TM 2023 | Super Mario Bros Mafia | Game Over!

[Adorable]

Cerb is softing that he has a conditional result, thus would like time to figure out what it means. A role that should get a result but didn't would make sense in that context.

Yep.

My investigative is a vanilla cop, and it returned that Adorable *wasn't* vanilla, which meant it didn't clear her for probtown(since it's unlikely a goon exists here with the starting numbers.)

Since Adorable went ahead and claimed, however, if she's telling the truth there's no longer any value in concealing the result.

Why did you use the vanilla cop on me when I softed pr on page 11?

[Radical Rat]

Your flavor is generic AND a vanilla role, which are usually interchangeable. It makes absolutely no sense to be suspicious if someone matches your vanilla claim unless it's an actual unique character, which neither Toad nor Goomba are.

It also makes no sense to assume scum would be informed about all of the possible flavors that exist, and the thing with Townies cross confirming each other only actually works once, and even then it's contingent on what the distribution actually is.

Maybe if the claim happened D2 instead of D1 an argument could be made for a role and/or flavor cop... but with all of the information we had, Porkens claim should have AT LEAST given you pause, if not 100% cleared him.

no, because the idea that VTs could confirm each other by their flavor

would be horrifically bad game design

i'm done talking to you, you clearly have no clue what you're talking about

If indeed you are Town, then that "horrifically bad game design" is the world we're living in, so take it up with the mod instead of just immediately resorting to insulting me.

In the more likely world where you're scum though... we don't actually have any evidence suggesting that kind of confirmation is possible yet, so this argument just doesn't matter.

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb is softing that he has a conditional result, thus would like time to figure out what it means. A role that should get a result but didn't would make sense in that context.

Yep.

My investigative is a vanilla cop, and it returned that Adorable *wasn't* vanilla, which meant it didn't clear her for probtown(since it's unlikely a goon exists here with the starting numbers.)

Since Adorable went ahead and claimed, however, if she's telling the truth there's no longer any value in concealing the result.

Why did you use the vanilla cop on me when I softed pr on page 11?

Because I didn't think you could be so incompetent as to make that soft as town, especially with people like GiF advising you, and figured the only way you were town was if you were a VT making a gambit to draw the NK. Since you looked to be a likely lim for today, I figured I could hedge my bets and if you were vanilla that would prevent the mislim, and if you weren't we'd likely have scum - but I did want some wagon data to happen before I made that stance of mine clear.

[Adorable]

@SirCakez Can the tanuki suit power up be used with regular action?

[Radical Rat]

@SirCakez Can the tanuki suit power up be used with regular action?

I already asked via PM and it can.

[Radical Rat]

Not having that knowledge at daystart is why I didn't immediately jump on the powerup like I did later

[Radical Rat]

Your flavor is generic AND a vanilla role, which are usually interchangeable. It makes absolutely no sense to be suspicious if someone matches your vanilla claim unless it's an actual unique character, which neither Toad nor Goomba are.

It also makes no sense to assume scum would be informed about all of the possible flavors that exist, and the thing with Townies cross confirming each other only actually works once, and even then it's contingent on what the distribution actually is.

Maybe if the claim happened D2 instead of D1 an argument could be made for a role and/or flavor cop... but with all of the information we had, Porkens claim should have AT LEAST given you pause, if not 100% cleared him.

no, because the idea that VTs could confirm each other by their flavor

would be horrifically bad game design

i'm done talking to you, you clearly have no clue what you're talking about

If indeed you are Town, then that "horrifically bad game design" is the world we're living in, so take it up with the mod instead of just immediately resorting to insulting me.

In the more likely world where you're scum though... we don't actually have any evidence suggesting that kind of confirmation is possible yet, so this argument just doesn't matter.

As an amendment, I did forget Jingle's also claimed Toad, so unless you're both scum together (unlikely imo), we are indeed in a world where what you're calling horrifically bad game design is just a fact. Reconcile that however you must.

[Fate]

Hmm setup is nearing breakable

RR conftown, or at least half

Decent enough power up

[Fate]

Oretty sure I know the flavor of the scumteam atm

[petapan]

Your flavor is generic AND a vanilla role, which are usually interchangeable. It makes absolutely no sense to be suspicious if someone matches your vanilla claim unless it's an actual unique character, which neither Toad nor Goomba are.

It also makes no sense to assume scum would be informed about all of the possible flavors that exist, and the thing with Townies cross confirming each other only actually works once, and even then it's contingent on what the distribution actually is.

Maybe if the claim happened D2 instead of D1 an argument could be made for a role and/or flavor cop... but with all of the information we had, Porkens claim should have AT LEAST given you pause, if not 100% cleared him.

no, because the idea that VTs could confirm each other by their flavor

would be horrifically bad game design

i'm done talking to you, you clearly have no clue what you're talking about

If indeed you are Town, then that "horrifically bad game design" is the world we're living in, so take it up with the mod instead of just immediately resorting to insulting me.

