while creating a permanent riff between Furt and Flavor.

Like, I knew it wasn't as strong as the game made it feel it was, but that's the strength of what ActionDan did.

That's just the stuff that was directly tied to me too.

[Flavor Leaf]

im just jabbin' to jab back. If you talked to me in person, it would make more sense tone wise probs, most of my stuff is just playful verbal back and forths.

I rarely ever am actually harshing down on people.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ggwp!

Thanks all and especially GIF for being a good sport and gracious at the end.

Fun game, probably balanced but by nature of the roles very swingy any faction could be sunk quickly by nature of the roles. Imagine the chaos that could happen 2 kills a night and actual cop results flying around

Pedit: wow boonskies you're making me blush

Just speaking the truth. a lot of people don't look at the little things like that.

was the worst feeling to feel confident with scum you, only to let you slip away from me, and get guiltied. Like it was not a happy guilty for me.

I think I became super obv town, though, so that's at least something for me this game

[Flavor Leaf]

I legit asked Keeper in our PT if they were scum, and was gonna help them get Green I think I was a good kill, I probably never would have ended up going Keeper even while saying I think they were scum at times.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m missing a 15p Large Theme if anyone’s interested. Cheesy pirate theme.

2 slots left to fill.

viewtopic.php?t=90817

[Flavor Leaf]

Modding