Newbie #706 - Oh Little Town of Damocles (Over!)

[Mr. Flay]

First Vote Count of Day One:

Porkens - 3 (ZazieR, broncofaninmd, Ropis)

broncofaninmd - 1 (Porkens)
Ropis - 1 (afatchic)
Deuxieme Octopus - 1 (lobstermania)
ZazieR - 1 (Epitaph)
lobstermania - 1 (Deuxieme Octopus)

Not Voting - Burning Love

With nine alive, five votes will be needed to lynch.

[Deuxieme Octopus]

Unvote, VOTE: Ropis

He stated that he had no real reason for voting Porkens, and on day one, first page, I'd normally find that totally acceptable. But not when that puts Porkens at L-2.

I'm also aware that I voted for Lobstermania after Ropis's vote, and my sudden change of heart may "appear scummy," but I think it's warranted, since I'm changing from an OMGUS vote, to one that should at least prove useful, if not accurate. (i.e., Ropis doesn't end up being scum, but we learn more through his [sure to be ensuing] defense.

[Ropis]

I'm changing from an OMGUS vote, to one that should at least prove useful, if not accurate. (i.e., Ropis doesn't end up being scum, but we learn more through his [sure to be ensuing] defense.

Well, here goes: I understand that many of you were waiting for this game for 5-6 days due to subbing problems, and I contributed another day and a half wait because I didn't get online on Thanksgiving. I was a little worried about getting bandwagoned day one for no other reason than that (let's be honest - Day One bandwagons are capricious beasts that have started for far less). "A little worried" became "Seriously concerned" when I saw I had collected afatchic's vote early on for precisely that, so when I saw what looked like a bandwagon forming for someone else I jumped on in the hopes of living to day 2. I didn't start the bandwagon, and I didn't drop the hammer - I figured 3rd vote was a safe place to be.

Guess I miscalculated that one!

[Porkens]

when I saw what looked like a bandwagon forming for someone else I jumped on in the hopes of living to day 2. I didn't start the bandwagon, and I didn't drop the hammer - I figured 3rd vote was a safe place to be.

You

came into the day

hoping to shed suspicion? That's scummy.

Personally, I wasn't on the edge of my seat waiting for the day to start (no offense to anyone, I'm just patient), and I'd honestly be a little surprised if other people were holding it against you.

Admitting that you voted for, basically,

whoever

just to 'live to day 2' is very scummy.

Trying to find the 'safe' way to vote is very scummy.

Vote: Ropis

[Porkens]

Sorry, I forgot to unvote;

unvote

Vote: Ropis

[afatchic]

I'm changing from an OMGUS vote, to one that should at least prove useful, if not accurate. (i.e., Ropis doesn't end up being scum, but we learn more through his [sure to be ensuing] defense.

Well, here goes: I understand that many of you were waiting for this game for 5-6 days due to subbing problems, and I contributed another day and a half wait because I didn't get online on Thanksgiving. I was a little worried about getting bandwagoned day one for no other reason than that (let's be honest - Day One bandwagons are capricious beasts that have started for far less). "A little worried" became "Seriously concerned" when I saw I had collected afatchic's vote early on for precisely that, so when I saw what looked like a bandwagon forming for someone else I jumped on in the hopes of living to day 2. I didn't start the bandwagon, and I didn't drop the hammer - I figured 3rd vote was a safe place to be.

Guess I miscalculated that one!

The start of Day 1 is always the random voting stage(RVS), which is when everyone makes up some dumb excuse to vote a person. i thought mine was fun and pointless, so i used it.

Day 1 normally last about ten pages, give or take, so putting someone at L-2 before everyone has even voted yet is extremely scummy. and trying to rush a wagon on someone else because you feel one may get rushed on you for delaying the game is also scummy. Day 1 will have 2 or 3 wagons probably, and depending on reactions and votes will depend on the lynch. so making a third vote in the first page ir really not helping you out much.

[afatchic]

Ropis is at L-2... please no hammers yet.

[ZazieR]

I would gladly keep my vote on Porkens as everybody knows that Ranma 1/2 is Rumiko's best creation , but I don't like it when someone is at L-2 from random votes, so

Unvote

.

I also don't understand why DO didn't vote immediatly for Ropis. Wouldn't you vote for the player that appears scummy, than a random vote?

And I'm really bothered by Ropis explanation. Some quotes:

I was a little worried about getting bandwagoned day one for no other reason than that

so when I saw what looked like a bandwagon forming for someone else I jumped on in the hopes of living to day 2.

I didn't start the bandwagon, and I didn't drop the hammer - I figured 3rd vote was a safe place to be.

First, isn't everybody afraid of getting bandwagoned? But did you see anybody else voting to save themself from getting a bandwagon? That's because it's better for town to work on cases. You may defend yourself, but if you turn up townie, we can't work with your thoughts as you didn't post the. What information do we gain then from your posts? It's not every townie for themselves. We should think as a town. We're here to catch scum not to survive till the end. That's the job of the scum.
Second, we don't know anything about Porkens yet. But you're willing to sacrifice him so that you can continue to live. Like I said, that's what the scum wants. The town wants to kill the scum. Every townie shouldn't think as an individual. It's good when a townie survives, but you're willing to kill someone who could be a townie as well. How is that good for town?
Third, does this matter? There are 5 votes needed to lynch someone. If that player turns up town, it's the blame for every player. Even those who didn't vote as they couldn't convince the others to vote a different player. And you're following now for no reason, other than to be safe. Is that good?

