TM 2023 | Super Mario Bros Mafia | Game Over!

[Radical Rat]

It is a factual reality. I know for 100% certain that I targeted Cerb last night. I know for 100% certain Fate's result is impossible if neither of us were interfered with.

There is no speculation involved in saying that either Fate lied or scum interfered.

[Fate]

Peta if you had bussed Cerb I would've played along and let you live till endgame


You're the one who is pulling the goddamn strings here

DON


CORLE

ONE

[Fate]

Game set Match.

[petapan]

Peta if you had bussed Cerb I would've played along and let you live till endgame


You're the one who is pulling the goddamn strings here

DON


CORLE

ONE

if cerb flips scum i don't care if i die next lol

[Fate]

That won't work on me, I know knwo the cats out the bag you'll just NK me and play your odds with the rest of these derps

[Fate]

You've been defending Cerbs since his claim

and its been unfounded


It was a decent strat, but you had a stacked town against you.

All good all good

[SirCakez]

Votecount 2.5

Cerberus v666 (3) - Fate, Radical Rat, wgeurts
Radical Rat (2) - HighPrincessErinys, Petapan

Not voting (3) - Adorable, Cerberus v666, Jingle

(expired on 2023-05-08 13:31:00) remain until day end

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.

[Adorable]

I'll be sheeping GIF and his mind on Cerb hasn't changed and is still leaning on Cerb being a mafia joat.

I haven't been liking Fate's new posts. If Fate is town then he is a distraction to town and I haven't been impressed by him.

[HighPrincessErinys]

It is a factual reality. I know for 100% certain that I targeted Cerb last night. I know for 100% certain Fate's result is impossible if neither of us were interfered with.

There is no speculation involved in saying that either Fate lied or scum interfered.

It's not factual reality from my point of view when you could also just uh, not be a rolestopper after all? Fate gains nothing from lying about his action going through, but you gain the potential of a Fate mislim, albeit... later. Later, because you seem to keep flip-flopping between "I think Fate is actually town" and posturing "But what if he WAAAAS scum lying?!?", waiting for people to agree with you he's a liar so you can get a wagon going.

[HighPrincessErinys]

If Cerb flips town and your scum interference theory is proven wrong, you just pivot onto Fate because "oh well then he's totally lying!!". None of this pendulum shit feels genuine.

[Radical Rat]

That's a huge misrepresentation.

You accused me of baseless speculation, so I explained that I am not speculating. No, you don't actually know whether my role is what I say it is or not, but I do, so accusing me of just speculating simply isn't true.

And with regards to Fate I have been very consistent. I do not believe Fate is lying. If someone were to actually try to push that Fate is lying scum, I would defend them from it because I do not think Fate is lying at all. And that's why I'm so set on scum having a roleblocker and/or redirector.

What I have said is that Fate lying is still a technical possibility, and I have said that IF Fate is lying the amount of effort they're going through to cover it up seems incompatible with the idea that Fate is lying as Town, and therefore Cerb's stated position that Fate is Town lying is not something I believe to be a genuine thought.

[Radical Rat]

In literally every single post of that "pendulum shit" I affirm that I believe Fate.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Then what exactly do you mean by "cover it up"? Asking the mod if his action went through??

[HighPrincessErinys]

In literally every single post of that "pendulum shit" I affirm that I believe Fate.

You also repeatedly go "but if he WAS lying, then he's totally scum."

[HighPrincessErinys]

Again, Cerb flips town, scream that Fate is a liar, flip Fate.

[Radical Rat]

Then what exactly do you mean by "cover it up"? Asking the mod if his action went through??

That, alongside the questions about how Rolestopper works, where Fate was looking for loopholes to explain his result. And then later when they realize my role is stronger than they thought expressing doubts on it again.

If Fate's just Town deliberately claiming an impossible result to push Cerb with, there's no need for any of that. They wouldn't try to figure out if there's another way their result could happen, because the point from the start was that it couldn't. They wouldn't waver on me if they're actually so confident on Cerb as to completely fabricate evidence.

To me, these are indicative of Fate trying to make sense of a genuine result, and that's why I believe them so strongly. However if you're adamantly against Fate telling the truth, those interactions could theoretically have been made up to make a scum lie look more genuine. Cerb's stated position is that he does not believe I was roleblocked, and thinks Fate is lying about their result, but thinks Fate is doing that as Town.

This is a nonsensical position that I am attempting to demonstrate doesn't make sense. It's not meant to be actually shading Fate.

[Radical Rat]

Again, Cerb flips town, scream that Fate is a liar, flip Fate.

I cannot make any guarantees as to the future, but as of right now I do not anticipate pivoting on Fate even if Cerb isn't the roleblocker we're looking for.

