Newbie #706 - Oh Little Town of Damocles (Over!)

[ZazieR]

/confirm

Good to see you again afatchic and Porkens .

[ZazieR]

We have to wait for the last confirmation, Ropis. When he has confirmed, we may start this game.

[ZazieR]

Like afatchic said, we are here to answer any questions about the game.

Vote Porkens

Is your avatar from Urusei Yatsura?

[ZazieR]

I would gladly keep my vote on Porkens as everybody knows that Ranma 1/2 is Rumiko's best creation , but I don't like it when someone is at L-2 from random votes, so

Unvote

.

I also don't understand why DO didn't vote immediatly for Ropis. Wouldn't you vote for the player that appears scummy, than a random vote?

And I'm really bothered by Ropis explanation. Some quotes:

I was a little worried about getting bandwagoned day one for no other reason than that

so when I saw what looked like a bandwagon forming for someone else I jumped on in the hopes of living to day 2.

I didn't start the bandwagon, and I didn't drop the hammer - I figured 3rd vote was a safe place to be.

First, isn't everybody afraid of getting bandwagoned? But did you see anybody else voting to save themself from getting a bandwagon? That's because it's better for town to work on cases. You may defend yourself, but if you turn up townie, we can't work with your thoughts as you didn't post the. What information do we gain then from your posts? It's not every townie for themselves. We should think as a town. We're here to catch scum not to survive till the end. That's the job of the scum.
Second, we don't know anything about Porkens yet. But you're willing to sacrifice him so that you can continue to live. Like I said, that's what the scum wants. The town wants to kill the scum. Every townie shouldn't think as an individual. It's good when a townie survives, but you're willing to kill someone who could be a townie as well. How is that good for town?
Third, does this matter? There are 5 votes needed to lynch someone. If that player turns up town, it's the blame for every player. Even those who didn't vote as they couldn't convince the others to vote a different player. And you're following now for no reason, other than to be safe. Is that good?

Your last post was bad. But I don't think a quicklynch is good so I'm keeping it at a

FoS

right now. I hope others will do the same if they think Ropis is acting scummy.
But I have one question for you Ropis. Why didn't you unvote when some players didn't agree with your vote?

[ZazieR]

I agree with that, but it's too early for anybody to be put at L-1. Especially in a game in which Porkens is present

[ZazieR]

But LM, why did you unvote?

@Porkens
I haven't seen UY yet, but I have read about it. Perhaps I should try it out .

[ZazieR]

You are serious wondering this?
One of the players was put at L-2, and you just put a random vote at another player. You didn't even give a comment about the L-2 vote. And your next post, contained a vote for that player.
You just admitted that you didn't read. You just skimmed over the remaining posts. Perhaps not even that. And that kind of bothers me. That you thought a RVS vote was more important than reading.

[ZazieR]

@epitaph
That's a circular argument. Afatchic and I had something in our NG, in which scum did put someone at L-2. Add that with Ropis reasons for voting, and you have a scummy action.
If I'm correct, you find it strange that I don't vote Ropis, while asking why someone else didn't vote him. That's because it would put Ropis at L-1. DO voted first a random vote, and afterwards Ropis. Then I start wondering why he didn't vote immediatly. Didn't you wonder about this as well?
*Please look at genders*

@BL
It's his opinion. I don't agree with it. And I don't see his comment as a defence. I'm only bothered that he's using the newbie comment here. It shouldn't be used as even a newbie can be scum.

But what are your thoughts about the recent events as you almost didn't give any comments about it.

@epitaph
Are we pointing that he's scum? I don't get this impression from all the posts made about Ropis's vote. Aren't you bothered that he voted someone to be safe? There's no reason to think about yourself if you're a townie as the town comes first.

@DO
Epitaph unvoted me. Why did you think he unvoted Ropis?

@LM
OMGUS? I don't know why you suggested this?
I know two players from this game, afatchic and Porkens. I already knew that one of them would earn my vote. I decided to pick Porkens as I knew that his avatar comes from a serie created by Rumiko Takahashi, while Ranma 1/2 is her best creation .

when

he flips scum, im going to re-quote this post for you, then vote you.

Do you have some special information?

@Epitaph
Any reason why you keep FoSing everybody? It gives me the impression that you want to keep your options open.

I don't support a lynch now. It's way too early. What Ropis did was scummy, but to me it isn't a reason yet to lynch him. I'm bothered that LM is talking about putting him at L-1 already.

[ZazieR]

It actually is. It's easy to later vote someone as you already gave a FoS back in the early posts. If this bandwagon fails, you can easily switch to the next as you already FoSed that player as well.
Scum are most of the time negative about many things as it gives them the opportunity to switch from wagon to wagon without getting suspicious for it. It's true that everyone can be scum, but Epitaph has already FoSed three different players within 3 pages and no vote. That strikes me as off.
I'm also not sure if you have noticed this:

Also, lobstermania has not given a clear opinion on the situation and this bothers me. fos: lobstermania

But this made me read over Burning Love's post again and you're right about the fact that he offered no analysis of his own. Other than that Ropis's post looked scummy and that's been said before. Alright so question to Burning Love: what do you think of Deuxieme Octopus's assessment of your questions?