Your last post was bad. But I don't think a quicklynch is good so I'm keeping it at a

FoS

right now. I hope others will do the same if they think Ropis is acting scummy.
But I have one question for you Ropis. Why didn't you unvote when some players didn't agree with your vote?

[lobstermania]

VOTE: Lobstermania

I'm not the one trying to make informed decisions with big meaty claws.

Mmmmm.....meaty claws.
Ok.

Unvote.

But for the record, octopuses creep me out.

(Eight different ways to hold you under water and eat you!!)

[afatchic]

I also don't understand why DO didn't vote immediatly for Ropis. Wouldn't you vote for the player that appears scummy, than a random vote?

I also thought that was really strange, but thought ropus was scummier out of the two, so i went that direction instead.

[ZazieR]

I agree with that, but it's too early for anybody to be put at L-1. Especially in a game in which Porkens is present

[Porkens]

No, it's cool ZazieR, I'm

already

voting for him, so I couldn't hammer

Ranma 1/2 was/is good but UY got me hooked

[ZazieR]

But LM, why did you unvote?

@Porkens
I haven't seen UY yet, but I have read about it. Perhaps I should try it out .

[Ropis]

I have one question for you Ropis. Why didn't you unvote when some players didn't agree with your vote?

I think there's a fine line between acquiescing to the majority opinion of the town and allowing your vote to be manipulated by scum, so I wanted to hear back from more players before doing anything.

Unvote

I think where I'm getting into trouble here is this is the first time I've played with these voting rules. On another site I've played at we used "Whoever has the most votes at XX:XX time" rather than "First to X votes", so I underestimated the effect of a third vote (in my previous games day one votes get tossed around like candy at a parade.)

You

came into the day

hoping to shed suspicion? That's scummy.

I didn't say anything about suspicion, just collecting votes.

Admitting that you voted for, basically,

whoever

just to 'live to day 2' is very scummy.

Trying to find the 'safe' way to vote is very scummy.

Didn't want to be the first to go in my first game on these boards.

What Irony!

[Deuxieme Octopus]

[quote=Deuxieme Octopus] I'm also aware that I voted for Lobstermania after Ropis's vote, and my sudden change of heart may "appear scummy," but I think it's warranted, since I'm changing from an OMGUS vote, to one that should at least prove useful, if not accurate.[/quote]

I'm surprised that two or three people jumped on me for not immediately voting for Ropis, without even referencing my reasoning for doing this.

I was reading through the thread for the first time, saw that Lobstermania had voted for me because of what was basically not much better than a random vote, and skipped right to quick reply to put an OMGUS on him (octopi are quite superior to lobsters) but then after re-reading the thread in a manner less concerned with random voting, and looking for actual suspicious behavior (since almost everyone had voted) I noticed Ropis's little misstep.

I think my vote change was a simple transition from RVS to actual suspicion, and because of my impatience, I ignored posts I should have paid attention to.[/quote]

[Deuxieme Octopus]

EBWOP

I'm also aware that I voted for Lobstermania after Ropis's vote, and my sudden change of heart may "appear scummy," but I think it's warranted, since I'm changing from an OMGUS vote, to one that should at least prove useful, if not accurate.

I'm surprised that two or three people jumped on me for not immediately voting for Ropis, without even referencing my reasoning for doing this.

I was reading through the thread for the first time, saw that Lobstermania had voted for me because of what was basically not much better than a random vote, and skipped right to quick reply to put an OMGUS on him (octopi are quite superior to lobsters) but then after re-reading the thread in a manner less concerned with random voting, and looking for actual suspicious behavior (since almost everyone had voted) I noticed Ropis's little misstep.

I think my vote change was a simple transition from RVS to actual suspicion, and because of my impatience, I ignored posts I should have paid attention to.[/b][/quote]

[ZazieR]

You are serious wondering this?
One of the players was put at L-2, and you just put a random vote at another player. You didn't even give a comment about the L-2 vote. And your next post, contained a vote for that player.
You just admitted that you didn't read. You just skimmed over the remaining posts. Perhaps not even that. And that kind of bothers me. That you thought a RVS vote was more important than reading.

[Deuxieme Octopus]

I'm not saying you should accept my reason for the quick change in votes, I was just saying I was wondering why of all the people who attacked me for said change, did not even reference the fact that I tried to explain it. The posts made it sound as if I totally failed to mention that what I was doing might appear suspect, but I think that although it may put me under the radar, my vote is in better use on Ropis than on Lobstermania, It's worth suffering the new attention on myself for what I feel will be an entirely more productive and revealing vote.

[lobstermania]

But LM, why did you unvote?

I unvoted because of the recent activity regarding Porkens and Ropis. My first vote was only based on a screen name. I figured it would be best to remove my random vote, since it seems we are moving out of random voting.