In the more likely world where you're scum though... we don't actually have any evidence suggesting that kind of confirmation is possible yet, so this argument just doesn't matter.

As an amendment, I did forget Jingle's also claimed Toad, so unless you're both scum together (unlikely imo), we are indeed in a world where what you're calling horrifically bad game design is just a fact. Reconcile that however you must.

i'm not treating the claims as self-confirming

i said the mod pulled a prank by having VTs have the same flavor. my default assumption is one character, one role. i tried to outguess the mod and lost, egg is on my face

[petapan]

here's a followup question: if all the VTs in the game have the same flavor (which seems likely?), do you think the mod would make the scumteam unaware of this fact?

[Radical Rat]

here's a followup question: if all the VTs in the game have the same flavor (which seems likely?), do you think the mod would make the scumteam unaware of this fact?

In this particular game, yes.

I do not believe the mod would make the scumteam EXCLUSIVELY aware of this fact. In most games, if there's a generic VT flavor, that's public knowledge. I have never seen a game where ONLY the scumteam knows what the VT flavor is, and especially in this case where the VT flavor contradicts the public example, it would be kinda shitty to inform scum of this, but Town has to either mislim someone or have multiple VTs out themselves to figure it out.

[Radical Rat]

I am somewhat cooling down on you though, because I can see where you're coming from in thinking it was unique given that contradiction.

I am still NOT happy about that, because I know at the very least I'd have moved if you or Jingle had said something in time, but it isn't the hard scumclaim I initially saw it as.

[HighPrincessErinys]

but Town has to either mislim someone or have multiple VTs out themselves to figure it out.

Considering Porkens flipped Toad and now peta and (presumably) Jingle have claimed Toad... It seems that every VT actually literally is a Toad.

[Radical Rat]

but Town has to either mislim someone or have multiple VTs out themselves to figure it out.

Considering Porkens flipped Toad and now peta and (presumably) Jingle have claimed Toad... It seems that every VT actually literally is a Toad.

That is how things are looking, yes.

[Jingle]

but Town has to either mislim someone or have multiple VTs out themselves to figure it out.

Considering Porkens flipped Toad and now peta and (presumably) Jingle have claimed Toad... It seems that every VT actually literally is a Toad.

Yes, I claimed Todd.

HPE why haven’t you claimed?

[HighPrincessErinys]

but Town has to either mislim someone or have multiple VTs out themselves to figure it out.

Considering Porkens flipped Toad and now peta and (presumably) Jingle have claimed Toad... It seems that every VT actually literally is a Toad.

Yes, I claimed Todd.

HPE why haven’t you claimed?

Was busy with something the past couple hours and also a D2 massclaim like that just kinda fried my brain. But yeah, no point in not at this point.

This one is Princess Daisy the ex-Universal Backup, now Even Night Tracker. It's why this one wants the suit, so it can track in peace tonight.

[petapan]

here's a followup question: if all the VTs in the game have the same flavor (which seems likely?), do you think the mod would make the scumteam unaware of this fact?

In this particular game, yes.

I do not believe the mod would make the scumteam EXCLUSIVELY aware of this fact. In most games, if there's a generic VT flavor, that's public knowledge. I have never seen a game where ONLY the scumteam knows what the VT flavor is, and especially in this case where the VT flavor contradicts the public example, it would be kinda shitty to inform scum of this, but Town has to either mislim someone or have multiple VTs out themselves to figure it out.

well i'm going to stand up for the mod here and say you read too much into the example flavor. i don't think it's criminally unfair to create a bit of chaos. a bit mean but it punishes making incorrect assumptions

i made a flawed assumption but that's how mafia goes sometimes, i can live with that fact


the fact is when i saw the claim from porkens, there were logically two possibilities:

A. he's scum who didn't have a safe claim and tried to claim the flavor i have and exists as a virtual counter claim to me

B. the claim is a universal generic one, and therefore NAI because scum would likely know this

u think concluding he

had

to be town from the claim would be a reach. just because i don't think like you doesn't make me scum, to believe that is narcissism.

at that moment in time, it seemed like the best possible play was to vote him out and stop discussion of the claim to avoid people needlessly giving away hints about their role

[Jingle]

Missing claims are wgeurtz and fate

[Adorable]

GIF has been doing mech solving. I'll have to paraphrase those later since I am busy with chores.

[Adorable]

If we test out my loved passive I will be the 5th vote so that I can unvote afterwards.

[Jingle]

Yes, that should go without saying.

[Jingle]

GIF has been doing mech solving. I'll have to paraphrase those later since I am busy with chores.

I’d prefer you wait for wgeurts and fate, tbh

[petapan]

GIF has been doing mech solving. I'll have to paraphrase those later since I am busy with chores.

I’d prefer you wait for wgeurts and fate, tbh

this

explicitly please do not comment on the claims until everyone has spoken up, doing so now is anti-town

[Jingle]

Oretty sure I know the flavor of the scumteam atm

VOTE: Cerb666

Quote for ping: claim now.