LM gave no opinion. According to Epitaph, BL didn't as well. Then why does the first one deserves a FoS, while the second doesn't?

As seen in the second quote of Epitaph, he admits that Ropis's vote and explanation for it were scummy. Then why doesn't he deserve a vote?

*please look at genders*

How is this relevant?

It's not relevant. But if I'm correct, Epitaph mentioned me, and addressed me as 'him'. I hope you can understand that that pisses me off as you can see my gender underneath my avatar!


It's a random vote. During the Random Voting Stage (RVS) many players just vote for no reason. It sometimes let the discussion start, like in this game. I just used my past game and his avatar as reason to vote Porkens.
An OMGUS vote can be a vote against someone who has voted you, or who is attacking you. See OMGUS for more information.
And I wasn't concerned. I just said why I voted Porkens to avoid confusion. Besides, every part of a post of mine which include a smiley, is most of the time not serious intended.

[ZazieR]

@Epitaph

Didn't you wonder about this as well?

Are we pointing that he's scum?

Aren't you bothered that he voted someone to be safe?

Any reason why you keep FoSing everybody?

aka Why haven't you voted one of the players you have FoSed?

Before answering these questions, look at post 75 for the whole post in which I asked these questions.

Yes, scummy behavior does bother me but I didn't find that post THAT scummy.

But you apparently did find it scummy. Not much as you said 'not THAT scummy', but you admit that it was scummy. Now I start to wonder what your thoughts actually are about BL's question post.

@Ropis
It wasn't entirely your vote which lead to Porkens to L-2. For me, it was more the reason to do so. Like I said, town comes first, then individuals.
Besides, not every post moves along as fast as this one.

Uhm, yeah what AFC said and DO QFT'ed.

Well, BL, I agree with DO. You asked questions to everyone so that we could learn about their thoughts, but where were your thoughts at that moment. Also, who do you see as scummy right now? I only see you attack DO as he's questioning your intentions about your question post.

I'll wait for Ropis comments before I comment about the possible 'if'-typo. I have seen this before.

and the unvote came because i don't want a newbie jumping the wagon, not knowing whats going on. i was gonna give it a bit more time, so i see no reason to keep a vote on him, and the HOS is the closest thing to a vote that i know of.

Then why no unvote sooner?

My list of suspicions so far:
1. Epitaph
2. Ropis
3. BL

I think it's clear from my posts why this is, but if anyone wants an explanation, just ask me. For now

Vote Epitaph

[ZazieR]

@DO
Regarding post 104. When did you notice this and why no comment about it until now if you saw it earlier? Did you look back when AFC said this? If not, why not?

@BL

So you don't agree with me asking player's questions to fill myself in from what I missed, move the game forward, and get more information from their mind' into posts?

This was aimed at DO. You don't see this as an attack?
So, you saw that I said that you attacked DO. Then why not answer this question in the same post as it was right in front of it?

Also, who do you see as scummy right now?

You may also say why.

Bronco, have you anything to add to the discussion? What are your thoughts regarding Ropis vote on Porkens, BL's question post and the AFC case?

@Epitaph
In post 109 you state that Ropis's action wasn't good enough for a vote and you didn't want him at L-1. This I can understand, but after all those FoSes, how come he didn't get one as you say that his action was scummy?
@DO
I'm not sure if you have seen it, but Epitaph asked for a clarification in post 109. Perhaps you have given it, if not could you please do as I'm interested in it as well and perhaps some other players too.

@Epitaph
An IC tip. Votes give information. By not voting you withhold town from it. I can understand why you don't vote fast, I did the same before as well, but it's better if you do vote.

Next will be a little bit in general. I just arrived at the post in which LM gives his thoughts what Ropis's post could have meant. Please wait with stuff like this. Let first the player give comments about this before giving themselves as it could help the player with his own answer. What I do is to write it down in one of my posts. I just say that I'll give comments about it later. When I look back in my posts, I'll see the note and it reminds me to respond. Most of the time, the player who it was aimed at has already given his response.

I'll need to look at the posts made about AFC some other time.
Also, I saw that DO wanted some other player to weigh in. I'm gonna say it now. That player wouldn't have been me. At the time you made that post, DO, I was busy with my paper round. My timezone is GMT+1. You were probably still asleep or you just waked up at the time I am writing this

[ZazieR]

Regarding posts 158-161
I partly agree with LM. AFC, self-defence is good, but you shouldn't think only about yourself. Show us your suspicions as well (which you later did) as that is helpful as well. (Don't be offended if I sound teachery. That is not my intention)
But like AFC said, shouldn't he? He's the only one who knows his role (not anymore if his claim is right). Do you think there's someone else who would defend him?