[Epitaph]

unvote

I don't suspect Ropis here as much as most people do. He's a new player and I think it'd be ridiculous for scum to come out so early in the game and put someone at l-2 and expect a lynch and get away suspicion-free.(even a new player)

I am more suspicious of zazieR for coming to attack Ropis and chide Deuxieme Octopus for not voting that player that appears "scummy" and not to do so himself. I unvoted, however, because I think it's reckless to put a vote on with this relatively little amount of development. But definitely

fos:zazieR

.

Also, lobstermania has not given a clear opinion on the situation and this bothers me.

fos: lobstermania

[afatchic]

I don't suspect Ropis here as much as most people do. He's a new player and I think it'd be ridiculous for scum to come out so early in the game and put someone at l-2 and expect a lynch and get away suspicion-free.(even a new player)

don't out guess someone else, thats called wifom. newb scum do this all the time, not realizing how long these games take. most people come from playing either in real life or in chat, which both take about 30 mins, so they try to push the first wagon that starts. this was how we caught the first scum in my first newbie game, if i remember correctly.

[Epitaph]

I don't suspect Ropis here as much as most people do. He's a new player and I think it'd be ridiculous for scum to come out so early in the game and put someone at l-2 and expect a lynch and get away suspicion-free.(even a new player)

don't out guess someone else, thats called wifom. newb scum do this all the time, not realizing how long these games take. most people come from playing either in real life or in chat, which both take about 30 mins, so they try to push the first wagon that starts. this was how we caught the first scum in my first newbie game, if i remember correctly.

I know what wifom is, but I think it's pretty logical that someone would know that if they are responsible for an early lynch on a townie that they're likely to be lynched themselves the next game. Yeah, maybe ropis came from chat or something but the rules are clearly stated at the beginning of the game and, by confirming, he means that he understands them. So I don't think it's wise to assume he's scum this soon. Nor do I think it's wise to assume he's town. I'm just saying that his bandwagon didn't really alarm me as much as most people.

[Burning Love]

Apologies for my tardiness.

@Ropis: How do you feel about Epitaph at this point?

"A little worried" became "Seriously concerned" when I saw I had collected afatchic's vote early on

@Porkens: Why do you think Ropis went from

"a little worried"

to

"seriously concerned"

because of afatchic's vote?

when I saw what looked like a bandwagon forming for someone else I jumped on in the hopes of living to day 2

This looks particulary scummy to me. It looks to me, like Ropis would rather random-lynch someone, than have even the littlest bit of suspicion casted upon him.
And ask yourself this: If you're scum, what's your primary goal? - To avoid getting lynched. And that was an awful amount of panic for someone with only

one

vote on him. And it seemed to me like he was trying to just get anyone lynched, with no info, to live. And that's

exactly

what scum want.

I didn't start the bandwagon, and I didn't drop the hammer - I figured 3rd vote was a safe place to be.

@afatchic: What do you think of that statement?

after re-reading the thread in a manner less concerned with random voting, and looking for actual suspicious behavior (since almost everyone had voted) I noticed Ropis's little misstep.

@Deuxieme Octopus: Did you expect any actual suspicious behaviour in page 1 within the first 10 posts?

So I don't think it's wise to assume he's scum this soon.

@Epitaph: Who do you think is the most likely scum at this point? Why?

@ZazieR: What do you think about Epitaph's defending of Ropis? Would you rather have him defend Ropis, or Ropis defend himself? Why?

[Deuxieme Octopus]

@Deuxieme Octopus: Did you expect any actual suspicious behaviour in page 1 within the first 10 posts?

Just because it doesn't usually appear doesn't mean it's not worth looking for. You ask a question like this and make it sound like reading the thread with the purpose of isolating scummy behavior isn't the way the game is meant to be played.

I also have a problem with these large posts (like the one just posted by Burning Love) that are filled entirely with questions, and I don't mean rhetorical questions that we should all keep in mind. This is a group of questions where each one is directed towards a specific other player, and for the most part, asks the opinion of that player towards another player. To me, this is just a cheap way to incriminate someone - to bait them, if you will.

Not that I think asking other people questions is inherently "wrong," but to ask a question in a post that has little to no analytical contribution from the author is scummy, in my opinion. The only self-directed segment was just a reaffirming of what three or four other people have already said about the Ropis situation.

I think a lot of the questions Burning Love just asked are loaded questions; I think we cannot ignore the possibility that he has certain desired answers that he might want or expect to hear. That is how I would interpret a post like that.

I guarantee this post will have everyone telling me I'm jumping to conclusions and speculating too much, but these are certainly not CONCLUSIONS. This is how I immediately responded to reading that post, take it or leave it.

[Epitaph]

In response to the question directed to me:

The whole point of that post was to say how it's too early to start making assumptions and pointing people out as scum. We barely even have two pages and it's too early to tell, at least for me. Maybe some of you can telepathically pick out scum (which wouldn't surprise me if some people claimed that). I think to cast any polarizing suspicion (i.e this person is definitely scum! kill!) this early when we really only have one major development will have no use. It's way too soon.

Basically this is just a big way of saying I don't know.