This could change if Fate suddenly starts doing something super scummy, or you track them to a kill, but I'll worry about that if it happens.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Again, Cerb flips town, scream that Fate is a liar, flip Fate.

I cannot make any guarantees as to the future, but as of right now I do not anticipate pivoting on Fate even if Cerb isn't the roleblocker we're looking for.

This could change if Fate suddenly starts doing something super scummy, or you track them to a kill, but I'll worry about that if it happens.

This is blatant "Wellll I dunnoooo maybe I'll pivot?? idk thooo" ass-covering but alright, we'll see.

[Radical Rat]

I don't want to put myself into a situation where if Fate actually does somehow turn out to be scum, making that push just gets me eliminated instead because I said I wouldn't before, so yeah, it's a bit of ass-covering because I cannot see the future.

But I don't expect it to actually become relevant

[Cerberus v666]

My analysis here/attention being paid to all posts may have dropped off partway through. *sigh*

Spoiler: peta's posts of note, mostly

12 Vote RR(RVS)
33 Vote Jingle, naked
41 Jingle vote isn't very serious(page 2)
45 Dunn(teammate) thinks post 19 from Jingle was scummy
70 Would give adorable double vote(reading as (TL)
87 Asks for info on Jingles wgeurts SR
90 Questions jingles P4 reads list
97 Thinks Jingles reads list might be trying to hard/stretching, content in game has been thing, peta has "vibes"
99Unvotes Jingles(naked)
105 Porkens town(might be joking)
112 Trying to avoid team mafia confbias
115 Vote HPE, naked
126 HPE is posting just to post
128 Team SR's Jingle, doesn't see the basis for Jingles read on wgeurts
294 Porkens blase attitude of 103 is town, gut feeling
295 Adorable meta aligns with current play, thinks it is town indicative, and wgeurts' wall post is good so TL
296 LLD(teammate)questions why HPE over Jingle
298 HPE's Fate vote isn't liked, comes across as surface level and easy, wants to get depth in responses
299 Cerb null, but maybe scummy given lack of stances
301 Unvote; if town HPE Cerb is scummy; CSF is town; LLD thinks CSF, Adorable, and wgeurts are town, peta agrees, and she thought HPE was town but disliked fate vote
302 powerup vote adorable
480 HPE vote on fate and the justification is still disliked
481 HPE's omgus on wgeurts is not good
483 questions Jingle's positive read on HPE
485 Fate town due to misreadin the setup
491 Like's wgeurts wall, and their question about why HPE is worried about wagon viability
492 Dislikes Jingle and princess' justification for their reads on one another, but probably not scum/scum
496 Questions RR on being willing to vote him because he has a teammate who has played with Jingle
509 Porkens scum, playing to scum meta, Jingle/princess is someone pocketing the other, and it's probably Jingle, and his team sees 465 as a horrible post
511 Doesn't think wgeurts' wall post makes HPE scum, but hte arguments are good and he thinks wgeurts is town
523 fate has done towny stuff, porkens is scummy, why is HPE assuming wgeurts is malicious scum and not wrong town?
528 wgeurts/HPE looks tvt, jingle is scum using it.
531/533 Asks Adorable who she has reads on and to confirm she thinks HPE is unaligned with everyone
539 Reads wall - Porkens and Jingle scum, everyone else degrees of town, with some reservations on Cerb, Adorable, and HPE(HPE TR influenced by Jingle SR)
541 Votes Jingle
549 Jingle town still means porkens scum, but will reevaluate rest of game
550 Jingle started from HPE town and worked backwards
551 Votes porkens, edge scenario where pushign Jingle is antitown
567 Possible Jingle is town and they are letting scum chilll, Adorable and CSF are shared TR's and peta is okay with RR
572 not sure RR is town, wouldn't towncore over other slots, 132 is a stretch, likes 164 and 196, but RR's pushes haven't been strong other than agreeing with Jingle
574 Likes CSF for 84/88, good question off good obervation, mind meld, 136 to question HPE, 189/212 indicate willingness to look into HPE's detractors as well. trying to figure people out
665 wgeurts case against HPE had good points but was just wrong
666 Porkens is scum because his teammates aren't helping him ><
667 hard game if porkens is scum because no associatives
781 Fate may be scum due to opposition to porkens lim
782 kill porkens
789 Fate's defense of porkens is scummy
804 LLD wants to give cerb a 1 night lease, porkens is obviously scum, and fate v peta is a "spyrex" situation
814 annoyance at 774 shouldn't invalidate peta's prior read on fate
815 lld says fate is just town
871 thought porkens self-hammered and it was a scum claim, and that everyone off the wagon is town, jingle should not be allowed to endgame
887 Jingle's approach to the situation is scummy
942 porkens scum=jingle in PoE
949 Fate is town
1057 Jingle is town because of his approach to the argument they had
1088 fate, csf, cerb, RR, all town
1089 probably jingle town too

I'm reserving judgment here, pending some convo.