About the last part of post 158
What kept you from voting at that time LM?

@LM
What's the point of 163? If AFC and you aren't scum, you only just gave scum some ideas. I don't see the use in this post.

@Porkens and DO
why no unvote? If hes scum, we can perhaps catch him later in a lie. Besides, there's a chance that he's the doc. I rather have a scummy claimed townie lynched than a scummy claimed doc. I really want to know why you guys see something in this gamble.

Post 170 is bad.
Breaking a rule has nothing to do with someone's allignment. How come this tempted you to re-vote AFC?

@Ropis
Claim only if it could help town. I have seen some examples in which players claimed, while it wasn't needed. To one of them, it hasn't ended well.
But AFC was at L-1. If he is the doc, it would have been his task to claim as it prevents a mislynch. I've seen a game where the doc claimed as well when he was almost lynched. He ended up lynched. That night, the scum took out the most pro-town player of that game and the town went after the player who was almost lynched day 1. If this is a bit too complicated explained see NG 665 as this is the game I'm talking about.

To me, if AFC is the doc, he did the right thing.
But like I said, don't claim when it's not needed.

I don't think he AFC has broken any rules although I have no examples what the mod could have meant with that rule. But if AFC has broken it, the mod will surely tell it in one of his posts.
I think that Porkens example in post 178 breaks that rule more than AFC's hints.

At this moment I say, let AFC live through this day. If he's scum, he'll screw up somewhere. Besides, if he's truely the doc and perhaps the only danger to the scum, they have to eliminate him. And if he's the doc and if we have a cop, the scum will have to look at who the cop can be as the cop is more dangerous than the doc (in my opinion).
It actually bothers me that LM wants to lynch him to see if the claim is true.

[ZazieR]

@post 188
If AFC is lying about his role and we have a doc, he should claim. That way we have a kind of a trade. 1 powerrole, against one scum. When scum is lynched, it gives us information. So it's better to counterclaim if AFC is lying.
Why is counterclaiming in your opinion bad?
Also, if I'm correct, I gave a link to a NG in one of my posts. I advice you to check it as the doc was lynched day 1. If AFC is the doc, I say not to lynch him as NG 665 shows why this is better.

@post 189
Again, I advice you to read/skim NG 665. It shows how bad a claimed powerrole lynch can be.
Or you can read point two of DO's post 191. It shows exactly why it's better to lynch someone else. But for a good example, see NG 665.

Bronco, why do you want to know what happens during day 2? (see post 209)

*facepalm* at post 211
If you're planning this (I have no idea why you would), then why say it out loud?

I have learned that lynches are useful for two things.
-It's the only way for us to get rid off scum.
-It also gives us information. When scum is lynched, we can look for connections. If a townie is lynched, we can look at dialogues or votes who looks suspicious.
Without a lynch, it only gives scum a better chance at winning.

Post 215
'I'm also interested in what ZazieR has to say.'
Written at 1.33 am.

I hope you can understand that I'm writing now instead of then .

The same goes for post 219, although this one was written at 1.47 am.
May I not enjoy my good night sleep?
And it should be clear right now that I'm against lynching the claimed doc.

*Facepalm* at post 225
Tell me how a selfvote is helpful to us if you're town.
My advice, write a really angry post in which you insult every attacker (perhaps even every player if needed to) to relax a bit. Delete that one, and then write down a list of players you find suspicious. I think this will help us more than your selfvote.

Porkens, are you talking about yourself in post 240 ?

I'll try to put my list up tomorrow.

[ZazieR]

First of all, as you could see in my last post, I said that I would post my list the day afterwards. But DO hammered before I could post it. Second is that I have given my opinion. At least that's what I think. I showed why I see Epitaph as scummy and that I didn't agree with how Bronco and LM went after AFC.

Like I said I was gonna post my thoughts about the players tomorrow, but DO hammered before I could post it. Before DO hammered I didn't know that LM was already at L-1 as I hadn't seen the VC for a while. Otherwise I would have said that this wagon was going too fast. Besides, as I hadn't looked at the players yet, I didn't know who I saw scummier of Epitaph, Bronco and LM.
Also, I perhaps didn't vote LM, but that doesn't mean that I agreed with his arguments against AFC. The wagon went too fast, but I can't say that LM was the most pro-town player.
And for not posting since the hammer, my timezone is GMT+1. Do you expect me to come online to join the discussion which you have when it's +/- 1.00 AM? I have posted my thoughts every day about what you discussed during the time I was asleep. Yesterday was the first time I didn't as there are lots of games who want some input from me. I can't post every day here.
You're lucky that we're not allowed to talk about ongoing games, Porkens, as I'm wondering about something right now.

I'll give my thoughts about the players tomorrow.