Peta, you put fate, csf, myself, RR, and maybe Jingle as town at EOD yesterday. You're voting RR right now. What's happening here? Midday D1, you brought up Porkens seemingly not having support from his team as reason why he's scum. That...seems incredibly contrived, actually, and really a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing from my pov. If I see someone deferring to their team constantly, as too many people in this game seem to be doing in my opinion, that just seems like a scummy attempt to distance themselves from their actions. Why was his team not helping him scummy?

Everyone else: thoughts on peta/jingle argument from EOD1? I skimmed it as it was going on, and just had to reread it, but I'd like to hear what everyone thinks the relationship between peta/jingle is most likely to be given the argument and it's end result. Similarly, thoughts on the argument between peta and fate that happened earlier in the day.

Note: Adorable and peta both have the same thought process with regards to fate possibly being scum due to defending porkens, though they expressed it a bit differently. Must ISO in context to see the origin of that.

In 301 you said if HPE is town I'm scummy - as I'm asking everyone, does the inverse hold true? Since you appear to be TR'ing me, where does that put HPE at? It was a TL around the time you were SR'ing Jingle, partly because of Jingle's defense of the slot. How does that all fit together?

What dragged wgeurts down from what seemed to be a TL to not being worthy of including in that list you made at EOD?

Similarly, Adorable was town early in the day, and stopped being so by EOD. Elaborate?

[Cerberus v666]

Also why the fuck is RR the closest thing to a counterwagon to me? HPE, peta, if this is based on the idea of there being one scum in the three of us, do you really think RR is the more likely scum there than fate is? Like, I get my own reasoning, and I know I said that fates specific behavior with regards to this claim is more likely to come from town!fate than scum!fate, but like - I certainly don't expect that line of reasoning to resonate with, like, anyone else lol.

Also I just realized I had a bunch of questions that I just spewed in an unclear fashion in that last post upon reading it, let me fix it lol.

Peta:

Peta, you put fate, csf, myself, RR, and maybe Jingle as town at EOD yesterday. You're voting RR right now. What's happening here?

Midday D1, you brought up Porkens seemingly not having support from his team as reason why he's scum. That...seems incredibly contrived, actually, and really a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing from my pov. If I see someone deferring to their team constantly, as too many people in this game seem to be doing in my opinion, that just seems like a scummy attempt to distance themselves from their actions. Why was his team not helping him scummy?

In 301 you said if HPE is town I'm scummy - as I'm asking everyone, does the inverse hold true? Since you appear to be TR'ing me, where does that put HPE at? It was a TL around the time you were SR'ing Jingle, partly because of Jingle's defense of the slot. How does that all fit together?

What dragged wgeurts down from what seemed to be a TL to not being worthy of including in that list you made at EOD?

Similarly, Adorable was town early in the day, and stopped being so by EOD. Elaborate?

Everyone else:

thoughts on peta/jingle argument from EOD1? I skimmed it as it was going on, and just had to reread it, but I'd like to hear what everyone thinks the relationship between peta/jingle is most likely to be given the argument and it's end result. Similarly, thoughts on the argument between peta and fate that happened earlier in the day.

Note: Adorable and peta both have the same thought process with regards to fate possibly being scum due to defending porkens, though they expressed it a bit differently. Must ISO in context to see the origin of that.

[Fate]

I get where you're coming from HPE, but have no idea why you seem to pressupposing I'm town given your read on me and history thus far, which is a pretty key piece to this whole "RR lining up mislims" angle you're pushing


Which is putting the cart way in front of the horse

[HighPrincessErinys]

I get where you're coming from HPE, but have no idea why you seem to pressupposing I'm town given your read on me and history thus far, which is a pretty key piece to this whole "RR lining up mislims" angle you're pushing


Which is putting the cart way in front of the horse

This one happens to agree with RR's logic as to why you're most likely town in this scenario is the thing. The difference here being that from my point of view, RR is also simultaneously and subtly posturing to get you mislim'd later.

[Jingle]

Legitimately hadn't realized that it'd been so long since my last post, but I'm definitely digging the conversation recently. These pushes are interesting, to say the least. I feel like a decent chunk of the players are playing as though cerbs is a foregone miselim, which is weird. I'm not interested in jumping ship yet, but I'm definitely willing to let him keep speaking.

[wgeurts]

Okay the thing is though, cerb has yet to point to an alternative which he would as Town. There is so much information in the game right now, to the point its day 2 and we have very strongly felt reads. As scum or town cerb is able to reproduce his ISO dives by applying the same line of thought and methodology. I honestly am not interested in their town reads right now, all I care about is who they think we should be eliminating and why they're the best option as opposed to the others. Their body of work these past few posts although coherent has not impressed me as off yet.